Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

[St. SteVen]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

 

[Lambano]

Maybe it takes more faith to admit we don't have all the answers (or all the questions) - and trust God anyway.

 

[Lambano]

I remember in our Sunday School class, we were talking about this. A young lady in her thirties who had come to know Jesus relatively recently, testified that Christianity had answered all of the deeper questions she had had about life and everything. (Praise God!)

I, being in my fifties at the time, had to admit that the nature of the questions had changed as I grew older, but trust in God helps me accept not knowing the answers. Our class leader, a dear lady about my age whose life would soon be cut short by cancer, understood completely.

 

[ScottA]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

It is God who knows all things who reveals all in His own good time according to His plans for humanity, "but each one in his own order."

"Then comes the end."

However, before the end of times, we have been promised the revealing of "all truth" as being "lead" by the Holy Spirit. In other words--before the end all truth comes to mankind. But we should remember, that it comes according to the words of Joel the prophet (confirmed by Jesus), not as all truth to all God's children, but rather--and this is the important part--that He pours out His spirit upon "all flesh"...meaning both the good and the evil. This is also that time foretold by Daniel, of "desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?” Meaning the stakes and the chaos has increased ("knowledge shall increase"). This is not so much great tribulation, but rather great increase.

Nonetheless, the promise of God and Christ of all truth being revealed by the leading of the Holy Spirit, was and is to be. And God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever", how should we expect it to come? As every saved person having equal access and knowledge against what is written of "divers gifts given to men?" No, but just as it has always been: That by God's choosing individuals, some of high repute, some not, speaking as "the voice of one crying in the wilderness" of many false prophets.

So, what, have we learned nothing? Should we categorically stone everyone who speaks in spite of the fact that we are to expect "all truth" to come? No--not at all, but we are also told to "test every spirit", and forewarned that delusions and false doctrines by false prophets and false christs would be so strong that even the elect might be deceived.

And there is another test regarding what we do not know--given as a qualification by Jesus--which is that those [actually] sent that we should hear...admittedly claim nothing that is their own.

 

[St. SteVen]

Maybe it takes more faith to admit we don't have all the answers (or all the questions) - and trust God anyway.

I agree. Thanks for your reply.

I dedicated myself to evangelical Apologetics when I was younger.
But was frustrated by the loose ends. We claimed to have ALL the answers, but we didn't.

I stopped using apologetics for evangelism when I realized that I was making projects out of people.

 

[St. SteVen]

I remember in our Sunday School class, we were talking about this. A young lady in her thirties who had come to know Jesus relatively recently, testified that Christianity had answered all of the deeper questions she had had about life and everything. (Praise God!)

I, being in my fifties at the time, had to admit that the nature of the questions had changed as I grew older, but trust in God helps me accept not knowing the answers. Our class leader, a dear lady about my age whose life would soon be cut short by cancer, understood completely.

Interesting how age, and/or spiritual maturity, changes your perception of these things.

Pretty sure the lack of response to this thread has to do with the hatred of the word agnostic.
I'm toying with another term. Theistic Atheist.

Defined as...
A believer that does not accept the description of God given to them in their religious upbringing.

 

[Lambano]

But was frustrated by the loose ends. We claimed to have ALL the answers, but we didn't.

The above meme was inspired by a Steve Brown quote about the problems with Systematic Theology. I used to be into Systematic Theology. Engineers want a system where it all makes sense; that's how we think. But the Bible won't let us do that. If it did, what would we argue about on this site? With systematic theology, there's always something hanging out of the suitcase.

 

[Lambano]

Pretty sure the lack of response to this thread has to do with the hatred of the word agnostic.
I'm toying with another term. Theistic Atheist.

That would be even worse.

 

[St. SteVen]

With systematic theology, there's always something hanging out of the suitcase.

Exactly! Great point.

 

[Lambano]

A believer that does not accept the description of God given to them in their religious upbringing.

Do you retain some of the traditional beliefs about God you were taught early on?

Certainly I have my non-negotiables, my sine qua nons.

 

[Lambano]

Pretty sure the lack of response to this thread has to do with the hatred of the word agnostic.
I'm toying with another term. Theistic Atheist.

Defined as...
A believer that does not accept the description of God given to them in their religious upbringing.

The politically correct term for "not knowing" within Evangelicalism is, "I appeal to Mystery".

But "Theistic Atheist" reminds me of the story of the man who politely tried to brush off the street evangelist with, "I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God". The evangelist, perhaps moved by the man's politeness, responded, "Well, tell me about this god you don't believe in. I probably don't believe in that god either." And they had a polite, respectful, honest discussion about God and Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you retain some of the traditional beliefs about God you were taught early on?

Certainly I have my non-negotiables, my sine qua nons.

Absolutely.
I consider myself to be a recovering evangelical though.
So, I am sorting things out. Eat the meat and spit out the bones.

 

[Behold]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

A Born again Christian, knows the Truth., as the Truth lives in them.

This is Jesus, who said, "I am THE Truth". John 14:6

 

[St. SteVen]

The politically correct term for "not knowing" within Evangelicalism is, "I appeal to Mystery".

Nice. I hadn't heard that one. Thanks.

But "Theistic Atheist" reminds me of the story of the man who politely tried to brush off the street evangelist with, "I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God". The evangelist, perhaps moved by the man's politeness, responded, "Well, tell me about this god you don't believe in. I probably don't believe in that god either." And they had a polite, respectful, honest discussion about God and Jesus.

Wow. That's a great story.
That is how it should work. Excellent.

 

[St. SteVen]

A Born again Christian, knows the Truth., as the Truth lives in them.

This is Jesus, who said, "I am THE Truth". John 14:6

Do I deserve that inference?

Do you have anything relevant to say about the topic?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I stopped using apologetics for evangelism when I realized that I was making projects out of people

Wow…what an apt description, making projects out of people. I mean, not all apologists do that. And a few of them (mostly the dead ones) have helped me a lot.
But the “apologetics tours” that go on in YouTube, where you ask a set of predetermined questions of people on the street to sort of…corner them, it really does seem like making projects of them as you described.

I don’t say they’re necessarily doing anything terribly wrong or evil so much as…well…if you watch the faces of the people when they sort of laugh and seem amused by the way they were painted into a corner by a series of questions, that’s really not like any coming to Jesus moment I’ve ever seen, including my own. Their reactions seem to be more of an amused appreciation or nod to human cleverness.

 

[Mr E]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

A coffee chat.... my favorite.

Acknowledging that we don't have all the answers is the key to growth. A step farther, would be to acknowledge that some of the "answers" we say we have are in fact, -completely wrong.

The consequence, or result of such acknowledgments is humility. And it's beautiful.

The polar opposite of course is someone who thinks they have all the answers and who thinks that the answers they have are all right. The consequence is arrogance and hubris. And it's ugly.

 

[St. SteVen]

A coffee chat.... my favorite.

Acknowledging that we don't have all the answers is the key to growth. A step farther, would be to acknowledge that some of the "answers" we say we have are in fact, -completely wrong.

The consequence, or result of such acknowledgments is humility. And it's beautiful.

The polar opposite of course is someone who thinks they have all the answers and who thinks that the answers they have are all right. The consequence is arrogance and hubris. And it's ugly.

I dug up this gem as the last post of a very old topic of mine.
Well said. Worth revisiting, thanks. (the post and the topic)

/

 

[Mr E]

I dug up this gem as the last post of a very old topic of mine.
Well said. Worth revisiting, thanks. (the post and the topic)

/

Thread, back from the dead.

It’s not necromancy. It’s a resurrection.

Learning requires intellectual curiosity. You’ll find oodles of threads here on the forum that begin well— with a question.

And then people ruin them, by offering answers.

And then arguing about the answers offered.

I think that when we stand before him, we should come with many questions and the humility to question the answers we’ve come up with on our own. We should always ask ourselves, regarding the answers we have—-

Is this right? What if it isn’t?

 

[Mr E]

Here’s the problem…

Where religion and faith are concerned— so many answers have been offered. Book-filling answers, to the point that folks cling to their particular book of answers with disdain for all other such books. No one asks the questions anymore— they just talk about the answers to the questions. Their answers. Everyone loves their own brand.

Jesus came along and told us to revisit the answers. He made us rethink the answers and reasons the questions. “You have heard…. But I say…” “You have been taught…. But I say…”

And they hated him for raising questions about their answers. For questioning them—- the answer people.