What and when is the rapture part two?

[ewq1938]

Since Jesus said that his second presence will be as the days of Noah, I don't think the majority of the people are going to believe they are actually living in the second presence of Jesus Christ until Armageddon begins.

Most people in the world have never read the bible and wouldn't know any of the things you are talking about. A satan possessed man imitating Jesus and has the ability to work miracles will fool most people, including professing Christians (that's the Apostasy).

 

[Taken]

@Marty fox What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

IS For? Gathering together Christ’s Church.
WHEN? Before Wrath from Heaven, upon the Earth, ie Last Tribulation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I will not take 1Thessalonians 4:16,17 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15 out of the context of the resurrection.
You certainly have the right to disagree with me concerning the scriptures but I disagree with you because I don't think anyone should take scripture out of context, which I honestly believe you're doing. I've always believed you shouldn't take scripture out of context to try to prove a belief. JW's didn't teach me that, so you're blaming JW's for something they had nothing to do with. Long before I knew who JW's we're I have believed that Paul when speaking to the Thessalonians in 1Thessalonians 4:16,17 and the Corinthians in 1Corinthians chapter 15 that Paul was talking about the resurrection and that's the context I'm going to keep it in.
It just seems to me you can't stand someone disagreeing with you concerning the scriptures.

Well this is sad for you. But then again because you hold to JW beliefs, I understand why you disagree.

context is always key but when Paul adds another thought within a context, one should allow the Spirit to let them see , like in Thess., that Paul is speaking of teh resurrection and the snatching of the living!

If you read all other printed materials like you read the bible, you must live in absolute confusion!

I can stand fine someone disagreeing with me. that is the point of discussion and debate, is to present ones argument.

What I cannot stand is one mauling the Scriptures like you have been taught to do.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Most people in the world have never read the bible and wouldn't know any of the things you are talking about. A satan possessed man imitating Jesus and has the ability to work miracles will fool most people, including professing Christians (that's the Apostasy).

Well I believe the apostasy went full bloom after the Apostles and first century disciples of Jesus died. The point I'm making is I agree many of those professing to follow Christ are not actually following Jesus Christ, but instead are the weeds Jesus spoke about.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Ronald Nolette said:
What I cannot stand is one mauling the Scriptures like you have been taught to do.[/QUOTE]

Like I said you and I are going to disagree. I'm not going to take 1Thessalonians 4:16,17 and 1Corinthians chapter 15 out of the context of the resurrection. You can say I'm mauling the scriptures all you want but I don't agree with you.

 

[Timtofly]

JOhn was not an eyewitness reporter. He was exiled on Patmos when He wrote revelation under the inspiration of God!

And yes there is a 7 year period in the OT, Revelation speaks of 1/2 the time when the AC rises from the dead.

"And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Sounds like an eyewitness report to me.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes the beginning of Matthew 24 is about the great tribulation of the church but then it changings to Israel.

Why would the church need to pray that it doesn't happen on the sabbath?

The early church observed the sabbath, it was Constatine and Rome that changed it to Sunday

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald Nolette said:
What I cannot stand is one mauling the Scriptures like you have been taught to do.

Like I said you and I are going to disagree. I'm not going to take 1Thessalonians 4:16,17 and 1Corinthians chapter 15 out of the context of the resurrection. You can say I'm mauling the scriptures all you want but I don't agree with you.[/QUOTE]

As you shouldn't! but when Paul introduces a new thing- you need to pay attention. I know you are not ignorant and I know you see that Paul unambiguously says that after the dead rise- those left alive are caught up. So this event called th erapture has two parts as you can read for yourself- the dead are raised and the living (not the dead) are caught up!

It is not pulling anything out of context, but reading with understanding!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Like I said you and I are going to disagree. I'm not going to take 1Thessalonians 4:16,17 and 1Corinthians chapter 15 out of the context of the resurrection. You can say I'm mauling the scriptures all you want but I don't agree with you.

As you shouldn't! but when Paul introduces a new thing- you need to pay attention. I know you are not ignorant and I know you see that Paul unambiguously says that after the dead rise- those left alive are caught up. So this event called th erapture has two parts as you can read for yourself- the dead are raised and the living (not the dead) are caught up!

It is not pulling anything out of context, but reading with understanding![/QUOTE]

You can go on and on with this, saying the same things but you and I have clearly understood each other to not agree on this.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Sounds like an eyewitness report to me.

Already explained to you I thought you were writing on a different subject.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As you shouldn't! but when Paul introduces a new thing- you need to pay attention. I know you are not ignorant and I know you see that Paul unambiguously says that after the dead rise- those left alive are caught up. So this event called th erapture has two parts as you can read for yourself- the dead are raised and the living (not the dead) are caught up!

It is not pulling anything out of context, but reading with understanding!

You can go on and on with this, saying the same things but you and I have clearly understood each other to not agree on this.[/QUOTE]


then explain to me , why you believe after the dead are raised, those that are not dead (alive) and remain (on earth) are caught up. Please explain how that is part of the resurrection.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No I did I wrote the words “the”. There is one “the great tribulation” but many tribulations

Correct and it lasts for seven years when the antichrist (the prince of the people to come Dan. 9) signs a covenant with Israel for one seven!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Or the gates of the old city of Jerusalem in the first century would of been locked

Only the old eastrern gate which was locked for only Messiah could go through it again, first.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Since Jesus said that his second presence will be as the days of Noah, I don't think the majority of the people are going to believe they are actually living in the second presence of Jesus Christ until Armageddon begins. The people of Noah's day didn't believe anything he said was true until the flood began, then they believed but it was too late for them. So I don't think people will believe they're living in the second presence of Jesus Christ until Armageddon begins, then they'll believe, but it will be too late. So I don't think people will believe that what they're going through at that time is the great tribulation . The only people I think who will know they're living in the second presence of Jesus Christ will those who actually have faith in the truth about God and his Only Begotten Son.

I know you believe that 2nd presence took place in 1914, after the watchtower until 1930 said it was 1874. So where is jesus???? If He is king- why isn't he ruling with a rod of iron as Gods Word says He will!

 

[Timtofly]

I'm not going to take 1Thessalonians 4:16, 17 or 1Corinthians chapter 15 out of context of the resurrection because that's what Paul is speaking about in those scriptures.

The death and resurrection in those chapters are about the soul leaving Adam's dead corruptible flesh for God's permanent incorruptible physical body. This flesh is temporal, God's body is permanent. Adam's flesh is of the earth, earthly. God's physical body is from above, heavenly. That is all physical death consists of; the soul leaving one body for a totally different body.

The rapture can be seen as the soul violently being taken out of Adam's dead flesh, or it can be seen as a snatching away, or a glorious event, ie rapture. That has happened every time a redeemed human has physically died for the last 1992 years. Some have left violently, some suddenly, and some it was wonderful. But none of those alive could precede those who have gone before. And all will die to Adam's flesh and blood. Call it a change or death and resurrection, they are the same thing. The term rapture today is the definition of those alive at the Second Coming who will all experience at the same time, this phenomenon.

 

[Timtofly]

So much wrong in such a little space! Are you trying to write your own bible? Cuz this isn't Gods Inspirited Word, but opinions allegorized from what God wrote and then reinterpreted by some man!

Same as your opinion unless you yourself are Jesus Christ. You can reject my opinion, but your opinion is no different as the same accusations you yourself throw around.

 

[Timtofly]

I will rip this apart from th erest of the mess!

Paul is talking about teh resurrection of the body as is promised. Believers souls and spirits are not in paradise but in heaven now!

So the Thessalonians passage is talking about sequential events for the rapture:

1. Jesus descends from heaven
2. With a shout
3. With a voice of the archangel (Michael)
4. With the trump of God (the last trump of 1 Cor. 15 and the last trump of th efeast of trump is a symbol of)
5. First the dead in Christ will rise (the bodies are yanked out of their graves)
6. THEN which connotes a second event after the first-We which are still on earth alive will be snatched up!
7. We meet th eLord in the 1 st heaven (the atmosphere)
8. And we will be with the Lord!

Just like God Inspired it as written!

Paradise is our home in the heavens. Do you seek a different city than Abraham did?

Both Jesus on the Cross and Paul told us that we go to Paradise. You can go to your own imagination, but Paradise is the Scriptural term for a place in the firmament, the redeemed go to. Since the thief on the Cross, that has been the city Abraham was looking towards.

"For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

That is Paradise.

 

[Timtofly]

Yet almost 1.2 million people died in the city

That is because they were Hebrews from all over the earth who sent a delegation to Jerusalem once a year at the Passover, to commemorate leaving Egypt.

That was the last year, because there was no temple to come to after 70AD.

These people from all over would have no use for any warnings Jesus gave 40 years prior. They were not Christians. They were the descendants of all the tribes scattered across the earth. Or descendants of converts to the Hebrew OT economy. Remember there was a curse on any nation that did not go up yearly to Jerusalem? I am pretty sure those who studied OT Scriptures were well aware of that point.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Same as your opinion unless you yourself are Jesus Christ. You can reject my opinion, but your opinion is no different as the same accusations you yourself throw around.

At least "my opinions" are based on the Word as it is written and not reinterpreted

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paradise is our home in the heavens. Do you seek a different city than Abraham did?

Both Jesus on the Cross and Paul told us that we go to Paradise. You can go to your own imagination, but Paradise is the Scriptural term for a place in the firmament, the redeemed go to. Since the thief on the Cross, that has been the city Abraham was looking towards.

"For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

That is Paradise.

Well in the New Jerusalem, there is a paradise, the garden of God, but we go to the new Jerusalem which contains paradise!