The beliefs of the early Chiliasts were the antithesis of modern Premil

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covenantee

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The Amillennialist misses out on the joy and anticipation that the scriptures bring.

Paul didn't miss out.

This joy didn't and doesn't need your millennium.
  1. Romans 5:11
    And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Romans 14:17
    For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Romans 15:13
    Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Romans 15:32
    That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. 2 Corinthians 1:24
    Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  6. 2 Corinthians 2:3
    And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  7. 2 Corinthians 7:4
    Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  8. 2 Corinthians 7:13
    Therefore we were comforted in your comfort: yea, and exceedingly the more joyed we for the joy of Titus, because his spirit was refreshed by you all.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  9. 2 Corinthians 8:2
    How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  10. Galatians 5:22
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  11. Philippians 1:4
    Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  12. Philippians 1:25
    And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  13. Philippians 2:2
    Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  14. Philippians 2:17
    Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  15. Philippians 2:18
    For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  16. Philippians 4:1
    Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  17. Colossians 1:11
    Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  18. Colossians 2:5
    For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 
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Taken

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No. That is false. I clearly said I WOULD NOT.
Would not does not mean can not.

Stop deflecting to juvenile nonsense.
You want 26 individual scriptures addressed, You quote them then ask your question. Not interested in your foolishness.
 

Timtofly

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Do you believe there will be mortals on your millennial earth?
Do you believe there will be sin on your millennial earth?
Do you believe there will be sinners on your millennial earth?
Do you believe there will be sickness on your millennial earth?
Do you believe there will be decay on your millennial earth?
Do you believe there will be corruption on your millennial earth?
Do you believe there will be rebellion on your millennial earth?
No, there will not be any dead people in the Millennium. The word mortal means dead. So that word does not describe those living in the Millennium. Why are we using Greek mythology to explain Scripture? You all are great at seeing dead people walking around on earth today. Using the term mortal is just that. We all are dead people. We are Adam's offspring.

None of Adam's offspring are in the Millennium. The sheep were changed, given permanent incorruptible physical bodies. The wheat was sown in dishonor, and harvested into life eternal, given permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Those beheaded were given the first resurrection, a physical life in a permanent incorruptible physical body.

These people are not dead, so calling them mortal is ignorant, obnoxious, and just plain rude. They are not glorified, and living in Paradise with the glorified church. That would be rude of God to let glorified people and non glorified people live together.

These people are the firstfruits of Second Coming, and chosen directly by King Jesus. Jesus is not reigning for a thousand years over an empty earth. Those glorified cannot procreate. However those firstfruits will have dozens of generations of offspring. That is what ruling until all things are brought under subjection. Just like Noah stepping off the Ark and subduing earth all over again, the Millennium will start out with the firstfruits of the final harvest per Matthew 13, and the earth will be subdued over the next 1,000 years.

So Amil can stop being heroes and "save the future", by calling it the here and now, because quite frankly it is disgusting to make a time without sin and Satan, and call that the past 1992 years of sin, Satan, and death.

And no, there won't be any funerals when some young person decides to disobey to see if they can get away with it. No one will honor their memory, because they will be considered cursed, and not fit to even live. Sin will not enter the world and cause all humanity to be punished from one person's disobedience like Adam.
 

Timtofly

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Doubt you're going to get an answer, but I believe God will never authorize such a place to be built. God wants his people to focus on Jesus first and foremost if they want Gods presence to swell with them. I meant to say dwell but swell sounds pretty good.:D.

God may allow this event to happen , so he can destroy it suddenly forever in the end for rejecting and apostatizing such a Gracious majestic salvation that he provided in Jesus all those years ago when he comes again.
Well Jesus declared He will sit on a glorious throne, and call souls out of all nations. That throne is in His Temple as described in Revelation 11. This chapter and Matthew 25 clear up Zechariah 14 and the change that is coming to Jerusalem both geographically and the center of the Lord's reign on the earth.

But obviously Amil explain this all away as having been fulfilled and ended in the first century. Obviously that was never recorded by any historian. Nothing will ever destroy the change made at the 6th Seal when Jesus returns, and His feet touch down on the mount of Olives. The throne and temple will never be destroyed. Jesus will hand back a glorious throne and a well built temple, and then all will return to God from where it came from. Not destroyed, just simply all becoming God. At the same instant a NHNE will come into existence as if nothing happened. Those on earth will simply watch the New Jerusalem descend from heaven as part of the wonder of this new reality. Paradise will instantly transform into the New Jerusalem. The old earth will simply fade and replaced by a new earth and it will happen instantly around both those on earth and in heaven. John describes it as the old fleeing away, and the new as if it was always there.

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

No one dies or experiences pain in the transition. John was standing there on earth, watching the old fade away and the new happen immediately.

Of course John got to see the dead cast into the LOF. I don't think any on earth or in Paradise get to see that. I am sure most have the opinion all stand before God then, but that is not what John wrote. The dead are dead. Those on earth and in Paradise are not the dead. Nor does John write that the church gets to watch the dead. Only John is allowed that view.

The dead don't get to see the transition of the old to the new. All they see is the GWT, and the LOF. I am pretty sure John would have declared and the living got to see this judgment, if that is what happened. There is no joining of the 2 events as happening at different times, but simultaneously. Either you are at one event or the other, not both at the same time. In fact outside of reality between the two creations, there would be no time at all. There is no sense that those glorified in Paradise and those living on earth lost any time, nor were taken out of time waiting for God to create a new reality.

The dead were no longer in reality, as death and sheol themselves stopped being created places, and were totally separated from and emptied out and then tossed into the LOF outside of time itself. They were no longer part of creation, especially not that which returned to God as the all in all. The dead and the LOF along with Death and sheol were not made part of God, as Paul described. They were outside of time and creation in their own reality apart from the old heaven and earth, and the NHNE.
 

WPM

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No, there will not be any dead people in the Millennium. The word mortal means dead. So that word does not describe those living in the Millennium. Why are we using Greek mythology to explain Scripture? You all are great at seeing dead people walking around on earth today. Using the term mortal is just that. We all are dead people. We are Adam's offspring.

None of Adam's offspring are in the Millennium. The sheep were changed, given permanent incorruptible physical bodies. The wheat was sown in dishonor, and harvested into life eternal, given permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Those beheaded were given the first resurrection, a physical life in a permanent incorruptible physical body.

These people are not dead, so calling them mortal is ignorant, obnoxious, and just plain rude. They are not glorified, and living in Paradise with the glorified church. That would be rude of God to let glorified people and non glorified people live together.

These people are the firstfruits of Second Coming, and chosen directly by King Jesus. Jesus is not reigning for a thousand years over an empty earth. Those glorified cannot procreate. However those firstfruits will have dozens of generations of offspring. That is what ruling until all things are brought under subjection. Just like Noah stepping off the Ark and subduing earth all over again, the Millennium will start out with the firstfruits of the final harvest per Matthew 13, and the earth will be subdued over the next 1,000 years.

So Amil can stop being heroes and "save the future", by calling it the here and now, because quite frankly it is disgusting to make a time without sin and Satan, and call that the past 1992 years of sin, Satan, and death.

And no, there won't be any funerals when some young person decides to disobey to see if they can get away with it. No one will honor their memory, because they will be considered cursed, and not fit to even live. Sin will not enter the world and cause all humanity to be punished from one person's disobedience like Adam.

I sense your desperation to sanitize your millennium and portray it as something it is not. What you are presenting is pure fiction. I suspect you know that. The evidence of such is highlighted in the fact you fail to present one single Scripture to support your portrayal. That is damning to your presentation.

You do not even seem to know what the word mortal means. It does not mean "dead," it means subject to death. Big difference!

What is more, Christians who receive incorruptible physical bodies is actually glorification. Hello! Where does it teach otherwise? Where in the Bible does it teach that those who are beheaded are given the first resurrection, a physical life in a permanent incorruptible physical body, and are then capable of procreating? Really? That is fanciful! You are dishonestly dissecting the people of God up to support your error. This is gerrymandering and adding unto Scripture, which is strictly forbidden.

This leaves you with a major problem. This leaves you avoiding the elephant in the room. Your so called sinless millennium is saturated with billions of wicked who overrun it as the sand of the sea. Why do you keep insisting on no sin or sinners when your millennium is overrun with billions of sinners sinning who are Satanists, who hate Christ and His people?

This temporary age you advocate is so corrupt that it needs replaced 1000+ years after its inception, swamped by billions of stiff-necked rebels who become instant Satan worshippers after supposedly suffering 1000 years of Christ's righteous rule.

How can there be no one sinning when your millennium is full of billions of carnal people? It is full of widespread disobedience and rebellion. It is full of "cursed" people. Despite this, you claim "there won't be any funerals." Wow! You add: "No one will honor their memory." This is total nonsense! Where does it teach this in Scripture? So they die, but are not buried? They are left to rot and no one will bury them. What a joke! Who taught you this?

You claim: "Sin will not enter the world and cause all humanity to be punished from one person's disobedience like Adam." What? Your future millennium is saturated with sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, corruption and decay followed by the greatest uprising in history against Christ and the saints (as "the sand of the sea").

The reality is: your perfect blissful Eden-like paradise is in fact a bust. It is fanciful. It will never happen. The Premillennial millennium descends into chaos and anarchy at the end as the millennial inhabitants wholesale reveal their true allegiance. They swiftly switch their feigned allegiance to Christ to the true veneration of their father Satan at the drop of a hat. Revelation 20:7-9 says, “when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea … they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city.”
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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The portrayal you paint cannot be found in Rev 20. It is an illusion.
No, which is why I gave a long partial list of scriptures. Of course, one must possess the Spirit for proper discernment. It is baffling to me, Amillennialists just take most if Revelation and these other scriptures and disassociate them, with symbolic mbo jumbo that sounds like an intellectual LSD trip.
The kingdom that you anticipate is a sin-curse, goat-infested, death blighted fiasco. We have the biggest religious turn-around in history: from a millennial kingdom where the nations wholesale supposedly submit to Christ in righteousness (as Premils portray) to a mass revival of Satanism as "the sand of the sea."

No, what we will have is a better reality than the world has ever experienced, Paradise reborn - without Satan to tempt us because he is locked up. Remember it is the Jews who are grafted into the vine ( Romans 11), but this happens after the first resurrection. They repopulate the earth partially with any post-rapture Christians that have survived the Great Tribulation/ the wrath of God.
The Millennial Kingdom is also a covenant with Israel (the bloodline from the tribes). This is the Era that the former Jews were mistaken about. They expected the Messiah to take over the Romans and the world and rule as King when He came 2000 years ago. They misunderstood His purpose then. He will return and this time, defeat His foes and be King _ in Jersualem. I don't know if you just deny all those scriptures or what you do with them, but you are missing a whole chapter in God's plan. The 144k male virgins in Rev. 7 & 14 and Rom. 11 confirms that God is not finished with the Jews yet. I guess in your heart, you are done with them. Antisemitism flourishes out of Catholicism, who typically are preterists. God knows the bloodlines if the twelve tribes - we don't and have lost tract of them.
So it will be 7th millennium and a second chance for Israel. I think much of the Great Tribulation is both a test and judgment for Israel, since we see that many nations come together to attack Jerusalem at this time. Watch what happens in the coming months.

This has to be the greatest falling away in history. It is the biggest religious deception in history. It is the most pronounced religious circus in history. It
I see a falling away happening, but it is not coming from the faithful Christians who are hoping and anticipating His coming. The falling away of those with weak faith, those whose seed has been planted in shallow soil, fall when tribulation comes. They're listening to false prophets who deliver Satan's lies and turn away from Christ. They in turn follow the deceptions of the New World Order, get in line and receive the Mark of the Beast. Be careful - don't get in that line!

So much for the perfect pristine paradise of unparalleled, historic and wholesale submission to the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Premil millennium!!!
You are a very expressive writer. It sounds intellegent,, but read right through your sophisticated garble. Lots of fancy words, no substance. Maybe you are a Democrat as well, behind this NWO, a socialist movement, hailing guys like Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab and the elite, Left Wing world leaders.Those are Satan's workers.

Also, you have the lion and lamb enjoying millennial bliss until the slaughter truck pulls up to drag the lambs, goats and bullocks to the temple in Jerusalem for sacrifice in the presence of Jesus.
I don't see animal sacrifice going on in the MK. Why would that be necessary with the Sacrificial Lamb presently ruling, Who already made the once and for all sacrifice?
I think all that is left is the sacrifice of praise and worship, our time and devotuon,, our love.
But hey, how is you life? Do you have the joy of the Lord? Is life good for you. In your mean spirited and derogatory post, it doesn't seem like the fruit of the Spirit is flowing through you? Hope you experience much love. There is too much hate in this world now.
 
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WPM

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No, which is why I gave a long partial list of scriptures. Of course, one must possess the Spirit for proper discernment. It is baffling to me, Amillennialists just take most if Revelation and these other scriptures and disassociate them, with symbolic mumbo jumbo that sounds like an intellectual LSD trip.

What you are presenting has no basis in Scripture. That is why you cannot support any of it by the inspired text. You just repeat what you have been taught, without checking it out if it is in fact so in the Scriptures.

Where does Revelation 20 teach that the earth in view is "Paradise reborn"? That is a Premil invention!

Where did Jesus teach that - it is the Jews who are grafted into the vine that repopulate the earth ... with any post-rapture Christians that have survived the Great Tribulation and wrath of God"? What you reference is Romans 11 that speaks about an olive tree. You do not seem to know the difference.

Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that the "Millennial Kingdom is ... a covenant with Israel (the bloodline from the tribes)? Why do you keep forcing your beliefs on the sacred text?

This is the Era that the former Jews were mistaken about. They expected the Messiah to take over the Romans and the world and rule as King when He came 2000 years ago. They misunderstood His purpose then. He will return and this time, defeat His foes and be King _ on Jersualem. I don't know if you just deny all those scriptures or what you do with them, but you are missing a whole chapter in God's plan. The 144k male virgins in Rev. 7 & 14 and Rom. 11 confirms that God is not finished with the Jews yet. I guess in your heart, you are done with them. Antisemitism flourishes out of Catholicism, who typically are preterists and Im not sure what your ilk is. God knows the bloodlines if the twelve tribes - we don't and have lost tract of them.
So it will be 7th millennium and a second chance for Israel. I think much of the Great Tribulation is both a test and judgment for Israel, since we see that many nations come together to attack Jerusalem at this time. Watch what happens in the coming months.

Talking about "mumbo jumbo that sounds like an intellectual LSD trip." This is all pure fiction. It is pure Dispensatanism.

I see a falling away happening, but it is not the faithful Christians who are hoping and anticipating His coming. The falling away of those with weak faith, those whose seed has been planted in shallow soil, falk when tribulation comes. They listening to false prophets who deliver Satan's lies and turn away from Christ. They in turn follow the deceptions of the New World Order, get in line and receive the Mark of the Beast. Be careful - don't get in that line!

Whatever way you package it up: you have billions of phonies who are playing at it in your millennium. This is after Jesus being in their midst ruling with "a rod of iron" unchallenged for 1000 years? You have a millennial kingdom filled with phonies supposedly submitted to the leadership of Christ wholesale turning from Him to Satan at his very appearing. This is surely the greatest and swiftest religious turn-around in history. Billions as the sand of the sea jump camps. How could they do this? After all: Jesus is supposed to be reigning in all His glory and majesty with a rod of iron along with the saints in their glorified bodies. These must be the most crooked, deceived, bull-headed, stubborn, stiff-necked and blinded company of humans ever to live. This is an incredible bust. It is a debacle. So much for the righteous reign of Christ on this earth. So much for the submission of the nations. The reality is: most of what Premils attribute to Revelation 20 doesn't exist. It is foisted on the inspired text.

You are a very expressive writer. It sounds intellegent,, but read right through your sophisticated garble. Maybe you are a Democrat as well, behind this NWO, socialist movement, hailing guys like Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab and the elite, Left Wing world leaders.Those are Satan's workers.

Why do you resort to such nonsense? Why are Premils so bitter? Name-calling and false charges do not advance your case. They destroy it. Obviously, you're running out of arguments.

I don't see animal sacrifice going on in the MK. Why would that be necessary with the Sacrificial Lamb presently ruling, Who already made the once and for all sacrifice?
I think all that is left is the sacrifice of praise and worship, our time and devotuon,, our love.
But hey, how is you life? Do you have the joy of the Lord? Is life good for you. In your mean spirited and derogatory post, it doesn't seem like the fruit of the Spirit is flowing through you? Hope you experience much love. There is too much hate in this world now.

You obviously have nothing. Ad hominem is where many Premils online normally gravitate when their theology is exposed, and shown to be extra-biblical. Very sad! Please look in the mirror!
 
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Truther

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That is your private interpretation. The Bible does not say that. The terms the sheep,” (vv 32-33) them on his right hand,” (v34) ye blessed(v 34) and “the righteous” (vv 37 & 46) are seen to be synonymous in this parable. The wicked on the other hand are simply deemed “the goats” (vv 33 & 34), “them on the left hand” (v 41) or “ye cursed” (v 41).
However,....

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me....

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
 

WPM

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However,....

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me....

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Sheep and goats are judged on how they have treated the apple of His eye - His brethren. That does not mean the goats are believers. I do not know how you can conclude that.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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What you are presenting has no basis in Scripture. That is why you cannot support any of it by the inspired text.
If Rev. 20 was the only reference in the entire Bible of a Millennial Kingdom, I would believe it literally; bit there are many relative scriptures which I presented that you are in denial about. You take most of Revelation and distort it into some symbolic allegory. You read it and I suppose drift off into some abstract realm that you probably got from guys like Hank Hanagraff. Most of Revelation is to be taken literally. FURTHERMORE THE MISTAKE YOUR ILK KEEPS MAKING IS whatever little you take literally ( and don't symbolize), apparently happened already.
Newsflash: Revelation 6 is happening right now.

Where does Revelation 20 teach that the earth in view is "Paradise reborn"? That is a Premil invention!
It doesn't, but this is not the only MK scripture. Need to go over that list I gave, you are in denial.


Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that the "Millennial Kingdom is ... a covenant with Israel (the bloodline from the tribes)? Why do you keep forcing your beliefs on the sacred text?
I recently did a study on thus subject but I doubt you will take it seriously.
The Millennial Kingdom


Whatever way you package it up: you have billions of phonies who are playing at it in your millennium. This is after Jesus being in their midst ruling with "a rod of iron" unchallenged for 1000 years? You have a millennial kingdom filled with phonies supposedly submitted to the leadership of Christ wholesale turning from Him to Satan at his very appearing.
Christians who enter into the MK are not phonies. What happens within the 1000 year period is children are born, born into sin and so must learn, believe, receive the Lord and though it will be a Christian world, filled with the knowledge of God, the rebellious nature flares up. It doesn't take long. Look at Israel's history. Even without Satan to tempt them and with the Lord ruling, people want to go their own way. So it is not those who entered into the Kingdom in the beginning, who know, believe and love the Lord that turn away; it is a portion of those born during this period.
 

WPM

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If Rev. 20 was the only reference in the entire Bible of a Millennial Kingdom, I would believe it literally; bit there are many relative scriptures which I presented that you are in denial about. You take most of Revelation and distort it into some symbolic allegory. You read it and I suppose drift off into some abstract realm that you probably got from guys like Hank Hanagraff. Most of Revelation is to be taken literally. FURTHERMORE THE MISTAKE YOUR ILK KEEPS MAKING IS whatever little you take literally ( and don't symbolize), apparently happened already.
Newsflash: Revelation 6 is happening right now.


It doesn't, but this is not the only MK scripture. Need to go over that list I gave, you are in denial.



I recently did a study on thus subject but I doubt you will take it seriously.
The Millennial Kingdom



Christians who enter into the MK are not phonies. What happens within the 1000 year period is children are born, born into sin and so must learn, believe, receive the Lord and though it will be a Christian world, filled with the knowledge of God, the rebellious nature flares up. It doesn't take long. Look at Israel's history. Even without Satan to tempt them and with the Lord ruling, people want to go their own way. So it is not those who entered into the Kingdom in the beginning, who know, believe and love the Lord that turn away; it is a portion of those born during this period.

So, even though Rev 20 or no other passage supports your claims you still stubbornly insist on it believing it. Sad! You have nothing of evidential worth to bring to the table. All i am dealing with is your opinions. These are totally inadmissible. That sums up Premil. It is extra-biblical.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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This joy didn't and doesn't need your millennium.
I didn't say it was the only and entire source of joy, looking forward to His return! I sad that we have joy and hope in the anticipation of His return. You wasted lots of time with all you wrote.
See, you misinterpret one little thing and then go off on a tangent like knee jerk reaction. "OH boy ... I got em now ... Paul found joy... we find joy ... looky at these scriptures! Lol
Yes we do have joy ... I do. And it is not based on the coming Millennial Kingdom.
The world is falling apart fast and so corrupt now ... soon peace will be taken away and our faith will certainly be tested! When thus happens, you will hope that the Lord will soon return and fix this world.
 
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covenantee

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I'd didn't say it was the only and entire source of joy, looking forward to His return! I sad that we have joy and hope in the anticipation of His return. You wasted lots of time with all you wrote.
See, you misinterpret one little thing and then go off on a tangent like knee jerk reaction. "OH boy ... I got em now ... Paul found joy... we find joy ... looky at these scriptures! Lol
Yes we do have joy ... I do. And it is not based on the coming Millennial Kingdom.
The world is falling apart fast and so corrupt now ... soon peace will be taken away and our faith will certainly be tested! When thus happens, you will hope that the Lord will soon return and fix this world.
Explain how 18 Scriptures (and there are more) are a tangent.

It took me all of about 30 seconds to display and extract the list. The Word is never a waste of time.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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So, even though Rev 20 or no other passage supports your claims you still stubbornly insist on it believing it. Sad! You have nothing of evidential worth to bring to the table. All i am dealing with is your opinions. These are totally inadmissible. That sums up Premil. It is extra-biblical.
One more time, Mr. DENIAL.
Messianic prophecies that haven't yet been fulfilled:

Matthew 6:10
Daniel 2:44
Isaiah 9:7
Jeremiah 3:17
Isaiah 11:5-10
Psalm 72:8
Revelation 6 - 22 ( exception - parts of 12 alludes to Israel and Christ's birth)
Matthew 5:5
Zechariah 8:20-23
Zechariah 14:9
Zephaniah 3:9
Habakkuk 2:14
Micah 4
Ezekiel 36:36
Jeremiah 31:34
Isaiah 35:5-6
Isaiah 65:21-25
Isaiah 2:4
Numbers 14:21
Revelation 11:15
1 Thessalonians 4:16
Matthew 24 (partially fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD)

AND a more detailed study:
The Millennial Kingdom

Btw, what does WPM stand for, Without Pre- Millennialism? Worthy Preterist Man?
You are against this so much so, that you make it your primary thrust and purpose to debate and dismantle it. Funny.
 

WPM

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One more time, Mr. DENIAL.
Messianic prophecies that haven't yet been fulfilled:

Matthew 6:10
Daniel 2:44
Isaiah 9:7
Jeremiah 3:17
Isaiah 11:5-10
Psalm 72:8
Revelation 6 - 22 ( exception - parts of 12 alludes to Israel and Christ's birth)
Matthew 5:5
Zechariah 8:20-23
Zechariah 14:9
Zephaniah 3:9
Habakkuk 2:14
Micah 4
Ezekiel 36:36
Jeremiah 31:34
Isaiah 35:5-6
Isaiah 65:21-25
Isaiah 2:4
Numbers 14:21
Revelation 11:15
1 Thessalonians 4:16
Matthew 24 (partially fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD)

AND a more detailed study:
The Millennial Kingdom

Btw, what does WPM stand for, Without Pre- Millennialism? Worthy Preterist Man?
You are against this so much so, that you make it your primary thrust and purpose to debate and dismantle it. Funny.

None of those passages teach what you are advocating. I suspect you know that. That is why you do not expound them. I will ignore your ad hominem and name-calling. It is petty and unneeded. Premils cannot resist that when their beliefs are exposed.

.. and I do not engage with links. Present your evidence here.
 
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Timtofly

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I sense your desperation to sanitize your millennium and portray it as something it is not. What you are presenting is pure fiction. I suspect you know that. The evidence of such is highlighted in the fact you fail to present one single Scripture to support your portrayal. That is damning to your presentation.

You do not even seem to know what the word mortal means. It does not mean "dead," it means subject to death. Big difference!

What is more, Christians who receive incorruptible physical bodies is actually glorification. Hello! Where does it teach otherwise? Where in the Bible does it teach that those who are beheaded are given the first resurrection, a physical life in a permanent incorruptible physical body, and are then capable of procreating? Really? That is fanciful! You are dishonestly dissecting the people of God up to support your error. This is gerrymandering and adding unto Scripture, which is strictly forbidden.

This leaves you with a major problem. This leaves you avoiding the elephant in the room. Your so called sinless millennium is saturated with billions of wicked who overrun it as the sand of the sea. Why do you keep insisting on no sin or sinners when your millennium is overrun with billions of sinners sinning who are Satanists, who hate Christ and His people?

This temporary age you advocate is so corrupt that it needs replaced 1000+ years after its inception, swamped by billions of stiff-necked rebels who become instant Satan worshippers after supposedly suffering 1000 years of Christ's righteous rule.

How can there be no one sinning when your millennium is full of billions of carnal people? It is full of widespread disobedience and rebellion. It is full of "cursed" people. Despite this, you claim "there won't be any funerals." Wow! You add: "No one will honor their memory." This is total nonsense! Where does it teach this in Scripture? So they die, but are not buried? They are left to rot and no one will bury them. What a joke! Who taught you this?

You claim: "Sin will not enter the world and cause all humanity to be punished from one person's disobedience like Adam." What? Your future millennium is saturated with sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, corruption and decay followed by the greatest uprising in history against Christ and the saints (as "the sand of the sea").

The reality is: your perfect blissful Eden-like paradise is in fact a bust. It is fanciful. It will never happen. The Premillennial millennium descends into chaos and anarchy at the end as the millennial inhabitants wholesale reveal their true allegiance. They swiftly switch their feigned allegiance to Christ to the true veneration of their father Satan at the drop of a hat. Revelation 20:7-9 says, “when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea … they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city.”
First off, it is not my millennium. Is the last 1992 years your millennium?

Why would you say the Day of the Lord is corrupt? Is there a Scriptural basis, or just your private opinion?

Did you think God created a corrupt Garden of Eden? It had a 75% failure rate. It must have been chucked full of sin and goats from the start according to your understanding of Scripture.

According to you, Eden is the exact definition of a 100% bust. There was never an Eden or Paradise on earth. God gave the earth to Satan from day 1.

That is your creation story.

You obviously have nothing. Ad hominem is where many Premils online normally gravitate when their theology is exposed, and shown to be extra-biblical. Very sad! Please look in the mirror!

You have nothing but a constant attacking and mocking Revelation 20:7-9.

That is God's Word. It is not opinion. What is opinion is your belittling what is actually recorded by John. You don't take disobedience seriously, it seems.
 
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WPM

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I'd didn't say it was the only and entire source of joy, looking forward to His return! I sad that we have joy and hope in the anticipation of His return. You wasted lots of time with all you wrote.
See, you misinterpret one little thing and then go off on a tangent like knee jerk reaction. "OH boy ... I got em now ... Paul found joy... we find joy ... looky at these scriptures! Lol
Yes we do have joy ... I do. And it is not based on the coming Millennial Kingdom.
The world is falling apart fast and so corrupt now ... soon peace will be taken away and our faith will certainly be tested! When thus happens, you will hope that the Lord will soon return and fix this world.

But your millennial kingdom is the same old same old. You have the removal of the curse and corruption at the second coming and yet sin, death and decay continues and expands.
 

WPM

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First off, it is not my millennium. Is the last 1992 years your millennium?

Why would you say the Day of the Lord is corrupt? Is there a Scriptural basis, or just your private opinion?

Did you think God created a corrupt Garden of Eden? It had a 75% failure rate. It must have been chucked full of sin and goats from the start according to your understanding of Scripture.

According to you, Eden is the exact definition of a 100% bust. There was never an Eden or Paradise on earth. God gave the earth to Satan from day 1.

That is your creation story.

Congratulations. You just ignored all my points. You have to!
 

covenantee

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The Millennial Kingdom is also a covenant with Israel (the bloodline from the tribes).
God is not a racist. (Acts 10:34-35)

Premil's desperate and incessant attempts will not make Him one.

Here's your "Israel bloodline".

Genetically, the entirety of humanity, after more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion.

Corroborated empirically by the Jewish community itself.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Demonstrated mathematically.

Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

BY CARL ZIMMER

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.
 
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Timtofly

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Sheep and goats are judged on how they have treated the apple of His eye - His brethren. That does not mean the goats are believers. I do not know how you can conclude that.
Neither are the sheep, as they are distinguished from the believers just like the goats.

The sheep are chosen by Jesus, not that they chose Jesus. They were not believers prior to the Second Coming.
 
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