The Tribs... Did Christ teach it?

[rockytopva]

Did Christ teach us to be pre- post- or mid- trib? I do not think he did! He taught us to be ready for it as a thief...At any time or at any hour!

 

[ATP]

Jesus will come as a thief to nonbelievers, not believers. Matt 24 & 1 Thess 5 Idiom...

Nonbelievers
1. As it was in the days of Noah
2. people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage
3. and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away
4. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape
5. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night.

Believers
1. Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you
2. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief
3. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.
4. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober.
5. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.
6. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
7. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

Matt 24:37-39 NIV As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

1 Thess 5:1-10 NIV Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

 

[rockytopva]

Maybe we should create a new group called the pan- tribbers, meaning it will all pan out in the end.

 

[blessedhope]

And For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent (1 Corinthians 1:18-19).

 

[blessedhope]

And Stephen Hawking is a brilliant man. Very intelligent with a superior IQ. But, he is a man. He does not have a supernatural brain or intelligence. How can a man with such intelligence not see the truth? Is it that he is so intelligent, he sees right through what is before his eyes? Does he feel superior and even god-like? Or is he just another scientific atheist who believes in the “Big Bang”? What I wonder is how can a man with such a superior intellect believe in a big bang? It makes no scientific sense whatsoever! I am not a genius by any means, but, I can see the error of his ways. Maybe he is not so intelligent after all! You decide.

 

[blessedhope]

And God always called out and preserved the believing remnant before he unleashed His wrath (the family of Noah, Lot). Why then, would the Church (what He calls His Bride) be allowed to be utterly slaughtered under the justice of his wrath.
Indeed, God disciplines and reproves those whom He loves. As Peter says, “For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household” (1 Peter 4:17). But, he also says in this same passage: “[…] if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?”. The treatment of the Church and those who “do not obey” are not one and the same.

 

[keras]

And God always called out and preserved the believing remnant before he unleashed His wrath (the family of Noah, Lot). Why then, would the Church (what He calls His Bride) be allowed to be utterly slaughtered under the justice of his wrath.

You don't see the many promises of God to His people of protection during His Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 43:2 and many other verses saying He will protect them, in a similar way as the three men in the fiery furnace.
There is no Biblical reason for God to take His people to live in heaven, we are earth beings and we have work to do here.

 

[blessedhope]

NO!> because they wont be Here!

 

[blessedhope]

And In Luke 12:36, the Word states that when Christ returns, He will be returning from a wedding. In Revelation 19:7-8, we read about the marriage itself. The marriage supper takes place before the marriage. According to Jewish custom, the marriage contract, which often includes a dowry, is drawn up first. The contract parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our Savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When it's time for the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced. She comes out to meet him, and then he takes her to his father's house. This precisely correlates with the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the Groom, comes down from heaven and calls up the Church, His Bride. After meeting in the air, He and His Bride return to His Father's house, heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place there, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation will be playing out. After the marriage supper of Jewish tradition, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean" (Rev 19:14).

 

[blessedhope]

And In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul assures us that God has not appointed His people to wrath. This wrath is plainly God's anger that will be poured out during the tribulation. Pre-trib believers interpret this as meaning that Christians will be removed from the earth. Post-trib believers tell a different story. They describe this as meaning that God will protect Christians during the tribulation and pour this wrath out on the unbelievers only. This idea runs against the statement made in Revelation 13:7, in which the Antichrist is given power to make war with the saints and to overcome them. A post-trib view would make God's promise of protection from wrath into a lie. In years past, it was possible to think of being protected from the guns and swords of that day. Today, when any major war would involve nuclear and chemical weapons, it's impossible to expect that same kind of protection. When Nagasaki, Japan was bombed during World War II, the bomb exploded over a Catholic church. Everyone who was in the center of the explosion died--both Christians and non-Christians. The only way to validly interpret God's promise of protection from wrath is by viewing 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as the bodily removal of the Church from this world.

 

[blessedhope]

This is both rapture and tribulation woven>The Apostle John witnesses 24 men (Elders,) before the Throne, they are wearing crowns and given thrones that stand before God's Throne. Beginning with their appearance in Heaven, no where will the reader ever find a similar scene recorded in scripture. Within the hierarchy in Heaven no angels are ever called Elders, this title is long associated with the Church. This is the first clear indication that the Rapture event has already taken place.

How are they dressed?

While angels do appear in white, white garments are given to believers symbolizing Christ’s righteousness. Also... Revelation 3:5: "He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Their Crowns.

Each of the 24 Elders are given crowns. Five specific crowns are mentioned in the new testament and how they pertain to the church. The Imperishable Crown, (1 Corinthians 9:24-25,) The Crown of Rejoicing – (1 Thessalonians 2:19,) The Crown of Righteousness – (2 Timothy 4:8,) The Crown of Glory – (1 Peter 5:4,) and The Crown of Life – (Revelation 2:10.)

How Did They Get These Crowns?

The Bema Seat described in Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body. The appearance of the 24 Elders wearing crowns concludes that in order that they are wearing these crowns concludes that the whole of the church, the bride of Christ are present in Heaven during Jon's vision.

This judgment will determine how we lived our lives in physical form as Christians and will determine which of the five crowns mentioned above will be given. Some may receive all the five crowns, others a mix of the crowns, etc. It is Jesus at the conclusion of the Bema Seat who will determine who will receive the appropriate crowns.

 

[blessedhope]

I just the bible is so rapture and pre-Trib and people go out of their way to scream and yell about it but those 5 crowns. Is the icing on the cake for a rapture and Pre-Tribulation. I have never read a good argument about the 5 crowns that it is not the raptured church in heaven before the Trib. Apostates shut up when confronted with it or they make total fools of them selves trying to explain it.

 

[keras]

Have fun with your dreams, Blessedhope, I intend to do the work the the Lord has given me. I expect tough times, all the saints so far have had them, what makes todays believers different?
Don't bother to answer, as your posts are confused and incoherent.

 

[ATP]

And God always called out and preserved the believing remnant before he unleashed His wrath (the family of Noah, Lot). Why then, would the Church (what He calls His Bride) be allowed to be utterly slaughtered under the justice of his wrath.
Indeed, God disciplines and reproves those whom He loves. As Peter says, “For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household” (1 Peter 4:17). But, he also says in this same passage: “[…] if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?”. The treatment of the Church and those who “do not obey” are not one and the same.

That's right bhope. Believers are not appointed to wrath...

Prewrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/prewra01.JPG

1. Antichrist signs peace treaty with Israel to begin the 70th week Isa 28:15 NIV, Isa 28:18 NIV, Isa 57:8-9 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Rev 6:2 NIV, Rev 6:8 NIV.
2. The third temple (the holy place) is built Exo 26:33 NIV, Ez 40-48 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV..http://thewordonpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ezekiels-Temple-Logos.png
3. The first 3.5 years are birth pains, the first four seals are open along with apostasy of Jews Dan 11:36-45 NIV, Matt 24:4-7, 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, Rev 6:1-8 NIV.
4. At the middle of the 70th week the abomination of desolation takes place in the holy place Exo 26:33 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Dan 11:31 NIV, Dan 12:11 NIV, Matt 24:15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV, Rev 13:14-15 NIV.
5. Michael the angel, the restrainer is removed here Dan 12:1 NIV, 2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV, Rev 12:6-12 NIV.
6. Immediately after the abomination of desolation the fifth seal is open and the Great Tribulation begins, man's rebellion against God Rev 6:9-11 NIV.
7. This is right around where the two witnesses make their appearance and prophesy for 1,260 days Mal 4:5 NIV, Rev 11:2-3 NIV.
8. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week now begins.
9. Then the Great Tribulation is cut short around the middle of the last 3.5 years Matt 24:22 NIV.
10. Immediately after the Great Tribulation ends cosmic disturbances occur before the Day of the Lord begins.
11. The 144,000 are then sealed before the rapture, so they can enter the Day of the Lord without harm Rev 7:2-4 NIV.
12. The rapture occurs at the seventh seal, after the Great Tribulation and at the beginning of the Day of the Lord Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rev 7:14 NIV, Rev 8:1-5 NIV.
13. The Bema Seat of Christ is here Matt 16:27 NIV, Luke 14:14-15 NIV, 2 Cor 5:10 NIV, Rev 19:8-9 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV.
14. The Feast/Marriage Supper of the Lamb is also here Luke 14:14-15 NIV, Rev 7:9 NIV, Rev 19:1 NIV, Rev 19:9 NIV.
15. Then begins the Day of the Lord, the start of God's wrath of trumpets. The 5th trumpet will also last five months Rev 9:5 NIV.
16. At the end of the 70th week the beast will kill the two witnesses, but after 3.5 days they will come alive Rev 11:7-12 NIV.
17. Very few people will be left after the 70th week is complete Zech 13:8-9 NIV.
18. Jesus Christ landing on the Mount of Olives is here Zech 9:14-17 NIV, Zech 10:1-12 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV, Zech 14:4 NIV, Mal 3:2-4 NIV, Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rom 11:26-27 NIV, Jude 1:14-15 NIV, Rev 19:11-21 NIV.
19. After the 70th week is complete the bowl judgments begin for 30 days Dan 12:11 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV.
20. Then the 45 days begin for cleansing of the Temple Dan 12:12 NIV, Zech 13:1-6 NIV.
21. After the 45 days are finished the 1,000 year millennium begins Rev 20:4-6 NIV.
22. Nonbelievers will also be a part of the 1,000 year millennium Zech 14:16-19 NIV.
23. After the 1,000 years are finished, the dead believers and nonbelievers that are left over will be judged Rev 20:11-15 NIV.
24. Then a New Heaven and a New Earth will appear making everything new Rev 21:1-8 NIV.
25. Lastly, Eden is restored in which we now live with Jesus Christ forever and ever. Amen Rev 22:1-5 NIV.

Side Note 1: The full seven years are never called "the tribulation period", rather the 70th week is the proper name to describe the seven years.

Side Note 2: The Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are not the same event. The GT is man's rebellion against God, and the Day of the Lord is God's wrath against man. These two events are split in half in the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. The church will have to go through the first five seals and also the GT, but they will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins, God's wrath of trumpets and bowls. The church will witness the signing of the peace treaty, the third temple built, the first four seals opening, the abomination of desolation, the two witnesses, the fifth seal opening, the GT of man's rebellion and the sixth seal of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon and stars before they are raptured.

 

[blessedhope]

To me That's junk! I

 

[blessedhope]

And
Don't bother to answer, as your posts are confused and incoherent. To Some!

 

[ATP]

To me That's junk! I

What exactly is the junk part? where is your timing of rapture in end times?

And
Don't bother to answer, as your posts are confused and incoherent. To Some!

I'm actually very coherent, and I also apply various scriptures to back me up.

 

[rockytopva]

Jesus Christ taught his followers to be ready for the time he comes again...

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh - Matthew 24:44
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

Like the parable of the wise virgins we pre-tribs keep are garments clean and white, anticipating the coming of our Lord as imminent, as something that could happen at any time. This is a matter of obedience on our part.

I can imagine the early Christians as thinking the same thing and they were asking the apostles, "All right... We have waited all these years... So what happened?" In which they answer...

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. - 1 Thesanonians 5

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:8-12

And of that day...

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. - Mark 13:32

So since no man, no angels, not even Christ himself knows of that day, the council here is to anticipate that day as happening at any time or at any hour.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5YyXbTyao

 

[ATP]

Like the parable of the wise virgins we pre-tribs keep are garments clean and white

Pre trib is false rocky. The Olivet Discourse clearly tells us rapture occurs after the great trib. Signs in the sun, moon and stars occur after the great trib..

Matt 24:29-31 NIV “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[StanJ]

Maybe we should create a new group called the pan- tribbers, meaning it will all pan out in the end.

Hey! That's my line.