Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Andre]

If a person really stays on God's side, will the way that person leans with regard to the question polled make a difference?

The operative word here is "if". And leaning this way or that is a far cry from a 180 degree turn in the opposite direction.

 

[Andre]

Hey John.
I must admit...I not not yet found any that do not believe in OSAS that don't believe in hell fire. If they are on this Site I'd like to see their posts!! Really.

I'm with John on this one @ByGrace

 

[Andre]

So I am one of the lonesome few then. Well that is OK as the most important really is charity/love anyway.

You and me both John.

 

[Andre]

There must, however, be a place where God is NOT. That is hell.

As far as I know, according to scripture, there is a place called Sheol/Hades. The Bible describes it as a place where the dead go and it is divided in two. Separated by a Chasm. The one half of Sheol is where the dead in Christ go (Abraham's Bosom) and the other half is reserved for those who will remain there until the second resurrection.
(Rev 20:5 [KJV])
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
(1Cor 1:18 [KJV])
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Then there is a place called the lake of fire where all those who perish will end up.
(Rev 20:15 [KJV])
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[LC627]

Foreknow, predestined, called, justified, glorified.

If God has foreknown you
If God has predestined you
If God has called you
If God has justified you (free from guilt and in right standing with Him)
And if God has glorified you.....it is all the work of God.

Fruits of righteousness done by the believer are a demonstration not a foundation of salvation on which salvation is maintained.

 

[Andre]

The explanations for those who lived prior to the sacrifice of Jesus and/or under another covenant may be different, but that really makes little difference to you or to me.

I believe that those who lived prior to the sacrifice of Jesus will be resurrected (physically) at the end of the millennium. Without any prior knowledge of a previous life they will be given an equal opportunity for salvation for the first time. Satan will also be let loose during this time.
(Rev 20:7 [KJV])
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
According to scripture many will once again be deceived and will perish.

 

[Helen]

I believe that those who lived prior to the sacrifice of Jesus will be resurrected (physically) at the end of the millennium. Without any prior knowledge of a previous life they will be given an equal opportunity for salvation for the first time. Satan will also be let loose during this time.
(Rev 20:7 [KJV])
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
According to scripture many will once again be deceived and will perish.

I was just about to give you a 'like' as I read your post...but the last line ruined it for me.

I don't think I have have ever said "hello" to you?
So...this is it!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Speaking of sparks....it would be refreshing, for you to stop pretending you are repeating news.

No one has said Men can not lose their salvation. As a matter of fact, that point has been repeated to ad nausum, yet still you pretend it hasn't.

Sheesh!!

Wrong.
You've claimed on every page of this thread that a man cannot lose his salvation.

YOUR case has been that a man who has "lost" it never had it to begin with.
That's not "losing" anything, Einstein. That's never having HAD it.

The Bible, however is crystal clear on the fact that we can be born again, saved - then LOSE it all by walking away from God (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).


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[Andre]

but the last line ruined it for me.

Aw why? Is it because of the many that will be deceived and perish?
(Rev 20:7 [KJV])
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(Rev 20:8 [KJV])
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
(Rev 20:9 [KJV])
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(Rev 20:10 [KJV])
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The words translated "for ever and ever" means an age.

 

[BreadOfLife]

THEY DID HAVE THE OPPORTINITY TO RECEIVE SALVATION.
THEY LOSE IT, BY NOT RECEIVING IT!
No. The verses you keep posting ARE out of Chapters of the Apostles PREACHING to men...some of whom ARE Saved, and some of WHOM are NOT SAVED, but believing, BUT HAVE NOT YET surrendered their LIFE TO Christ.....THEY ARE STUDENTS LEARNING.
You have not yet figured out, it is the STUDENT, who believes, but is NOT YET COMMITTED who is in Danger of LOSING his opportunity to RECEIVE SALVATION.
The Crowds were MIXED. With some saved and some not. You can not tell who is who, which is a fail to divide the Word of truth.
NO DUH!
A man who has become SAVED, IS NOT FALLEN, and Remains with God, BY Gods POWER....
BIG DIFFERENCE!
You simply can NOT comprehend the difference between believing and submitting ones life TO Christ BECAUSE of their belief.
Nor can you comprehend WHO in Scripture is believing and learning FROM WHO is submitted their life Because they believed.
And you repeat your lack of understanding over and over and over and over and over.

The following verses ALL speak to those who can . . .
a. Come to faith
b. Be born again
c. Be Saved
d. LOSE everything by walking away from God.
Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19

Remember, sparky - Salvation is a CHOICE - not a sentence . . .

 

[Andre]

I don't think I have have ever said "hello" to you?
So...this is it!

Hi.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Slavation IS a "DONE DEAL", "ONCE" a man "IS" "IN" Christ.
All the "GIFTS" necessary "FOR" Salvation to "BE A DONE DEAL" has been "GIVEN" "BY" the Lord and "RECEIVED" "UNTO" the man.
"WHAT" a man DOES going FORWARD, "DOES NOT AFFECT", WHAT THE Lord HAS "SPIRITUALLY" ACCOMPLISH-ED IN THE MAN.
THAT MAN, WILL FOREVER, BY the Lords POWER IN THE MAN, "BE" IN FAITH-FULLNESS of BELIEF "IN" the Lord.
"WHAT" a man DOES going FORWARD...."IS"
ACCOUNTED TO THAT INDIVIDUAL MAN...
That man MAY be a GREAT servant on behalf of the Lord; speaking His Word; telling others ABOUT the Lord; that others MAY DESIRE to ALSO become CONVERTED......
AND the Lord SHALL reward such man.
OR THAT man MAY be a LUMP, observed BY other men, AS DOING NOTHING in service to the Lord. So WHAT? It is that man himself, who suffers at the losing of rewards from the Lord. It is that man himself who suffers the finger pointing and accusations of other men.
It is that man himself who shall be called the LEAST in the Kingdom of Heaven.
THAT is that man's own Choices being effected and he himself suffering the Consequences........
IT DOES NOT AFFECT HIS SALVATION HE HAS ALREADY .......RECEIV-ED!
While the "LUMP" or the "LEAST" may not BE acceptable to you....
A LITTLE, the LEAST....is acceptable TO God.
Rom 11:16
1 Cor 5:6 -7
Gal 5:9

NOWHERE do the Scriptures EVER even imply that salvation is a one-time, slam dunk event.
The CONTEXT of Scripture informs us that it is a process.

Unfortunately - context is NOT your friend because you cherry-pick Scripture . . .

 

[amadeus]

I believe that those who lived prior to the sacrifice of Jesus will be resurrected (physically) at the end of the millennium. Without any prior knowledge of a previous life they will be given an equal opportunity for salvation for the first time. Satan will also be let loose during this time.
(Rev 20:7 [KJV])
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
According to scripture many will once again be deceived and will perish.

You'll not get a definite yea or a nay from me on this one. I don't know and I must leave it at that regarding the OT people.

I do however believe that God is always fair and never a respecter of persons. When people are deceived it is I believe because they do not love the Truth. This would be true for OT people as well as for new. But if a person keeps on the approach to God even after making a mistake as David did with Bathsheba and Uriah, God will not leave them without a possibility of making the necessary corrections... if they do it while they still have time. Only God knows how much time remains to any individual.

 

[LC627]

BreadOfLife - "Remember, sparky - Salvation is a CHOICE - not a sentence . . ."[/QUOTE]

Salvation is an eternal sentence. Also, no sinner in the flesh would ever choose God unless the Holy Spirit convicts them. Why would God convict a person to repent and be saved just for them to lose it when He already knows whether or not they would be lost? God does not temporarily redeem people. Salvation is strictly the work of God and no human effort or work

John 1:13 - children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

A Christian has already passed from death to life. (John 5:24)

You were blind and God gave you sight, you were drowning and God saved you, you were lost and God found you, you were dead in sin and Christ gave you freedom. We do nothing at all to maintain a piece of salvation, nothing at all even comes close to the blood of Christ which pardoned us. Works based salvation is like God throwing you a raft with no air in it while you are drowning and having you blow it up yourself. It does not work like that, God redeemed and sealed His children, we are His. He fully provided the means for salvation. As I said before, works (fruits of righteousness) only demonstrate salvation, they're not the foundation of it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife - "Remember, sparky - Salvation is a CHOICE - not a sentence . . ."

Salvation is an eternal sentence. Also, no sinner in the flesh would ever choose God unless the Holy Spirit convicts them. Why would God convict a person to repent and be saved just for them to lose it when He already knows whether or not they would be lost? God does not temporarily redeem people. Salvation is strictly the work of God and no human effort or work

John 1:13 - children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

A Christian has already passed from death to life. (John 5:24)

You were blind and God gave you sight, you were drowning and God saved you, you were lost and God found you, you were dead in sin and Christ gave you freedom. We do nothing at all to maintain a piece of salvation, nothing at all even comes close to the blood of Christ which pardoned us. Works based salvation is like God throwing you a raft with no air in it while you are drowning and having you blow it up yourself. It does not work like that, God redeemed and sealed His children, we are His. He fully provided the means for salvation. As I said before, works (fruits of righteousness) only demonstrate salvation, they're not the foundation of it.

It seems you have conflated Redemption and Salvation.

EVERYBODY was redeemed (paid for) at Calvary - but NOT everybody will be saved. Salvation requires our cooperation with God's grace of redemption. This does NOT add up to a "works-based" salvation. You ALWAYS have the choice of continuing to follow God or to walk away.

You correctly used "drowning" as a metaphor for our condition before salvation. We are drowning and the boat of salvation rescues us. We are saved.
However - NOTHING keeps us from jumping back into the water if we so choose - which MANY people do.

Salvation is an eternal condition if WE choose it. It is NOT an eternal sentence from which we cannot escape.
God is not a Cosmic Rapist who forces His love on us. He gives US the choice to stay or leave . . .

 

[LC627]

2 Timothy 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

 

[BreadOfLife]

Foreknow, predestined, called, justified, glorified.

If God has foreknown you
If God has predestined you
If God has called you
If God has justified you (free from guilt and in right standing with Him)
And if God has glorified you.....it is all the work of God.

Fruits of righteousness done by the believer are a demonstration not a foundation of salvation on which salvation is maintained.

The idea that God has "foreknown" and "predestined" us are the most misrepresented Biblical concepts there are.

a. God "foreknows" - He doesn't coerce.
b. God "predestines" based on OUR understanding of the word - but is it based on the fact that he ALREADY knows. This is not a choice HE makes - but OURS.
c. God "calls" everybody - but NOT everybody (John 3:16) responds (1 Tim. 2:3-4).
d. God "justifies" those who cooperate with His redemptive grace (Rom. 5:1, James 2:21).

 

[BreadOfLife]

2 Timothy 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

God WILLS the salvation of ALL men - and that ALL come to a knowledge (epignosis) of the truth.
Will ALL be saved or will ALL come to a knowledge of the truth??

 

[LC627]

God WILLS the salvation of ALL men - and that ALL come to a knowledge (epignosis) of the truth.
Will ALL be saved or will ALL come to a knowledge of the truth??

God desires that all be saved but even God doesn't get what He wants. God knew who would respond to His saving grace through His Son. Foreknowledge = predestination. How else could God choose us in Christ before the foundation of the world?? He did. It's in scripture. And we don't need to understand every mystery of God to have faith in Him and His purpose. Man is accountable for his actions and it is sad that not all come to the knowledge of truth because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie. God knew you before He created the world and the choices you would make. In a way, you kinda do believe in eternal security because once you're Heaven its a done deal, you're eternally secure (unless you still hold the position that God isn't forcing you to stay there since He isn't a "cosmic rapist" as you put it, but my guess is with hell as the only other option you'll stay ) Where I stand, is that I am already eternally secured in the present since I've passed from death to life and it is Christ who reigns in my life and it is by God's grace. I can enjoy and have the assurance of hope of Heaven only because of what Jesus did, not of any work I did.

Foreknew, predestined, called, justified, glorified refers to the saved - not everyone.

Let me ask though, what did YOU do today to maintain your salvation? What work was good enough or equal to the blood that purchased you?

 

[Taken]

Wrong.
You've claimed on every page of this thread that a man cannot lose his salvation.

YOUR case has been that a man who has "lost" it never had it to begin with.
That's not "losing" anything, Einstein. That's never having HAD it.

The Bible, however is crystal clear on the fact that we can be born again, saved - then LOSE it all by walking away from God (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).


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