Question on works and faith

[Fether]

I’ve seen many articles and YT videos of Christian’s passionately talking about how we aren’t saved by works. Some go as far as to speak ill of people who value works.

Why is this? Will people who believe works are important to to hell? If a faith teaches that both faith and works are important, are the congregants under condemnation?

 

[Cassandra]

I think they are referring to doing works and counting on them for salvation.
No matter what we do, we cannot be saved by our works. We can only be saved by Jesus.
Once we are saved, we become a new creature and will do good works willingly because we love the Lord, and want to do his will. It is not something we do because we have to. It is something we do out of love.

 

[Fether]

I think they are referring to doing works and counting on them for salvation.
No matter what we do, we cannot be saved by our works. We can only be saved by Jesus.
Once we are saved, we become a new creature and will do good works willingly because we love the Lord, and want to do his will. It is not something we do because we have to. It is something we do out of love.

Wouldn’t a person who is doing works already have faith and be covered under the grave of God?

 

[Cassandra]

Not necessarily.
Each person can perform a Christian work--Example:let's say,a ministry for homeless people. There is a person there that is there because he wants to look like he has a relationship with the Lord,but he doesn't have one, or his wife is in the homeless ministry and wants him there as well (sorry for the stupid hypothetical). There is another who is there because he loves the Lord and wants to help his fellow man in this way. Which one is accepted as the work of the new creature in Christ?

There are people in the church who appear to do good works but are not truly saved.
Matt 7:22-23
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Fether]

Not necessarily.
Each person can perform a Christian work--Example:let's say,a ministry for homeless people. There is a person there that is there because he wants to look like he has a relationship with the Lord,but he doesn't have one, or his wife is in the homeless ministry and wants him there as well (sorry for the stupid hypothetical). There is another who is there because he loves the Lord and wants to help his fellow man in this way. Which one is accepted as the work of the new creature in Christ?

There are people in the church who appear to do good works but are not truly saved.
Matt 7:22-23
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

thank you! So it’s more about the idea of doing good works before men to receive praise rather than to glory God?

how would we explain James 2:14-26


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also (KJV)

This seems to suggest that works are just as important as faith. One without the other is pointless. Am I missing something or misinterpreting it?

 

[Triumph1300]

In my opinion Cassandra said it correctly.
Works come as a result of salvation.
Works will never replace what Christ did for you at the cross.

 

[Cassandra]

Good works will follow those who love the Lord and are saved by Him.
You must be saved. Then you become a new creature in Christ, and will WANT to do His will because you love Him.
Love is an active verb. You do things for those you love.

Love is the fulfilling of the Law.

You cannot say that you love someone, and let it be passive. It manifests itself.

You can also be a pretend Christian, and do works but no faith behind it. And you know where that goes. "I never knew you."

 

[Fether]

In my opinion Cassandra said it correctly.
Works come as a result of salvation.
Works will never replace what Christ did for you at the cross.

Good works will follow those who love the Lord and are saved by Him.
You must be saved. Then you become a new creature in Christ, and will WANT to do His will because you love Him.
Love is an active verb. You do things for those you love.

Love is the fulfilling of the Law.

You cannot say that you love someone, and let it be passive. It manifests itself.

You can also be a pretend Christian, and do works but no faith behind it. And you know where that goes. "I never knew you."

Would it be safe to say that both are equally important? If someone is seeking faith and work, would not both come more quickly and naturally? Building one builds the other

 

[Triumph1300]

Will people who believe works are important to to hell?

Not if they are "born again Christians".

 

[Triumph1300]

Would it be safe to say that both are equally important?

One follows the other.
In other words: After being Born Again you desire is to follow Christ by being Christ Like.

The whole point is that works will not bring salvation.
Only acceptance of Christ will save you.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Ephesians 2:9

We are saved==9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Fether]

One follows the other.
In other words: After being Born Again you desire is to follow Christ by being Christ Like.

The whole point is that works will not bring salvation.
Only acceptance of Christ will save you.

How do we understand James 2:14-26? It’s suggesting that one can have faith without works, and such people’s faith is dead.

what does this mean?

 

[Fether]

Ephesians 2:9

We are saved==9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

How do we interpret James 2:14-26? It seems to suggest works are important for something. A lack of works leads to dead faith

 

[Cassandra]

Goodness !!

I keep the 10 commandments. The 1st 4 are to God, and the last 6 to your neighbor.
Let's take "Thou not steal." I can keep that law without Jesus, because i know better than to steal. we all can keep that one. We don't want to goto jail. But if I do not steal from others because I love them, that is entirely different.

Jesus magnified the Law, and made it honorable. Through Christ, I can have that love for others. Any works I do are not my own, but Jesus through me. And if they are just being done for show, remember the verse ""Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Theirs are not acceptable, because He did not know them. You must have Christ, and let Him work in you, and good works will result.

 

[Fether]

Theirs are not acceptable, because He did not know them. You must have Christ, and let Him work in you, and good works will result.

I understand why works do not save. I get it. My question now is pertaining to faith without works being dead. what does it mean to have a dead faith?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I’ve seen many articles and YT videos of Christian’s passionately talking about how we aren’t saved by works. Some go as far as to speak ill of people who value works.

Why is this? Will people who believe works are important to to hell? If a faith teaches that both faith and works are important, are the congregants under condemnation?

The Bible is very clear that obedience to God's will does save, numerous verses put obedience before salvation. There is no example of the Bible ever saying obedience earns God's free gift of salvation nor is there is any example of God saving the unrighteous, disobedient, rebellious person. Luther was wrong about his faith only philosophy.

 

[Pearl]

I understand why works do not save. I get it. My question now is pertaining to faith without works being dead. what does it mean to have a dead faith?

Once we are saved by faith then that's when the 'works' begin. They in themselves are not what saves us, they are not our Saviour, but good works come out of that faith that saves us. They come out of our two way loving relationship with God through his Son and powered and instigated by his Holy spirit.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I understand why works do not save. I get it. My question now is pertaining to faith without works being dead. what does it mean to have a dead faith?

Greetings, Fether.

You are about to get a bunch of different opinions on this issue, so just a heads up to ask the Holy Spirit in prayer to teach you right from wrong here.

But in answer to the above question, a dead faith according to James was a faith that was only mouth-professing but didn't actually DO anything. As he said in one place, "be doers of the word, and not hearers only," and as he corrected a bad a example of the "Christian' faith in another, "If a man shall say to his brother, 'Be warned and filled,' but give him no food or clothing, how can faith save him?" In short, it's faking the Christian walk; putting on a Christian act, but not doing the things Christ commands us to do in His word as His followers.

Welcome to the forum, and I hope you find the answers you are seeking through study of His word and through prayer.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

 

[Fether]

Greetings, Fether.

You are about to get a bunch of different opinions on this issue, so just a heads up to ask the Holy Spirit in prayer to teach you right from wrong here.

But in answer to the above question, a dead faith according to James was a faith that was only mouth-professing but didn't actually DO anything. As he said in one place, "be doers of the word, and not hearers only," and as he corrected a bad a example of the "Christian' faith in another, "If a man shall say to his brother, 'Be warned and filled,' but give him no food or clothing, how can faith save him?" In short, it's faking the Christian walk; putting on a Christian act, but not doing the things Christ commands us to do in His word as His followers.

Welcome to the forum, and I hope you find the answers you are seeking through study of His word and through prayer.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

I appreciate your response! I am on a couple faith forums now and am accustomed to differing views.

So my question to this goes back to faith and works. I hear so much demonizing if the works approach and so much focus on being saved by faith and grace… yet it seems based on these responses, works are still very important. Essential even. Why this attack on the works so much? Should we not be promoting both equally?

 

[farouk]

Once we are saved by faith then that's when the 'works' begin. They in themselves are not what saves us, they are not our Saviour, but good works come out of that faith that saves us. They come out of our two way loving relationship with God through his Son and powered and instigated by his Holy spirit.

@Pearl Indeed; as Ephesians 2.10 says - after Paul says 'not or works' in verse 9 - 'we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them'.

Happy new year to you and dh! new avatar also....