Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character

[Behold]

@Behold

Jesus is the Savior of all, exactly as He is LORD OF ALL., right now. In both cases, Patrick1966.

But do all recognize Him as Their Lord? And not all will be saved,.

Listen,

Philippians 2:10-11, says that everyone on earth and in Hell.....will be doing this.

Yet "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus IS LORD".

 

[Patrick1966]

But do all recognize Him as Their Lord? And not all will be saved,.

If Jesus doesn't actually save all men, then he is not the savior of all men. The verse is clear. Jesus saves ALL (eventually).

 

[Patrick1966]

Philippians 2:10-11, says that everyone on earth and in Hell.....will be doing this.

Yet "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus IS LORD"

Amen!

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Behold]

46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

The "righteous", are the born again.

This is the "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb".....This is..>>"all that CALL ON the Name of Jesus, believing, shall be saved".

This is "Jesus said.....all that believe in me, i give unto them eternal life, and they shall never go to Hell (never perish)"""

Who will go to Hell, and will stay there?

Jesus said..>"Depart from me, i never knew you"........and He wont be knowing them later, after they are in Hell.

Jesus knows you while you are alive, because you are born again, or you will die, never being known by Him.

Hell is taking more of them in, right now, as we are talking about it.

 

[Behold]

Amen!

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

"Saved" from what?

1.) ETERNAL = Judgment for your sin.

2.) Saved from : John 3:36

A.) So that you wont go to HELL.

 

[Patrick1966]

The "righteous", are the born again.

This is the "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb".....This is..>>"all that CALL ON the Name of Jesus, believing, shall be saved".

This is "Jesus said.....all that believe in me, i give unto them eternal life, and they shall never go to Hell (never perish)"""

Who will go to Hell, and will stay there?

Jesus said..>"Depart from me, i never knew you"........and He wont be knowing them later, after they are in Hell.

Jesus knows you while you are alive, because you are born again, or you will die, never being known by Him.

Hell is taking more of them in, right now, as we are talking about it.

age-during

Hell is for an age

Faithful believers in Christ go to Heaven for the remainder of this age while others are sent to Hell, for an age or a period of time but not beyond the age.

 

[Patrick1966]

"Saved" from what?

From Hell and from death. Unbelievers are NOT saved from Hell, but they are saved from eternal death. It's God's will that ALL will go to him. Who can defy God's will?

Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

 

[Behold]

Hell is for an age

Cult teaching, New Testament Denying.
You, and your "church", are not related to any New Testament Mainline Denomination's Theology.

So, let me show you this, and then i'll let you have the Microphone., as ive posted so much for the Readers, that i wanted them to see, and they will.


The question is......where is Hell found?

A.) Its found at the end of a Christ Rejecting Life.


Next Question. Who was Hell created for?

A.) """"" The DEVIL and His Angels.""""

Now, will they be getting out? Will they be "saved" ?
And neither will SONS of the Devil, who are all the unbelievers found in Hell, .... and because they never became Son's of God on EARTH,
= they wont be doing this in Hell.
There is no Cross there..There is no Salvation offered there.. There is no 2nd Chance in Hell.

Believe it.
God does, and He should know.

 

[Patrick1966]

Cult teaching, New Testament Denying.
You, and your "church", are not related to any New Testament Mainline Denomination's Theology.

The ORIGINAL scriptures, written in Greek, say that people are sent to Hell "age-during". The KJV is an awful translation of the original Greek.

 

[Chadrho]

Why do you believe that I don't believe in Hell?

It's a common (deliberate?) misunderstanding. At least, the classical Christian account of universal restoration never abrogated the biblical notion of "hell." It was just understood to be cathartic and restorative instead of penal, retributive, and never-ending.


Pace St. Isaac the Syrian:
"Accordingly the Kingdom and Gehenna are matters belonging to mercy, which were conceived of in their essence by God as a result of his eternal goodness.

That we should further say or think that the matter is not full of love and mingled with compassion would be an opinion full of blasphemy and insult to our Lord God. By saying that he will even hand us over to burning for the sake of sufferings, torment and all sorts of ills, we are attributing to the divine nature an enmity towards the very rational beings which he created through grace; the same is true if we say that he acts or thinks with spite and with a vengeful purpose, as though he were avenging himself.

Among all his actions there is none which is not entirely a matter of mercy, love, and compassion: this constitutes the beginning and the end of his dealings with us. No part belonging to any single one of all rational beings will be lost, as far as God is concerned, in preparation of that supernal Kingdom which is prepared for all worlds."

 

[Patrick1966]

It's a common (deliberate?) misunderstanding. At least, the classical Christian account of universal restoration never abrogated the biblical notion of "hell." It was just understood to be cathartic and restorative instead of penal, retributive, and never-ending.


Pace St. Isaac the Syrian:
"Accordingly the Kingdom and Gehenna are matters belonging to mercy, which were conceived of in their essence by God as a result of his eternal goodness.

That we should further say or think that the matter is not full of love and mingled with compassion would be an opinion full of blasphemy and insult to our Lord God. By saying that he will even hand us over to burning for the sake of sufferings, torment and all sorts of ills, we are attributing to the divine nature an enmity towards the very rational beings which he created through grace; the same is true if we say that he acts or thinks with spite and with a vengeful purpose, as though he were avenging himself.

Among all his actions there is none which is not entirely a matter of mercy, love, and compassion: this constitutes the beginning and the end of his dealings with us. No part belonging to any single one of all rational beings will be lost, as far as God is concerned, in preparation of that supernal Kingdom which is prepared for all worlds."

Does this mean that me and @Behold won't be allowed to stick ice picks into the ears of the bad people in Hell?

 

[Patrick1966]

@Behold

Does eternal damnation sound consistent with our creator described here?

1 John 4:7-21

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot[a] love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

 

[Chadrho]

If you go to hell, you chose it..... you chose to go there.

That's just my point. In order for someone to chose that, they would either not be in their right mind, and sin is a good indication we are not in our right mind, or they are deceived, and we know sin is the result of a deception, i.e., we choose what seems good when it truly ain't.

Did not God offer His Son so that you can CHOOSE to go to heaven?

God sent the Son to free us from the power of sin from which we cannot free ourselves. If all it took was a mere choice, then there would be no need to send Christ; we could just choose goodness and rightness and be done with it.

So, blaming God for the CHOICE an unbeliever makes is to not understand what you are saying.

I'm not blaming God; I don't think God sends people to eternal torment because they made the wrong choice. You believe that, hence, you are blaming God for creating creatures who choose their own eternal torment when God knew that would happen.

God honors free will.. God HONORS your choices you make.
If you CHOOSE to die a Christ REJECTOR, never born again..... then GOD honors your choice

Do you hear yourself? You are saying God cares more about our choice of evil and sin than God does for us as God's creatures created in God'sown image. According to you, God cares more about evil choices than anything else. In fact, God will sacrifice us to an eternity of torment just so that evil will be realized and sustained forever. What you call freedom is imprisonment; therefore, God loves for us to be enslaved to sin more than God cares that we be made free in righteousness. Lord have mercy, according to you, God loves evil more than good! That can't be right. In love, I say you should seriously reconsider your position

 

[Patrick1966]

God honors free will? That's another made-up myth. Don't believe me? Go ask Jonah.

 

[Patrick1966]

Does this sound like a God that tortures souls forever?

Joel 2:13
English Standard Version
13 and rend your hearts and not your garments.”
Return to the Lord your God,
for he is gracious and merciful,
slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love;
and he relents over disaster.

 

[Behold]

That's just my point. In order for someone to chose that, they would either not be in their right mind,

When i say Hell and Heaven are eternal destinations, then that is true.

Let me show you what i mean..

A man and a woman, who are married are sitting in a Church Pew, on Easter Sunday, tomorrow.
They go to church once a year. Many are like this, also.
They are listening to a Minister Preach the Cross, the Resurrection, the Gift of Salvation.
The Minister offers them Heaven....... Jesus is the only WAY there........The Minister tells them that The Cross is God's gift of Love and if they will come and take Christ by faith, believing, God will take them by new Birth.........and they will be SAVED, and will go to Heaven.

The woman, thinks...>"if i do that, i can't keep smoking and i'll have to join this stupid church".

The man thinks.....>"oh Thank you Jesus.......oh thank you God........thank you, i want to be saved".

He goes to the alter and kneels, but He believed in Christ in the PEW, before he even goes to the alter up front.......as that alter is really just to prove you are publicly confessing Christ. "with the heart you believe and confession is made with the mouth"....
He's kneeling, crying, saved.......joyful......changed....redeemed. Now a SON of GOD....born again.

The woman all this time..... is thinking..>"""wow, its already 12:05p, and im supposed to meet my girlfriend at the Steak & Burger, and this moron Pastor just keeps talking about JESUS< JESUS....... ugggg......can you ever stop"""""


The man who is saved and the woman who resisted the Holy Spirit, both died in a traffic wreck 5 mins after they left the Church.

The man Chose Heaven before He died.

The woman Chose Hell before she died.

Both were in their "right mind". = Free Will

That's how it is..... as the Cross is always there. Jesus is always calling...... but, if you wont go to Him, and die, you just chose Hell.
Don't blame God.

 

[Patrick1966]

When i say Hell and Heaven are eternal destinations, then that is true.

Nope. Nobody remains in either Heaven or Hell for eternity because the new Earth with God is everybody's "eternal" home.

 

[Patrick1966]

The woman Chose Hell before she died.

 

[Patrick1966]

Both were in their "right mind". = Free Will

Did God honor Jonah's "free will"?

 

[St. SteVen]

Yea. I'm hoping that, when I get to Heaven, God will let me help him to torture the bad people; it sounds like fun!

You may be in luck.

Revelation 14:9-11 ESV
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”