Thoughts about using a KJV update?

[Jim B]

You’re so brainwashed that you’re deaf to any other possible scenario.

Here are the fathers of what you believe:

Hort as well as Westcott rejected the idea of the infallibility of the Bible, and Hort called the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement “immoral”, Westcott denied the historicity of Genesis 1 through 3 and Hort praised Darwin and denied the divinity of Christ.

Clearly, this is not of your origin: Hort as well as Westcott rejected the idea of the infallibility of the Bible, and Hort called the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement “immoral”, Westcott denied the historicity of Genesis 1 through 3 and Hort praised Darwin and denied the divinity of Christ." Where did you get this (mis)information?

You are so brainwashed that you are deaf to any other possible scenario.

 

[Grailhunter]

I was showing you what Hort and Westcott believed.

Do I care what Hort and Westcott believed?

We oppose facts to their speculation. They exalt B and Aleph and D(8) because in their own opinions those copies are the best. They weave ingenious webs and invent subtle theories, because their paradox of a few against the many requires ingenuity and subtlety for its support. I am utterly disinclined to believe… so grossly improbable does it seem - that at the end of 1800 years 995 copies out of every thousand, suppose, will prove untrustworthy.”

I have already explained this...."Bible only" you should be at least be looking for the most accurate manuscripts. If not why not take up the new age beliefs ..... because more recent is better! It is not impossible that one of these days they will find a first century manuscript....
Translating from the translations of men....is scriptures three times removed.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

New discoveries -- …have given us the best understanding so far of the what the ancient writings actually say and what they meant to the earlier peoples.

Well well well, silly me!

And I thought the ETERNAL GOD with his Holy Spirit was involved in the process along the way…

Silly me…

[sarcastically speaking of course]

 

[Grailhunter]

Well well well, silly me!

And I thought the ETERNAL GOD with his Holy Spirit was involved in the process along the way…

Silly me…

[sarcastically speaking of course]

So you are thinking that the Holy Spirit signed off on the newer manuscripts?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Clearly, this is not of your origin: Hort as well as Westcott rejected the idea of the infallibility of the Bible, and Hort called the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement “immoral”, Westcott denied the historicity of Genesis 1 through 3 and Hort praised Darwin and denied the divinity of Christ." Where did you get this (mis)information?

You are so brainwashed that you are deaf to any other possible scenario.

Of course.

Because your view is the only POSSIBLE scenario. A view that lacks faith I might add.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Do I care what Hort and Westcott believed?

You should!

You believe the rhetoric that they invented!

 

[Jim B]

Here is part of the introduction of the NET Bible (my preferred translation). I have highlighted a very important point.

The NET Bible

The NET Bible is a completely new translation of the Bible with 60,932 translators’ notes! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. Turn the pages and see the breadth of the translators’ notes, documenting their decisions and choices as they worked. The translators’ notes make the original languages far more accessible, allowing you to look over the translator’s shoulder at the very process of translation. This level of documentation is a first for a Bible translation, making transparent the textual basis and the rationale for key renderings (including major interpretive options and alternative translations). This unparalleled level of detail helps connect people to the Bible in the original languages in a way never before possible without years of study of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It unlocks the riches of the Bible’s truth from entirely new perspectives.

Produced for ministry

Our ministry, bible.org, was created to be a source of trustworthy Bible study resources for the world, so that everyone is guaranteed free access to these high quality materials. In the second year of bible.org’s ministry (1995) it became clear that a free online Bible would be needed on the bible.org website since copyrighted Bibles can’t be quoted in a huge collection of online studies.

The NET Bible project was commissioned to create a faithful Bible translation that could be placed on the Internet, downloaded for free, and used around the world for ministry. The Bible is God’s gift to humanity – it should be free. (Go to www.bible.org and download your free copy.) Permission is available for the NET Bible to be printed royalty-free for organizations like the The Gideons International who print and distribute Bibles for charity. The NET Bible (with all the translators’ notes) has also been provided to Wycliffe Bible Translators to assist their field translators. The NET Bible Society is working with other groups and Bible Societies to provide the NET Bible translators’ notes to complement fresh translations in other languages. A Chinese translation team is currently at work on a new translation which incorporates the NET Bible translators’ notes in Chinese, making them available to an additional 1.5 billion people. Parallel projects involving other languages are also in progress.

Now serving individuals in 170 different countries on an average day, bible.org is the largest Bible study resource on the Internet with over 40,000 pages of Bible study materials currently available online for free. Also included are topical forums (www.bible.org/forum) where visitors to the site can dialogue and learn from each other. All this is done to support local church ministries and to build an effective online community of believers. Our passion is to see every person become mature in Christ and competent to teach and train others.

Accountability, transparency, and feedback

The NET Bible is the first Bible ever to be beta-tested on the Internet. In this beta-testing process all working drafts of the NET Bible were posted on www.bible.org for public review and comment. The significance of this is that the NET Bible team, from day one, has been listening to its readers. The purpose of the public review and comment was not to achieve a consensus translation, but to be accountable, to be transparent, and to request that millions of people provide feedback on the faithfulness and clarity of the translation as well as on the translators’ notes. Countless valuable suggestions have been made by scholars, by junior high school students, by college professors, and by lay Christians who speak English as a second language. Because of the open approach of the NET Bible team, the resulting product has been enriched immeasurably. Each one of us comes to the Bible from a different perspective; scholars need to listen to the person in the pew as much as the layperson needs to listen to scholars. The translation reflects the latest scholarship, and the sources are cited in the translators’ notes and documented in the appendices. The NET Bible is a truly symbiotic effort between the insights of biblical scholars and the needs of lay Christians. The combined effect of the notes and the nine year public review process has reinforced the translation’s primary goal of faithfulness to the original languages. By creating a translation environment that is responsible both to the world’s scholars and to lay readers, the NET Bible was read, studied, and checked by more eyes than any Bible translation in history.

The most important translation concept

The most important translation of the Bible is not from the original languages to English, but from the printed page into your life. If you have never read through a complete book of the Bible, we suggest you begin by reading the Gospel of John. We encourage you to recognize that the Bible is not merely a book. It is God’s message to us all, and God continues to speak through it today. There is, after all, a reason far more Bibles have been produced than any book in history. Read it and see.

If people want to learn more, you can read the rest at NET Bible : The Biblical Studies Foundation

 

[Jim B]

You should!

You believe the rhetoric that they invented!

Nonsense! Read my post above.

 

[Jim B]

Of course.

Because your view is the only POSSIBLE scenario. A view that lacks faith I might add.

This is clearly "the pot calling the kettle black". You are the one trapped in rigid, dogmatic thinking, not me. A view that lacks faith I might add.

 

[Grailhunter]

You should!

You believe the rhetoric that they invented!

My ministry is the Johnny Appleseed of truth. I do not believe what other people believe....more interested in the truth of God.
But the KJV translators were interested in what men believed.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“Hort as well as Westcott rejected the idea of the infallibility of the Bible, and Hort called the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement “immoral”, Westcott denied the historicity of Genesis 1 through 3 and Hort praised Darwin and denied the divinity of Christ.”

@Jim B responded to the above with:
“Where did you get this (mis)information?”

From their own writings!

"My dear Hort - I am very glad to have seen both your note and Lightfoot's - glad too that we have had such an opportunity of openly speaking. For I too "must disclaim setting forth infallibility" in the front of my convictions. All I hold is, that the more I learn, the more I am convinced that fresh doubts come from my own ignorance, and that at present I find the presumption in favor of the absolute truth - I reject the word infallibility - of Holy Scripture overwhelming. Of course I feel difficulties which at present I cannot solve, and which I never hope to solve."

 

[Jim B]

“Hort as well as Westcott rejected the idea of the infallibility of the Bible, and Hort called the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement “immoral”, Westcott denied the historicity of Genesis 1 through 3 and Hort praised Darwin and denied the divinity of Christ.”

@Jim B responded to the above with:
“Where did you get this (mis)information?”

From their own writings!

"My dear Hort - I am very glad to have seen both your note and Lightfoot's - glad too that we have had such an opportunity of openly speaking. For I too "must disclaim setting forth infallibility" in the front of my convictions. All I hold is, that the more I learn, the more I am convinced that fresh doubts come from my own ignorance, and that at present I find the presumption in favor of the absolute truth - I reject the word infallibility - of Holy Scripture overwhelming. Of course I feel difficulties which at present I cannot solve, and which I never hope to solve."

Why don't you read this quote more carefully? BTW, you should cite the source.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why don't you read this quote more carefully? BTW, you should cite the source.

Westcott and Hort Resource Centre - FAQs

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Here is part of the introduction of the NET Bible (my preferred translation). I have highlighted a very important point.

The NET Bible

The NET Bible is a completely new translation of the Bible with 60,932 translators’ notes! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. Turn the pages and see the breadth of the translators’ notes, documenting their decisions and choices as they worked. The translators’ notes make the original languages far more accessible, allowing you to look over the translator’s shoulder at the very process of translation. This level of documentation is a first for a Bible translation, making transparent the textual basis and the rationale for key renderings (including major interpretive options and alternative translations). This unparalleled level of detail helps connect people to the Bible in the original languages in a way never before possible without years of study of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It unlocks the riches of the Bible’s truth from entirely new perspectives.

Produced for ministry

Our ministry, bible.org, was created to be a source of trustworthy Bible study resources for the world, so that everyone is guaranteed free access to these high quality materials. In the second year of bible.org’s ministry (1995) it became clear that a free online Bible would be needed on the bible.org website since copyrighted Bibles can’t be quoted in a huge collection of online studies.

The NET Bible project was commissioned to create a faithful Bible translation that could be placed on the Internet, downloaded for free, and used around the world for ministry. The Bible is God’s gift to humanity – it should be free. (Go to www.bible.org and download your free copy.) Permission is available for the NET Bible to be printed royalty-free for organizations like the The Gideons International who print and distribute Bibles for charity. The NET Bible (with all the translators’ notes) has also been provided to Wycliffe Bible Translators to assist their field translators. The NET Bible Society is working with other groups and Bible Societies to provide the NET Bible translators’ notes to complement fresh translations in other languages. A Chinese translation team is currently at work on a new translation which incorporates the NET Bible translators’ notes in Chinese, making them available to an additional 1.5 billion people. Parallel projects involving other languages are also in progress.

Now serving individuals in 170 different countries on an average day, bible.org is the largest Bible study resource on the Internet with over 40,000 pages of Bible study materials currently available online for free. Also included are topical forums (www.bible.org/forum) where visitors to the site can dialogue and learn from each other. All this is done to support local church ministries and to build an effective online community of believers. Our passion is to see every person become mature in Christ and competent to teach and train others.

Accountability, transparency, and feedback

The NET Bible is the first Bible ever to be beta-tested on the Internet. In this beta-testing process all working drafts of the NET Bible were posted on www.bible.org for public review and comment. The significance of this is that the NET Bible team, from day one, has been listening to its readers. The purpose of the public review and comment was not to achieve a consensus translation, but to be accountable, to be transparent, and to request that millions of people provide feedback on the faithfulness and clarity of the translation as well as on the translators’ notes. Countless valuable suggestions have been made by scholars, by junior high school students, by college professors, and by lay Christians who speak English as a second language. Because of the open approach of the NET Bible team, the resulting product has been enriched immeasurably. Each one of us comes to the Bible from a different perspective; scholars need to listen to the person in the pew as much as the layperson needs to listen to scholars. The translation reflects the latest scholarship, and the sources are cited in the translators’ notes and documented in the appendices. The NET Bible is a truly symbiotic effort between the insights of biblical scholars and the needs of lay Christians. The combined effect of the notes and the nine year public review process has reinforced the translation’s primary goal of faithfulness to the original languages. By creating a translation environment that is responsible both to the world’s scholars and to lay readers, the NET Bible was read, studied, and checked by more eyes than any Bible translation in history.

The most important translation concept

The most important translation of the Bible is not from the original languages to English, but from the printed page into your life. If you have never read through a complete book of the Bible, we suggest you begin by reading the Gospel of John. We encourage you to recognize that the Bible is not merely a book. It is God’s message to us all, and God continues to speak through it today. There is, after all, a reason far more Bibles have been produced than any book in history. Read it and see.

If people want to learn more, you can read the rest at NET Bible : The Biblical Studies Foundation

Matthew 5:22
New English Translation

22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother [without a cause] will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.

The red lettered text is omitted showing that the NET uses the same corrupt texts that Westcott and Hort preferred.

Just another translation corrupted by its corrupt underlying text.

 

[Grailhunter]

Matthew 5:22
New English Translation

22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother [without a cause] will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.

The red lettered text is omitted showing that the NET uses the same corrupt texts that Westcott and Hort preferred.

Just another translation corrupted by its corrupt underlying text.

Well your main problem is trusting the KJV to be accurate to the scriptures. I have been pointing out the things that have been added to the newer manuscripts .... your example proves that. Without cause is not in the scriptures....

 

[Jim B]

Matthew 5:22
New English Translation

22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother [without a cause] will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.

The red lettered text is omitted showing that the NET uses the same corrupt texts that Westcott and Hort preferred.

Just another translation corrupted by its corrupt underlying text.

Your rigid, biased thinking is tragic. How do you live with yourself?

There is a translator's note associated with this "red lettered text": Some manuscripts insert "without cause". So you're twice wrong. The note shows that there is a variance in the manuscripts; they chose not to include it.

From the NET introduction: "It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts." Your persistent claim that they depended on Westcott and Hort is clearly a lie!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

With out cause is not in the scriptures....

Yes It is!

It’s just not in the corrupted ones that you like so much.

A careless scribe left out the ever so important “without a cause” scripture.

Otherwise you are suggesting that Christ was forbidding us to be angry against anyone regardless of the cause!

This would also contradict Paul’s writing here:

“Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger” (Ephesians 4:26)

You would prefer a reading that would create a contradiction in scripture?

And cause Jesus to be a hypocrite?

“And [Jesus] looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.” (Mark 3:5)

 

[Grailhunter]

There just not in the corrupted ones that you like so much.

LOL Ya ought to consider one of the new age beliefs. Cause newer is better!

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes It is!

There just not in the corrupted ones that you like so much.

A careless scribe left out the ever so important “without a cause” scripture.

Otherwise you are suggesting that Christ was forbidding us to be angry against anyone regardless of the cause!

This would also contradict Paul’s writing here:

“Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger” (Ephesians 4:26)

You would prefer a reading that would create a contradiction in scripture?

And cause Jesus to be a hypocrite?

“And [Jesus] looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.” (Mark 3:5)

By your line of thinking....the manuscripts that the apostles actually wrote are false....it is the newer manuscripts that are the real Bible!

 

[Jim B]

Yes It is!

There just not in the corrupted ones that you like so much.

A careless scribe left out the ever so important “without a cause” scripture.

Otherwise you are suggesting that Christ was forbidding us to be angry against anyone regardless of the cause!

This would also contradict Paul’s writing here:

“Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger” (Ephesians 4:26)

You would prefer a reading that would create a contradiction in scripture?

And cause Jesus to be a hypocrite?

“And [Jesus] looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.” (Mark 3:5)

Your thinking is so flawed that there is no point in trying to reason with you. In your blindness you ignore the plain truth. 2 Peter 3:16b, "Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures." NET

This clearly applies to you!