When He Returns!

[ScottA]

And we could point fingers and go around and around. But how do you deal with passages like this?

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. - John 14:3

And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” - Acts 1:9–11

There are so many more, but just these two, clearly teach both a going and a coming.
Yes, he teaches he will be with us, within us always. The Holy Spirit is that promise, and we have that now and we walk in that blessing, truth and power now. There is no doubt.
However, you cannot ignore, brush aside, or deny what these verses are saying. Jesus physically left...he will physically return. This was the expectation of the Apostles. Why is it not your expectation? Why is it not your longing?


Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:8

1. Jesus, if He has gone (to prepare a place) and has also come to anyone in spirit - has already returned. Having lowered Himself and become flesh at His first coming, did you think that after being raised up in the spirit to be with the Father whom is spirit, He would give up His glory to take up the flesh again after it was dead, resurrected, and transformed into the likeness of God (whom is spirit)? No, but of course He would come again in the spiritual glory of the Father - and has.
2. "The same way as you saw him go into heaven" has two perspectives: 1) that of men, and 2) that of God...which are as different as heaven and earth. Why would you assume the angel of the Lord meant "the same way as" the world...when the subject was not the world, but heaven? The perspective of men...is simply wrong.
3. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One, just as He and the Father are One. So then, "another Helper" otherwise known as the Holy Spirit, is not incorrect - but God is One. When you see Him, do you not think He will be All in All? Don't think that just because God has shown Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that He is divided in the way that you have stated it, as if the Holy Spirit has come, He has not come also. If you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father also, and if you have not seen the Holy Spirit in the flesh, it is only because the spirit is not visible to the flesh. But God is spirit, and if you have not already seen Him as He is, it is because you are not spirit, as He is - but that day is coming. On the contrary, that day is not a day when God will be as we are - heaven forbid.

So...I have not "ignored, brushed aside, or denied what these verses say" at all, but have understood them, not as men see, but in the spirit (from God's perspective).

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus, if He has gone (to prepare a place) and has also come to anyone in spirit - has already returned.

It seems that you are (a) skeptical about what Christ said and (b) confused about the second coming of Christ.

John 14:1-3 is CRYSTAL CLEAR that Christ has gone to Heaven to prepare a place for His Church, and He will come again to receive them unto Himself, so that they too will be in Heaven. This is a passage about the Rapture, not the second coming.

Because Christ come to indwell believers in the Spirit does not nullify the fact that He will return to other in His glorious and glorified body. That too is clearly stated in Scripture. So He has not "already returned".

Having lowered Himself and become flesh at His first coming, did you think that after being raised up in the spirit to be with the Father whom is spirit, He would give up His glory to take up the flesh again after it was dead, resurrected, and transformed into the likeness of God (whom is spirit)? No, but of course He would come again in the spiritual glory of the Father - and has.

This shows that you have not understood what happened after the ascension of Christ, and what will happen at the second coming. Christ is presently in Heaven at the right hand of the Father (and glorified) and there is no plan to "give up His glory" when He has already stated that He will return to earth with power and GREAT GLORY. That is certainly not "taking up the flesh".

 

[ScottA]

Well, straight you did not make it.

You have denied the Spirit of Christ in a person, or the return of Jesus Christ, or both. I am not sure. Which is it?

No, this is not the time of the Shepherd dividing the sheep from the goats. Where do you get that?

Stranger

It is also the time of the saints reigning with Christ as kings and priests. But...if "the end" is truly the end and not a lie, is it not obvious that "all things" come before the end?

And if Christ is with me and I with Him as One, is He not a king and a priest, and does He not reign and me also - even now, because of Him?

 

[Stranger]

It is also the time of the saints reigning with Christ as kings and priests. But...if "the end" is truly the end and not a lie, is it not obvious that "all things" come before the end?

And if Christ is with me and I with Him as One, is He not a king and a priest, and does He not reign and me also - even now, because of Him?

The saints are not reigning at this time. And Christ is not reigning on the earth at this time.

Just because you belong to Christ does not mean Christ is reigning on the earth. When Christ reigns on the earth, the earth will obey His will. That is yet future.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

It seems that you are (a) skeptical about what Christ said and (b) confused about the second coming of Christ.

John 14:1-3 is CRYSTAL CLEAR that Christ has gone to Heaven to prepare a place for His Church, and He will come again to receive them unto Himself, so that they too will be in Heaven. This is a passage about the Rapture, not the second coming.

Because Christ come to indwell believers in the Spirit does not nullify the fact that He will return to other in His glorious and glorified body. That too is clearly stated in Scripture. So He has not "already returned".

Again, you accuse me of the very thing you yourself are confused about.

You are speaking of things taught by men which are not according to the scriptures, but misunderstood by many. You even use the words that are not from the scriptures, but from men. This is double-talk. You would do better to ask questions and listen.

If the Son has come to you in spirit, this is the glory of the Father and place where He is that you might be also. Is that not the promise and the word from Him? Why then do you look for Him to lower Himself again, rather than you being raised up, which is according to the promise? Why do you expect to say "Look here!" or "Look there!", when He specifically said that is not how He comes?

This shows that you have not understood what happened after the ascension of Christ, and what will happen at the second coming. Christ is presently in Heaven at the right hand of the Father (and glorified) and there is no plan to "give up His glory" when He has already stated that He will return to earth with power and GREAT GLORY. That is certainly not "taking up the flesh".

No, this shows that you have not understood that "the end" is the end, and nothing remains. "It is finished."

Do you not know that "GREAT GLORY" can only be in spirit, as God is spirit? And do you not know that you attempting to put the things of God on a timeline, is evil? You are thinking and speaking as men do, when you should be seeking Him and His kingdom first...wherein there is no timeline.

 

[ScottA]

The saints are not reigning at this time. And Christ is not reigning on the earth at this time.

Just because you belong to Christ does not mean Christ is reigning on the earth. When Christ reigns on the earth, the earth will obey His will. That is yet future.

Stranger

That is just you talking.

Christ reigns and is with us here and now. Why do you suggest that He does not reign when from His own mouth He has said "all authority in heaven and in the earth has been given to me?" Do you have more authority than He, that you should now contradict Him?

The earth is fallen, and fading away. But you misunderstand...His "strength is made perfect in weakness" while men are unaware.

 

[Stranger]

That is just you talking.

Christ reigns and is with us here and now. Why do you suggest that He does not reign when from His own mouth He has said "all authority in heaven and in the earth has been given to me?" Do you have more authority than He, that you should now contradict Him?

The earth is fallen, and fading away. But you misunderstand...His "strength is made perfect in weakness" while men are unaware.

That is just you talking.

I did not say Christ did not have all authority. I said He is not reigning yet on the earth. See (Ps. 110:1) and (Rev. 11:15).

Stranger

 

[Taken]

It seems that you are (a) skeptical about what Christ said and (b) confused about the second coming of Christ.

John 14:1-3 is CRYSTAL CLEAR that Christ has gone to Heaven to prepare a place for His Church, and He will come again to receive them unto Himself, so that they too will be in Heaven. This is a passage about the Rapture, not the second coming.

Because Christ come to indwell believers in the Spirit does not nullify the fact that He will return to other in His glorious and glorified body. That too is clearly stated in Scripture. So He has not "already returned".


This shows that you have not understood what happened after the ascension of Christ, and what will happen at the second coming. Christ is presently in Heaven at the right hand of the Father (and glorified) and there is no plan to "give up His glory" when He has already stated that He will return to earth with power and GREAT GLORY. That is certainly not "taking up the flesh".

I would say;
Jesus First appeared AS a man, Without "reputation / Power, a Jewish man, who took upon Himself, the Line of "genealogy/seed of a Faithful Man, ie Abraham, thus making Jesus, a Son of Man, And, thus fulfilling the Jewish Law, that the next TO be Seated in King David's everlasting Throne as King, had to be a Jew.

While Jesus was on Earth, little by little His Power begins being revealed, as He having Not come with His Power, His Power is sent Down From Heaven TO HIM.

And Finally the Disciples Are Told, by God in Heaven That Jesus, their teacher, Friend, this man of God, Is Thee Christ Messiah and Power of God.

When Jesus Ascends to the Clouds, as He is rising up He is receiving the Glory He HAD with the Father, Before He came to Earth, without His Reputation.

(This is the similar way Christ's Church will be raptured...up to the clouds, rising in a glorified body.)

When The Lord Returns...
He descends To the clouds...
Calls up His Church...
His glorified bodily Church, THEY
See Christ...As He is: not a man...but Spirit.

Before Christ Continues His Descent from the Clouds TO the Earth....

The Earths Judgement commences;
Seven, seals, trumpets, bowls are opened, the seventh over lapping the first.

The people left on the earth, suffer the consequences of Gods Wrath upon the Earth.

Before the fifth seal is opened, Jews who remained faithful are redeemed.

After the wrath upon the earth, and Jesus steps DOWN ON THE EARTH....

ALL EYES SHALL SEE HIM DESCEND...
ALL (holy and fallen) Spiritual eyes, Saints spiritual eyes, and human eyes (who SEE a man, ie as Jesus comes to earth AS tHE Son of Man....and POWER AND GLORY, who IS Christ.

So, it depends on WHO one is, as to HOW they WILL SEE Jesus Return TO Earth.

The People are dealt with who rejected God. And the battle between Fallen and Holy angels, with many saints and Jesus takes place.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

And do you not know that you attempting to put the things of God on a timeline, is evil?

I have yet to see a more absurd remark about the second coming of Christ.

It is God who has set the timeline, whether you believe it or not. Looks like you have been strongly influenced by some denominational teaching which is man made. Time to untangle yourself and study Scripture.

PAST
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet [the mount of Olives], which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. (Acts 1:11,12).

FUTURE
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Zech 14:3,4)

Has the Lord returned visibly and physically to the Mount of Olives from where He ascended? NO

Has the Mount of Olives been split into two? NO

Has the Lord gone forth to fight against nations? NO

Was Zechariah speaking evil by prophesying about the return of Christ to the Mount of Olives? Absolutely not.

 

[Naomi25]

1. Jesus, if He has gone (to prepare a place) and has also come to anyone in spirit - has already returned. Having lowered Himself and become flesh at His first coming, did you think that after being raised up in the spirit to be with the Father whom is spirit, He would give up His glory to take up the flesh again after it was dead, resurrected, and transformed into the likeness of God (whom is spirit)? No, but of course He would come again in the spiritual glory of the Father - and has.

Wait, wait...so. You think that Christ did NOT retain his physical body after his resurrection?
Well, there's your first assumption, and mistake. Christ outright said he had flesh and blood.

But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them. - Luke 24:37–43

“Men of Galilee, they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” - Acts 1:11

Now, considering Jesus told us that he was NOT a spirit, that he had flesh and blood, and that we are also told that the SAME Jesus will return, it really seems that you have leapt to a conclusion not supported by scripture, doesn't it? And from there it's no wonder you've made more problematic conclusions.

You also seem to go on and assume that Christ being with us "in spirit" must mean exactly that, that instead of rising physically, he rose spiritually and then, what? Remained here with us after a quick jaunt up to see the Father? But again, you ignore scripture repeatedly when Jesus tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that will be with us, and IN THAT WAY, Christ will always be with us. So, how do you deal with all these scriptures that tell us, repeatedly, that this "helper", which is sent by the Father, on behalf of the Son, will spend his time pointing us to Christ; things he said and did so we can worship him in spirit and truth.


And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. - John 14:16–17

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. - John 14:26

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning. - John 15:26–27

But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. - John 16:5–7

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. - John 16:13–15

"The same way as you saw him go into heaven" has two perspectives: 1) that of men, and 2) that of God...which are as different as heaven and earth. Why would you assume the angel of the Lord meant "the same way as" the world...when the subject was not the world, but heaven? The perspective of men...is simply wrong.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One, just as He and the Father are One. So then, "another Helper" otherwise known as the Holy Spirit, is not incorrect - but God is One. When you see Him, do you not think He will be All in All? Don't think that just because God has shown Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that He is divided in the way that you have stated it, as if the Holy Spirit has come, He has not come also. If you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father also, and if you have not seen the Holy Spirit in the flesh, it is only because the spirit is not visible to the flesh. But God is spirit, and if you have not already seen Him as He is, it is because you are not spirit, as He is - but that day is coming. On the contrary, that day is not a day when God will be as we are - heaven forbid.
So...I have not "ignored, brushed aside, or denied what these verses say" at all, but have understood them, not as men see, but in the spirit (from God's perspective).

Of course! Why should we understand anything God says to us as men? Why would God talk to us as men? Surely he knows we understand things as he does...pfft, what was I thinking!
Oh, wait. We ARE men, he created us as such, and he speaks to us as such all throughout scripture. In fact, he sent his Son to us so that we may have a divine intermediary. That means we know that Christ has experienced what we, mortal men do, and we have a chance of looking at and seeing God in all his loving glory. He came down to us, lowered himself to our level. If that is not God "talking to us as men", then I don't know what is. You're attempt to brush aside the plain logic of the text to put your own spin on it doesn't do you any favors. Sorry.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Episkopos ~ Stumpmaster

Eph 5:25-27
Is a directional teaching that applies to men not converted.

Converted men ARE cleansed and ARE sanctified and prepared to be redeemed and ARE redeemed when Jesus descends FROM Heaven TO the Clouds and calls up HIS CHURCH (ie the Converted), TO the Clouds.
THEY arise UP (pre trib) to Jesus IN Glorified Bodies, and SEE Christ "as He is".
God Bless,
Taken

Incorrect. Ephesians is addressed to the saints at Ephesus. The man of sin/that Wicked/the false prophet/second beast from the earth will not deceive the elect but all others will be under the delusion that he is to be worshipped as God when his regime apears to bring unity the world.
Eph 1:1
(1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

 

[bbyrd009]

Converted men ARE cleansed and ARE sanctified and prepared to be redeemed and ARE redeemed when Jesus descends FROM Heaven TO the Clouds and calls up HIS CHURCH (ie the Converted), TO the Clouds.
THEY arise UP (pre trib) to Jesus IN Glorified Bodies, and SEE Christ "as He is".

so, this is that and that is this, and wadr i would at least keep an open mind there ok
Return to Me, and I will return to you
addresses that perspective perfectly imo

 

[Taken]

so, this is that and that is this, and wadr i would at least keep an open mind there ok
Return to Me, and I will return to you
addresses that perspective perfectly imo

How does a man born in sin "return" to the Lord the man was born against?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Incorrect. Ephesians is addressed to the saints at Ephesus. The man of sin/that Wicked/the false prophet/second beast from the earth will not deceive the elect but all others will be under the delusion that he is to be worshipped as God when his regime apears to bring unity the world.
Eph 1:1
(1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

TO the "saints" which are at Ephesus.

What do you believe "qualifies" a man To be called a "saint"?

Converted?
Sanctified?
Something else?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

How does a man born in sin "return" to the Lord the man was born against?

God Bless,
Taken

i give up, how?

 

[ScottA]

That is just you talking.

I did not say Christ did not have all authority. I said He is not reigning yet on the earth. See (Ps. 110:1) and (Rev. 11:15).

Stranger

So...you don't believe that "His enemies are His footstool" and "the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of the Lord" means "having all authority in heaven and on the earth" - which He said happened way back then.

Well, you're wrong.

 

[ScottA]

I have yet to see a more absurd remark about the second coming of Christ.

It is God who has set the timeline, whether you believe it or not. Looks like you have been strongly influenced by some denominational teaching which is man made. Time to untangle yourself and study Scripture.

PAST
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet [the mount of Olives], which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. (Acts 1:11,12).

FUTURE
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Zech 14:3,4)

Has the Lord returned visibly and physically to the Mount of Olives from where He ascended? NO

Has the Mount of Olives been split into two? NO

Has the Lord gone forth to fight against nations? NO

Was Zechariah speaking evil by prophesying about the return of Christ to the Mount of Olives? Absolutely not.

You are reading the words as men read, who are both of God and of the devil. Thus, they must be discerned spiritually, which you have not done, but have made the letter your law, rather than the spirit.

The correct answers to your questions, are:

1. The Lord does not return "visibly", but as it is written, is "in like manner." The "manner" which this refers to is the manner [of God], whom "is spirit." Thus, He returns in spirit. Has He not come to you in spirit? As for the "mount of Olives", this spiritually refers to the mount of God, which is not upon the earth, but with the Father - where He went, and where He has been now for two millennia.
2. Indeed, the mount of Olives (being the mount of God) has been split in two, and continues to be spit. This is the judgement, the light being divided from the darkness, which happens daily.
3. Yes, the Lord has gone forth to fight against the nations - from before the foundation of the world.

 

[ScottA]

Wait, wait...so. You think that Christ did NOT retain his physical body after his resurrection?
Well, there's your first assumption, and mistake. Christ outright said he had flesh and blood.

But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them. - Luke 24:37–43

“Men of Galilee, they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” - Acts 1:11

Now, considering Jesus told us that he was NOT a spirit, that he had flesh and blood, and that we are also told that the SAME Jesus will return, it really seems that you have leapt to a conclusion not supported by scripture, doesn't it? And from there it's no wonder you've made more problematic conclusions.

You also seem to go on and assume that Christ being with us "in spirit" must mean exactly that, that instead of rising physically, he rose spiritually and then, what? Remained here with us after a quick jaunt up to see the Father? But again, you ignore scripture repeatedly when Jesus tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that will be with us, and IN THAT WAY, Christ will always be with us. So, how do you deal with all these scriptures that tell us, repeatedly, that this "helper", which is sent by the Father, on behalf of the Son, will spend his time pointing us to Christ; things he said and did so we can worship him in spirit and truth.


And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. - John 14:16–17

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. - John 14:26

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning. - John 15:26–27

But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. - John 16:5–7

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. - John 16:13–15



Of course! Why should we understand anything God says to us as men? Why would God talk to us as men? Surely he knows we understand things as he does...pfft, what was I thinking!
Oh, wait. We ARE men, he created us as such, and he speaks to us as such all throughout scripture. In fact, he sent his Son to us so that we may have a divine intermediary. That means we know that Christ has experienced what we, mortal men do, and we have a chance of looking at and seeing God in all his loving glory. He came down to us, lowered himself to our level. If that is not God "talking to us as men", then I don't know what is. You're attempt to brush aside the plain logic of the text to put your own spin on it doesn't do you any favors. Sorry.

No, I do not "think" what I have written, but know it.

But you are thinking as men think. There is the resurrection of the flesh by Christ, but it is not to be confused with the resurrection of men...except in miracles. His resurrection was just as that of Lazarus, which was to show that Jesus had the power over death and that the Father had sent Him. But the resurrection unto life everlasting is better understood by what was seen of Jesus in His ascension - which was His transformation from the flesh into spirit - as the Father is spirit. This is eternal life.

As for the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One, just as Jesus and the Father are One. Therefore, it was good of God to separate them for a time and revelation, but wrong for you to speak of them as separate when speaking of matters of God. Likewise, it is good to praise each separately as they come to us, but not to use one against the other to divide the word of truth as you perceive it, where they are not actually separate, but One. Thus, when Jesus gave praise to the Father it was good. But when Jesus said "I am", they were One and the same. Likewise, "another Helper" is not incorrect coming from Jesus, but from a man...it is most incorrect, for they are One, and He has only referred to each separately, as a Father speaking to his children who do not yet understand all that the Father does. Therefore, He told them, "I have many more things to say to you, but you are not able to bear it now."

God is One.

 

[Taken]

i give up, how?

Why ask me? Check your own quote post #72 last sentence.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Naomi25]

No, I do not "think" what I have written, but know it.

But you are thinking as men think. There is the resurrection of the flesh by Christ, but it is not to be confused with the resurrection of men...except in miracles. His resurrection was just as that of Lazarus, which was to show that Jesus had the power over death and that the Father had sent Him. But the resurrection unto life everlasting is better understood by what was seen of Jesus in His ascension - which was His transformation from the flesh into spirit - as the Father is spirit. This is eternal life.

As for the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One, just as Jesus and the Father are One. Therefore, it was good of God to separate them for a time and revelation, but wrong for you to speak of them as separate when speaking of matters of God. Likewise, it is good to praise each separately as they come to us, but not to use one against the other to divide the word of truth as you perceive it, where they are not actually separate, but One. Thus, when Jesus gave praise to the Father it was good. But when Jesus said "I am", they were One and the same. Likewise, "another Helper" is not incorrect coming from Jesus, but from a man...it is most incorrect, for they are One, and He has only referred to each separately, as a Father speaking to his children who do not yet understand all that the Father does. Therefore, He told them, "I have many more things to say to you, but you are not able to bear it now."

God is One.

Yeah, well, I might stick with my scriptures over your say so, if you don't mind. And in the end we'll just have to see, won't we? But I think it's time to leave it...