I don't think it's wise for me, at this point when my heart isn't convinced either way, to choose whether I believe in the rapture or not. It doesn't matter to me. I need Christ's protection every day, and He will be with me until the end regardless. What I am interested in knowing is "what is the next prophesy to be fullfilled?" I really get confused reading Daniel and Revelations and Ezekiel. Just if someone can tell me what we're looking for next? Maybe it's Christ's return, maybe something else. What do you think?
What prophesy are we looking for next?
- Thread starter dougishere
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The Rapture Doctrine is not a necessary ingredient for salvation. One need not to decide that in order to know how to live their lives in a Godly and Righteous manner.
My considered opinion is this: If we spend all our time with our noses in the Bible trying to discern this or that we've missed the entire message, "Go and disciple (teach) the nations of the earth (everyone)".
Our faith is an ACTIVE faith, not one for us spend our every waking moment sitting there torturing heresy after heresy out of the pages of scripture.
My considered opinion is this: If we spend all our time with our noses in the Bible trying to discern this or that we've missed the entire message, "Go and disciple (teach) the nations of the earth (everyone)".
Our faith is an ACTIVE faith, not one for us spend our every waking moment sitting there torturing heresy after heresy out of the pages of scripture.
Definitely, the Rapture is next, although I am looking at Damascus, in Syria, as important.
Isaiah 17:1
This message came to me concerning Damascus: “Look, the city of Damascus will disappear!
It will become a heap of ruins.
I'm starting to think that some of the new folk here are coming from the "Rapture believing forum", I sometimes frequent....hmmm 
- Dec 31, 2010
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It's a simple matter of staying in God's Word daily, while being given to understand the signs of the end Christ gave us, and by simply comparing those signs to the times and events in the world. If all believers on Christ Jesus today were asked if they believe His return is still at least a thousand years future, I seriously doubt many of them would agree, but would suggest much sooner, even believers that have not... been paying close attention to the Biblical signs would tend to agree it's sooner. (I exclude the 'fringe' elements among Christianity, like Full Preterism that wrongly believes Christ's future Millennium reign has already begun.)
What I see as of today:
The Revelation seals, trumpets, and vials occur in parallel to each other, not in three separate time sets like the way they were given John and written down. Christ specifically gave 3 Woe periods in conjunction with the last 3 trumpets (5th, 6th, 7th). That reveals the trumpet-woe events occur in order. The existence of a temple in Jerusalem for the time of God's two witnesses to appear there is to occur within... the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period (from Rev.9:12 to Rev.11:13, the Rev.10 chapter being parenthetical like a topic break). Christ's return is on the 7th trumpet - 3rd last Woe period per that same Rev.11 chapter.
The time of God 'sealing' His saints per the Rev.7 and Rev.9 Scripture before the four winds blow (Christ's coming), is on the 5th trumpet - 1st Woe period (Rev.9:1 to Rev.9:12). That's about a sealing by The Holy Spirit away from deception by the coming pseudo-Christ (Antichrist; 2nd beast of Rev.13:11). That time of 'sealing' is where I strongly... believe where we are today. Orthodox Judaism in Jerusalem has all the materials ready for building another temple in Jerusalem. The only thing preventing the start of its construction today is the middleast peace proccess.
Legislation in the U.S. and Europe is now in place which allows its governments to arrest its citizens and retain them on mere suspicion, many citizen's rights per the U.S. Constitution now having the ability to be suspended. Legislation has been passed since over a year ago to allow FEMA to build internment camps on U.S. military bases. Movement towards those kind of things upon U.S. citizens reveals the possibility of a coming police state. And the fact that it's happening in one of the most traditional freedom-loving citizen-protecting nation like the U.S., shows it as a specific end time Biblical sign. Some of Christ's elect are to be delivered up to councils during the coming tribulation (Matt.10; Matt.24).
We as Christian believers on The Saviour Jesus Christ are... to be watching the signs of the end He gave us in His Word in order to... 'be ready' for His coming. His Book of Revelation is specifically about 'the unveiling' of end time events. So those who don't care to take the time to study it do so of their 'own' personal desires, and that without Scripture support for such a decision.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Doug - I think you have a great opportunity to live in the moment with Christ - doctrine is great, but recognizing the love Christ has for you every minute will give you the courage and strength to live and succeed.
Hi dougishere,
If you ask someone how many miles to a distant city which you believe to be "x" miles, one person could say "y" miles, and another say "z" miles. Are you any closer to the truth? But if someone had a map, they could show you approximately how many miles with some basis.
Would you be interested in learning to read the map for yourself?
Hi rockytopva,
You are correct, given that Daniel 11:40 is a parallel depiction, (thus there are TWO passages).
And yes, please explain.
And if I might equally request from this Forum, -- what was the most recent prophecy?
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shabbat shalom, Doug.
I believe the answer is clear in Yeshua`s own words:
Matt 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
He will not return until they - the elders of the tribe of Y'hudah - can say those words. The sentence comes from Psalm 118:22-26:
Ps 118:22-26
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV
The Hebrew of this sentence (transliterated) is "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHVH," and it means, "Welcome, Comer in the authority of YaHuWH (or YaHWeH)."
Besides the children and the few disciples, none of the elders of Y'hudah - the P'rushiym, the cohaniym, the Levi'iym (the Pharisees, the priests, the Levites) and the rest of the Sanhedrin - accepted Him as God's Messiah! In fact, they actually REFUSED to accept Him as being God's Messiah, they were "the builders who refused the stone!"
The Hebrew words from which the words "Save now" were translated are "Y'hosha` na," which was transliterated into the Greek as "Hosanna!" Thus, the elders - the ones who are to be the leaders of the tribe - never fulfilled the prophecy of the psalm! ...BUT, they will!
Seven hundred years before His timely birth,
A prophet of great boldness came to tell the men of earth
That there would come a powerful man anointed to be King;
Of His surprising miracles the populace would sing:
Of healing pow’r to make blind see and deaf to hear His voice,
Of pow’r to even raise the dead and cause men to rejoice!
Of all these things and so much more the children would sing songs,
But … only children welcomed Him to remedy their wrongs.
A song was written years before Isaiah was a child,
Predicting that Christ won’t fit into systems then gone wild:
“The builders of the pyr’mid said, ‘The stone does not fit in!’
When they were done, it capped the work and much to their chagrin!”
The Messiah was rejected, ridiculed, and slain …;
But to the shock of all involved, He came to life again!
But, He did not then cap the work of which the song declared.
Instead, He left the earth until He hears the message dared:
“We care not whether you were He of whom the Christians claim;
We only know we need you now, or we will die in shame!
We’ve heard of you, Messiah fair, and of your pow’r we read;
Please come and rescue us, dear Sire, in this our time of need!
“If you won’t save us now, there will be no one left to save.
The nation Isra’el is doomed, and we can see our grave.”
And in the nation Isra’el’s gloomiest, darkest hour,
Will come the Prince (not yet the King) in majesty and pow’r!
And when they see Messiah diving down with kingly steed,
And all the thousands following to aid the ones in need,
Then shouts of victory will echo all across the land
With sighs of relief and gasps of awe as He saves with mighty hand!
And then will He be made a King, accepted now at last!
And then a King o’er many kings as one by one they ask!
Ah, but for now He is the Christ——anointed to be King,
And although He is not King now, he will be in the “Spring ….”
For now, the “Winter” slowly drags with vernal guarantees,
And time goes on at God’s own pace with thoughtfulness and ease.
He fills each age with purpose and a reason for each pause:
To get the most from every age and weed out all the flaws.
So boast not, Christian Gentile, for you are grafted in
To share Messiah’s bounty prematurely! Do not sin!
If God spared not the people whom He worked with many years,
What will He do if you should speak against them without tears?
The Scriptures say so little ’bout this time in which we live,
Could it be that we’ve read into it much more than He did give?
Why must we feel that we’re the ones for whom the sun must shine?
Why do we think we’re all who’ll be at the marriage feast to dine?
Get rid of that old foolish pride! We’re grafted in, I say!
This high-and-mighty attitude will come to humbler day!
It should be crushing blow to think that Christ’s return will be
When Isra’el cries, “If you will come, we’ll surely kneel to Thee.”
I believe the answer is clear in Yeshua`s own words:
Matt 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
He will not return until they - the elders of the tribe of Y'hudah - can say those words. The sentence comes from Psalm 118:22-26:
Ps 118:22-26
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV
The Hebrew of this sentence (transliterated) is "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHVH," and it means, "Welcome, Comer in the authority of YaHuWH (or YaHWeH)."
Besides the children and the few disciples, none of the elders of Y'hudah - the P'rushiym, the cohaniym, the Levi'iym (the Pharisees, the priests, the Levites) and the rest of the Sanhedrin - accepted Him as God's Messiah! In fact, they actually REFUSED to accept Him as being God's Messiah, they were "the builders who refused the stone!"
The Hebrew words from which the words "Save now" were translated are "Y'hosha` na," which was transliterated into the Greek as "Hosanna!" Thus, the elders - the ones who are to be the leaders of the tribe - never fulfilled the prophecy of the psalm! ...BUT, they will!
Seven hundred years before His timely birth,
A prophet of great boldness came to tell the men of earth
That there would come a powerful man anointed to be King;
Of His surprising miracles the populace would sing:
Of healing pow’r to make blind see and deaf to hear His voice,
Of pow’r to even raise the dead and cause men to rejoice!
Of all these things and so much more the children would sing songs,
But … only children welcomed Him to remedy their wrongs.
A song was written years before Isaiah was a child,
Predicting that Christ won’t fit into systems then gone wild:
“The builders of the pyr’mid said, ‘The stone does not fit in!’
When they were done, it capped the work and much to their chagrin!”
The Messiah was rejected, ridiculed, and slain …;
But to the shock of all involved, He came to life again!
But, He did not then cap the work of which the song declared.
Instead, He left the earth until He hears the message dared:
“We care not whether you were He of whom the Christians claim;
We only know we need you now, or we will die in shame!
We’ve heard of you, Messiah fair, and of your pow’r we read;
Please come and rescue us, dear Sire, in this our time of need!
“If you won’t save us now, there will be no one left to save.
The nation Isra’el is doomed, and we can see our grave.”
And in the nation Isra’el’s gloomiest, darkest hour,
Will come the Prince (not yet the King) in majesty and pow’r!
And when they see Messiah diving down with kingly steed,
And all the thousands following to aid the ones in need,
Then shouts of victory will echo all across the land
With sighs of relief and gasps of awe as He saves with mighty hand!
And then will He be made a King, accepted now at last!
And then a King o’er many kings as one by one they ask!
Ah, but for now He is the Christ——anointed to be King,
And although He is not King now, he will be in the “Spring ….”
For now, the “Winter” slowly drags with vernal guarantees,
And time goes on at God’s own pace with thoughtfulness and ease.
He fills each age with purpose and a reason for each pause:
To get the most from every age and weed out all the flaws.
So boast not, Christian Gentile, for you are grafted in
To share Messiah’s bounty prematurely! Do not sin!
If God spared not the people whom He worked with many years,
What will He do if you should speak against them without tears?
The Scriptures say so little ’bout this time in which we live,
Could it be that we’ve read into it much more than He did give?
Why must we feel that we’re the ones for whom the sun must shine?
Why do we think we’re all who’ll be at the marriage feast to dine?
Get rid of that old foolish pride! We’re grafted in, I say!
This high-and-mighty attitude will come to humbler day!
It should be crushing blow to think that Christ’s return will be
When Isra’el cries, “If you will come, we’ll surely kneel to Thee.”
This is what is next
(1Jn 3:2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
If one were sufficiently proficient to offer the "next" prophetic fulfillment, then they should equally be able to identify the immediate previous. And where they cannot offer both, I would observe they cannot offer either with anything more than a lucky guess, as presented by "rockytopva".
But for the rest the future is as uncertain for them as you've stated it is for you.
But for the rest the future is as uncertain for them as you've stated it is for you.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
If that were true, then Christ's giving of His Book of Revelation to His Church on earth would have been a useless and meaningless work. One with that view might as well heed the words of evolutionists today instead, and all the Mayan calendar hype as well.
That's an example of a pridefull belief in the elders of Judah, and not in Christ Jesus' Own words there.
The time of Christ's return is not dependent upon ANY man.
Those will not say that until... they see Christ's coming per Rev.1:7. It's Christ's coming that make them say that.
Ummmmm, I don't believe Jesus is fulfilled in Daniel 11:
[sup]21[/sup] In his place shall arise a contemptible person to whom royal majesty has not been given.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Two answers for the same question?
And if I might, -- it wasn't Alexander, or Antiochus. It was Ford:
Daniel 12
4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
...
[sup]9[/sup] And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Sorry Veteran, I missed reading your post until just now.
My point was that if someone offers to explain future prophecies, that they should equally be able to explain past prophecies, -- not that Scripture doesn't answer these.
So if you explain the prophecies-which-are-future as defined in your Post #8, then you should certainly be able to provide an account of the prophecies-which-are-past. Certainly the latter is easier than the former, and it's verifiable.
