The Coming Great Apostasy

[Earburner]

I counted five (!) in five sentences of your post #222. One or two would be emphasis. Five in five is clearly shouting. Those who get wrapped up in emotionalism demonstrate how weak their arguments are - just like liberal snowflakes who shout down their opposition because they know they can't win in the arena of idea.

Get some "thick skin" and move on with the topic at hand. No one is shouting at anyone. By this site's permission, we have punctuating highlights above, to emphasize our words. If that's shouting to you, then go find shelter.

 

[Earburner]

Looks like you are the only spiritual man left on earth. Sounds cultish to me.

Of course, anyone who feels threatened to think beyond the wall of their doctrines of church-ianity, is going to consider christ-ianity to be cultish.

"There can always be more than one lie,
but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner

 

[Phoneman777]

Here is your dilemma, the " little horn", Antiochus Epiphanes,

he's not the Little horn - which Daniel says was "exceeding great" beyond the "great" ram and the "very great" he goat. Antiochus Epiphenes IV was a pathetic little dweeb who was derogatorily known as "Epemenes" (mad man), was a prisoner and hostage for a time, and he and his entire army were "punked" by a few Roman officials and a scant envoy guard down in Egypt.

rose up from the 3rd beast (Grecian Empire), in the latter time of their empire.

Epimenes the madman arose not during the "latter" time of the Seleucid kingdom, it was "mid-point" time in the succession of all the Seleucid kings, which continued a succession of many other kings.

While he was rising, the 4th 10H Beast (Roman E.) was coming to power also. Therefore, while the 3rd beast was waning, the 4th beast was coming on the world stage.

Which is why the Little Horn is a depiction of a kingdom which was to arise after Greece: ROME, first Pagan Rome by it's horizontal attack and then Papal Rome by its vertical attack toward heaven.

It is not "out of one of them (horns)" from which the Little Horn arises, it is "out of one of them (winds) from which the Little Horn arises, as evidenced by noun/pronoun gender agreement. The gender of the pronoun "them" only agrees with the gender of the noun "winds" - not "horns" - so the verse is simply saying "out of one of the four winds of the compass (West)" which is clear evidence that this next "exceeding great" power is to arise outside of the previous Greek "very great" power. Roman officials condemned our Lord, Roman nails fastened our Lord's hands and feet to the Cross, and a Roman spear pierced His side - you don't get any more "great" against the Almighty than than, and certainly not by sacrificing a stupid pig on a sacred altar, an altar to which the great Sacrifice pointed.

Of a truth, that "little horn" did rise "among them", but he was not of them. Please read the KJV only.

Yes, the Little Horn arose outside the horns of Greece, just as the Little Horn of Daniel 7

 

[Phoneman777]

Correct!
By the words of " the natural man"- 1Cor. 2:14, I did give you the symbolism of how to interpret the words "that man of sin, the son of perdition".
Unfortunately, you are not taking the time to make the association, and would rather teach me with your preconceived, religious regurgitation of commentary from men.

As long as the association we make of the only two "sons of perdition" - Judas and Man of Sin - leads us to correctly conclude that the Man of Sin is the papacy, we've correctly identified the man of sin

 

[Earburner]

Enoch 111 wrote:
"That is a fanciful interpretation. The prophecy speaks of Messiah being cut off, but not for Himself. Which is a reference to the crucifixion. The time between the decree of Cyrus and the crucifixion was 483 years (69 weeks). There is absolutely nothing about Christ's baptism in that prophecy."

> And did you not notice that you only counted to 69 weeks? Jesus Baptism and upto 70 AD is conclusive of the 70th week. BTW I am not SDA, but I do understand the prophecy as being fulfilled. No need to take the 70th week and attach to a fictitious 7yr THE Great Tribulatio

 

[Phoneman777]

Understand Rom. 8:9 first, and then you will know why Judas was "none of His".

You fail to understand that in John 17 JESUS HIMSELF says the only one He lost was Judas, which implies Judas had previously been been safely kept, just like the father of the Prodigal said "my son was lost" which means he'd previously been safely kept.

Judas was casting out demons and healing people by the power of God, which means he had God's spirit, did he not? Or was he doing it by Beelzebub? This is another example of how the Bible disproves OSAS.

You're misapplying Romans 8:9 to say Judas never had part with Jesus, but as I've shown you, Jesus says otherwise.

 

[Earburner]

1. He's not the Little horn - which Daniel says was "exceeding great" beyond the "great" ram and the "very great" he goat.
2. Antiochus Epiphenes IV was a pathetic little dweeb who was derogatorily known as "Epemenes" (mad man), was a prisoner and hostage for a time, and he and his entire army were "punked" by a few Roman officials and a scant envoy guard down in Egypt. Epimenes the madman arose not during the "latter" time of the Seleucid kingdom, it was "mid-point" time in the succession of all the Seleucid kings, which continued a succession of many other kings.
3. Which is why the Little Horn is a depiction of a kingdom which was to arise after Greece: ROME, first Pagan Rome by it's horizontal attack and then Papal Rome by its vertical attack toward heaven.
4. It is not "out of one of them (horns)" from which the Little Horn arises, it is "out of one of them (winds) from which the Little Horn arises, as evidenced by noun/pronoun gender agreement. The gender of the pronoun "them" only agrees with the gender of the noun "winds" - not "horns" - so the verse is simply saying "out of one of the four winds of the compass (West)" which is clear evidence that this next "exceeding great" power is to arise outside of the previous Greek "very great" power.
5. Roman officials condemned our Lord, Roman nails fastened our Lord's hands and feet to the Cross, and a Roman spear pierced His side - you don't get any more "great" against the Almighty than than, and certainly not by sacrificing a stupid pig on a sacred altar, an altar to which the great Sacrifice pointed.
6. Yes, the Little Horn arose outside the horns of Greece, just as the Little Horn of Daniel 7

1&2- AE of the Hellenistic Seleucid Empire is most assuredly the little horn. The 3rd Beast began with Alex the Great, and ended with the 4 horns, which clearly shows it to be "in the latter time of their kingdom" (Grecian-3rd beast). KJV-Dan. 8:23. "Their kingdom" was the 3rd beast.

3. Wrong! The little horn of the 3rd beast rose while the 4th beast was coming to power on the earth. He rose "among them", but was not of them. That is only one of the many errors that the churches have made! You end remarks are only conclusive to your " religious" denominational persuasion. By a long shot, you are not reading deep enough.
Did you know that the books of Maccabees go hand in hand with Daniel, more than Rev.?

4. Both Winds and Horns are symbolic of the "Four Generals" of Alex the Great. They received his Grecian Empire and split it up four ways, of which are known today as "The Hellenistic Kingdoms".
"Exceeding great" ? Yes, let's look at that, and how the churches have messed that up badly.
KJV-Dan.8[9] And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
> Please notice the word "waxed" . In the context of that verse, Antiochus Epiphanes desired to exceed in being great, toward...
He never reached his goal in being famous. However, as becoming infamous, he was, by committing the "AoD".

5. That does not apply to the " little horn", being Antiochus Epiphanes, the only little horn who ever lived, or ever to come again.

6. I agree! Now go back and fix your understanding as I have shown.
And remember, DO NOT mix the visions of Daniel with the interpretations of Gabriel. Read them separately. Only Gabriel is the authority.
And don't forget to study Daniel with 1 Maccabees. Though this is hard for you to grasp, Rev. has little to do with Daniel.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

That is really stretching it. Since the true Church is the Body of Christ, there is absolutely no possibility that Satan or the Antichrist can sit "in the Church". That would be preposterous, since it would require that they elbow out Christ Himself!

Furthermore, Daniel's prophecy about the Abomination of Desolation makes it crystal clear the the Holy Place literally means the Holy Place within the future temple at Jerusalem.

The Reformers were quite mistaken about the Pope being the Antichrist. And the church of Rome is certainly NOT the Church which is the Body of Christ.

I agree with you, for the most part. I do believe though that there are some real Christians in the RCC (few in the hierarchy). The "harlot Church" is comprised of all who say they believe but do not. However, I do not think any particular denomination is pure. As proof, we have the James MacDonald debacle in the Bible-centered, Harvest "denomination". MacDonald and his henchmen apparently just don't "get" what it means to be Christians, in spite of preaching the word every Sunday. They cheated, manipulated and abused their congregations--all for money and the power it brings. It went on for years. They were finally forced to fire MacDonald when a tape of him joking about doing evil to an editor of Christianity Today was released. Other allegations have surfaced about MacDonald "inappropriately touching" female staff members. Harvest Chicago is now $40 million in debt and it is still not clear how much of it went in MacDonald's pocket (judging by his lifestyle, a LOT) or how it was otherwise used. With many members exiting and giving down, it is not clear what will happen. "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You fail to understand that in John 17 JESUS HIMSELF says the only one He lost was Judas, which implies Judas had previously been been safely kept, just like the father of the Prodigal said "my son was lost" which means he'd previously been safely kept.

Judas was casting out demons and healing people by the power of God, which means he had God's spirit, did he not? Or was he doing it by Beelzebub? This is another example of how the Bible disproves OSAS.

You're misapplying Romans 8:9 to say Judas never had part with Jesus, but as I've shown you, Jesus says otherwise.

Judas is an interesting case. Just before he "went out into the night" (a word picture) it was said that "Satan entered him". Since the Holy Spirit does not inhabit the same space with evil spirits, it is unlikely that Judas was ever truly a believer. We have clues throughout the NT that he was not.

 

[bbyrd009]

The amazing name Judas: meaning and etymology

can't import Gsearches I guess, but "Judas scapegoat" has some even more interesting reflections imo

 

[Enoch111]

"There can always be more than one lie,but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner

But you forget to add "AND ONLY EARBURNER HAS THE TRUTH".

 

[Enoch111]

As proof, we have the James MacDonald debacle in the Bible-centered, Harvest "denomination".

Frankly, this is the first that I am hearing about this guy. However, what I was saying is that the Church consists of only those who have been saved by grace,washed in the blood of the Lamb, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. AND ONLY GOD KNOWS who they are.

And Catholics who have been saved COME OUT OF BABYLON. Read Charles Chiniquy's Fifty Years in the Church of Rome. Of course, as usual, the RCC denounces this man, who denounced the RCC. That is because the RCC claims to be the true Church, but that is obviously false. What is even more bizarre is to suggest that the Antichrist literally sits within the Body of Christ, when Christ is the Head of Church.

As I mentioned earlier the title of this thread should be "The Current Great Apostasy" which is leading to the revelation of the Antichrist in the near future. And he will literally sit in the future temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming that he is God. Plans for this temple are under way:

The major focus of the [Temple] Institute is its efforts towards the beginning of the actual rebuilding of the Holy Temple. Towards this end, the Institute has begun to restore and construct the sacred vessels for the service of the Holy Temple.
The Temple Institute: About The Temple Institute

 

[Dave L]

Frankly, this is the first that I am hearing about this guy. However, what I was saying is that the Church consists of only those who have been saved by grace,washed in the blood of the Lamb, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. AND ONLY GOD KNOWS who they are.

And Catholics who have been saved COME OUT OF BABYLON. Read Charles Chiniquy's Fifty Years in the Church of Rome. Of course, as usual, the RCC denounces this man, who denounced the RCC. That is because the RCC claims to be the true Church, but that is obviously false. What is even more bizarre is to suggest that the Antichrist literally sits within the Body of Christ, when Christ is the Head of Church.

As I mentioned earlier the title of this thread should be "The Current Great Apostasy" which is leading to the revelation of the Antichrist in the near future. And he will literally sit in the future temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming that he is God. Plans for this temple are under way:

The major focus of the [Temple] Institute is its efforts towards the beginning of the actual rebuilding of the Holy Temple. Towards this end, the Institute has begun to restore and construct the sacred vessels for the service of the Holy Temple.
The Temple Institute: About The Temple Institute

Scripture? False prophecy unless directly supported by scripture.

 

[Earburner]

I agree with you, for the most part. I do believe though that there are some real Christians in the RCC (few in the hierarchy). The "harlot Church" is comprised of all who say they believe but do not. However, I do not think any particular denomination is pure. As proof, we have the James MacDonald debacle in the Bible-centered, Harvest "denomination". MacDonald and his henchmen apparently just don't "get" what it means to be Christians, in spite of preaching the word every Sunday. They cheated, manipulated and abused their congregations--all for money and the power it brings. It went on for years. They were finally forced to fire MacDonald when a tape of him joking about doing evil to an editor of Christianity Today was released. Other allegations have surfaced about MacDonald "inappropriately touching" female staff members. Harvest Chicago is now $40 million in debt and it is still not clear how much of it went in MacDonald's pocket (judging by his lifestyle, a LOT) or how it was otherwise used. With many members exiting and giving down, it is not clear what will happen. "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."

Regardless of what you think of the RCC, they do teach Christ Crucified, resurrected from the dead, Ascended into Heaven bodily, and shall return in like manner.
The Mother OF Harlots was "Jerusalem that now is".
Even today "Jerusalem" will not accept "her" Savior, the Lord Jesus!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Frankly, this is the first that I am hearing about this guy. However, what I was saying is that the Church consists of only those who have been saved by grace,washed in the blood of the Lamb, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. AND ONLY GOD KNOWS who they are.

And Catholics who have been saved COME OUT OF BABYLON. Read Charles Chiniquy's Fifty Years in the Church of Rome. Of course, as usual, the RCC denounces this man, who denounced the RCC. That is because the RCC claims to be the true Church, but that is obviously false. What is even more bizarre is to suggest that the Antichrist literally sits within the Body of Christ, when Christ is the Head of Church.

As I mentioned earlier the title of this thread should be "The Current Great Apostasy" which is leading to the revelation of the Antichrist in the near future. And he will literally sit in the future temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming that he is God. Plans for this temple are under way:

The major focus of the [Temple] Institute is its efforts towards the beginning of the actual rebuilding of the Holy Temple. Towards this end, the Institute has begun to restore and construct the sacred vessels for the service of the Holy Temple.
The Temple Institute: About The Temple Institute

I agree--it is vital that Christians leave harlot churches. All of the Christians I know who were former Catholics, made the decision to leave it, some sooner, some later. They all said that reading and studying the Bible was what brought them to that decision. Probably why the RCC often actually discourages Bible reading and study.

The Temple will be built. Up til very recently they were unable to find a pure red heifer (its ashes are necessary for consecrating the Temple). It was thought that the original breed was extinct. They are very hopeful that the one they currently have is THE red heifer which will be used. The rabbis are watching it very carefully--if even one white hair shows up in its coat, they have to start the search all over. The cow is currently being kept at a secret location (for obvious reasons). Do you know about the fairly recent discovery of the "Gabriel's Revelation" stone? The two Israeli archeologists who discovered it say that it proves that the teaching of the Messiah being killed and rising on the third day after, was being taught for at least a century before the advent of Jesus Christ. They feel that they were able to date the stone accurately. Belief in Jesus is spreading rapidly in Israel today, even though believers are often persecuted.

Ezekiel is a book of the Bible that will guide them in seeking to build the Temple that he describes in detail. There has never been such a Temple. It will be quite large. One used to be able to go online and take a "virtual tour" through the new Temple. Haven't seen it for a while, not even sure the CGI video is any longer available.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Regardless of what you think of the RCC, they do teach Christ Crucified, resurrected from the dead, Ascended into Heaven bodily, and shall return in like manner.
The Mother OF Harlots was "Jerusalem that now is".
Even today "Jerusalem" will not accept "her" Savior, the Lord Jesus!

Official Judaism does not, but belief in Jesus is spreading rapidly in Israel, like a fire that burns through the underbrush of a forest. Jewish-Christians have formed a political party and they have been promised seats in the Israeli Knesset. We need to pray for them--they are often persecuted.

 

[Enoch111]

Ezekiel is a book of the Bible that will guide them in seeking to build the Temple that he describes in detail.

While this may be the case, the third temple will not be the final temple (which is described in Ezekiel). The reasons being that (1) the Antichrist will desecrate this temple and therefore it will be destroyed and (2) the third temple is not being built under the authority of Christ. So there will be a fourth temple as presented in Ezekiel.

 

[CoreIssue]

Regardless of what you think of the RCC, they do teach Christ Crucified, resurrected from the dead, Ascended into Heaven bodily, and shall return in like manner.
The Mother OF Harlots was "Jerusalem that now is".
Even today "Jerusalem" will not accept "her" Savior, the Lord Jesus!

They amillennialist who teach celebration by works.

The RCC is a cult and the harlot.

 

[Earburner]

You fail to understand that in John 17 JESUS HIMSELF says the only one He lost was Judas, which implies Judas had previously been been safely kept, just like the father of the Prodigal said "my son was lost" which means he'd previously been safely kept.

Judas was casting out demons and healing people by the power of God, which means he had God's spirit, did he not? Or was he doing it by Beelzebub? This is another example of how the Bible disproves OSAS.

You're misapplying Romans 8:9 to say Judas never had part with Jesus, but as I've shown you, Jesus says otherwise.

You misunderstand. No one is born with eternal life or existence of any kind.
Rom. 8:9 says plainly that "whosoever hath not the Spirit of God, aka the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, he is none of His."
Judas died BEFORE the Day of Pentecost.
On the other hand, Peter didn't die, but lived on and upto the Day of Pentecost, and received the Holy Spirit of God. Simply put, Judas died without faith, and was not available in order to receive the Holy Spirit.
Read Rom. 8:9 again and understand that whosoever IS NOT born again by His Holy Spirit, shall NOT enter into the KoG. John 3:3-8.
Therefore, everyone who also dies without the Holy Spirit, they are "none of His".

 

[Earburner]

They amillennialist who teach celebration by works.

The RCC is a cult and the harlot.

And the SDAs are not the same?? When shall you learn that all of "church-ianity" is the same as the Mother- Jerusalem! They do what the Mother did.