Spirit-Filled Members: Please Comment

[GodsGrace]

In my view, we compare to Scripture firstly.

Is this what the Bible states, or is this your own rule to follow?

Can you show me where in the Bible we're taught about taking authority over each other? I'm not aware of such a place.

I suppose that is one point of view.

I thought you said it wasn't a good idea. Now I'm confused about what you think.

Much love!

Well, I'm a rather complicated gal.

1. We compare to scripture here. Do we agree on everything?
No? So how do we determine who is correct.

2. It is my own rule to follow that an elder must be present.
I didn't used to believe this till maybe about a year ago. And it was brought
home AGAIN just about a week ago.

3. The bible teaches that the Apostles were to teach.
They had the authority to forgive sin.
They had the authority to heal.

NOT all of us have this authority.
Has anyone laid hands on you to give you this authority?

I can think, just off hand, of two times I heard prophecy spoken.
Both times it was from the one in charge of the proceedings.

I also know of one time that someone followed the prophetic word of someone and ended up homeless. I believe @Willie T might remember this person. (He's OK now).

 

[Willie T]

So you let yourself be swayed....by the wind; this way and that way.
Be strong.
Let your YES be yes.
And your NO be no.

Nope! I ain't gonna name any names. They already beat up on me enough over there, and the mods have banned me four times in the past.... Not for saying anything wrong, but because someone complained that my bluntness hurt their feelings. I really believe that is truly the most sensitive bunch of people online.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope! I ain't gonna name any names. They already beat up on me enough over there, and the mods have banned me four times in the past.... Not for saying anything wrong, but because someone complained that my bluntness hurt their feelings. I really believe that is truly the most sensitive bunch of people online.

Well welcome to the club!
I can't post on the catholic forum because of that dumb turtle with the wagging tail.
And one of the admin is a calvinist and he can't take my firmness, so he banned me twice already.

I ain't goin' back!
What fer?
So I can'ts speak my mind?

What a bunch of cry babies. I agree with you.
It's called flaming and goading...anything could be flaming and goading.

It's a catch all.
No wonder they're always looking for mods...
they don't last long! From the pressure....

 

[Nancy]

If God could speak through a donkey then...

 

[marks]

Well, I'm a rather complicated gal.

1. We compare to scripture here. Do we agree on everything?
No? So how do we determine who is correct.

2. It is my own rule to follow that an elder must be present.
I didn't used to believe this till maybe about a year ago. And it was brought
home AGAIN just about a week ago.

3. The bible teaches that the Apostles were to teach.
They had the authority to forgive sin.
They had the authority to heal.

NOT all of us have this authority.
Has anyone laid hands on you to give you this authority?

I can think, just off hand, of two times I heard prophecy spoken.
Both times it was from the one in charge of the proceedings.

I also know of one time that someone followed the prophetic word of someone and ended up homeless. I believe @Willie T might remember this person. (He's OK now).

It sounds like you are saying these are your ideas, not that there is a place in the Bible that teaches us to take authority over each other.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

It sounds like you are saying these are your ideas, not that there is a place in the Bible that teaches us to take authority over each other.

Much love!

I don't have any ideas of my own.

Everything I know is biblical because it was taught to me by two different churches and I might or should add a third.

I didn't say we're to take authority over each other.
I said:
IF there is any prophecy spoken,,,it must be with an authoritative figure present.
So should I have posted
Mathew 28:19-20
John 20:23
Mathew 10:1
2 Corinthians 10:8

And most important of all:
Acts 8:19

Need more?
There are more.

We do not all have the same authority.
Elders, pastors, priests, etc.
have more than we do.

 

[marks]

I don't have any ideas of my own.

Everything I know is biblical because it was taught to me by two different churches and I might or should add a third.

I didn't say we're to take authority over each other.
I said:
IF there is any prophecy spoken,,,it must be with an authoritative figure present.
So should I have posted
Mathew 28:19-20
John 20:23
Mathew 10:1
2 Corinthians 10:8

And most important of all:
Acts 8:19

Need more?
There are more.

We do not all have the same authority.
Elders, pastors, priests, etc.
have more than we do.

Boy I wish people would post the passages, in context, and not just a list of references. Oh well. I'll do the work again.

In saying we aren't to authority over each other, you seem to negate that when you refer so some being "authority figures".

OK, let's start with this one:

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Can you show me the part here that teaches that we are to claim authority over each other? Or how this presents some as "authority figures" over others?

I'm not seeing it.

Thank you in advance!

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

Boy I wish people would post the passages, in context, and not just a list of references. Oh well. I'll do the work again.

In saying we aren't to authority over each other, you seem to negate that when you refer so some being "authority figures".

OK, let's start with this one:

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Can you show me the part here that teaches that we are to claim authority over each other? Or how this presents some as "authority figures" over others?

I'm not seeing it.

Thank you in advance!

Much love!

When I first started posting on forums I used to TYPE the verses!
Then I learned that they come up in blue and if you put the cursor on it, the verse automatically comes up. Have you tried this??

Mathew 28:19
Jesus told THE APOSTLES to go and teach and baptize.

He didn't tell ALL of His disciples, and He had very many disciples at this time.
We can't really know how many, but maybe in the hundreds.

And, I said we DO NOT have authority over each other.
YOU have no authority over ME.

I think you mistyped.

 

[marks]

When I first started posting on forums I used to TYPE the verses!
Then I learned that they come up in blue and if you put the cursor on it, the verse automatically comes up. Have you tried this??

Mathew 28:19
Jesus told THE APOSTLES to go and teach and baptize.

He didn't tell ALL of His disciples, and He had very many disciples at this time.
We can't really know how many, but maybe in the hundreds.

And, I said we DO NOT have authority over each other.
YOU have no authority over ME.

I think you mistyped.

Hi GG, some of your references hyperlink, others don't. I simply prefer to be looking at the text of Scripture which someone is using to support their view at the same time as I'm reading their view. But that's just me.

Let me try asking the same question a different way . . .

You've mentioned "authority figures". Who are they? How is it that they have authority over others?

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GG, some of your references hyperlink, others don't. I simply prefer to be looking at the text of Scripture which someone is using to support their view at the same time as I'm reading their view. But that's just me.

Let me try asking the same question a different way . . .

You've mentioned "authority figures". Who are they? How is it that they have authority over others?

Much love!

I'll try to remember to post the verse.

I think I said who the authority figures are:
Pastors
Elders
Priests
Deacons

This does NOT mean that we have to agree with everything they say.
However, it's been my experience lately that if an authority figure is NOT present, some discussions turn into arguments.

Women are rather good at arguing...
I had a bible study in my home about 3 years ago and one of the women in our "click" said she would't participate unless a priest was present.

Now I understand why.

SOMEONE MUST have the authority to say:
STOP! And proclaim who is right ACCORDING TO WHICH DENOMINATION is being represented. In my case it was the catholic denomination, but it could have been any.

(I'm not catholic in doctrine).

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You actually found something "profound" at CF? LOL

Yeah--the guy who wrote the OP at CF was kind of clueless.

 

[marks]

Women are rather good at arguing...
I had a bible study in my home about 3 years ago and one of the women in our "click" said she would't participate unless a priest was present.

Now I understand why.

SOMEONE MUST have the authority to say:
STOP!

I understand where you are coming from. I suggest only that the Bible is the final authority.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand where you are coming from. I suggest only that the Bible is the final authority.

Much love!

Oh. You mean that authority?

Well, of course.
Is there another??
LOL

I meant human authority.
The human authorities do tend to keep things in order.

In the states, in a Nazarene church, we girls had bible study at a different girls home every week or month, can't remember. THAT was nice. We were well-trained by the pastor, we had all taken a dicsipleship course, and it worked out really well.

Here, this would be impossible.

 

[Helen]

The church should encourage body life in connection with God. What needs to be nurtured is that we are members one of another.

There is no ministry that can replace one's own connection to God. Jesus is the only Mediator. The head of every man is Christ.

This is not to confuse the truth that there IS authority in the church. The authority of a specific anointing to overseership from the Holy Spirit. But not an authority to have dominion over the faith of others. We are to be helpers...spiritual helpers...of one another.

Yes agree.

The first line of your post is what I find lacking in the maturing of the Body.
"Every joint supplying.."

I do remember back in England my husband and I were prayed over by an old Pastor who had groomed us for 10 years to take over from him.
But we felt the Lord leading us to start a church in the town we lived in ( we had moved during those years since we had been saved, to a different place. )
He blessed us and let us go. The church grew quickly ...
We had a lady in her mid 50 who got saved, and because we preached about the gifts in action and every joint supplying...she started to share what "God was giving her".
Some of it was 'way off'.... but when we were just about to tell her that she was not hearing clearly from the Lord, but was sharing a mixture . A mature minister with wisdom , that we had invited in to do some meetings, told us not to squash her....he felt that she had an 'open access' , but, because she was so newly saved, she did not know yet how to discern which was coming from the Lord, and which was not. We would have missed it a mile if we had squashed her.

We took her aside and gave some teaching...
We knew later that if we just "shut her down" just because she was more off than on.....she could never have grown or matured into the clear prophetic.

I do not see nurturing in the body of Christ. I see the body top heavy with ministry who feel that 'they' have all the answers...yet they prepare no one to step into their shoes.

A good teacher is someone who is willing and intent on doing them selves out of a job, for the Body's sake. I think the church is weak because the old guards have passed on , but only weaklings to replace them....because they believed that "they had the word of the Lord for the body"...so they themselves did everything that they felt needed doing in the church.
A lack of Timothy's....

Just my two cents...

 

[Hidden In Him]

That is the literal translation, "spirits of prophets to prophets is being subject", or, to match the English order, "spirits of prophets is being subject to prophets".

I think the key is the context.

1 Corinthians 14
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

As a complete thought, I see this teaching us that more than one prophet can speak, and (literally) others are to judge, from diakrino, more evaluate.

If you are speaking, yield to another. All can have their opportunity, but in order, the spirits of the prophets is subject to the prophets, God does not create confusion, but you can all control yourselves, so that all may prophecy, and all learn, and all be comforted.

So I think it teaches us that each who prophesy are able to control themselves so that order is maintained, and no one dominates.

Much love!

The more I think this construction over in the Greek, the more I think you are absolutely correct here, marks.

The best way to communicate the meaning of this construction into English is "When they gather together (collectively), the spirits of the prophets is (collectively) being subjected to the prophets." It is not so much about each prophet's spirit being subject to itself but about each prophet being subject to the spirits of the other prophets as the Spirit leads each to communicate in turn, whether in giving utterance or speaking forth revelation. This fits perfectly with the rest of the passage, since what is commanded is that if one receives a revelation, the other should fall silent and give heed to what the spirits of the prophets is speaking next (collectively). It essentially just means everyone is subject to the Holy Spirit as HE commands, but it lays stress on the cooperation of the entire gathering in fully yielding to the Holy Spirit in full obedience and following His leading perfectly, moment by moment : )

This alters one thing I assumed about the passage: It implies that those receiving the revelation concerning prophecies are likewise the prophets themselves, since the verse is specifically about prophets yielding to prophets throughout.

 

[marks]

It is not so much about each prophet's spirit being subject to itself but about each prophet being subject to the spirits of the other prophets as the Spirit leads each

Actually, perhaps I didn't write well. My thinking is that it means that if I am speaking as a prophet, I am advised that I can control my spirit, and shut myself up to yield to another, and that this is true of all prophets. No nonesense like, "It was divine utterance . . . I couldn't help myself."

Another fail!



Much love!

 

[marks]

I do not see nurturing in the body of Christ. I see the body top heavy with ministry who feel that 'they' have all the answers...yet they prepare no one to step into their shoes.

A good teacher is someone who is willing and intent on doing them selves out of a job, for the Body's sake. I think the church is weak because the old guards have passed on , but only weaklings to replace them....because they believed that "they had the word of the Lord for the body"...so they themselves did everything that they felt needed doing in the church.

Kind of my 2 cents also.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Actually, perhaps I didn't write well. My thinking is that it means that if I am speaking as a prophet, I am advised that I can control my spirit, and shut myself up to yield to another, and that this is true of all prophets. No nonesense like, "It was divine utterance . . . I couldn't help myself."

Well then we actually disagree, but no harm no foul, LoL. Maybe your not "writing it well" was actually the Spirit writing it better than you could have yourself.

Ha! : )

 

[ScottA]

I just read through a profound discussion going on at CF over how the gifts of prophecy should be governed in the church. I gave a response just a second ago. Thought it might be something we should talk through as well. Relevant to the future of the end-time church.

Blessings in Christ.
@amadeus, @"ByGrace", @Josho, @Triumph1300, @lforrest, @Heart2Soul, @Episkopos

Help with 1 Cor 14:32

First...Paul's words were and are approved as authoritative by the providence of God over His word through these many generations (which no man could do).

By Paul's word there are indeed prophets during these times, and there is an order placed over them. That order indicates that there are competing [evil] spirits also at work during these times.

As for the spirit of the prophets being subject to the prophets: by this means providence remains with God regardless of the evils of men. Evil men prolong the days, but it is God who decides what is allowed until all is fulfilled.

 

[marks]

Well then we actually disagree, but no harm no foul, LoL. Maybe your not "writing it well" was actually the Spirit writing it better than you could have yourself.

Ha! : )

Um . . . I was being polite . . . Not to take that back . . . But wanting to be clear . . .

I do not believe this verse sets up one in authority over another, or some kind of "self-policing caste" within the body of Christ.

Rather it teaches that all prophets are, each of them, all able to control their own spirits.

Much love!