The Absurdity of Preterism

[Heb 13:8]

I thought Acts 2:16-17 said "the last days" began 2,000 years ago, and that they were already in them then. How does it work that we are supposedly still waiting for them to begin?

Prophesying and dreams are extreme right now, and some might say Acts 2:20 is referring to the blood moons of 2014-15. Preterist are dumb and blind to what's really going on in the heavens. They don't want talk about this...

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...i264j0i131i67j0i20i264j0i22i10i30.JTA2jrFgMJg

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...i71j0i22i30j0i131i20i264j0i131i67.RwB-yc-sPmo

https://www.google.com/search?q=rev...7j35i39j0l4.4706j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1......1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i20i264.Mdnf-SSFD7E

 

[Enoch111]

I thought Acts 2:16-17 said "the last days" began 2,000 years ago, and that they were already in them then. How does it work that we are supposedly still waiting for them to begin?

We are not still waiting for the last days to begin. So we need to see these distinctions:

The Last Days (plural) -- from the 1st to the 2nd coming of Christ

The Latter Times -- just before the 2nd coming of Christ (current)

The Last Day (singular) -- a period after the 2nd coming of Christ until the Last Judgment (future)

 

[Enoch111]

You want your fellow dispensationalists to stick their head in a dark hole in the ground so that they're not challenged in their satanic doctrine.

This is called bearing false witness -- clearly a sin against the brethren.

Since you don't have a leg to stand on, hurl wild accusations and hope they stick. Pathetic. Just like the Left-Liberals today.

You have yet to prove that we are in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

 

[Vexatious]

This is called bearing false witness -- clearly a sin against the brethren.

In another thread, I asked how does the dispy pretrib rapture doctrine that the rapture is imminent not make God a liar. You replied, in part, "By definition, that means it is NOT guaranteed to happen within a specific time period. Christians who had this "Blessed Hope" had it in the first century."

You give a FALSE definition of imminent, that it doesn't mean imminent (your only fig leaf for you naked falsehood is your insertion of "specific time period"). Then you ignore what I pointed out, that given your doctrine, the Christians in the first century had a FALSE hope, a lie, that God told them to expect a rapture that God knew wasn't coming. Reiterating your claim that they had hope doesn't begin to address the accusation that your doctrine lied to them, is inescapable as a lie, and is therefor of Satan.

You and Jesus are against each other regarding who the Jews are. Jesus says their of their father the devil. You say their father is God. Your doctrine teaches that Jews are saved apart from Christ, therefor you teach that there is salvation in the rejection of Jesus, by becoming a Jew. What's not totally satanic about that?

Your doctrine teaches that Jews are God's chosen people apart from Jesus. Dispies like Scofield and Hagee practically trumpet that Jews are saved without Jesus. And, every time a dispy declares "all Israel will be saved", what do they mean other than there is salvation in the rejection of Christ?

Your doctrine leads to the death of more people than any other false doctrine today, by contributing to middle-eastern wars. It is lies covered with blood.

 

[Nancy]

If you're making a list, you'd start with your strongest point as #1. And, this is your best shot at "preterism"? ROTFL You argue the Roman-Jewish war of 66 to 73 AD wasn't the worst tribulation of all time? Yet, you present no worse tribulation, especially by any relevant measure. How absurd can something be if you can't show even one example of it being wrong?

Dispensationalism is completely absurd, and if I made a list of its absurdities, I'd have a hard time picking one absolute absurdity over another. But, I'll try.

1. Jesus told the Jews they were of their father the devil. Dispensationalists say the Jews God's chosen people.

If I made a list of reasons Dispenasalism is satanic, I'd have the same problem, which of all the complete satanism is the most satanic. But, I'll try:

1. Jesus told the Jews they ere of their father the devil. Dispensationalists say the Jews God's chosen people.

"Jesus told the Jews they ere of their father the devil." Why would you make such a blanket statement? Jesus was speaking to the Jews who wanted Him crucified! I'm pretty sure He was not speaking to His 12 apostles...who were Jews.

 

[Nancy]

This is called bearing false witness -- clearly a sin against the brethren.

Since you don't have a leg to stand on, hurl wild accusations and hope they stick. Pathetic. Just like the Left-Liberals today.

You have yet to prove that we are in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

If THIS is the New Heavens and the New Earth, then it seems Jesus has left the building, and has no control over all the sin and violence

 

[Dave L]

There is actually an International Preterist Association from whose web site I have obtained this quote (so that none may say that I am misrepresenting them): “Preterist” means past in fulfillment, and “Futurist” means future in fulfillment. Preterist basically means the opposite of Futurist. Futurists believe most end-time prophecies (especially the big three events — the Second Coming, Resurrection, and Judgment) are yet to be fulfilled. Preterists believe that most or all of Bible Prophecy (especially the big three events) has already been fulfilled in Christ and the on-going expansion of His Eternal Kingdom...The final events of the redemptive drama came to pass in the first century within the apostles’ generation (before A.D. 70). Christ’s kingdom is here now. Paradise has been restored in Christ (for our afterlife in heaven above). Christ has conquered all His enemies and has given us His Eternal Kingdom, “of the increase of which there shall be no end” (Isaiah 9:6-7).
http://www.preterist.org/about-us/what-is-preterist-view/

Got Questions further clarifies this absurd view: According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment... The “new heavens and new earth” spoken of in Revelation 21:1 is, to the preterist, a description of the world under the New Covenant. Just as a Christian is made a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17), so the world under the New Covenant is a “new earth.” This aspect of preterism can easily lead to a belief in replacement theology...The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18).
https://www.gotquestions.org/preterist.html

Some even believe that Preterism is heretical, although it is more laughable, bizarre, and absurd than anything else: On the other hand, there is a form of preterism that is quite heretical. This theory argues that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. Nothing remains on the prophetic calendar. This radical preterism was championed by James Stuart Russell (1816-95), a Congregational clergyman in England. Russell authored a book titled, The Parousia, (from a Greek word meaning “coming” or “presence”), which first appeared in 1878. Russell set forth the idea that the second coming of Christ, the judgment day, etc., are not future events at the end of the current dispensation. Rather, prophecies relating to these matters were fulfilled with Jerusalem’s fall in A.D. 70. There is, therefore, no future “second coming” of Christ. Moreover, there will be no resurrection of the human body. Also, the final judgment and the end of the world have occurred already—with the destruction of Jerusalem. Advocates of this bizarre dogma claim that the preterist movement is growing wildly. It probably is expanding some—though likely not as prolifically as its apologists would like everyone to believe.
The Menace of Radical Preterism

The absurdities of Preterism exposed:
In order to see how totally bizarre Preterism is, we simply need to review the events described in the book of Revelation (and the Olivet Discourse) from chapters 6 onwards, and see that none of them has occurred as yet.


Now we could go right through until the end of the book of Revelation, and discover that none of those things have occurred. If indeed we were living in the New Heavens and the New Earth, none of the heavenly bodies would be in existence, and there would be ABSOLUTELY no sin, no evil, no sickness, no sorrow, no wars, no terrorists, no criminals, no lying politicians, no plagues, and no death upon this earth. Only perfect and everlasting righteousness. Since what we see presently on earth is THE EXACT OPPOSITE, we know that Preterism is absolute rubbish.

Both Preterism and Futurism are in error. Jesus was Amillennial and Revelation only makes sense if approached from that position.

 

[Willie T]

We are not still waiting for the last days to begin. So we need to see these distinctions:

The Last Days (plural) -- from the 1st to the 2nd coming of Christ

The Latter Times -- just before the 2nd coming of Christ (current)

The Last Day (singular) -- a period after the 2nd coming of Christ until the Last Judgment (future)

Now, isn't that convenient? LOL. I swear, I haven't seen such a desperate attempt at rationalism from even the Democrat or Republican congress.

 

[Enoch111]

You give a FALSE definition of imminent, that it doesn't mean imminent

Here is the dictionary definition of imminent:
imminent adjective

UK /ˈɪm.ɪ.nənt/ US /ˈɪm.ə.nənt/
likely to happen very soon:

"Likely" does not mean "guaranteed" which is exactly what I said. Christ could have come for the saints at any time in the 1st century, or He could do the same in the 21st century. And you say that I give a false definition of imminent, which is a falsehood right there.

the Christians in the first century had a FALSE hope, a lie

Another falsehood from you. Christ had specifically said to those Christians to watch and be read for He could come at any hour. Therefore it was NOT a false hope, so stop inventing lies.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Mt 24:42)
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. (Mt 24:44)
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. (Mt 25:13)

You and Jesus are against each other regarding who the Jews are. Jesus says their of their father the devil. You say their father is God. Your doctrine teaches that Jews are saved apart from Christ, therefor you teach that there is salvation in the rejection of Jesus, by becoming a Jew. What's not totally satanic about that?

Again, you are lying through your teeth, so this is the last response which I will give to a vexatious liar.

1. I did NOT say that "the father of unbelieving Jews is God". You made that up.

2. I did NOT say that "Jews are saved apart from Christ". Another lie.

3. I did NOT even imply that "there is salvation in the rejection of Jesus by becoming a Jew". Another lie.

So it is your blatantly lying post that is Satanic.

 

[bbyrd009]

Since what we see presently on earth is THE EXACT OPPOSITE, we know that Preterism is absolute rubbish.

or that you have a bad eye at least, right

who is "we" there? ty

 

[Vexatious]

Here is the dictionary definition of imminent:
imminent adjective

UK /ˈɪm.ɪ.nənt/ US /ˈɪm.ə.nənt/
likely to happen very soon:

"Likely" does not mean "guaranteed" which is exactly what I said.

If the Rapture wasn't going to happen for 2000 years, then it isn't "very likely" to happen before that. The pretrib doctrine makes God a liar, because dispy doctrine itself is nothing but lies from the father of lies. Besides, "imminent" isn't from the Bible, and none of the verses dispies point to say "likely".

Another falsehood from you. Christ had specifically said to those Christians to watch and be read for He could come at any hour. Therefore it was NOT a false hope, so stop inventing lies.

You are referring to Jesus saying no man knows the "day or hour". Jesus said within his generation. In that context, in those chapters, listen up dispy, Jesus did not say anything that even remotely hints at a pretrib rapture, not even in the twisted minds of dispies, and he didn't indicate that anything he said was "soon"! And, he was talking about the judgment on Jerusalem, not the rapture lie. You are refuted in so many ways. Your doctrine is as flaming lie.

1. I did NOT say that "the father of unbelieving Jews is God". You made that up.

2. I did NOT say that "Jews are saved apart from Christ". Another lie.

3. I did NOT even imply that "there is salvation in the rejection of Jesus by becoming a Jew". Another lie.

So it is your blatantly lying post that is Satanic.

How many times have you heard Satan speak through a Dispensationalist saying "Jews are God's chosen people" referring to unbelieving Jews? Answer: frequently, and without ever saying "[unbelieving] Jews of their father the devil." So, why do you say I made it up?

You, yourself, may compromise dispy doctrine, but the leading dispies such as Scofield (the founder of dual covenant dispesationalism) and Hagee put forth no claim that Jews need Jesus to be saved. Your fellow dispies (other than "messianic Jews" make no effort to evangelize to Jews in Israel, showing what they really believe, which is not what you claim here. And, what do dispies mean "all Israel will be saved" (code for all Jews) if you don't mean Jews don't need Jesus?

 

[Helen]

I thought Acts 2:16-17 said "the last days" began 2,000 years ago, and that they were already in them then. How does it work that we are supposedly still waiting for them to begin?

Because there is a 'beginning of the end' and' the beginning of the end of the end'...which is where I think we are...and then THE END.
If He said He was Coming soon...then soon to Him is not our soon!! His "twinkling" is not our twinkling.

 

[Helen]

@Willie T Plus Willie... If as He said a thousand years is 'as a' day, ....and a day 'as a' thousand years.... then we are only in the dawning of the Third day... the day of resurrection.

 

[Willie T]

Yes, Helen, you seem to understand what a confused mess I believe we have made of many of the words we randomly snatched from God's Bible.

 

[Vexatious]

"Jesus told the Jews they ere of their father the devil." Why would you make such a blanket statement? Jesus was speaking to the Jews who wanted Him crucified! I'm pretty sure He was not speaking to His 12 apostles...who were Jews.

Jesus made that "blanket" statement. You have a problem with it because of your Antichrist Dispensationalist doctrine. Jesus said to the Jews, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here." The fact that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus is not the reason Jesus gave for saying the Jews are of the devil. Jesus' Apostles were not Jews, in the sense Dispies use the term, but Christians are the real Jews.

Antichrist Dispensationalist doctrine teaches that the children of Satan, who deny Jesus is the Christ, are God's people. Christianity teaches that no one comes to the Father but through Christ.

 

[Vexatious]

Because there is a 'beginning of the end' and' the beginning of the end of the end'...which is where I think we are...and then THE END.
If He said He was Coming soon...then soon to Him is not our soon!!

Dispensationalism is a lie that makes God a liar. Soon does mean soon. God didn't say "soon" while meaning something else.

Jesus said, before the crucifixion, that the tribulation would happen within his generation. He did NOT say it would be "soon". Going by what Jesus said, 40 years is too long to be "soon" (the time from Jesus statement to when it came to pass), let alone the dispy lie that 2000 years is soon.

Revelation, written almost 40 years after the crucifixion, repeats words like "soon" and "at hand", because at that time, the tribulation was starting.

The "last days" started at Pentecost (so says Peter) and the last days ended in 70 AD. Jesus didn't mean the last days of the planet, but the last days of the Old Covenant system. That's why when Jesus foretold of the destruction of the temple, the disciples understood it to be the end of the age.

Go read Luke 21, and cast aside the dispy lies you've been taught.

 

[Helen]

Dispensationalism is a lie that makes God a liar. Soon does mean soon. God didn't say "soon" while meaning something else.

Jesus said, before the crucifixion, that the tribulation would happen within his generation. He did NOT say it would be "soon". Going by what Jesus said, 40 years is too long to be "soon" (the time from Jesus statement to when it came to pass), let alone the dispy lie that 2000 years is soon.

Revelation, written almost 40 years after the crucifixion, repeats words like "soon" and "at hand", because at that time, the tribulation was starting.

The "last days" started at Pentecost (so says Peter) and the last days ended in 70 AD. Jesus didn't mean the last days of the planet, but the last days of the Old Covenant system. That's why when Jesus foretold of the destruction of the temple, the disciples understood it to be the end of the age.

Go read Luke 21, and cast aside the dispy lies you've been taught.

God bless you too!!

...

 

[Dave L]

One big problem with Futurism is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. So in the supposed "millennium", you have only saints in glorified bodies (Gog and Magog) for Satan to rally against the rest of the saints in glorified bodies when the 1000 years end.

 

[Naomi25]

Can anyone tell me what the purpose of Prophesy was throughout the Bible? I mean what did God always say He was having a Prophet speak His words to accomplish?

This is a good question, and I think it sort of cuts through the rubbish of "futurist, preterist..." blah, blah, blah. They're all man made labels. What does God say?

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. -Luke 24:27

For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. -2 Corinthians 1:20–22

So...I think what it boils down to here is...for the "futurists"...the bible is NOT all about Israel and God's dealings with her. It's about Jesus. All the promises and prophecies? They were about and fulfilled in Christ. And only when he returns will everything be fully consummated.
For the Preterists, it seems to say that if we have been given the Holy Spirit now as a "guarantee", that suggests that there is more yet to come. If it were all we were getting now, in this age, then it would say we had been sealed in "fulfillment", rather as a guarantee.

 

[ScottA]

There is actually an International Preterist Association from whose web site I have obtained this quote (so that none may say that I am misrepresenting them): “Preterist” means past in fulfillment, and “Futurist” means future in fulfillment. Preterist basically means the opposite of Futurist. Futurists believe most end-time prophecies (especially the big three events — the Second Coming, Resurrection, and Judgment) are yet to be fulfilled. Preterists believe that most or all of Bible Prophecy (especially the big three events) has already been fulfilled in Christ and the on-going expansion of His Eternal Kingdom...The final events of the redemptive drama came to pass in the first century within the apostles’ generation (before A.D. 70). Christ’s kingdom is here now. Paradise has been restored in Christ (for our afterlife in heaven above). Christ has conquered all His enemies and has given us His Eternal Kingdom, “of the increase of which there shall be no end” (Isaiah 9:6-7).
http://www.preterist.org/about-us/what-is-preterist-view/

Got Questions further clarifies this absurd view: According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment... The “new heavens and new earth” spoken of in Revelation 21:1 is, to the preterist, a description of the world under the New Covenant. Just as a Christian is made a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17), so the world under the New Covenant is a “new earth.” This aspect of preterism can easily lead to a belief in replacement theology...The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18).
https://www.gotquestions.org/preterist.html

Some even believe that Preterism is heretical, although it is more laughable, bizarre, and absurd than anything else: On the other hand, there is a form of preterism that is quite heretical. This theory argues that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. Nothing remains on the prophetic calendar. This radical preterism was championed by James Stuart Russell (1816-95), a Congregational clergyman in England. Russell authored a book titled, The Parousia, (from a Greek word meaning “coming” or “presence”), which first appeared in 1878. Russell set forth the idea that the second coming of Christ, the judgment day, etc., are not future events at the end of the current dispensation. Rather, prophecies relating to these matters were fulfilled with Jerusalem’s fall in A.D. 70. There is, therefore, no future “second coming” of Christ. Moreover, there will be no resurrection of the human body. Also, the final judgment and the end of the world have occurred already—with the destruction of Jerusalem. Advocates of this bizarre dogma claim that the preterist movement is growing wildly. It probably is expanding some—though likely not as prolifically as its apologists would like everyone to believe.
The Menace of Radical Preterism

The absurdities of Preterism exposed:
In order to see how totally bizarre Preterism is, we simply need to review the events described in the book of Revelation (and the Olivet Discourse) from chapters 6 onwards, and see that none of them has occurred as yet.

1. There has been no Great Tribulation as described by Christ – a totally unique event, which has never occurred and will never occur again: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning o...

Hahaha...seems there's a 'ism name for everything.

I am not a Preterist, but what then is the 'ism for "slain before the foundation of the world" - Preworldism?

It's pretty bad when people just come up with another 'ism when they don't understand the true meaning of the scriptures. Not a good bandwagon to get aboard.