When I read this, it seemed that you supported OSAS.
I understand that it is a derrogatory term, but not sure what else to call it.
Then you posted this, which is clearly against OSAS.
Can you clarify? Thanks.
Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character
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I understand that it is a derrogatory term, but not sure what else to call it.
Can you clarify? Thanks.
Behold
Well-Known Member
JUDE.
Its a NT epistle that most Believers have never studied.
Its there and in one of Paul's verses that OSAS, this twisted idea that is used against the Grace of God, ..is Discovered.
Its simple....OSAS is to teach that God's Grace, when its taught correctly, is "license to sin".
So, a person is deceived into the cult teaching against.... God's Grace which is "where sin abounds, GRACE more abounds"....and "God was in Christ NOT COUNTING SIN against humanity"........
See that? That is the Cross of Christ's purpose........
Well The OSAS cult says....if you teach that as Paul taught it and JUDE teaches it, then you are saying..."oh, so you can just live like a devil because God has you covered with the Cross".
And in Fact God does have you covered with the BLOOD of JESUS, because Jesus """is the one time eternal sacrifice for your sin"""
...and 2 Corinthians 5:19 explains how.
The deception in this that the Devils deceives you with is......He teaches that if you understand that your sin is gone, and you are freed from sin, then you will then go out and sin and sin and sin and love it, because now you have a license to do that....
See that TWIST?
But in fact, the more you understand that you are not under judgement for sin ever again, the more you want to live HOLY.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation,
I recall that as the common rebuttal, which strikes me as a false accusation. (bearing false witness)
Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) as I understand it, is typically used as a derogatory term for "eternal security".
The opponents of OSAS (eternal security) claim that you can lose your salvation. How careless.
(found my car keys, but salvation is nowhere to be found) - LOL
The opponents of OSAS (eternal security) typically turn the Christian life into something
that resembles a high-wire tightrope walk across the abyss with the flames of hell licking hungrily
at your bare feet just waiting for you to fall. "Endure to the end" or you are toast. A life of fear.
Here's my view. Please respond. Thanks.
We cannot, by an act of our own will, undo what only God can do in the first place.
Even in the case of reprobation, it is God's decision, not ours. (Romans 1:28)
Are you claiming that you do not have eternal security?
That you will have to wait and see if you make it, or not?
And if you don't, then what? Too late, right?
As soon as we make our salvation dependent on anything except the finished
work of the atonement on our behalf, we are on thin ice. (or worse)
I've never known any Christian to teach that. (OSAS is "license to sin")
I recall that as the common rebuttal, which strikes me as a false accusation. (bearing false witness)
Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) as I understand it, is typically used as a derogatory term for "eternal security".
The opponents of OSAS (eternal security) claim that you can lose your salvation. How careless.
(found my car keys, but salvation is nowhere to be found) - LOL
The opponents of OSAS (eternal security) typically turn the Christian life into something
that resembles a high-wire tightrope walk across the abyss with the flames of hell licking hungrily
at your bare feet just waiting for you to fall. "Endure to the end" or you are toast. A life of fear.
Here's my view. Please respond. Thanks.
We cannot, by an act of our own will, undo what only God can do in the first place.
Even in the case of reprobation, it is God's decision, not ours. (Romans 1:28)
Are you claiming that you do not have eternal security?
That you will have to wait and see if you make it, or not?
And if you don't, then what? Too late, right?
As soon as we make our salvation dependent on anything except the finished
work of the atonement on our behalf, we are on thin ice. (or worse)
Behold
Well-Known Member
OSAS, is a teaching against God's Grace, by accusing the Doctrine of God's Grace, as being "OSAS".
See that?
No one teaches OSAS. What is taught by this Cult of Grace Deniers... = is OSAS.
"OSAS is license to sin"..... See that? That is the Teaching.. and that's not someone who understands that Eternal Life never ends.
Its the Teaching that teaches that Eternal Life is "Cheap Grace' = is how Grace is being taught subversively so that the person ends up against Grace, and against Eternal life and a denier of the Cross.
JUDE said....these people came in and redefined Grace as "licentiousness". That is the subversion of the Doctrine of Grace.
You wont ever find a person who is in this OSAS cult, to understand the Cross or the Blood atonement, or , eternal life.
Why?
Because its LEGALISM that is OSAS the cult......and everyone of these people believes they can lose their Salvation, and its that demonic Stronghold that is the core of "why i hate OSAS", this cult teaching.
See it?
See, you can't believe that you can lose your Salvation, and also understand God's Grace, correctly.
Thus..."OSAS" the cult, the teaching, is born.
I apologize for being so thick-headed on this. But...
What is your doctrine of God's Grace then?
It seems confusing to me when you say, "... you can't believe that you can lose your Salvation..."
But then say a person that believes "once saved always saved" is from an OSAS cult that promotes sin. ???
Behold
Well-Known Member
thank you for the Question(s)
Jesus is our Salvation.
Jesus is our Sanctification
Jesus is our Blood Atonment
Jesus is God's Grace.
The Cross of Christ is God's Grace that brought God's Salvation to this world....
John 3:16-17
2 Corinthians 5:19
Romans 4:8
= and its applied to us as : "as many as will believe". "faith is counted as righteousness"... "Justified by faith".
When we BELIEVE in Jesus, this means we have repented from our unbelief and are no longer this.
John 3:36
God then sees our faith in Christ IN our Heart, and accepts it to then give us "The Gift of Righteousness". and "The Gift of Salvation"
This is God's very own eternal life, and that does not ever end....and to have that is : our Salvation.
John said you can KNOW that you have eternal life..... and that Life is JESUS.
1 John 5:13
Jesus said..>"i am THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life"......>"LIFE"......."i came to give you LIFE and that more abundantly".....= ETERNAL.
Salvation, and Eternal Life are JESUS.
When you have JESUS IN YOU, and you are "IN CHRIST", that is to have received God's Grace.
Every "temple of the Holy Spirit" is born again, and that is because Jesus is IN YOU..."Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory". (Glory is Heaven).
Our Salvation can't end because our Salvation is JESUS in us, and we are joined to Him Spiritually = Born again.
"Not by water or by works but by my SPIRIT sayeth THE LORD".... and He should know as "Jesus is THAT Spirit"...and "God is A Spirit".
Does Jesus ever end? Then neither can your Salvation., who is CHRIST IN YOU
HE is our never ending eternal life who is IN us and we the born again are "IN Christ".
And there is no sin found there.
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Thanks again for the detailed response. I think we are on the same page.
What do you make of this?
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Right.
What do you make of this?
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The Devil is the Sin Nature.
Sin is HIS Nature......demonic.....He is the 'UN-HOLY Spirit" = demon spirits, are fallen angels.
So, when Adam, who was spiritually joined to God, fell......rebelled,.. He changed spiritual fathers.
He became the "fallen nature"......and that is the FALLEN ONE.......Lucifer.
Jesus said i beheld Lucifer FALL as lightning from heaven.
The fallen nature in a. human, the sin nature, the ADAMIC nature, is the nature of the DEVIL.
This is why Jesus said of all unbelievers...."You are of YOUR FATHER. the DEVIL". "and you'll do HIS Lusts (sin)."
The reason we have to be "BORN AGAIN"...is so that we can CHANGE SPIRITUAL FATHER's.
See that?
To be born again Into GOD, is to be born again OUT Of the Devil , who was our spiritual father.
Now, GOD is our Father... if one is not just water baptized and religious.
If you are never born again, then you die, and you go to your spiritual father and God has a place for Him
"HELL is created for the DEVIL and HIS Angels".
The unbeliever goes to DADDY Satan after they DIE.
The Born again go to ABBA FATHER< who is the Father of Jesus.
Welcome To : Salvation.
What im showing you is "Pauline Theology", and not many teach it in these last days.
Some try to fake it, and will bond some of what im showing you with...>"you to work righteousness to be righteous".
That's a deceiver.
And, you can hear a lot about CALVINISM, and , money, water baptism, gifts of the spirit, and works.. in Church.
While you will hear very little about the CROSS, and "the new creation in Christ" which you have to know or you can't exist here. =
= "Christ always gives me the Victory"
= "I can do all things through Christ".
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Does this mean that you are alienated from the Body of Christ, the church?
Meaning, you're not a part of a church fellowship?
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But this scripture says that those who were made sinners (the many) will be made righteous.
And that the one righteous act (the Atonement) resulted in justification and life for all people.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Each believer is the body of Christ.
The body of Christ, is every single born again believer.
Every single born again believer is "the temple of the Holy Spirit"
The Church, the body of Christ..... is not a Denomination.
Denominations are MAN MADE
CHRISTianity, is GOD made.
St. SteVen, there are NO Denominations in Heaven.
God is not a Catholic, or a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a CALVINIST. What is your denomination? God is NOT That. Jesus is NOT That. Paul is not THAT.
See all that? That is MAN MADE. = Denominations.
And my Local assembly of Messianic Believers is in Israel.
Is your local assembly somewhere in the USA?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
By one man's sin........that is ADAM.....>He sinned.....and that became the fall of us all into the ADAMIC nature.
By one man's Righteousness.....That is JESUS, who is the 2nd ADAM......we are given by His CROSS, access back into God's Spirit, by being born again into it by the Holy Spirit.
Yes.
How's the weather?
It must be interesting to have Palm Sunday, Good Friday, and Easter (resurrection day) in Israel.
Chadrho
Active Member
The ones who need to know God's love most get tortured for not receiving the gift of grace.
Perhaps they chose evil over good? Is that what a truly rational creature with freedom would do?
Choice A: The good that leads one to fulfillment and the life for which one was created.
Choice B: The evil for which one was not created that leads to misery and sorrow.
Hmm, I think I'll go with B because it's what I really desire and promises fulfillment and life!
Only someone whose freedom and cognitive abilities are damaged, or someone tricked into believing a lie, would make that choice. Nonetheless, they must endure eternal torment because God loves them.
Access back?
Not what this says.
Notice the "just as" and "so also" statements. (bold below)
Meaning, "in the same way".
Also notice the "resulted" statements. vs 18 (bold below)
And...
"through the disobedience of the one man..." vs 19
"through the obedience of the one man..." vs 19
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Behold
Well-Known Member
right now Israel is really dangerous, due to a brand new """ situation"""" involving a "invaded" Islamic Mosque that perpetrated 40 missiles being launched against Israel that caused Netanyahu to fire back.
Even this very day the Gov told all Israeli's who have a hand gun permit, to "carry your gun". Not, "think about it". but "carry it".
So, in these last days, with Putin and China and Iran loading up the Missiles on the Lebanon and Syrian boarder to try to destroy Israel, as the "ukraine war" keeps all eyes "over there" and distracted........ and as the USA economy is collapsing, so that the Global economy can also collapse which brings in the Son of Perdition...
So yeah, its an interesting time to be alive, no matter where you are on the globe
=
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Only someone whose freedom and cognitive abilities are damaged, or someone tricked into believing a lie, would make that choice. Nonetheless, they must endure eternal torment because God loves them.
Hell is just a destination for the unbeliever.
If you go to hell, you chose it..... you chose to go there.
Did not God offer His Son so that you can CHOOSE to go to heaven?
So, blaming God for the CHOICE an unbeliever makes is to not understand what you are saying.
God honors free will.. God HONORS your choices you make.
If you CHOOSE to die a Christ REJECTOR, never born again..... then GOD honors your choice.
THe DANMED. John 3:36........ Do not go to heaven.. But there is a place reserved for them, and they Chose it.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Adam lost spiritual relationship with God.
2nd Adam, Jesus, died on the Cross so that by His Life, sacrificed, we can be restored to Spiritual Union (born again) with God.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
Yea. I'm hoping that, when I get to Heaven, God will let me help him to torture the bad people; it sounds like fun!Only someone whose freedom and cognitive abilities are damaged, or someone tricked into believing a lie, would make that choice. Nonetheless, they must endure eternal torment because God loves them.
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