Acts 7:5 which is contrary to Genesis 13:15. Which parts of the scriptures do we need to believe?
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Acts 7:5 which is contrary to Genesis 13:15. Which parts of the scriptures do we need to believe?
Dustykitten
Member
Given his remarks maybe Jay Ross did too.
This is an older thread. Any news on the new planned updated version hitting the market as yet?
Well that is the good thing with the KJV.. is because the translation is very accurate.. the context around the word church.. makes it an assembly or congregation anyway.
But it does matter with the word 'church' .. because doctrine of salvation is attached to it.
So.. many believers have joining 'the church 'at salvation.
That's calling 'the church ' all redeemed.
The thing is .. it's defined one way. The church is the body of Christ. Like you say.
So that means it's a congregation or assembly.
If it is not assembled.. it's not a body.
All redeemed are not assembled. Not yet. We will be with the New Jerusalem in the end. But we aren't there yet.
So... the Body of Christ then must be a local New Testament assembly. Not all redeemed. Not yet.
It has to be assembled to be a body.
So that is why this word matters.
There are many meanings of the word 'church'
Assembly or congregation has one meaning.
Not so. God sees the Church as a Body in Christ even though everyone may be scattered around the globe. Your reasoning is superficial. When there is a local assembly we do not know who is saved and who is not. But God looks at the globe at a glance and sees all those who are His children. And that is all that matters. Ideally every church should consist of the children of God. But God also allows the tares to remain with the wheat. And no man knows the heart of another.
Thanks for the reply Enoch111
In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul describes the body of Christ.
It's defined by togetherness.. care for each-other.. members feeling each-others problems... one part of the body can't say to another part I am not of you.. etc..
This is language of a tangible.. localised entity. And then..
Paul calls the church at Corinth.. 'ye are the body of Christ'
Paul is calling a local assembly- the body of Christ. And when you go to the Greek.. there is no 'the' in front of 'body of Christ'.. so.. it could be:
'a' body of Christ.
The last thing is.. an actual NT church is always of an assembly of saved, baptised believers. Visitors may be with them.. but the actual church is not the visitors-- it's those saved, baptised members. It isn't a building either. They could have no roof over their head.. such as Jesus and the disciples. But a local church is always believers.
Try and find a church in the NT that had unconverted members. I don't think you'll find it. The only exception maybe Judas with the disciples.. who was most likely never converted. But that would be the exception, rather than the rule.
True. But when you look at Christendom as a whole today, there will be genuine believers even within churches which have gone off the rails. So from God's perspective, each person who has been justified by grace through faith and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb is within the Body of Christ.
I disagree with your understanding.
You are trying to Find Scriptural Contradiction Without CONTEXT consideration.
God PROMISED Abraham and Abraham’s Seed Land to possess.
The PROMISE was given Abraham...BEFORE Abraham Had Any Offspring.
Gen: 13
[15] For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Stephen was Preaching.
Pharisees , scribs, People were listening.
Pharisees began Falsely accusing Stephen of False Preaching.
Acts 6:
[8] And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
[9] Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
[10] And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
[11] Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
[12] And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
[13] And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
[14] For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
[15] And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
Acts 7:
[1] Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
Stephen gives a RECAP from Gods Promise To
Abraham and his Seed.......AND.....Just when it Looks Like the PROMISE might come into fruition.....YET AGAIN.....the Gentile king comes Against the Jews, killing their babies.....AND
....God intervenes.....Moses...of their seed.....Saved
.....To WHAT ADVANTAGE is Moses Saved ......WHEN the Pharisees busy Themselves KILLING THEIR OWN?...
Acts: 7
And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
Acts: 7
[17] But when the time of the promise drew nigh, which God had sworn to Abraham, the people grew and multiplied in Egypt,
Acts: 7
[18] Till another king arose, which knew not Joseph.
[19] The same dealt subtilly with our kindred, and evil entreated our fathers, so that they cast out their young children, to the end they might not live.
Acts 7:
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
[52] Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
[53] Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
The Lesson IS :
Gods PROMISE for Abraham AND his Seed....to possess the Land Promised......HAS NOT “ YET “ come into Frution!
***The PROMISE was GIVEN:
BEFORE Abraham HAD ONE offspring.
***The UNDERSTANDING IS:
The PROMISE SHALL BE FULFILLED....
AFTER ALL of Abraham’s seed HAS become BORN.
THEN SHALL Abraham and his Seed, Possess All the Promised Land!
***WHEN?
* After Gentiles and Jews and All Tribes of Israel “WHO ARE going to, DO SO, Freely Heartfully Choose Confessed Belief IN God AND Jesus the Christ...
* After Gods intervention of His Great Tribulations.
* After Christ’s 1,000 year reign.
* After Judgement Separating the Divided...With and Without God.
* After God Renews the Earth.
* After The New Jerusalem, is Sent Down from Heaven.
* Then Shall Gods PROMISE TO Abraham and his Seed To Possess the Land of the Whole Earth....Come into fruition and Become Fulfilled.
The Promise did not come into fruition in Stephen’s Day....
And Why....is clearly revealed in Scripture.
As long as there ARE men on the Face of the Earth....REJECTING the Holy Spirit....Abraham’s Promise CAN NOT YET Be Fulfilled!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Once they are truly born again they will not remain in said places for ever . They will begin feasting upon the bible
and will soon start seeing the errors . They will try and correct , though many leaders will resist them . THEN
they will realize , its time to come out and gather with those who really do love Christ .
We seen this through all ages . As men became aware , through grace and were learning the scrips
they soon realized the institution they were in had led them astray . They began correcting
and often were met with resistance , even unto blood as such places began to realize
these men were leading folks OUT of the harlots system . SOON it will begin again
under the largest world scourge that has been or ever will be again .
In this past decades the call has been for the largest ecuminical gathering back unto the harlot
and she has made the path more broad , all inclusive , for all . SOON she will grow weary
with those who have not conformed , with those who do warn against her work
and the time for BLOOD will be once again worldwide upon the saints as they cry GOD IS LOVE , Let us rid the earth
of these non conformers who hold to an old outdated book called the BIBLE . ITS COMING ENOCH .
And let no man or woman fear man or what he can do to us . JUST POINT to CHRIST and all sound biblical doctrine
whereby many shall grow wise unto salvation through faith in CHRIST . The true gospel
will not only be seen as in the way of their beloved unity , BUT DEEMED as hate and persecutions against those who preached it
will begin .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We are about to witness exactly where their so called love and tolerance was always leading .
For soon their love and tolerance will be seen for what was always behind it .
As those who fell for the delusion arise and cry against the TRUTH that could have saved them and those who preach said truth .
There will be no tolerance nor love for those who resisted the lie and kept to CHRIST alone in the bible alone .
Even now we see it rising up . As they holler God is love and punch street preachers who wont call them by their pronouns
Even now we see it rising up as christains go into their places , on websites or in churches
and are accused of being judgmental and haters , FOR SIMPLY BRINGING biblical truth and correction .
We see as they allow other religions , their books , homosexuals and etc to preach and to teach
in their churches , saying TOLERANCE
and yet when a man of GOD dares to enter into those chambers to TEACH BIBLICAL TRUTH
THERE IS NO TOLERANCE for those . Folks have no idea that this so called love , so called unity
so called tolerance has led them so far away from TRUTH and now they arise as one AGAINST the very TRUTH
that could have savedthem . ITS RISING and we must not fear man . SIMPLY preach CHRIST
and all biblical doctrine .
For soon their love and tolerance will be seen for what was always behind it .
As those who fell for the delusion arise and cry against the TRUTH that could have saved them and those who preach said truth .
There will be no tolerance nor love for those who resisted the lie and kept to CHRIST alone in the bible alone .
Even now we see it rising up . As they holler God is love and punch street preachers who wont call them by their pronouns
Even now we see it rising up as christains go into their places , on websites or in churches
and are accused of being judgmental and haters , FOR SIMPLY BRINGING biblical truth and correction .
We see as they allow other religions , their books , homosexuals and etc to preach and to teach
in their churches , saying TOLERANCE
and yet when a man of GOD dares to enter into those chambers to TEACH BIBLICAL TRUTH
THERE IS NO TOLERANCE for those . Folks have no idea that this so called love , so called unity
so called tolerance has led them so far away from TRUTH and now they arise as one AGAINST the very TRUTH
that could have savedthem . ITS RISING and we must not fear man . SIMPLY preach CHRIST
and all biblical doctrine .
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
And you dear Taken have not understood what it is that I am suggesting to you. In Genesis 12:1-3 God has told Abraham to Walk in His Earth that He will show Him. God was requiring Abraham and all of his descendants to walk in His Earth according to His ways and not in the ways of the fallen from the Garden of Eden so that they would be able to receive their inheritance of the Earth after the Time of the Final judgement at the end of the Seventh Age.
Your presented context of receiving the "Promised Land" after the final judgement is flawed when you state this: -
Why is your presented context Flawed? Because the possession of the "Promised Land" as defined in Gen 15:17-21, which is part of a solemn sign covenant began to be fulfilled when Israel crossed the Jordan River. Their possession of the Promised Land climaxed during the Reign of Solomon and was slowly taken from them up and until 70 AD when all of Israel had been removed from the Promised Land such that they no longer had possession of any portion of the Promised Land. God in Exodus 20:4-6 warned the Israelites that if they continued to worship Idols then the iniquities of the first two ages of the existence of the Israelites practicing idolatrous worship would be visited on their children and the children's children during the third and fourth ages of the Israelites existence. This we are still witnessing today as the fourth age of Israel's existence has not reached its completion yet. That completion will occur when the Kings of the earth are gathered at Armageddon to be judged for their trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, Israel. In Matt 24:31, Jesus indicated when the fourth age of the existence of the Israelites would end, when he told His disciples to learn the lesson from the Fig Tree, in that when they see the fig tree begin budding, then the Sumer Season would shortly start. God told Abraham in Gen 15:16 that some of his descendants would return to the Land of Canaan in the fourth age of their existence from the time of the Birth of Isaac. This prophecy was fulfilled after 4,000 years had passed.
Now when God begins to gather the Israelites to Himself, He does not gather them back to the Land of Canaan, but rather He plants them in the fertile field of Christ, i.e., Israel, and will teach them on the religion of Christ, i.e. the mountain of Israel/Christ, where they have been scattered too and live throughout the whole earth.
It is at this time that God will renew His Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nations Covenant with israel once more to begin the Great harvest of Souls into the Kingdom of God.
Then at the end of your post you go on to state this: -
In this quote from your post above, you change tact and claim that the inheritance is of the whole earth but limit that possession to just the "land" portion of the earth. Daniel in Dan 7:25 states that the Saints will inherit all of the kingdom under the heavens, which also includes all of the oceans which those kingdoms have dominion over. We either are given possession of the whole earth, or we are not. We cannot have it both ways. The receive this inheritance we are required to live our lives in the manner that God has shown us. There is no other solution available for us to receive God's Promise.
Now without correcting the contextual flaws within our English Translations or to put it another way, within the language translations of the peoples of the earth, it becomes very difficult to present God's context because of the contextual errors contained in the present translations in circulation.
Modernisation of the language of our translation to todays present language usage, without correction of the contextual errors, will not improve the newer Bible translations, if the same contextual errors remain.
It seems to me that we both have the same understanding of God's promises with respect to our future inheritance, but the present translations mean that we have a lot more hoops to jump through to come to that conclusion. What I am suggesting is that we need to remove many of those hoops that we presently jump through so that our salvation is much easier to understand.
Shalom
@Jay Ross
Abraham was given a promise, NOT according to the law.
(No doubt, according to the law, Land Promised to Abraham was, has been, is occupied, by men who are NOT included in Gods Promise to Abraham.)
Men all over the earth are Becoming descendants of Abraham, occupying Land, according to Promise.
Neither God, Nor Abraham, Nor descendants of Abraham ....
Have ALL YET RECEIVED their inheritance....according To PROMISE.
You are stuck on a Spiritual Promise Given By A Spiritual God, not being satisfactory to you according to the Law.
Patience.
God, Abraham, All Abraham’s Faithful Descendants
SHALL RECEIVE their Inheritance, according TO Gods Order and Way.
Glory to God,
Taken
Abraham was given a promise, NOT according to the law.
(No doubt, according to the law, Land Promised to Abraham was, has been, is occupied, by men who are NOT included in Gods Promise to Abraham.)
Men all over the earth are Becoming descendants of Abraham, occupying Land, according to Promise.
Neither God, Nor Abraham, Nor descendants of Abraham ....
Have ALL YET RECEIVED their inheritance....according To PROMISE.
You are stuck on a Spiritual Promise Given By A Spiritual God, not being satisfactory to you according to the Law.
Patience.
God, Abraham, All Abraham’s Faithful Descendants
SHALL RECEIVE their Inheritance, according TO Gods Order and Way.
Glory to God,
Taken
There are some problems with the KJV2000. It leaves some archaic words. It retains the archaic grammar of the KJV. It did away with italics. There are other problems too. So the KJV2000 is not adequate.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Plus I tried to download their PDF file to review it, but it locked up my computer
If that's the case (since frankly I have simply glanced at some of the equivalent verses) then I guess there is need for a proper update. The italics are necessary so that we know what was not in the original texts.
The New Testament uses the Greek word for “Lord” for God’s personal name in the Old Testament when giving a translation out of the OT from Hebrew to Greek (compare Luke 3:4 with Isaiah 40:3 for an example). So what is the problem if the KJV does it when translating from Hebrew to English?
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Just what I said BB, they changed YHWH to Adonai. Ps 110:1 gives you a prime example of the alteration. Here is the KJV and the ASV:
Ps 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool
Ps 110:1 Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
One can see clearly these 2 versions render YHWH differently. These were translated by very educated people, and in all honesty most anyone who has just a mild understanding of Hebrew, can translate it into English rather easily. So one has to wonder why the alteration, especially in a verse that was a prophecy concerning Jesus. Since YHWH is not the same as Adonai, they why did some translators choose to render them both Lord, although they did choose to render YHWH as LORD, to show the designation. In some of those versions in the preface they give an explanation of why they chose to render it that way, but most do not. So it is up to us to examine it for ourselves, and reason on why some choose to render it that way. We live in the age of information and can simply "Google" it many times to see the whys and wherefores of things sir.
Since the word of God itself in its translation of Hebrew to Greek in the NT uses "Lord" for God's personal name in the Hebrew (יְהוָה), it justifies the KJV in doing the same in its translation from Hebrew to English. I do not know of a single occurrence in the NT of any stand alone form of God's personal Hebrew name in a translated quote from the OT that contains the name; when the NT quotes from the OT and that quote contains the name, it is normally changed to the Greek word for "Lord." So the KJV is following this same translation principle of the inspired Scriptures. It is not a problem.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
That is where the mistake lies BB, you perceive that Jehovah's name was not translated that way from the Greek, but perhaps you may not realize that the original writings no longer exist to anyones knowledge, and that many New Testament verses were quoted from Old testament verses that contained the Divine Name. The Bible should be translated as accurately as possible, only added to for understanding. Something as important as God's name should never be altered, especially since calling on His name is a requirement for salvation. Did you see the clear alteration of Ps 110:1? Do you feel that was done deliberately, and if so why do you think the translators did it that way?
Hi Mr. Gwin, it is written, "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever." (Isaiah 40:8) The NT Scriptures, specifically the Received Text, have been preserved by God, and are trustworthy. Therefore, the KJV's use of "Lord" for the divine name "יְהֹוָה" is justified, seeing that God himself did this in the inspired NT quotes of the OT; and it is factually correct to call God "the Lord." Did you read my previous posts? They already answer your questions. Please re-read them carefully if you would like answers. Have you not read that God has magnified his word above all his name (Psa. 138:2)? And Jesus' name is The Word of God (Rev. 19:13).
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