The Gospel Plus Nothing

[Robert Pate]

If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel.

Only about 10% of professing Christians know and understand the Gospel, maybe that is why Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. What most have found is religion. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself. The historical Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. His life, His death, His Resurrection, His position in heaven. We are not the instigators of the Gospel; we are the benefactors of the Gospel. The word "Gospel" means good news. It is good news for sinners, but it is bad news for the self-righteous, religious.

In the Gospel God clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. His mission is to come into the world to defeat sin, death and the devil so that whosoever believes in him can be saved, John 3:17. He didn't come into the world to show us the way, he was the way, John 14:6. Jesus was not only God with us, Jesus was also God for us. By his righteous sinless life, he fulfills all of the demands of God's Holy Law. He does this in our name and on our behalf, just like we did it ourselves. This is why Paul wrote, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus not only fulfilled the law for us, but he also abolished the law for us, Ephesians 2:15.

Christians don't need laws, rules or religion, we are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. If you need laws, rules and religion it may be that you do not possess the Holy Spirit, who is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. If we are complete in Christ then who needs religion? Christ and Christ alone is the Christians righteousness. We rest in him, Hebrews 4:10.

The Pharisees said that the Torah was "The way, the truth and the life and was the light that lightens every man" John took what the Jews said about the Torah and applied it to Jesus, John 14:6. Many have made laws, rules and religion their Jesus. This is very sad because they don't really know him. We cannot really know him until we accept him and his Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[amigo de christo]

So we can rule out PROSPERITY gospel , all inclusive gospel .
IF IT AINT THE BIBLICAL GOSPEL . IF IT AINT the BIBLICAL JESUS , HIS TEACHINGS , the APOSTELS teachings .
WELL I SUGGEST WE SHUN IT and fast too . Be encouraged . I KNOW the apostels KNEW THE REAL JESUS CHRIST
even paul did . SO I SUGGEST we take ALL their reminders AS TRUTH .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let us therefore , OPEN BIBLE , READ BIBLE , STAY IN BIBLE , LOVE THEM WORDS .

 

[Randy Kluth]

A lot of truth there. However, debunking religion assumes that it is always corrupt. There is "true religion," and there is "genuine law" in Christianity. We don't just follow the Spirit--we also follow law. Otherwise, none of the NT letters would've been written. They are chalk full of law.

However, you're trying to distinguish, it seems, between "law alone" and "faith." In that case you need to be careful not to suggest that "law" is an unwarranted addition to "faith." Law is actually an attribute of faith, a legitimate "work."

However, much of this is a semantical quagmire, and needs to begin with definitions. And I won't take the time here.

 

[amigo de christo]

A lot of truth there. However, debunking religion assumes that it is always corrupt. There is "true religion," and there is "genuine law" in Christianity. We don't just follow the Spirit--we also follow law. Otherwise, none of the NT letters would've been written. They are chalk full of law.

However, you're trying to distinguish, it seems, between "law alone" and "faith." In that case you need to be careful not to suggest that "law" is an unwarranted addition to "faith." Law is actually an attribute of faith, a legitimate "work."

However, much of this is a semantical quagmire, and needs to begin with definitions. And I won't take the time here.

If one truly follows the SPIRIT , if one truly follows CHRIST , If one truly has the LOVE that cometh of GOD
WELL THEN , that would fullfill and not transgress . Ponder on the beauty of that and
NEVER FOLLOW the all inclusive false love lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

A lot of truth there. However, debunking religion assumes that it is always corrupt. There is "true religion," and there is "genuine law" in Christianity. We don't just follow the Spirit--we also follow law. Otherwise, none of the NT letters would've been written. They are chalk full of law.

However, you're trying to distinguish, it seems, between "law alone" and "faith." In that case you need to be careful not to suggest that "law" is an unwarranted addition to "faith." Law is actually an attribute of faith, a legitimate "work."

However, much of this is a semantical quagmire, and needs to begin with definitions. And I won't take the time here.

Randy , i dont usually ask this of folks . But i would like you to read my statements . THEN Tell me
where You think i am right or might be wrong . Read them .

 

[amigo de christo]

A lot of truth there. However, debunking religion assumes that it is always corrupt. There is "true religion," and there is "genuine law" in Christianity. We don't just follow the Spirit--we also follow law. Otherwise, none of the NT letters would've been written. They are chalk full of law.

However, you're trying to distinguish, it seems, between "law alone" and "faith." In that case you need to be careful not to suggest that "law" is an unwarranted addition to "faith." Law is actually an attribute of faith, a legitimate "work."

However, much of this is a semantical quagmire, and needs to begin with definitions. And I won't take the time here.

THERE indeed is a true religoin . YEP and geuine law .
and the two do not oppose each other . FOR TRUE LOVE , TRUE RELIGOIN , well THAT SERVES GOD , CHRIST
and thus would embrace and love TRUTH .
Many who attack religoin do so for one reason and one reason alone . THE RELIGOIN spoke against THEIR SIN .
Yeah . TRUE THAT IS .
Many who preach against religoin also follow the one world religoin that has been sown under the guise of
love . BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ITS A RELIGION and a false one too .
FOR ITS LOVE sure seems to contradict THE GOD of the bible , THE CHRIST OF the bible , THE TRUTH .
The relgion to unite all religions and atheists has not been asleep . IT and its father and its mother
have been at work . and now in the final and last hour it has grown massive .
It unifies under a lie , under a false love and all to be as one under the dragon .
For more info, start asking questions .

 

[Randy Kluth]

THERE indeed is a true religoin . YEP and geuine law .
and the two do not oppose each other . FOR TRUE LOVE , TRUE RELIGOIN , well THAT SERVES GOD , CHRIST
and thus would embrace and love TRUTH .
Many who attack religoin do so for one reason and one reason alone . THE RELIGOIN spoke against THEIR SIN .
Yeah . TRUE THAT IS .
Many who preach against religoin also follow the one world religoin that has been sown under the guise of
love . BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ITS A RELIGION and a false one too .
FOR ITS LOVE sure seems to contradict THE GOD of the bible , THE CHRIST OF the bible , THE TRUTH .
The relgion to unite all religions and atheists has not been asleep . IT and its father and its mother
have been at work . and now in the final and last hour it has grown massive .
It unifies under a lie , under a false love and all to be as one under the dragon .
For more info, start asking questions .

I kind of enjoyed the way you put that! Thanks!

 

[Randy Kluth]

If one truly follows the SPIRIT , if one truly follows CHRIST , If one truly has the LOVE that cometh of GOD
WELL THEN , that would fullfill and not transgress . Ponder on the beauty of that and
NEVER FOLLOW the all inclusive false love lie .

I agree. To call something "law" seems distant from one whose heart is pure and doesn't need to be told to be kind or compassionate. If that's who you already are, do you need to be told at all?

The original "law" God gave Man was to live in His image, to live after His likeness, and to simply "keep the garden." It wasn't a huge requirement. You just love your family, and expect that over time God will fill the world with your children.

"Law" gets complicated, however, when a foreign spirit enters in to confuse things. It's really a matter of whether you already have the Spirit in your life and whether you listen to the right voice that agrees with that Spirit. If you listen to the wrong voice, what "love" is can get a bit confusing.

We preach Christ to the world, not as a law to get justified but rather, as a law that witnesses to the righteousness of Christ. In accepting him as our God we get the law inwardly and instinctively know whose voice to listen to.

 

[Episkopos]

If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel.

Only about 10% of professing Christians know and understand the Gospel, maybe that is why Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. What most have found is religion. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself. The historical Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. His life, His death, His Resurrection, His position in heaven. We are not the instigators of the Gospel; we are the benefactors of the Gospel. The word "Gospel" means good news. It is good news for sinners, but it is bad news for the self-righteous, religious.

So far so good.

In the Gospel God clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. His mission is to come into the world to defeat sin, death and the devil so that whosoever believes in him can be saved, John 3:17. He didn't come into the world to show us the way, he was the way, John 14:6. Jesus was not only God with us, Jesus was also God for us. By his righteous sinless life, he fulfills all of the demands of God's Holy Law. He does this in our name and on our behalf, just like we did it ourselves.

This is false. Grace empowers us to overcome as He overcame. He didn't overcome INSTEAD of us. That is a false gospel that Paul anathematizes.

This is why Paul wrote, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus not only fulfilled the law for us, but he also abolished the law for us, Ephesians 2:15.

Not so. The law is fulfilled in us who believe....not in Christ...but in WE who walk in Christ.

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Christians don't need laws, rules or religion, we are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. If you need laws, rules and religion it may be that you do not possess the Holy Spirit, who is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. If we are complete in Christ then who needs religion? Christ and Christ alone is the Christians righteousness. We rest in him, Hebrews 4:10.

Yes.

The Pharisees said that the Torah was "The way, the truth and the life and was the light that lightens every man" John took what the Jews said about the Torah and applied it to Jesus, John 14:6. Many have made laws, rules and religion their Jesus. This is very sad because they don't really know him. We cannot really know him until we accept him and his Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God's Holy Court as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Again, this is false, half-true and misleading. We do put on Jesus' perfection IN Him...but most will never enter into Him...to be where He is. Most will CLAIM to be in Him is a generic way...but have never known the walk that is in Him.

 

[Robert Pate]

Let us therefore , OPEN BIBLE , READ BIBLE , STAY IN BIBLE , LOVE THEM WORDS .

The purpose of the Bible is to reveal Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Under the New Covenant everything changed. All rules, laws and religion have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, but only for Christians. Under the New Covenant the just shall live by faith, Romans 1:17.

 

[Robert Pate]

A lot of truth there. However, debunking religion assumes that it is always corrupt. There is "true religion," and there is "genuine law" in Christianity. We don't just follow the Spirit--we also follow law. Otherwise, none of the NT letters would've been written. They are chalk full of law.

However, you're trying to distinguish, it seems, between "law alone" and "faith." In that case you need to be careful not to suggest that "law" is an unwarranted addition to "faith." Law is actually an attribute of faith, a legitimate "work."

However, much of this is a semantical quagmire, and needs to begin with definitions. And I won't take the time here.

When Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the temple was torn from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51, that was the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion. This is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. The reason that Christians live by faith is because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Paul also said that those who continue to live by law are under the curse, Galatians 3:10. If you respond to this please use scripture to do so.

 

[07-07-07]

The purpose of the Bible is to reveal Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Under the New Covenant everything changed. All rules, laws and religion have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, but only for Christians. Under the New Covenant the just shall live by faith, Romans 1:17.

In the Book of Acts, we see an example of what repentance looks like. Fear fell upon the people and they forsook their evil deeds. Many of today's Christians would call that "works" because they have distorted what repentance really entails, which involves forsaking our sins.

Acts 19
[13] Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
[14] And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
[15] And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
[16] And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
[17] And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
[18] And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
[19] Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
[20] So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed. (KJV)

 

[Robert Pate]

So far so good.



This is false. Grace empowers us to overcome as He overcame. He didn't overcome INSTEAD of us. That is a false gospel that Paul anathematizes.

Not so. The law is fulfilled in us who believe....not in Christ...but in WE who walk in Christ.

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



Yes.

Again, this is false, half-true and misleading. We do put on Jesus' perfection IN Him...but most will never enter into Him...to be where He is. Most will CLAIM to be in Him is a generic way...but have never known the walk that is in Him.

It is apparent that you believe in a holiness theology. Most holiness people believe that they can stop sinning because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Paul never taught a holiness theology. Paul confessed that he was a sinner and struggled with sin, Romans 7:7-25.

As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will sin. We still have Adam's sinful nature and we still have Adam's blood flowing through our veins, even though we know that we have been crucified with Christ, Romans 6:6. We only have the "First fruits of the Spirit" Romans 8:23. Which is the down payment. When we become totally sanctified in Jesus Christ then we will be perfect as he is perfect. That has not happened yet but will happen when he appears, Colossians 3:4.

Because of the indwelling Holy Spirit we are able to live better lives than the unsaved. But we are still sinners, saved sinners. Jesus left us here on this earth in our Adamic bodies so that we can reach others for Christ. Paul said, "I can be all things to all men that I might win some".

 

[Robert Pate]

In the Book of Acts, we see an example of what repentance looks like. Fear fell upon the people and they forsook their evil deeds. Many of today's Christians would call that "works" because they have distorted what repentance really entails, which involves forsaking our sins.

Acts 19
[13] Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
[14] And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
[15] And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
[16] And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
[17] And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
[18] And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
[19] Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
[20] So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed. (KJV)

All that come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Spirit to transform the unbeliever into the image of Christ. However, the believer still has his Adamic flesh that he has to deal with.

 

[Randy Kluth]

When Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the temple was torn from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51, that was the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion. This is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. The reason that Christians live by faith is because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Paul also said that those who continue to live by law are under the curse, Galatians 3:10. If you respond to this please use scripture to do so.

The problem usually comes from those who use Scriptural arguments and not use common sense. They confuse the technical Law of Moses with the more general sense of "law," such as in "rules for living."

Christianity does not lack "rules for living." It doesn't lack "law" in this more general sense. The only prohibition against "Law" is of the technical kind applying to the Law of Moses. We are certainly not under that Law, which was strictly for OT Jews.

When we try to follow *any law,* however, even in the general sense of law, we are unable to justify ourselves for Eternal Life. We are asked by God to live in His image and after His likeness. That applies to all human beings who He made in His image and likeness. But nobody can be justified for Eternal Life solely by the effort to do good. We need an atoning sacrifice, which only came through Jesus.

So in our efforts to do good we must rely on Jesus, our atoning sacrifice. In doing so we sacrifice all that is wrong, including any effort to do good apart from him. I hope this clears things up for some people here?

 

[07-07-07]

All that come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him are given the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Spirit to transform the unbeliever into the image of Christ. However, the believer still has his Adamic flesh that he has to deal with.

While we do indeed have the flesh to deal with, it must be crucified to inherit eternal life. Nothing defiled will enter the Kingdom of God.

Romans 6
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (KJV)

James 1
[14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (KJV)

Sin = death. Obedience = life eternal.

 

[Episkopos]

It is apparent that you believe in a holiness theology. Most holiness people believe that they can stop sinning because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Paul never taught a holiness theology. Paul confessed that he was a sinner and struggled with sin, Romans 7:7-25.

Good observation! Bad theology however. Paul confessed he was the chief of sinners. You can think that means that he continued to lead a sinful lifestyle....thus excusing one's own sins. OR, we can see Romans 7 as a testimony about his discovery of the power of grace to walk as Jesus walked...in Romans 8.

You have to realize that we divided the chapters and verses....but the letter to the Romans is all one continuous narrative. When you read of Jesus' crucifixion...do you stop at where He gave up the ghost?

As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will sin.

No, Jesus had a mortal body like we do. You are thinking of an Adamic nature and weakness. The power of God empowers us to walk like Jesus...without sin...in the power of the Spirit in resurrection life.

We still have Adam's sinful nature and we still have Adam's blood flowing through our veins, even though we know that we have been crucified with Christ, Romans 6:6.

Thinking one is something and being something is very different. Many are indoctrinated into claiming the things that Paul experienced and claimed...but not strangely these same people never claim to have been stoned, whipped and shipwrecked like Paul was. We can't trust those people. They will say whatever is religiously expedient in order to back up a claim of being justified.

We only have the "First fruits of the Spirit" Romans 8:23. Which is the down payment. When we become totally sanctified in Jesus Christ then we will be perfect as he is perfect. That has not happened yet but will happen when he appears, Colossians 3:4.

We have a free sample of grace at regeneration. From there we need to go to God to be crucified with Christ...and raised to new life IN Him.

Because of the indwelling Holy Spirit we are able to live better lives than the unsaved. But we are still sinners, saved sinners. Jesus left us here on this earth in our Adamic bodies so that we can reach others for Christ. Paul said, "I can be all things to all men that I might win some".

Jesus doesn't promise us better lives. Resurrection life is not just a renovation of Adamic power...all things are made new for those who are IN Christ.

 

[Randy Kluth]

When Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the temple was torn from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51, that was the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion. This is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. The reason that Christians live by faith is because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Paul also said that those who continue to live by law are under the curse, Galatians 3:10. If you respond to this please use scripture to do so.

I guess the point I trying to make is that we don't read this as "Christ is the end of righteousness," or "Christ is the beginning of lawlessness." What we don't do is justify ourselves simply by doing good. We *must* embrace Christ as both our righteousness and our justification. But being our righteousness, we choose to be lawful *through him!*

 

[Robert Pate]

The problem usually comes from those who use Scriptural arguments and not use common sense. They confuse the technical Law of Moses with the more general sense of "law," such as in "rules for living."

Christianity does not lack "rules for living." It doesn't lack "law" in this more general sense. The only prohibition against "Law" is of the technical kind applying to the Law of Moses. We are certainly not under that Law, which was strictly for OT Jews.

When we try to follow *any law,* however, even in the general sense of law, we are unable to justify ourselves for Eternal Life. We are asked by God to live in His image and after His likeness. That applies to all human beings who He made in His image and likeness. But nobody can be justified for Eternal Life solely by the effort to do good. We need an atoning sacrifice, which only came through Jesus.

So in our efforts to do good we must rely on Jesus, our atoning sacrifice. In doing so we sacrifice all that is wrong, including any effort to do good apart from him. I hope this clears things up for some people here?

How are you doing living by his image and after his likeness, which is law? The law demands absolute perfection. Are you perfect? How does the atoning sacrifice of Jesus make us righteous? Where is the scripture that says that? This is what the scripture says, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5. Faith counts for righteousness.