Thoughts about using a KJV update?

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Would you use a KJV update?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 52.8%
  • Probably

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Probably not

    Votes: 5 13.9%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Total voters
    36

Michiah-Imla

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I worship God; you worship a book.

And how can you know how to properly worship without the perfect word of God?

“I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.” (Psalms 138:2)
 

Michiah-Imla

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Ok, show me one place where a modern English translation CHANGES any doctrine found in the KJV. It does not exist.

Which Jesus is the real honest one in these two Bibles:

KJV
“Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.” (John 7:8)

ESV
“You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”” (John 7:8)

Jesus did end up going to the feast. And in the KJV Jesus was honest in saying he would not go YET.

In the ESV he is made out to be a liar by going to the feast when he said he would NOT go. And the translators didn’t even care about what light this faulty rendering would place our Lord in.

These are your biblical “fact checkers” at work. And you follow all their textual criticism fairy tales.
 
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Grailhunter

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What is your basis for saying this? Do you have access to the source texts? Do you have extensive knowledge of ancient Hebrew?

Here is Genesis 3:16 from the NET, with the translators' notes...

"To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your labor pains;
with pain you will give birth to children.
You will want to control your husband,
but he will dominate you.”

Re "increase": The imperfect verb form is emphasized and intensified by the infinitive absolute from the same verb.
Re "pains": Heb “your pain and your conception,” suggesting to some interpreters that having a lot of children was a result of the judgment (probably to make up for the loss through death). But the next clause shows that the pain is associated with conception and childbirth. The two words form a hendiadys (where two words are joined to express one idea, like “good and angry” in English), the second explaining the first. “Conception,” if the correct meaning of the noun, must be figurative here since there is no pain in conception; it is a synecdoche, representing the entire process of childbirth and child rearing from the very start. However, recent etymological research suggests the noun is derived from a root הרר (hrr), not הרה (hrh), and means “trembling, pain” (see D. Tsumura, “A Note on הרוֹן (Gen 3, 16),” Bib 75 [1994]: 398-400). In this case “pain and trembling” refers to the physical effects of childbirth. The word עִצְּבוֹן (ʿitsevon, “pain”), an abstract noun related to the verb (עָצַב, ʿatsav), includes more than physical pain. It is emotional distress as well as physical pain. The same word is used in v. 17 for the man’s painful toil in the field.
Re "control your husband": Heb “and toward your husband [will be] your desire.” The nominal sentence does not have a verb; a future verb must be supplied, because the focus of the oracle is on the future struggle. The precise meaning of the noun תְּשׁוּקָה (teshuqah, “desire”) is debated. Many interpreters conclude that it refers to sexual desire here, because the subject of the passage is the relationship between a wife and her husband, and because the word is used in a romantic sense in Song 7:11 HT (7:10 ET). However, this interpretation makes little sense in Gen 3:16. First, it does not fit well with the assertion “he will dominate you.” Second, it implies that sexual desire was not part of the original creation, even though the man and the woman were told to multiply. And third, it ignores the usage of the word in Gen 4:7 where it refers to sin’s desire to control and dominate Cain. (Even in Song of Songs it carries the basic idea of “control,” for it describes the young man’s desire to “have his way sexually” with the young woman.) In Gen 3:16 the Lord announces a struggle, a conflict between the man and the woman. She will desire to control him, but he will dominate her instead. This interpretation also fits the tone of the passage, which is a judgment oracle. See further Susan T. Foh, “What is the Woman’s Desire?” WTJ 37 (1975): 376-83.
Re "dominate": The Hebrew verb מָשַׁל (mashal) means “to rule over,” but in a way that emphasizes powerful control, domination, or mastery. This also is part of the baser human nature. The translation assumes the imperfect verb form has an objective/indicative sense here. Another option is to understand it as having a modal, desiderative nuance, “but he will want to dominate you.” In this case, the Lord simply announces the struggle without indicating who will emerge victorious.sn This passage is a judgment oracle. It announces that conflict between man and woman will become the norm in human society. It does not depict the NT ideal, where the husband sacrificially loves his wife, as Christ loved the church, and where the wife recognizes the husband’s loving leadership in the family and voluntarily submits to it. Sin produces a conflict or power struggle between the man and the woman, but in Christ man and woman call a truce and live harmoniously (Eph 5:18-32).

I use the NET Bible for two reasons: 1) it is an excellent translation into modern English and 2) as shown above, there are extensive, thorough translator's notes describing why and how translations decisions were made. It does away with KJVO's absurd comments about the "accuracy" of the 400+ years old translation that is based on a) a limited number of manuscripts compared to what is available today, b) a limited understanding of the cultures of the Bible, compared to excellent modern archaeological findings, for example, the Dead Sea scrolls, and c) the need to promote the theology of a secular king.

I claim that KJVOs' thinking is based on the false assumption that 17th Century Englyshe somehow conveys God's thoughts and ideas more clearly than the modern English that they themselves use every day to convey those same thoughts. Do they really think that the ancient scribes used stilted language instead of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek to convey God's words to a population that was almost entirely illiterate? Do they really think that when Jesus spoke to thousands of people, He spoke in a language that they couldn't understand?

They are confusing holiness with pomposity. The reject modern society and scholarship in favor of an imagined 17th Century England. They forget that the KJV is a translation of the texts that were available at the time and not the pure, true word of God. For some reason, they think that particular version is both inspired and correct, forgetting that it is based in part on earlier English translations and that the translators expected their work to be modified at a later time.

Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart." They are clearly delusional.

You guys make the same mistakes that translators of old have done. It does not matter if it is French or English....all that matters is what it said in the texts. Mostly Hebrew and Greek. And yes there are time you need to know the languages pretty good but that does not mean that most anybody can dig into them. The Key is to have the best representation of the original texts and there are books out on that.

As far as translations it really does not matter what modern translations changed, all that matters is that they are the most true to the examples of the original texts that we have.
 

Truther

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I was baptized way before school so how is this even relevant? Oh wait, it's not.
If the name of Jesus was not invoked over you upon baptism, you cannot claim remission of sins today.
 

Truther

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No wonder you call yourself "truther". It's absurd. BTW, I don't listen to CNN or no anyone who works there, so your assumption is, as usual, false.
You don't like Trump and you don't claim to be a liberal.

Bernie bro?
 

reformed1689

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Which Jesus is the real honest one in these two Bibles:

KJV
“Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.” (John 7:8)

ESV
“You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”” (John 7:8)

Jesus did end up going to the feast. And in the KJV Jesus was honest in saying he would not go YET.

In the ESV he is made out to be a liar by going to the feast when he said he would NOT go. And the translators didn’t even care about what light this faulty rendering would place our Lord in.

These are your biblical “fact checkers” at work. And you follow all their textual criticism fairy tales.
7:8 Jesus’ statement, “I am not going up to this feast,” should not be taken as a mistake by John or a falsehood by Jesus, even though John then records that Jesus did go up to the feast (v. 10). The Greek present tense in v. 8 can legitimately have the sense, “I am not now going,” indicating that Jesus did not go up to the feast in the way the brothers suggested, for they wanted Jesus to manifest himself to his contemporaries for secular reasons. In fact, many of the oldest and best manuscripts have oupō (Gk. “not yet”) rather than simply ouk (Gk. “not”), and that might have been the original reading, though the reading “not” seems more likely to be original.

Crossway Bibles, The ESV Study Bible (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2008), 2037.
 

Davy

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NET translator's note on Matthew 17:21: "Many significant mss (א* B Θ 0281 33 579 892* e ff1 sys,c sa) do not include 17:21 “But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” The verse is included in א2 C D L W Γ Δ ƒ1, 13 565 579 700 1241 1424 M al lat sy(p),h, but is almost certainly not original. As Metzger notes, “Since there is no satisfactory reason why the passage, if originally present in Matthew, should have been omitted in a wide variety of witnesses, and since copyists frequently inserted material derived from another Gospel, it appears that most manuscripts have been assimilated to the parallel in Mk 9.29” (TCGNT 35). The present translation follows NA28 in omitting the verse number as well, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations."

NET translator's note on Mark 9:29, "Most witnesses, even early and excellent ones (P45vid א2 A C D L W Θ Ψ ƒ1,13 33 M lat co), have “and fasting” (καὶ νηστείᾳ, kai nēsteia) after “prayer” here. But this seems to be a motivated reading, due to the early church’s emphasis on fasting (TCGNT 85; cf., e.g., 2 Clem. 16:4; Pol. Phil 7:2; Did. 1:3; 7:4). That the most significant witnesses (א* B), as well as a few others (0274 k), lack καὶ νηστείᾳ, when a good reason for the omission is difficult to find, argues strongly for the shorter reading."

Trust scholars, not misguided, biased opinions.


You mean you listen to the non-Christian Bruce Metzger who was a higher critic linked with Curt Aland who preferred Romanist doctrines?

Metzger was a liberal modernist according Dr. D.A. Waite, president of the Dean Burgon Society. Metzger was the editor of the Reader's Digest Bible, which butchered and condensed the Scriptures. He believed Peter didn't write Peter, and that John didn't write Revelation, showing he was of the higher critics' bogus claims (according to Waite in Bridge To Babylon).

Bart Ehrman was a student of Bruce Metzger, and Ehrman wrote a work called Misquoting Jesus, which proposed to bring down Biblical Christianity! (https://www.cbn.com/special/apologetics/articles/Koukl_misquoting_jesus_bart_ehrman.aspx)

Dr. Jeffery Khoo said of Metzger, "Metzger's philosophy and methodology ... only lead to chronic uncertainty and perpetual unbelief." (Bruce Metzger and the Curse of Textual Criticism, by Dr. Jeffery Khoo).

Metzger believed the beginning of Genesis contained myths, instead of a literal account of the creation. In his Reader's Digest Bible, he says the Biblical authors were "great creative artists" (Reader's Digest Bible, Introduction to the Old and New Testaments). Metzger co-authored The New Oxford Annotated Bible, which in the Intro says the books of Moses were derived out of a matrix of myth, legend and history, but only later in modified form became a part of Scripture. If that were true, it would mean Moses did not write the Books that have him as the author, and also that Jesus lied because Jesus quoted Moses from those Old Testament Books. This shows Metzger's bias against The Bible, and that he is not to be trusted, even though he was a major critic among the 20th century higher critics.

Dr. David Brown, president of the King James Bible Research Council, said Metzger wasn't even a Bible believer. The above evidence pretty much seals that fact.

Metzger led the committee for the New Revised Standard (The New Oxford Annotated Bible). It received the official approval of the Roman Catholic Church, and even says on the cover that it is an "An Ecumenical Study Bible". So there's the old "Oxford Movement" again, the Roman Church trying to bring the Protestant Church back under its fold. Metzger didn't believe that Paul even wrote 1st and 2nd Timothy and Titus.

And you want us to trust someone like Metzger???
 

Davy

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Actually there is historical proof that the TR has passages taht are not original.

Bogus statement, just like what Wescott and Hort made about their "best and older" manuscripts, providing NO historical proof. "We said it, so it must be true", that... is what your statement presents, i.e., gibberish.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Ok, show me one place where a modern English translation CHANGES any doctrine found in the KJV. It does not exist.

A List of Doctrines Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJB and Modern Translations):

#1. Doctrine of The Trinity is Effected; For the Only Verse (1 John 5:7) That Point Blank Tells Us About the Trinity is Removed:

If I was on an island, and I had no clue about Christianity, the odds of my understanding the Trinity is better if I had a King James bible vs. a Modern Translation bible that removes this valuable truth on knowing the Trinity. So this proves that Modern Translations are less helpful for me to understand the Trinity by using the Bible alone.

#2. The Doctrine of Fasting So As To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 that tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting so as to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a hate on for the KJV. For if you ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.

#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine on Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version on His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.

#4. The Doctrine of Psalms 12:7 that the Lord will Preserve His Words Forever is Altered.
Psalms 12:6 says the words of the Lord are pure words, and in Psalms 12:7, the Psalmist says that the Lord will preserve them forever. It's kind of funny or odd that those who are against a perfect Bible existing in our world language today (i.e. the KJV) just so happen to favor Modern translations that remove and alter this very verse. Some do not even believe there is a perfect Bible out there. So who decides what words in the Bible are the true words of God? Do they decide? Now, some may say the perfect Word exists in the original languages. But Habakkuk 2:2 says write the words plainly so that he that reads it may run. So it's not going to be some gobbledygook language that nobody can understand (like biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek). In fact, all we have today are copies of the original languages. This is not the case with the KJV. Meaning, His Word is preserved forever. His Word moved with the times. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. His Word does not exist perfectly in some dead language, but His Word exists in the English (Which is the world language of today).

#5. In Genesis 3:16, the ESV (Which is one of the most popular Modern Translations) Doctrinally Changes the Nature of the Truth in the KJV by Saying that Eve's (the wife's) Desire is Contrary To Her Husband.

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#6. 2 Corinthians 3:12, and Habakkuk 2:2 is Altered by Modern Translations To Eliminate That God Uses Plainness of Speech.

This is important to understand because Modern Translation folk tend to prefer to look to the original languages to understand God's Word as their one and only go to source. This is not the plainness of speech that God employs. While God can speak in metaphor, or parables, He also speaks in plainness of speech, too. This has to be applicable to our life today in some way. Surely it is not a coincidence that these two key verses are eliminated in their favored Modern Translations (that influences their way of thinking).

#7. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,

6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).
King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.

Various different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that, “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations are teaching a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...

Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).
So Modern Translations are wrong. In fact, many Christians today think Jesus gave up His divine powers; This is because of the wrong teaching (or wrong doctrine) behind Modern Translations.​

Anyways, these are just a few of the red flags in Modern Translations.
But there are so many red flags in Modern Translations, it would make one think they were in a Russian airport.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Ok, show me one place where a modern English translation CHANGES any doctrine found in the KJV. It does not exist.

#8. Modern Bibles falsely teach Jesus had faith.

Hebrews 12:2 (NRSV)
“looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.”


The King James Bible correctly renders Hebrews 12:2.

Hebrews 12:2 (KJB)
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”


Jesus is the author or the creator of our faith because He is God. God or Jesus gave us the words of eternal life so as to believe in Him. He created the faith for us to believe in Him, and to trust in Him for salvation and to trust in His words. Jesus is not the pioneer of our faith. That’s a false teaching from Modern Bibles that were influenced by Westcott, Hort, and Catholicism. Granted, if you believe in Westcott, Hort, and or Catholicism, I mean no offense. I just disagree with their beliefs, and I consider them to be unbiblical.

#9. The False Belief that Jesus is a second created god is taught in Modern Bibles:

Modern Bibles wrongfully teach the demi-god Jesus viewpoint in that they wrongfully imply the Eternal second PERSON of the Trinity (the Living Word) had a beginning point in time in being a created being. In John 1:18, in the King James Bible, it correctly says: “the only begotten Son,” but this is changed in corrupted Modern bibles to say: "The only begotten God" (LSV) (BLB) (AMP) (NAS1977) (NAS1995). In Micah 5:2, in the King James Bible, it correctly says of the Living Word (or the Messiah) is: “from everlasting,” but this is changed in the corrupted Modern bibles to: “from ancient times” or “from ancient days” or “distant past.” (Suggesting that the second person of the Trinity did not exist from eternity’s past but had a beginning).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Ok, show me one place where a modern English translation CHANGES any doctrine found in the KJV. It does not exist.

Most do not know that all Modern Bibles are influenced by the Vatican.

Here it is straight out of the Nestle and Aland Critical Text 27th Edition (New Testament Greek text). Note: The Nestle and Aland Critical Text is in it’s 28th edition now and it is the basis for most of the Modern English Bibles printed today. But the 27th edition below says this…

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Source:
The KJB Only versus the Latin Vulgate Only Argument by: Another King James Bible Believer

I am going to repeat the text and highlight the key points.

The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to inter confessionals relationships.”​

So…

#1. The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies.
#2. Following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies
#3. It has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. (Note: What is the word “it” referring to in this sentence? This could be referring to the text and it is the basis (foundation) for new translations and revisions (Modern Bibles)).
#4. The text is the basis for new bible translations made under their supervision (the Vatican) which marks a significant step in regards to inter confessional relationships. Why does it mark a significant step? Because Carlo Martini (A Catholic cardinal) is an editor on the Nestle and Aland Critical Text.

In fact, let's check out the Nestle and Aland Critical Text page at Wikipedia called:

“Novum Testamentum Graece”

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Novum Testamentum Graece - Wikipedia

Scroll down the page, and you will see pictures of Nestle, and Aland.
Note: Nestle worked on the Critical Text years before Aland.
Kurt Aland is the one who worked on the Critical Text involving the Vatican. How so?

Notice the highlighted words in the pic below.

Carlo Maria Martini.

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If you were to zoom in and look at the picture below Kurt Aland:

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Again, who is Carlo Maria Martini?

As I said before, he is a Catholic cardinal.

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Source:
Carlo Maria Martini - Wikipedia

Important Note: JUST CLICK ON THE LINK FOR CARLO MARIA MARTINI MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE).

But wait. There’s more. Let’s look at Kurt Aland again. I circled his picture below for you to see him. You can see his name next to his picture.

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Now in this photo, you can see Kurt Aland with the pope:

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Why?

Because of this:

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“The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to inter confessionals relationships.”

Source:
Nestle and Aland Critical Text - 27the Edition.

But Guess which Bible the Roman Catholic Church does NOT want you to read -

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Yes, I am aware that this is an older book by the Catholic Church. But it is still pretty recent in history.

But why bring this up?
See my next post.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Robert Gwin

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Well I would not go that far. The KJV is a good translation. And it was the best translation for several hundred years. That is no longer the case.

In my recommendation I would place it #3. Truth can be found in it, but it is difficult. The reason why I would place the American Standard Version above it, is because it does not change God's name to LORD.
 

Robert Gwin

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Yes the KJV is the Bible. I am KJVO. I teach from it and recommend my students to use it exclusively.
There you have it sir straight from your own mouth, any idea what the V is in KJV?

In all honesty, how many of your students can you take you to God's name?