Thoughts about using a KJV update?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Would you use a KJV update?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 19 52.8%
  • Probably

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Probably not

    Votes: 5 13.9%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Total voters
    36

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Per Rev 14, most believers in the gospel of the 3 angels sent will be killed before the end of the trib.

So, are you ready for you and your loved ones to die at the hands of the antichrist for not taking the mark?

Or, are you obeying Acts 2:38 and walking in the Spirit to prepare yourself for the catching away of the bridegroom per Matt 25?

I don't want the Rambo test, so I pick the latter.
We really do not have to worry about it Truth, Jehovah provides as He always has, if the nations keep us from buying, we have no need to fear, Jehovah provides sir, it will be interesting to see how He will do it, but in every example in the past, He has.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I know. I was shocked about this even more than you when I learned of this in Scripture.
Anyways, this revelation that Spirit baptism was the new form of baptism under the New Covenant was not known to Peter right away.
So this is why you will see Peter water baptize in both Acts 2, and Acts 10. Remember, we see Peter and the apostles do things many times with a lack of understanding even before and after the cross. For example: Peter was rebuked by Jesus for trying to prevent him from going to the cross.
Even after Christ had risen, the apostles had no clue that He was risen and they doubted the woman’s testimony of seeing the Lord.

Paul, Aquila, and Priscilla had taught the way of God more perfectly on this matter (involving John’s water baptism). So many of the Jewish apostles (except Paul in his ministry after his return from Arabia) were not aware of what Paul knew yet.

  1. Acts of the Apostles 18:24-26 says, And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” In short, Aquila and Priscilla (who were taught by Paul) expounded the Word of God more perfectly unto Apollos because he only knew of John’s baptism of water. Apollos needed to learn of Spirit baptism (Which is the true New Covenant way of being baptized).

  2. Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7 says, “And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.” In other words, the believers at Ephesus only knew of John’s baptism of water, and they were not aware of the Holy Ghost. So Paul baptized them into the Holy Ghost by laying his hands on them. So they received the baptism of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:17 says, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” If water baptism is what places us into Christ, then why is Paul teaching against it here? This must mean that the true baptism is Spirit baptism and that the baptism that Paul was not sent by Christ to put forth was water baptism. For the apostles were commissioned to baptize in Matthew 28:19, and yet, Paul was an apostle.

Hebrews 9:10 says, “Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” The word “washings” is the Greek word “baptismos” (βαπτισμός) (Check out here for the Strong’s definition). In other words, Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today).
Exactly when in SCRIPTURAL history was water baptism phased out, since it was still happening at Acts 19?

Did you know that Paul's companions did his baptizing duties?

You think he banned baptism per the verse?

Talk about distorting someone's words....
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We really do not have to worry about it Truth, Jehovah provides as He always has, if the nations keep us from buying, we have no need to fear, Jehovah provides sir, it will be interesting to see how He will do it, but in every example in the past, He has.
This does not scare you and your loved ones?...

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


....you are Rambo, my friend.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Finally the truth!
But you are not telling the whole story.
Water Baptism was replaced by hating your mother and father in order to be a disciple of Christ! But that is just for men though!
For women, Water Baptism was replaced by being save through childbearing!

It is an absolutely absurd notion that Water Baptism was discontinued. Never skipped a beat for 2000 years!.....Discussions continued after the biblically era...to this day. Arguments on the correct way to do Water Baptisms have gone on for 2000 years. Discussions have been going on for 2000 years about what happens during Water Baptism. The event of the Protestant reform started with Baptisms.
Some are teaching that only the Jews were required to continue baptizing in the name of Jesus and Paul taught the gentiles it was not needed.

They teach 2 gospels.

Nuts.

Anything to justify being Acts skippers.

God will never vindicate them.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts is the history of the church for all generations to follow, ....not evolve from.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,267
5,331
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some are teaching that only the Jews were required to continue baptizing in the name of Jesus and Paul taught the gentiles it was not needed.

They teach 2 gospels.

Nuts.

Anything to justify being Acts skippers.

God will never vindicate them.

I am going to offer some information....
The Israelites-Jews had various beliefs regarding cleanliness. Everyday life....washing hands before eating.... washing themselves, ritual preparations. The Jews had pools with steps that they would line up and walk through....no mention of soap...LOL They would walk through these pools before certain rituals...total immersions for others...symbolic ritual purity?

Then on the other hand the New Testament does not tell of the cleanliness of Christians. I have no idea why...I am going to assume that Christians liked to be clean too. LOL

John the Baptists performed Baptisms for the remission of sins.....apparently he had the authority to forgive sins. And this becomes an issues in the scriptures because some of the Jews confronted Christ about this. Long discussions about this in college. Either way the scriptures do not elaborate on this.

Christian Baptism have several scriptures associated with it, directly and indirectly, but still does not elaborate on it completely. So opinions very but Baptism was never not part of the process of salvation. Not the point of salvation, not the power of salvation, but the process. All pre 20th century churches recognized Acts 2:38 as the process. Any church that did not believe in baptism would have been considered heretical and the belief itself could be classified as a new age belief.

Most denominations see Baptism as a very spiritual event that causes things in this world and the spirit world in relation to themselves and the Holy Spirit....which is my vote....but some consider it symbolic, even merely a public display of obedience. Which means you have to trample over a few scriptures to get there and is mostly associate with cessationists. But not always....I have been at churches that believed that baptism was merely a display but would gather the congregation around for the laying on of hands and oil to cure illnesses.
 

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am going to offer some information....
Baptism was never not part of the process of salvation
. Not the point of salvation, not the power of salvation, but the process. All pre 20th century churches recognized Acts 2:38 as the process. Any church that did not believe in baptism would have been considered heretical and the belief itself could be classified as a new age belief.

Most denominations see Baptism as a very spiritual event that causes things in this world and the spirit world in relation to themselves and the Holy Spirit....which is my vote....but some consider it symbolic, even merely a public display of obedience. Which means you have to trample over a few scriptures to get there and is mostly associate with cessationists. But not always....I have been at churches that believed that baptism was merely a display but would gather the congregation around for the laying on of hands and oil to cure illnesses.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

Remission of sins was never part of the salvation process?

M'kay.
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

Remission of sins was never part of the salvation process?

M'kay.

It is up to God to save whom He wishes, entirely by His grace. Period.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grailhunter

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is up to God to save whom He wishes, entirely by His grace. Period.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


AKA, grace.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,267
5,331
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

Remission of sins was never part of the salvation process?

M'kay.

You see there is why people have different opinions on this.

If you can find a scripture that says specifically that Baptism has no part of salvation or the remission of sins...then ya got something.
If not, Acts 2:28 is a process that is not to be dissected. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need faith in Christ to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need to repent to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need to be baptized to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. The end result of the forgiveness of sins and salvation is the complete process of Acts 2:38.

The Apostles spoke in absolutes, they were not tolerating debates. Dissension and disobedience was defined as a sin, if not a curse.

From there all other circumstances and decisions of not completing the process or how you weight them, is between you and Christ on Judgment Day.
 
Last edited:

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You see there is why people have different opinions on this.

If you can find a scripture that says specifically that Baptism has no part of salvation or the remission of sins...then ya got something.
If not, Acts 2:28 is a process that is not to be dissected. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need faith in Christ to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need to repent to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need to be baptized to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. The end result of the forgiveness of sins and salvation is the complete process of 2:38.

The Apostles spoke in absolutes, they were not tolerating debates. Dissension and disobedience was defined as a sin, if not a curse.

From there all other circumstances and decisions of not completing the process or how you weight them, is between you and Christ on Judgment Day.
Obeying Acts 2:38 qualified the 3000 murderers of Jesus at Pentecost for remission of their sins.

If it can do that, how much more for our sins?

We did not participate in the execution of Jesus, so obeying Acts 2:38 is a cinch to get us into heaven.

If we refuse to obey Acts 2:38, then we are worse than the murderers of Jesus, thinking it is only for "bad people", and not "good people" like us.
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You see there is why people have different opinions on this.

If you can find a scripture that says specifically that Baptism has no part of salvation or the remission of sins...then ya got something.
If not, Acts 2:28 is a process that is not to be dissected. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need faith in Christ to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need to repent to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. You are not going to find scriptures that say you do not need to be baptized to have your sins forgiven and to be saved. The end result of the forgiveness of sins and salvation is the complete process of Acts 2:38.

The Apostles spoke in absolutes, they were not tolerating debates. Dissension and disobedience was defined as a sin, if not a curse.

From there all other circumstances and decisions of not completing the process or how you weight them, is between you and Christ on Judgment Day.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

This verse clearly states that you are saved through faith, which is a gift of God. Notice that baptism is not mentioned, nor is any other ritual. Rituals do not save you, faith does. If you disagree then take it up with God.
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
989
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Readers should note x points about my exchanges with BH:
(1) I was Bruce Metzger's student. Indeed, he got me into the Harvard doctoral program in NT. So I have been directly to his fervent evangelical faith. On the other hand, BH has never even met this godly man.
(2) BH has never even read a mainstream book on Text Criticism like Metzger's. So he pontificates from ignorance.
(3) BH has ignored the principles of Text Criticism that I have laid out. Instead, he bizarrely opts to assess the corruptness of manuscripts by alleged doctrinal changes rather than recognize that it is precisely the purest approximation to the original text that establishes doctrine. In short, he commits the fallacy of begging the question.

Grace, peace, and blessings to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I disagree with Textual Criticism because it seeks to change the Bible that was established for hundreds of years.
I disagree with Bruce Metzger because he appears to hold to liberal beliefs regarding the Bible. Bruce thinks the stories of Job and Jonah are a myth. He believes in a local flood and not a global flood. Bruce Metzger also was being way too friendly with Catholics that falls into the realm of Ecumenism. No Christian who desires to be holy and separate would take the actions that Bruce did involving the pope. Christians should correct the pope in love and not have fellowship with him. Big difference there.

Modern Bibles have the devil’s name in them where they don’t belong and they teach false doctrines.
These are just simply facts for anyone to see who is open to seeing them.

So to claim that one knew Bruce personally or to imply Textual Criticism is the way to understand God’s Word does not change the facts I presented. We can agree to disagree in love and move on. Nobody here is saying you have to be KJB Only or believe in a perfect Bible. I cannot force you to believe in a perfect Bible. It’s something God has to reveal to a person (if they are open to such a thing).

Blessings be unto you in the Lord;
And good day to you in the name of Jesus.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,167
3,287
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Revisers had a wonderful opportunity. They might have made a few changes and removed a few archaic expressions, and made the Authorized Version the most acceptable and beautiful and wonderful book of all time to come. But they wished ruthlessly to meddle. Some of them wanted to change doctrine. Some of them did not know good English literature when they saw it… There were enough modernists among the Revisers to change the words of Scripture itself so as to throw doubt on the Scripture.

Herald and Presbyter (Presbyterian), July 16, 1924, p. 10.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,267
5,331
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

This verse clearly states that you are saved through faith, which is a gift of God. Notice that baptism is not mentioned, nor is any other ritual. Rituals do not save you, faith does. If you disagree then take it up with God.

The Apostles would probably tell ya, How many times do we do we have to tell you. LOL
But do not do what the Apostles tell ya.....Do what ya want and send us a memo on how it turns out.

And also I would like to add that what is faith? What does faith look like? Christianity is not a club, sign up and go on about your business. Christ told His disciple to Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: and the Apostles said to be baptized....Act 2:38

That is pretty much what James was talking about when he was talking about Good Deeds....what does faith look like?
 
Last edited:

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Apostles would probably tell ya, How many times do we do we have to tell you. LOL
But do not do what the Apostles tell ya.....Do what ya want and send us a memo on how it turns out.

And also I would like to add that what is faith? What does faith look like? Christianity is not a club, sign up and go on about your business. Christ told His disciple to Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: and the Apostles said to be baptized....Act 2:38

That is pretty much what James was talking about when he was talking about Good Deeds....what does faith look like?

Okay, I'll repeat my post (with emphases)...

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

This verse clearly states that you are saved through faith, which is a gift of God. Notice that baptism is not mentioned, nor is any other ritual. Rituals do not save you, faith does. If you disagree then take it up with God.

Would you like a larger font? The Bible clearly says that faith is a gift of God. Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with faith.
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Grace, peace, and blessings to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I disagree with Textual Criticism because it seeks to change the Bible that was established for hundreds of years.
I disagree with Bruce Metzger because he appears to hold to liberal beliefs regarding the Bible. Bruce thinks the stories of Job and Jonah are a myth. He believes in a local flood and not a global flood. Bruce Metzger also was being way too friendly with Catholics that falls into the realm of Ecumenism. No Christian who desires to be holy and separate would take the actions that Bruce did involving the pope. Christians should correct the pope in love and not have fellowship with him. Big difference there.

Modern Bibles have the devil’s name in them where they don’t belong and they teach false doctrines.
These are just simply facts for anyone to see who is open to seeing them.

So to claim that one knew Bruce personally or to imply Textual Criticism is the way to understand God’s Word does not change the facts I presented. We can agree to disagree in love and move on. Nobody here is saying you have to be KJB Only or believe in a perfect Bible. I cannot force you to believe in a perfect Bible. It’s something God has to reveal to a person (if they are open to such a thing).

Blessings be unto you in the Lord;
And good day to you in the name of Jesus.

I disagree with Textual Criticism because it seeks to change the Bible that was established for hundreds of years. Your KJV relied on Bible sources that were thousands of years old, so "hundreds of years" is meaningless.

Saying that modern Bibles have the devil’s name in them where [it doesn’t] belong and that they teach false doctrines is nonsense. The KJV is filled with hundreds of errors. These are just simply facts for anyone to see who is open to seeing them. (See, I can make a statement with no proof just as easily.)

Modern Bibles are excellent translations, more accurate and more easily understood than the olde KJV. Say hello to your unicorn!
 

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Revisers had a wonderful opportunity. They might have made a few changes and removed a few archaic expressions, and made the Authorized Version the most acceptable and beautiful and wonderful book of all time to come. But they wished ruthlessly to meddle. Some of them wanted to change doctrine. Some of them did not know good English literature when they saw it… There were enough modernists among the Revisers to change the words of Scripture itself so as to throw doubt on the Scripture.

Herald and Presbyter (Presbyterian), July 16, 1924, p. 10.

That is just your biased opinion (or a reprint from the Herald and Presbyter almost 100 years ago) . Modern translators have given us a variety of excellent Bibles. The only doubt thrown on the accuracy of English Scripture is that of the KJV which, for all your bluster, is just another translation. It is not faithful to the languages of the source texts, but instead made the translation to be totally unlike those ancient languages. If you knew anything about the ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek languages you would realize that the language of the KJV is nothing like them.

I challenge you to read the prefaces of modern translations to understand their methodology. Who knows, you might even learn something!
 
Last edited:

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,167
3,287
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
just your biased opinion

“By the sole authority of textual criticism these men have dared to vote away some 40 verses of the inspired word. The Eunuch’s Baptismal Profession of Faith is gone; and the Angel of the pool of Bethesda has vanished; but the Angel of the agony remains - till the next revision. The Heavenly Witnesses have departed, and no marginal note mourns their loss. The last 12 verses of St. Mark are detached from the rest of the gospel, as if ready for removal as soon as Dean Burgon dies. The account of the woman taken in adultery is placed in brackets, awaiting excision. Many other passages have a mark set against them in the margin to show that, like forest trees, they are shortly destined for the critic’s axe. Who can tell when the destruction will cease?

Dublin Review, July 1881
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bible Highlighter

Truther

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2019
10,295
1,479
113
62
Lodi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

This verse clearly states that you are saved through faith, which is a gift of God. Notice that baptism is not mentioned, nor is any other ritual. Rituals do not save you, faith does. If you disagree then take it up with God.
Romans was an epistle.

And epistle is a letter.

A letter written to Acts 2:38 adhering saints, not sinners.

Epistles were written to exhort the saints to continue in the faith to be saved.

The Acts 2:38 adhering saints had(have) to continue to confess and believe Jesus to remain saved.

Romans 10 was not written to trump Acts.