Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

That's not the point. Like the Prodigal Son - I can leave my dad and reject him. He may still be my dad but I don't have to accept anything that he leaves to me.

God gives us a gift - but He doesn't force us to keep it.

Receiving the Gift of Salvation is conditional that the Confession come from your HEART.
This has been explained to you.

Now afterward, YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR MIND and reject His gift?

YOUR MIND is NOT how one accepted the Gift....IT IS WITH THE THOUGHT OF THE HEART!!!!!

Don't you know the Difference?

And HOW CAN YOU AFTER RECEIVING the Gift of Salvation .... CHANGE the thought of your HEART? YOU CAN'T....

Didn't you learn, immediately after CONFESSING BELIEF....in your HEART...

Your OLD HEART IS CUT OFF...CIRCUMCISED!
A NEW HEART IS GIVEN YOU...

It is part of the CONVERSION.

How can YOUR OLD HEART reject Christ?
YOU OLD HEART "NO LONGER EXISTS"!!!!!!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Wrong.

We are saved BY the sacrifice of Christ - but we are saved THROUGH His Church - His very Body. (Matt. 18:15-18, Acts 9:4-5, 1 Tim. 3:15, Heb. 1:22-23).

That is the wrong body. We are saved by His body as testified below.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;.........27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The RCC obviously moved believers in the RCC away from the hope of the gospel of our faith in Him to present us faultless to being enslaved to the RCC and the works of the sacraments within for that salvation. That, brother, is the RCC preaching another gospel.

That below, brother, is you saying that the RCC is the Saviour; not Jesus Christ.

We are saved BY the sacrifice of Christ - but we are saved THROUGH His Church - His very Body.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Seriously dude?
How many YEARS did you hear and LEARN ABOUT CHRIST?...and Hopefully STILL Learning?...and you think men being taught, hearing a FEW sermons, hearing read a FEW letters were in FULL experiential knowledge?

???

A mans secure position is IN the Word of God.
Hear it a few times, and then stop....you do lose your SECURE POSITION TO RECEIVE Salvation and a Quickened Spirit.

It was not secret the early learners of Christ, needed to repeatedly and bit by bit learn more about Christ ... just like people today.

This information was FOREIGN to them...
For 4,000 years they had been taught like you teach today, like men called Jews who do not believe in Jesus is the Christ, teach today...

Obey the laws, keep "cooperating" and if you do well (endure) until the end of your natural life you will be saved.

Protestants teach...give your life to Christ...
BE COME DEAD NOW; Crucified with Christ, and accept HIS Blood forgiveness, and accept to LIVE IN HIS BODY, and Be Kept Forever Freed from Sin BY HIS Indwelling Power.

Jews can NOT accept KILLING THEIR BODY OF SIN.....because they (not all) do not Accept Jesus IS the Christ.

You MIX it up, NOT according to Scripture.
YOU WAIT for your body to DIE...SO YOU CAN OBTAIN SALVATION.
While CLAIMING your body is already DEAD..
Which IS THE DEATH, that ALLOWS one to RECEIVE Salvation AND a born again spirit.

Your teaching is neither Scriptural, nor makes common sense...

WRONG.

No matter HOW many times you repeat your false teaching - the Bible assures us that we can turn our backs on God and walk away from Him - LOSING our security.

I have shown repeatedly where Scripture warns us of this and YOU keep denying it. All I can say is good luck to you when you are being judged . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is the wrong body. We are saved by His body as testified below.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;.........27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The RCC obviously moved believers in the RCC away from the hope of the gospel of our faith in Him to present us faultless to being enslaved to the RCC and the works of the sacraments within for that salvation. That, brother, is the RCC preaching another gospel.

That below, brother, is you saying that the RCC is the Saviour; not Jesus Christ.

And THIS is that YOU fail to understand:

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Christ's Church IS His Body. Non in a "partial" or "separate" way - but the FULLNESS of Him. That's what Scripture tells us . . .

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

And THIS is that YOU fail to understand:

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Christ's Church IS His Body. Non in a "partial" or "separate" way - but the FULLNESS of Him. That's what Scripture tells us . . .

You applying that to mean the RCC is wrong. Explain the 7 churches in Revelation and why the church at Rome is not mentioned at all.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Receiving the Gift of Salvation is conditional that the Confession come from your HEART.
This has been explained to you.

Now afterward, YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR MIND and reject His gift?

YOUR MIND is NOT how one accepted the Gift....IT IS WITH THE THOUGHT OF THE HEART!!!!!

Don't you know the Difference?

And HOW CAN YOU AFTER RECEIVING the Gift of Salvation .... CHANGE the thought of your HEART? YOU CAN'T....

Didn't you learn, immediately after CONFESSING BELIEF....in your HEART...

Your OLD HEART IS CUT OFF...CIRCUMCISED!
A NEW HEART IS GIVEN YOU...

It is part of the CONVERSION.

How can YOUR OLD HEART reject Christ?
YOU OLD HEART "NO LONGER EXISTS"!!!!!!

Are you saying that a person cannot have a change of heart??
That is a ridiculous [rpp[[osition.

People fall in love and get married. they raise kids together - yet after time, they fall OUT of love with each other and get divorced.

Did they NOT make their initial vows with their hearts??
Did they NOT make them out of love for one another??

YES to both questions. They simply LOST their love for each other.

It is the SAME for some people who lose their love for God. God didn't lose His love for them - THEY lost it for HIM . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You applying that to mean the RCC is wrong. Explain the 7 churches in Revelation and why the church at Rome is not mentioned at all.

The 7 Churches in Revelation are ALL the same Church. They are simply the Church in different locations. They ALL taught the same Gospel message - but some of them strayed.

It doesn't mention the Church in Corinth or Thessalonica or Colossae or Antioch.
WHY is that??

 

[Yomi]

The Lord Jesus absolved us of all sins. What sins did He absolve? What kinds of sin do we confess to after we begin believing in the Lord? The main sins referred to are those factual sins that betray God’s laws, commandments, or words. We humans betrayed God’s laws and commandments and were thus condemned and punished by His law. That’s why the Lord Jesus came to do His work of redemption. Thus, we need only pray to the Lord Jesus and confess and repent our sins and He shall absolve us. After that, we will no longer be subject to condemnation and punishment according to His law. God will no longer treat us as sinners. So we can pray directly to God; we can cry out to God and share in His abundant grace and truth. This is the true meaning of the “salvation” that we often spoke of in the Age of Grace. This salvation has nothing to do with being cleansed and entering the heavenly kingdom. You could say that those are two separate things, because the Lord Jesus never said that all who have been saved and absolved can enter the heavenly kingdom. Let’s read some of Almighty God’s words, “At the time Jesus’ work was the redemption of all mankind. The sins of all who believed in Him were forgiven; as long as you believed in Him, He would redeem you; if you believed in Him, you were no longer a sinner, you were relieved of your sins. This is what it meant to be saved, and to be justified by faith. Yet in those who believed, there remained that which was rebellious and opposed God, and which still had to be slowly removed. Salvation did not mean man had been completely gained by Jesus, but that man was no longer of sin, that he had been forgiven his sins: Provided you believed, you would never more be of sin” (“The Vision of God’s Work (2)” in The Word Appears in the Flesh). “Before man was redeemed, many of Satan’s poisons were already planted within him. After thousands of years of Satan’s corruption, man already has within him a nature that resists God. Therefore, when man has been redeemed, it is nothing more than redemption, where man is bought at a high price, but the poisonous nature within has not been eliminated. Man that is so defiled must undergo a change before being worthy to serve God. Through this work of judgment and chastisement, man will fully come to know the filthy and corrupt substance within him, and he will be able to completely change and become clean. Only in this way can man be worthy to return before the throne of God. … Though man has been redeemed and forgiven of his sins, it is only considered as God not remembering the transgressions of man and not treating man in accordance with man’s transgressions. However, when man lives in the flesh and he has not been set free from sin, he can only continue to sin, endlessly revealing the corrupt satanic disposition. This is the life that man leads, an endless cycle of sin and forgiveness. The majority of men sin in the day only to confess in the evening. As such, even if the sin offering is forever effective for man, it would not be able to save man from sin. Only half the work of salvation has been completed, for man still has corrupt disposition” (“The Mystery of the Incarnation (4)” in The Word Appears in the Flesh). Almighty God’s words answer this question very clearly. As soon as we hear them, we understand them. In the Age of Grace, the Lord Jesus only did His work of redemption to absolve mankind of sin, making them righteous through faith and saved through faith. However, the Lord Jesus never said that everyone who has been forgiven of his or her sins can enter the heavenly kingdom. This is because the Lord Jesus may have absolved us of all sin, but He never absolved us of our satanic nature. Our inner arrogance, selfishness, deceit, evil etc., that is, our corrupt dispositions, still remain. These things are deeper than sin. They are much harder to resolve. If the satanic nature and corrupt dispositions, which are so resistant to God, have not been resolved, we cannot help but commit many sins. We may even commit sins that are even worse than breaking the law, that is, the more egregious sins. Why were the Pharisees able to condemn and resist the Lord Jesus? How could they crucify Him on the cross? This proves that if our satanic nature has not been resolved we can still sin, resist God, and betray God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Almighty God’s words

hmm. quite an introductory post there
ntmy

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

The 7 Churches in Revelation are ALL the same Church. They are simply the Church in different locations. They ALL taught the same Gospel message - but some of them strayed.

It doesn't mention the Church in Corinth or Thessalonica or Colossae or Antioch.
WHY is that??

My point was... as much as the RCC puts emphasis on all churches to take their lead from the church at Rome as in the church started by Peter as in the Vatican, that has never been a correction for any church as instructed to do that in the latter days in the Book of Revelation.

Since this topic is about once saved, always saved.....how does the RCC address that topic? Is it true or is it false?

Per the Catholic catechism,

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the
Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’”

So how is that not the RCC looking like the Saviour more than Jesus? Or worse yet, how is that not you saving yourself by your works?

So I believe the RCC is the one that strayed, and like a lobster in a slowly boiling pot, a little leaven here and a little leaven there and pretty soon a Catholic has to wonder why Jesus Christ is the Good News to man, but most of them don't since they follow the RCC without any question.

Albeit, some did question and left according to the scripture in keeping the faith in Jesus Christ which is the good fight.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My point was... as much as the RCC puts emphasis on all churches to take their lead from the church at Rome as in the church started by Peter as in the Vatican, that has never been a correction for any church as instructed to do that in the latter days in the Book of Revelation.
Since this topic is about once saved, always saved.....how does the RCC address that topic? Is it true or is it false?

I'm not trying to insult you - but I have absolutely no idea what you are asking here. The way your sentences are structures makes it impossible to decipher what you are trying to articulate.

Per the Catholic catechism,
Catechism of the Catholic Church

So how is that not the RCC looking like the Saviour more than Jesus? Or worse yet, how is that not you saving yourself by your works?

So I believe the RCC is the one that strayed, and like a lobster in a slowly boiling pot, a little leaven here and a little leaven there and pretty soon a Catholic has to wonder why Jesus Christ is the Good News to man, but most of them don't since they follow the RCC without any question.

Albeit, some did question and left according to the scripture in keeping the faith in Jesus Christ which is the good fight.

By "RCC" - I'm assuming that you mean "Roman Catholic" Church. There is no such organization. The official name of the Church is, "The Catholic Church." "Roman" simply refers to the RITE., of which there are Twenty Rites that are ALL in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Some of these include the Maronite Rite, Byzantine Rite, Melkite Rite, Coptic Rite, etc.

Secondly - the paragraph that you posted from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not only true - it is supported 100% by Scripture.
1 Cor. 13:1-3
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love (charity), I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

The Catechism is simply echoing the Word of God.

 

[Taken]

Are you at ALL capable of giving concise answers?? Your responses are the same verbose diatribes – one after another.

You either do not understand PLAIN language step by step, or you do not bother to actually READ.

I’ll briefly sum up my position again in the hopes that YOU will respond in kind . .

We are given the gift of faith.

Yes.......for US HEARING, Reading...uh huh

We come to believe

Yes...

and we are Baptized.

NO...NO...NO...

YOU DECIDE, "IF" you want to GIVE YOUR LIFE to CHRIST.

IF you DO "THEN" you become CONVERTED..
Which, Forgiveness, Death of the body, Saving the soul, Quickening the spirit...
ARE "parts" of a mans Conversion.
Which ARE "effected" BY the HOLY SPIRIT'S Spiritual Baptism.

And are saved.

Uh huh.

[/QUOTE]This requires our cooperation.[/QUOTE]

"YES" "THAT" REQUIRES a mans WILLINGNESS....TO:
Hear,
Read,
Believe,
Choose to become Baptized IN CHRIST,
Repent,
Confess,
Submit "TO" Christ...Give his LIFE IN DEATH to Christ.

HOWEVER, because we are human, we stumble from time to time

Because we are HUMAN...we do not KNOW ALL THINGS.
A STUMBLE is causing UNINTENTIONAL harm, trespass to another.
Wickedness IS knowing what is WRONG, and "doing" it anyway.
And often times a MAN WILL twist things in his MIND, to justify doing something WRONG,
And MAY NOT really be concluding it IS Wrong, until Later. He also has Stumbled.

in sin. [/QHOTE]

HOW is that a SIN?
ONLY God forgives SINS....
SIN IS AGAINST GOD.

Mark 2:7
...Who can forgive sins, but God..

The Jews wanted to KILL JESUS for FORGIVING SINS. Remember?

Jesus is the Christ. He forgives the SINS of men WHO believe IN HIM.

Did you Stop believing in God, IN Christ?
No.

You are calling ACTIONS between "MEN" sins.
Men are taught to FORGIVE "trespasses" BETWEEN MEN.

Luke 17:3
IF they brother trespass against thee....forgive him.

We now have a choice to repent of those sins

An UNCOVERTED MAN SINS...
A CONVERTED MAN'S BODY is Forgiven it's sins.....that body is washed, sanctified, justified, covered and then becomes a DEAD crucified BODY, KEPT with Christ, until glorified and call up to meet Jesus in the air.

How do DEAD BODY's SIN?
How do DEAD MEN, ALIVE IN Christ's Body, sin?

Scripture notifies you THEY CAN NOT.

or to continue to offend God

HOW CAN you OFFEND GOD and Return to NOT BELIEVING IN GOD, IN Christ? The Lord has given a Converted man, a NEW HEART.
And the Lord's POWER is IN the man KEEPING the Man Faithful.

and further distance ourselves from Him. This ALSO requires our cooperation.

Distance yourself? How far away from God can a CONVERTED man get, when HIS SPIRIT IS "IN" the man?

I think you CONFUSE, "WORKS" with "COOPERATION".

A man WHO IS CONVERTED, HAS ALREADY, fulfilled Jesus' COMMANDS...and I gave you a list ... but then you simply retort...it's simply verbatose diatribe...

We strive to remain faithful

You are without understanding.
NO, men saved and born again DO NOT STRIVE to REMAIN FAITHFUL.

THEY ARE KEPT FAITHFUL by the INDWELLING POWER OF GOD.

Any truly converted man....CAN NEVER AGAIN ...NOT BELIEVE IN CHRIST/GOD!!!
IMPOSSIBLE!

to the end and we are rewarded

In the end......our body's are glorified and we can SEE our reward.

However our REWARD is already established, by the Power of God, within us.

with everlasting life

Everlasting Life is given a man when HIS spirit is born again, with Gods incorruptable SEED, which occurs at the mans Converstion.

in Heaven with God.

Not quite right. Depends on the circumstances.
If I were to physically bodily die today...

My living soul would depart my body and go to Heaven to wait for my body to be raised and glorified.

My living born again spirit would go to heaven to Gods hands and wait for my body to be raised and glorified.

My body would be cremated in a couple of days, and return to dust.

A man WHO is Converted, and bodily alive, and the Lord has returned to the clouds....His body is glorified and his body, soul, spirit is raised up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air. (His soul and spirit does not "go to heaven")

After the renewing of the Earth, and ONLY the Converted remain....the firmament between Heaven and Earth is OPENED, and Heaven and Earth Joined. IOW, heaven comes to Earth. Earth was created for mankinds habitat, it shall be the same in the future.

This “striving” to remain faithful again requires our cooperation.

OT men strived, to KEEP obedience to the Law.
Jews strived (and still do) to KEEP obedience to the Law.

I am not subject to the Law.
I do not have to strive to obey Jewish Laws.
I Subjected myself to CHRIST.
He fulfilled the Law.
I do not have to strive to obey CHRIST.
I fulfilled Christ's Commands, BEFORE I was Converted.
I fuflill Christ's COMMANDMENTS to LOVE the Lord, my God, and others, BY His Power in me to do so.

Other commands of Christ....fear not, beware of false prophets, etc... His power is IN ME, and by His Power, and continually LEANING ON HIS POWER, He effects, What He desires for me to be accomplished.

Bottom line: When we stop cooperating with God’s grace (i.e., we are disobedient), we are rejecting God.

False. Rejecting God, IS DISBELIEF!!

A Truly Converted man CAN NEVER BE AGAIN in DISBELIEF.

ALL

of the verses I presented speak to this fact as they are ALL in reference to converted, born again people.

No. Review them. "Knowledge"?? No that is not the method of being born again.

 

[Taken]

WRONG.

No matter HOW many times you repeat your false teaching - the Bible assures us that we can turn our backs on God and walk away from Him - LOSING our security.

YEP, After you have heard....WALK AWAY..

Judas did! Well, He RAN AWAY.

Judas heard, believed, rejected and ran away.

What you absolutely refuse to COMPREHEND is .... Judas was NOT SAVED, NOT BORN again, BECAUSE HE NEVER GAVE HIS LIFE TO CHRIST!!

For some ODD teaching...you teach, A man DOES NOT HAVE TO FREELY MAKE a CHOICE "TO" Give his Life to Christ.

You think everyone who BELIEVES, IS dragged by Christ into FORCING THEM TO RECEIVE Salvation and a BORN AGAIN SPIRIT???

You conveniently SKIP, over and over...the MAN giving his life to Christ.

I have shown repeatedly where Scripture warns us of this and YOU keep denying it. All I can say is good luck to you when you are being judged . . .

You have repeatedly offered Scriptures of UNCONVERTED believing men.

YOU read them believing, and all of a sudden YOU have decided they ARE CONVERTED...
None of the Scriptures you presented say they were Converted.

THEY were being Warned to STAY in the Word of God....or they are setting themselves up TO forfeit receiving Salvation and a Quickened Spirit.

 

[Taken]

Are you saying that a person cannot have a change of heart??
That is a ridiculous [rpp[[osition.

I flat out ask you...HOW CAN A HEART that has been CUT OFF, Exists NO MORE...
Back to It's OLD heart?

People fall in love and get married. they raise kids together - yet after time, they fall OUT of love with each other and get divorced.

So? What does WHAT TWO HUMANS DO...
Have to do with WHAT God does within a man?

If you want to discuss Spiritual things...It requires a Spiritual understanding.

Did they NOT make their initial vows with their hearts??
Did they NOT make them out of love for one another??

SO? THEY ARE HUMAN!! HUMANS FAIL, without the Power of God IN THEM.

Why do you think it is expressly IMPRESSED, God FIRST, then husband IN CHRIST and wife IN CHRIST? It is precisely BECAUSE both the husband and wife are SUPPOSED TO Understand...THEY are TOO WEAK to have a successful marriage WITHOUT CHIRST LEADING THEM, nurturing THEM.

Why do you think so many marriages FAIL...?
It is precisely BECAUSE they DO NOT enter into a Christ Centered Marriage.

YES to both questions. They simply LOST their love for each other.

You have not figured out, comparing TWO humans, to One Human and God...is a fail.

It is the SAME for some people who lose their love for God. God didn't lose His love for them - THEY lost it for HIM . . .

People who claim they "lost their love for God", never truly loved Him in the first place.
And were NOT Coverted.

A man DOES NOT HAVE the power to do or keep anything....without Gods Power.

A man can not keep his word, keep the law, keep honor, Keep faithfulness, Keep Loving the Lord, Love his enemies....ZIP NADA, WITHOUT the power of the Lord.

 

[Taken]

And THIS is that YOU fail to understand:

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

"HIS CHURCH"

Not man made denominations.
Christ's church IS a Converted MAN, who is "IN CHRIST".

The SPIRIT of God, of Truth, resides IN MEN, who are converted.
Jesus was teaching BODILY on earth.
He continues teaching SPIRITUALLY to men WHO are Quickened, Converted!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I'm not trying to insult you - but I have absolutely no idea what you are asking here. The way your sentences are structures makes it impossible to decipher what you are trying to articulate.

Yeah... it is a shortcoming at times. Sorry.

By "RCC" - I'm assuming that you mean "Roman Catholic" Church. There is no such organization. The official name of the Church is, "The Catholic Church." "Roman" simply refers to the RITE., of which there are Twenty Rites that are ALL in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Some of these include the Maronite Rite, Byzantine Rite, Melkite Rite, Coptic Rite, etc.

Thanks for the clarification, but it still points all churches in one direction and yet Revelation never corrected any church to do that in that fashion as prophesied in the latter days.

Secondly - the paragraph that you posted from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not only true - it is supported 100% by Scripture.
1 Cor. 13:1-3
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love (charity), I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

The Catechism is simply echoing the Word of God.

But the scriptural reference you cited does not agree with the catechism that the Catholic believer is not saved. It just says the believer's actions makes him nothing when he does not have love. Scripture does not say he is not saved. I mean, come on, now. How easy to just say that instead of "I am nothing" as if that implies loss of salvation which to me, is not saying that at all.

 

[Taken]

My point was... as much as the RCC puts emphasis on all churches to take their lead from the church at Rome ...

During the Reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine....the Roman Empire was VAST and divided in beliefs.

Constantine in short, converts to Christianity... well kind of...and does allow Christian worship openly without persecution.

Romans began converting to Christianity...well kind of...

Their ... Egyptian Mother Goddess, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God....BECAME MARY.

Their Mithraism...God of Mithras, consuming FLESH and BLOOD of the bull...BECAME the Lords Supper.

Their historical MANY gods, with ONE supreme God, "Jupiter", and lower gods "over" cities, love, strength, wisdom, etc...
BECAME God Almighty, and the lowers,
BECAME "the saints" over specifics, as they are today in Catholic teaching.

Gods "earthly" appointed father, Abraham,
Has become a man chosen by men, ie their pope.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

During the Reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine....the Roman Empire was VAST and divided in beliefs.

Constantine in short, converts to Christianity... well kind of...and does allow Christian worship openly without persecution.

Romans began converting to Christianity...well kind of...

Their ... Egyptian Mother Goddess, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God....BECAME MARY.

Their Mithraism...God of Mithras, consuming FLESH and BLOOD of the bull...BECAME the Lords Supper.

Their historical MANY gods, with ONE supreme God, "Jupiter", and lower gods "over" cities, love, strength, wisdom, etc...
BECAME God Almighty, and the lowers,
BECAME "the saints" over specifics, as they are today in Catholic teaching.

Gods "earthly" appointed father, Abraham,
Has become a man chosen by men, ie their pope.

God Bless,
Taken

Thanks for sharing.

There was a cult that had the Trinity set up with the Father, and Mary, and the Son. The founder of Islam came across that cult and made a mistake thinking that was the official doctrine of the Trinity. It is in the Koran.

May God bless you, brother.

 

[Heb 13:8]

That's not the point. Like the Prodigal Son - I can leave my dad and reject him. He may still be my dad but I don't have to accept anything that he leaves to me.

God gives us a gift - but He doesn't force us to keep it.

But in this case we're talking about the creator of the universe, not some random father on the streets.

 

[Heb 13:8]

"HIS CHURCH"

Not man made denominations.
Christ's church IS a Converted MAN, who is "IN CHRIST".

The SPIRIT of God, of Truth, resides IN MEN, who are converted.
Jesus was teaching BODILY on earth.
He continues teaching SPIRITUALLY to men WHO are Quickened, Converted!

You think he'll get it? Will it "click"