Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Friend, I'm sorry but you are blind!
How does God call us?
I taught you already,
Get it out of your head, the calvinist error that lost sinners do not have the ability to believe and obey God.
People come to faith in Jesus by hearing the gospel taught to them.
2Thessalonians 2:14,
-to which He called you by our gospel for obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:17,
-so then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God(the word of God is His gospel)
The Bible teaches faith comes to those by hearing the gospel preached to them.
This proves the lost can believe and obey the gospel.
God has given this gift to all men.
1John 2:2,
-and Jesus Himself is the propitiation for our sins(those already elected)
And not for ours only but also for the whole world (the lost who have not yet been elected)
Everyone has the ability to have faith in Christ through the hearing of the gospel
Give me one example in the Bible where someone is regenerated born again before they believe the gospel.
You cant do it!
This proves your theology is only theory
It is not based on evidence.
Give me just one example Lifelong sinner
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
uhmmm your question is confusing, but here goes. All of the disciples were regenerated before faith. In luke 5, Jesus tells peter to throw his net out, peter says we’ve been fishing all nite with nothing to show, but peter did it and his net was so full. There was no gospel sharing there. And when peter saw this, he immediately kneeled before Jesus and called Him Lord. Literally EVERY person that has ever been saved had to be regenerated by God before they could even acknowledge they were a sinner even.
Hello, Lifelong sinner,
I listened to the whole video from RC Sproul.
When he teaches that men are in their flesh.
That the flesh is only wicked, immoral and can only desire sin.
You may have never heard what I am going to tell you,
Calvinism is a rebirth of Gnosticism.
If you are not familiar with Gnosticism,
You need to begin to study it.
You will be amazed that they teach exactly what RC Sproul taught about the flesh in the video you posted.
The gnostics, btw, they are still around to this day,
teach that the flesh is immoral, corrupt.
The gnostics denied that Jesus was God in the flesh.
The reason why is, they claim Deity could never take on the form of flesh.
Only those who are depraved, dirty are flesh.
They teach you must be seperated from the flesh to be enlightened.
Heres where gnostics and RC Sproul error.
They seem to be ignorant that mankind is more than flesh and blood.
Man is a triune being just as God is,
O, yes our flesh also has a Soul!
And this Soul is everlasting.
It is not flesh. It is spirit.
Just as God is Spirit.
We can believe and desire God while still lost because we have more than just flesh and bones.
God created man in His image.
We have souls that desire God.
1Thessalonians 5:23,
-Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, how could anyone believe the gospel of Jesus Christ BEFORE it was taught in its entirety.
BEFORE it came into effect.
Read Hebrews 9:16-17.
Jesus's gospel did not go into force until Acts 2.
Even with the disciples of Jesus none of them had were saved before they believed in Jesus.
By teaching and miracles is how they came to faith.
Today it is done just by Jesus' teaching.
Never before.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
not true. Only the elect will be saved.
from our long catechism;
“Q. 61. Are all they saved who hear the gospel, and live in the church?
A. All that hear the gospel, and live in the visible church, are not saved; but they only who are true members of the church invisible.”
Q. 67. What is effectual calling?
A. Effectual calling is the work of God's almighty power and grace, whereby (out of his free and special love to his elect, and from nothing in them moving him thereunto) he doth, in his accepted time, invite and draw them to Jesus Christ, by his word and Spirit; savingly enlightening their minds, renewing and powerfully determining their wills, so as they (although in themselves dead in sin) are hereby made willing and able freely to answer his call, and to accept and embrace the grace offered and conveyed therein.
Q. 68. Are the elect only effectually called?
A. All the elect, and they only, are effectually called; although others may be, and often are, outwardly called by the ministry of the word, and have some common operations of the Spirit; who, for their willful neglect and contempt of the grace offered to them, being justly left in their unbelief, do never truly come to Jesus Christ.
Here is the entire long catechism.
Larger Catechism: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul didnt war against sin.
And the reason you think he did, is because you never kept reading past your verse.
See, your verse, is not the end of Paul's teaching.....its just the end of yours.
But, had you read a bible, a New Testament..... Paul's letters, you would have found that Paul wrote this..
"Christ ALWAYS gives me the VICTORY".
See that word "always"....
It means "always".
Christ ALWAYS gave Paul the Victory, and Paul explains why and how.
You just have to study a bit more and find out.
Or, you can listen to a good teacher, and find out.
Up to you, really.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
nope, thats not how this works. We have absolutely, positively, no choice in the matter. Literally no choice. At all. If you did, then salvation would be by yourself and not God. God chooses who the elect are. And we are not to question who was and wasnt picked. We have just as much choice about getting saved, as we do sprouting wings and flying. Its literally impossible for us to choose.
Friend you are not saved
Your own words.
What do you call yourself?
Lifelong sinner
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
i call myself many things; unsaved, non elect, condemned, law breaker, unrighteous, lost. Im sure theres more to describe me, but those are what comes to mind.
I hope you can overcome your sinful desire that has taken control of your life.
I worry about you, and your family.
I will pray for you to be well, physically and spiritually.
God gave all an invitation.
God invites us to come to Him.
God gives conditions to come to Him.
Those conditions are HIS TERMS not ours.
I must submit to His conditions for Him to give me His gift.
I am not making the decision on how I will be saved.
I am submitting to His conditions.
God calls us to faith,
God calls us to repentance,
God calls us to publicly confess our faith in Him,
God calls us to be baptized in His name.
If I do His will,
How am I saving myself without God?
Without doing the will of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit,
No man can save himself.
When a man does His will God saves us and we play a part in our salvation but we do not save ourselves apart from God.
Only God has the power to take away the sins of the world, John 1:29.
Revelation 22:17,
-And the Spirit and the bride say Come! And let him who hears say Come! And let him who thrists come. WHOEVER DESIRES, let him take the water of life freely.
Acts 2:40,
-And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying save yourselves from this perverse generation.
Man plays a part in his salvation.
Gods part, Grace Mans part, Faith
God only saves those who meet His qualifications.
Hebrews 5:8-9
I showed you how to get Saved...You appear uninterested.....so now you can add one more thing to the description of yourself—— “Without Excuse”...
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
dont you think i’ve tried that? For the last 3 yrs, without any success. I’ve asked the Lord more times than i can remember, i’ve repented more times than i can remember. None of it has worked.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
while not heretical teaching, the belief that we are three parts is wrong. We are flesh, and a soul.
The Prerogative for Salvation belongs to God —— “ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”
Familiarize yourself with the story in Acts in regard to “ Lydia, the Seller Of Purple” .....she was an Unsaved woman .....it is written that God “ Opened her Heart” to Receive the Gospel.....is there any reason to think that what God did for Lydia would be different for anybody else? If I were Unsaved I would Turn to God and ask Him to “ Open My Heart” to the Gospel ....
God said, “ TURN to Me ( a type of “ Repentance” That will actually GET you somewhere with God) and I will Turn to You”......
Yep...Salvation is the simple...Have you turned to Him as a Lost Sinner who needs a Savior?Give it a whirl....it works...
ScottA
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- Feb 24, 2011
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That is not what I was commenting on. You made this statement, which does not represent the freedom we have in Christ:
"The Bible teaches, You must control the sinful desires of the flesh."
I do not dispute the law of Christ (not at all), but rather that the idea of "control" by "us" is not really the message of the gospel.
Sorry if that seemed to derail your discussion. That was not my intention.
When you talk about “ Repentance”, are you talking about “ repenting from sin?” If you ” are” doing that, its no wonder you find yourself “ spinning your wheels”.....The Repentance That Saves is not being sorry for sin ( was there anybody ever more “sorry” than Judas? He is damned ).....The Repentance That Saves is not “Turning over a New Leaf” ....
The word “ Repentance” comes from the Greek word “ metanoia” that literally means “ mind change” ...
Trusting the Gospel Found In 1Cor15:1-4 is what Saves a man today...that Gospel is “ foolishness” to those that Perish.....If you never saw the NEED to Trust in the Gospel ( acknowledging that you are a Sinner That can’t save himself by being “ good enough” ) and after that ,Choosing NOT to Believe it , you are completely Lost.....If you Repent, or Change your Mind about the Truth Of The Gospel ( seeing that you need it and choosing to put your trust in *IT* alone as your+means of Salvation) you have accomplished the only “ Repenting” That God commands in order to GET and STAY Saved.....
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
im gonna be honest, i had to read your comment. A lot. To try and understand it correctly. So i read 1 cor 15:1-4. So im hoping i get the order of your comment right.
First, im pretty sure i have acknowledged that i am indeed quite the sinner, worse than most i figure. And i acknowledge that i cant stop sinning, no matter what i have tried. i have always said the Bible is inerrant. And i get that i need a Saviour. I have never questioned what the Bible says. Its not an issue of lack of trust, its an issue of why wont God save me? Why wont He work a miracle in me and save me? Have i done so much evil that im beyond saving? Sure looks that way.
For 3 yrs, all i have asked for is to be saved, and yet, nothing. Does He hate me? Why wont He save me? What am i not doing that i need to do?? I dont know. I’ve tried everything i know to try. And yet, nothing.
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