What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[Hazelelponi]

Lol I do discuss aspects of Scripture that I think collide with Monergism, bc it's good "exercise"--I get to hear the arguments from the other side, respond, and subject my view of Scripture to scrutiny (who better to bring out the weak points in my arguments, and help me improve?).

And my views have changed before...so there's always hope you'll win!

Hahaha hahaha

 

[GracePeace]

And my views have changed before...so there's always hope you'll win!

Hahaha hahaha

It matters more to me that I am satisfied with my arguments than that I change someone else's mind--also, I have questions of my own, and I hope that such discussions could help me get closer to those answers.

 

[GracePeace]

It matters more to me than I am satisfied with my arguments than that I change someone else's mind--also, I have questions of my own, and I hope that such discussions could help me get closer to those answers.

@Hazelelponi I say that, because I've learned that I can't change anyone's mind--no matter how obviously true, or how iron clad what I'm saying may be, the vast majority of people will just not listen (if they hold to a system that doesn't allow for it), but, at the end of the day, as long as I am being as truthful as I can be, I don't have to let that bother me.

Actually, I made this thread because I saw that I did not have enough room in my belief structure for "predestination", yet... there it is in Scripture, so who am I to dismiss it? It's something I haven't addressed sufficiently.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Actually, I made this thread because I saw that I did not have enough room in my belief structure for "predestination", yet... there it is in Scripture, so who am I to dismiss it? It's something I haven't addressed sufficiently.

I'm tired and taking an Internet break for a while, so maybe the thread will pick back up for you. It's a good start anyway.

God bless you. Goodnight.

 

[Ritajanice]

1 Peter 1:18-25 KJV
18) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21) Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24) For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25) But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Were it not possible that we could sin, having been born again of incorruptible seed, how is it that Peter is giving this fact as a foundation for his admonition that we love one another with a pure heart fervently? Failure to do so is sin, therefore why the admonition?

There are other places also that clearly admonish us to righteous and holy living because we have been reborn. There is more here in this chapter,

1 Peter 1:13-18 KJV
13) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15) But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17) And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

You will be judged . . . pass your time here in fear . . . knowing you weren't redeemed with corruptible . . . but incorruptible . . .

I don't take this lightly, myself.

Much love!

1 John 3:9​

9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

The seed is the word of God, that remains in our heart/ spirit, the Holy Spirit, we have been Born Again “ OF” imperishable/ incorruptible seed.

Gods Living word, the Holy Spirit, is imperishable and incorruptible........and there HIS seed continues to flourish and grow.....only the Living word of God liveth and abideth forever.....

“This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. (Luke 8:6-8, 11 NIV). Jesus defined spiritual seed. In the parable, the Lord scatters the spiritual seed, but certain unfavorable conditions prohibit growth or eliminate the opportunity for the word to take root.

Jeremiah 17:10​

“I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”

Commentary.​

I AM THE HOLY SPIRIT, GOD’S SEED​

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His (God’s) seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:9
I, the Holy Spirit, am the Seed who was planted in your life when you were born again. It was My presence that gave you eternal life, as well as a new nature and new desires. Just as a seed planted in the ground will grow and bring forth its fruit, so I, the Holy Spirit am the Seed planted in your heart who will bring forth the fruit of righteousness and godliness. A seed has all the ingredients of what it will be when fully grown, and I, the Holy Spirit, have everything you need to be completely godly and fully effective as My servant

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Like I say, does a foolish decision deserve eternal torture?

Does the foolish decision to say "No God I do not want your salvation" deserve eternal separation from God?

I guess God could force everyone to believe, but then what Kind of God would that be?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Force us? I didn't state that. Created us,is what I said.

I did not say you said that, Sorry if you took it this way

And,he also said,unless or until he calls those whom he chose to save,their names in the Lamb's Book of Life written before he created the world,which means pre-fall, we perish as fallen sinners created by God to have that damned sin nature.

Jesus paid the price,he came as the lamb slain before the world, which coincides with his Lambs Book, to fulfill that destiny of the Elect.

It all makes sense then when we scrutinize those who claim to be Christian yet don't act it.

They chose Jesus.
Yet, God did not actually let them.

And that's why their natural mind is dominant. Because Holy Spirit did not enter and change their consciousness as he does for the Elect.

Did they chose Jesus though? This is where we may differ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are called to make judgments. It DOES matter what you think.

Well in the eternal perspective yes, My eternity will depend on what I believe.

but in reality. It does not matter what I think, I do not make truth. God does.

Again, If he said if I sin I die (the death penalty) what does it matter if I sinned once or a million.. I still have the death penalty. Just because I sinned alot less does not mean I get a "get out of jail (Hell) free" card.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God is a perfect judge and he wants us to think.

Yes he is,

He will judge EVERYONE equally and fairly, He does not judge on a curve.

For the wage of sin is DEATH, the Gift of God is life..

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed.

There is Gods standard of judgment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm seriously considering leaving this forum.

I was asked by a brother in the faith to come help someone since I'm a former Muslim but that's completed and honestly, the bashing of Christians is just crazy here and it's bothering me.

So I'm thinking of going back now... Just doing my thing again.

Would love to talk to you about this. I have Muslim neighbors. would love to be able to reach out to them

I did get out of hand yesterday. I need to just ignore certain people.. I beg your appology

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I really don't understand it. All I have to do is say TULIP and they get so worked up in a frenzy your pretty sure the pitchforks are next.

I mean, it's pretty traditional Christianity. It's one of the earlier Protestant denominations..

But on this forum they like, chase you over it.

You can talk about something as Christian-neutral as homosexuality and transgender, but post it by a reformed Baptist and boom.. they go off.

I've never seen this on a forum before, ever... Usually there's some basics everyone can agree on but not here. They were in the Trump political thread after me too .. same thing.

Sadly, If you stay long enough, you will see catholics bashing protestants, Calvinist bashing arminians, Arminians bashing Calvinists etc etc. You almost have to ignore people who continue to do that.

The big problem is I believe in eternal security, so I am automatically bashed as a calvinist (which I am not) and they continue to say I believe stuff I do not .

it is sad

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And my views have changed before...so there's always hope you'll win!

Hahaha hahaha

We all need to have open hearts.. It was freeing when I opened. Alot of things I was taught I no longer believe.

 

[Red Baker]

Predestination has in every way affected my life, as to where I was born, whom my parents were, my intelligent level, my height, who my wife would be, where I would work, my siblings, etc., etc. I believe this so much, that I have a daughter named Destini, which was born before I came to know Christ, even before I ever knew the doctrine of the scriptures.

 

[Ritajanice]

Predestination means our salvation is as secure and settled as the God who selected us. If our inheritance is rooted in God—who chose us before the beginning of time—then we cannot fall away. We did nothing to gain it. We can do nothing to lose it (Rom. 8:31–39).

 

[Bob Estey]

Well in the eternal perspective yes, My eternity will depend on what I believe.

but in reality. It does not matter what I think, I do not make truth. God does.

Again, If he said if I sin I die (the death penalty) what does it matter if I sinned once or a million.. I still have the death penalty. Just because I sinned alot less does not mean I get a "get out of jail (Hell) free" card.

People are brought to trial and judgments need to be made. Parents raise children and judgments involving discipline need to me made.

 

[Ritajanice]

Predestination has in every way affected my life, as to where I was born, whom my parents were, my intelligent level, my height, who my wife would be, where I would work, my siblings, etc., etc. I believe this so much, that I have a daughter named Destini, which was born before I came to know Christ, even before I ever knew the doctrine of the scriptures.

Do you believe our life before we became Born Again, was already mapped out for us by God?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People are brought to trial and judgments need to be made. Parents raise children and judgments involving discipline need to me made.

Yes

Scripture says their will be two judgment

One is called in the greek a Bema seat judgment. This is where believers works are tried. and they are rewarded for those works. then the rewards are tried by fire

The other is the great white throne (sarx in the greek) And this is a trial of law. No believer will be at this judgment, Death and Hades are delivered here.

They are also tried for their works. But in the end their works can not help them. They are judged by how they reacted to Gods gift of salvation. They are here because they rejected the free gift of eternal life. And they are found guilty..

 

[Hazelelponi]

Sadly, If you stay long enough, you will see catholics bashing protestants, Calvinist bashing arminians, Arminians bashing Calvinists etc etc. You almost have to ignore people who continue to do that.

The big problem is I believe in eternal security, so I am automatically bashed as a calvinist (which I am not) and they continue to say I believe stuff I do not .

it is sad

I suppose maybe I have been a little sheltered since I've been saved. To a degree anyway.

I don't think we, as Christians, should get too bogged down in non essentials... But we do need some essentials back.

My husband is more Calvinist than me, but he sits around reading and studying his whole life, he's had far more exposure to historical teachers as a result. He even has a Geneva Bible (apparently the first Bible to ever land on American soil, terribly important to DH...he's very proud of it! - oh, and his is not the actual copy, it's just a copy). It's historically cool but way too difficult for me to read. Lol. Whereas he reads stuff like that for pleasure...

I stay more modern with it. I live in the modern day, though I understand my husband does not. But, he does help me track down any "in modern English" copies of books which I find helpful. I can read those instead of asking for translations... Hahaha

Eternal security, yep.. people don't like that either, but I do actually believe in God's promises. God would cease being God if He lost even 1 of His own.

Good Shepherds don't leave the back gate open for the coyotes to come in and kill the sheep at night.

I have to get my husband out the door for the day. When I come back I'll try and add something on divine providence and divine decree, if the typing doesn't take too long.

There's a few good paragraphs I can share from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, but I have the physical book so I'll have to transcribe over.

 

[marks]

1 John 3:9​

9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

The seed is the word of God, that remains in our heart/ spirit, the Holy Spirit, we have been Born Again “ OF” imperishable/ incorruptible seed.

Gods Living word, the Holy Spirit, is imperishable and incorruptible........and there HIS seed continues to flourish and grow.....only the Living word of God liveth and abideth forever.....

“This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. (Luke 8:6-8, 11 NIV). Jesus defined spiritual seed. In the parable, the Lord scatters the spiritual seed, but certain unfavorable conditions prohibit growth or eliminate the opportunity for the word to take root.

Jeremiah 17:10​

“I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”

Commentary.​

I AM THE HOLY SPIRIT, GOD’S SEED​

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His (God’s) seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:9
I, the Holy Spirit, am the Seed who was planted in your life when you were born again. It was My presence that gave you eternal life, as well as a new nature and new desires. Just as a seed planted in the ground will grow and bring forth its fruit, so I, the Holy Spirit am the Seed planted in your heart who will bring forth the fruit of righteousness and godliness. A seed has all the ingredients of what it will be when fully grown, and I, the Holy Spirit, have everything you need to be completely godly and fully effective as My servant

You've countered, but you've not responded to what I wrote.

What others have said is correct, that where John wrote,

1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is in the present tense, not aorist, or another tense that would mean single acts of sin, but in the present tense, this is ongoing, now, and now, and now, and now, and now, like that.

And of course in this letter John wrote, Little children, I write these things to you that you may not sin, and if any do sin, we have an advocate, Jesus. He acknowledges that sin remains possible in our lives.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I should never have gotten off on tangents--the thread has completely lost its way. LOL

Nothing wrong with a few rabbit trails... we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time!

Don;t think of it is eternal torture. Think of it as eternal seperation

Which is... eternal torture.

Being in a place where there is NO life of God... is torture

Only the super gullible are tricked by the devil to believe annihilationism and reject God's Word on this topic.

I was asked by a brother in the faith to come help someone since I'm a former Muslim but that's completed and honestly, the bashing of Christians is just crazy here and it's bothering me.

Sounds like you are still weak in the faith... If you get upset here, don't go out and witness in public becuase you'll get cussed out and maybe even slapped upside yo head!

Get used to it, the devil is constantly going to be attacking Christians in one form or another your entire life because this is what he does... he's the adversary.

Christians need to embrace... rebellion!
Not rebellion against God, but rebellion against that which is in opposition to God.

Jesus walked in continual opposition to the darkness of this world and never once gave in to it to allow it to get under His skin so to speak.

What the devil says and does to try and get us upset should roll off us like water off a duck's back!

Maybe they haven't attacked you yet. Which is a good thing.

Even if they did, so what? It's just words on a screen... exercise self control and ignore them!

Then move on to some other discussion.