Scripture Study of The Immortal Soul (Spirit of Man/Woman)

[MatthewG]

“After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭4:1-2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.” And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[MatthewG]

Revelation 3:21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you understand what a lamb slain means ?

 

[MatthewG]

I won’t answer anymore questions until you answer mine.

 

[ChristisGod]

What’s your ?

 

[MatthewG]

Why don’t you believe Paul? Jesus came back resurrected in his body, also returned in the body he left in. However Paul suggest we will become spiritual bodies.

What do you believe?

 

[face2face]

Daniel 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake some to everlasting life,and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.

I do love the translators note on this verse.

"This verse is the only undisputed reference to a literal resurrection found in the Hebrew Bible"

If the essence of a person wafts up to Heaven while their body has corrupted in the soil why unite them? The Jews always understood the body, mind and consciousness all returned back to the earth.

Proof text:

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job believed in a recreation of himself in his own body!

@MattG your beliefs contradict the OT entirely.

 

[ChristisGod]

The same physical flesh body Jesus was raised from the dead with , a physical human body is what all believers will have in the resurrection, a real physical human body that becomes immortal and incorruptible.

Agree ? Yes or no

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

The same physical flesh body Jesus was raised from the dead with , a physical human body is what all believers will have in the resurrection, a real physical human body that becomes immortal and incorruptible.

Agree ? Yes or no

hope this helps !!!

Okay, I agree with Paul and what he said. Thank you for sharing though, I believe that jesus did raise again just as you said. However Paul revealed truth in spiritual matters so I don’t discredit his wisdom sir.

 

[ChristisGod]

Okay, I agree with Paul and what he said. Thank you for sharing though, I believe that jesus did raise again just as you said. However Paul revealed truth in spiritual matters so I don’t discredit his wisdom sir.

Paul agrees with me , not you lol.

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Blood is the life of both man and animal. In 1 Corinthians 15 it also represents the corruptible body which the bible says cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus resurrected body was no longer corruptible but was a new glorified body of flesh and bones.

Luke 24:39
39 " See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."


1 Corinthians 15:50-51
50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Paul not only states that one of the main tenants of the gospel is the belief that Jesus rose from the dead, but in verse 17, he goes on to say that “if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.” For centuries, Christians have taught and defended the doctrine of the resurrection – teaching that Jesus physically rose in the same human body in which He died. Notice the correlation between the perishable human body and the imperishable resurrected body as described in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44:
“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.”


The Greek term, “soma” for “body” is always used in Scripture to refer to physical nature. Likewise, the term “spiritual” is used in the Scripture to denote “supernatural” behavior—not a “spiritual” essence of being. Thus, the phrase “spiritual body” in the passage above speaks of a “physical supernatural” body—not a “spirit body.” Another example of the term “spiritual” referring to “supernatural” behavior is 1 Corinthians 2:15 where we read, “But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.” The “spiritual” person in both of these passages is behaving in a “supernatural” way, not ontologically transforming “human” essence into “spirit” essence.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”


Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”


As noted earlier, Jesus’ blood provided the atonement for sin. He did not take His “blood” back, but merely resurrected his body of flesh and bones. Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.”


A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:


Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)

Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)

Weak- Powerful (verse 43)

Natural-Supernatural (verse 44)

Mortal- Immortal (verse 53)


The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Corinthians 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17;Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Corinthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.


Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God. (Romans 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul (Genesis 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body (soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life-giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body.


1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

Paul said earlier in the chapter if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven. Soul= immortal, imperishable and Flesh=mortal, perishable.

Now in the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 the perishable (your body now ) with put on the imperishable(body that does not perish). Just as we see with Jesus Resurrected body it is physical, has flesh and bones, the scars from His crucifixion which proves it was the same body but had changed from mortal to immortal.


hope this helps,

 

[ChristisGod]

Daniel 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake some to everlasting life,and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.

I do love the translators note on this verse.

"This verse is the only undisputed reference to a literal resurrection found in the Hebrew Bible"

If the essence of a person wafts up to Heaven while their body has corrupted in the soil why unite them? The Jews always understood the body, mind and consciousness all returned back to the earth.

Proof text:

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job believed in a recreation of himself in his own body!

@MattG your beliefs contradict the OT entirely.

Yes the oldest saint in scripture (Job) believed in a literal , physical , bodily resurrection where he would be with God .

 

[MatthewG]

That’s fine you can believe what you want; it doesn’t make a difference to me personally.

Everyone has their own subjective life and beliefs that is between them and God, sir.

So to debate or try to win an argument is pointless in my eyes.

 

[ChristisGod]

That’s fine you can believe what you want; it doesn’t make a difference to me personally.

Everyone has their own subjective life and beliefs that is between them and God, sir.

So to debate or try to win an argument is pointless in my eyes.

You mean that you are actually unwilling to deep dive into the resurrection which is at the very heart of the gospel and defend it here but you expect people on this forum to believe your views on denying the bodily resurrection . That’s by definition an oxymoron. You better be able to defend your beliefs since you have assumed the role of a teacher with your videos and threads . Expect to be challenged and to defend your beliefs . That’s apologetics 101 and what the Bible requires as per 1 Peter 3:15 and many other passages .

There is a good reason James warns against becoming a teacher because those who do will be judged by God harder then those who have not taken on the role of a teacher .

As the saying goes - if you can’t stand the heat then get out of the kitchen .

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

Nope it’s I believe differently and believe what Paul said about us obtaining spiritual bodies, sir.

You don’t, it doesn’t effect my life personally because you believe otherwise.

You can continue to post all you desire but sorry, I have my beliefs and will stick with Paul and what he said. Not what others think or put together to believe whatever is they are wanting.

So I’ve stated my beliefs you can reject it or accept it, it doesn’t bother me personally.

 

[ChristisGod]

Nope it’s I believe differently and believe what Paul said about us obtaining spiritual bodies, sir.

You don’t, it doesn’t effect my life personally because you believe otherwise.

You can continue to post all you desire but sorry, I have my beliefs and will stick with Paul and what he said. Not what others think or put together to believe whatever is they are wanting.

So I’ve stated my beliefs you can reject it or accept it, it doesn’t bother me personally.

If you deny a physical, bodily, human resurrection then you deny the gospel. Paul spends the entire 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians defending that truth. You are saying the resurrection body is not physical but immaterial. That is heresy, false teaching and is what jehovah witnesses teach as well. Its a false gospel and Paul says if Christ is not raised from the dead then you are still dead in your sins and your faith is useless.

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

You can put words in my mouth brother but that doesn’t make it truth.

Love you either way, I’ve gotten so use to people persecuting me it almost doesn’t matter anymore I’ll keep believing what Paul said, and believe we will receive spiritual bodies.

 

[ChristisGod]

Okay, I agree with Paul and what he said. Thank you for sharing though, I believe that jesus did raise again just as you said. However Paul revealed truth in spiritual matters so I don’t discredit his wisdom sir.

Lets see how Paul uses the word "spiritual " and body below:

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.


Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:


the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

hope this helps,

 

[face2face]

You can continue to post all you desire but sorry, I have my beliefs and will stick with Paul and what he said. Not what others think or put together to believe whatever is they are wanting. So I’ve stated my beliefs you can reject it or accept it, it doesn’t bother me personally.

Wow MattG you find yourself here again and in so short a time? I think it would be right to say 'I have my beliefs and will stick with Paul and what "I think" he said"

You are an example of a modern christian, who has been infected with many fanciful ideas; notions not found anywhere in the text, but you have attached onto these man-made notions with your dear life. The Pharisees ironically had the same issue. Jesus also spoke to the crowds who denied him in John 8 and said "You cannot hear my words" - Christophany said you are not even willing to enter the text....forget about your doctrine and teaching...your problem goes deeper! You don't even try! So you post all this false stuff and when you are shown you are wrong, your response is "well, everyone can do what is right in their own eyes!" which is horrid in the eyes of God. I hate to say this MattG...but you appear weak, and I thinks its whoever taught you these lies gave you a spirit of weakness.

Putting your beliefs to one side, you either enter the Word, seek to understand an alternative view, or you will keep banging your head up against all here.

Here is what will happen. You will start a thread "another" and the same end will be in sight - You say this, however the Bible states this!

Maybe it's time to walk away from what you have been taught and learn again that Gospel of God and it's power?

 

[MatthewG]

That doesn’t make sense so no it doesn’t help sir.

You’re wasting your time.