Which generation is "this generation"?

[shnarkle]

There is nothing in the text of the parable that would indicate that the keeper of the vineyard would be pruning any of the branches of the fig tree.

This would be to assume the keeper has no business tending to fig trees to begin with. Fig trees need at least half of their branches removed for their first pruning, dead wood needs to be removed, etc. There is no good reason to assume pruning wouldn't be involved.

 

[ScottA]

ScottA your slip is showing, are you on the look out for a companion to spend time with? Well sadly, I think that companion has found you.

Quotable.

 

[ScottA]

brakelite, I posted on that passage recently, where from memory, I said that priesthood of the Levities was going to be taken from them and given to the other, i.e. the other tribes of Israel as well as the Gentiles graft into the vine. When the original Kingdom of Priests, etc covenant was entered into at Mt Sinai, all of the Israelite were meant to become God's priests to the nations of the earth, but because they rebelled against the terms of the covenant God intended to destroy all of the Israelites and start again with Moses' descendant but Moses interceded on their behalf and so the Mosaic covenant was entered into by God whereby the "Priesthood" and services needed for the worship of God was to be limited to only the Tribe of the Levites and the time span that they would hold this privilege would be limited up to the time of Christ's first advent, after which time Christ would become the New High Priest interceding on behalf of those who loved the Lord and kept His statutes.

Then In Jeremiah_31 Jeremiah gave a prophecy that God in the future would then redeem Israel and would make like new again this same covenant with a few small tweaks which had previously been made at Mt Sinai and which they had rebelled against.

God's promise to Abraham was that His descendants would be a blessing to all of the people of the earth. That covenantal promise of God will be fulfilled during the Millennium Age when the Israelites once more resume their duties as a Kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations.

The time is coming when this will happen in our near future.

Shalom

Wow...you're just making this up as you go...and denying that Christ has fulfilled all that He came to fulfill and become that new High Priest, and that He is the Last.

Now we know by what spirit you speak.

 

[charity]

'Then He said unto them,
"O fools, and slow of heart to believe
all that the prophets have spoken:
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things,
and to enter into His glory?"'
(Luke 24:25-26)

Hello @shnarkle,

Am I right in thinking that you believe that Christ returned at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70?

* If that were so, shnarkle, don't you see, that though the sufferings prophesied concerning Christ have been fulfilled, the prophecies concerning His entering into His glory have not yet been fulfilled? The prophecies of His glory were just as clear and minute as those of the sufferings, and must have, in the future, just as literal a fulfilment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[shnarkle]

Hello @shnarkle,

Am I right in thinking that you believe that Christ returned at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70?
Chris

No. Did you read my first post?

 

[Jay Ross]

This would be to assume the keeper has no business tending to fig trees to begin with. Fig trees need at least half of their branches removed for their first pruning, dead wood needs to be removed, etc. There is no good reason to assume pruning wouldn't be involved.

You may be right, but in the parable does not tell us that the fig tree had to be pruned as well. If, as you are suggesting that the fig tree also needs to be pruned and have half of their branches removed, then you are adding to the parable out of the silence of the parable. Not a good thing to do IMHO.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

Wow...you're just making this up as you go...and denying that Christ has fulfilled all that He came to fulfill and become that new High Priest, and that He is the Last.

Now we know by what spirit you speak.

It is obvious ScottA that it is you who is making up things and claiming that I have stated certain things which are not in my post.

Are you ride a vendetta into oblivion? If so it is not against me? But I do wonder who it is against.

Shalom

 

[shnarkle]

You may be right, but in the parable does not tell us that the fig tree had to be pruned as well. If, as you are suggesting that the fig tree also needs to be pruned and have half of their branches removed, then you are adding to the parable out of the silence of the parable. Not a good thing to do IMHO.

Shalom

We could say the same thing with regards to assuming that there is no pruning going on when anyone who tends to fig trees would know pruning is as necessary as water and fertilizer, especially if he's going to be tending to it for a year. Removing something that is implicit in the text is just as bad as adding something that isn't there.

I was just debating something similar with someone who was defending homosexuality in the bible because nowhere do the authors of the New Testament condemn homosexuality They never mention it. This was his argument, but their situation is no different. He pointed out that Christ says marriage is between a man and a woman, but this doesn't mean two men can't marry. He didn't understand that in that culture, two men living as man and wife wasn't considered marriage because marriage is explicitly sanctioned for reproduction. This isn't something that needs to be articulated or added for it to be true.

 

[Jay Ross]

We could say the same thing with regards to assuming that there is no pruning going on when anyone who tends to fig trees would know pruning is as necessary as water and fertilizer, especially if he's going to be tending to it for a year. Removing something that is implicit in the text is just as bad as adding something that isn't there.

As I said in my previous post, you may be right, about the need to prune a fig tree and to remove half of its branches, however, you are still speaking out of the silence of the parable and justifying your position on your head knowledge on the tending requirements for a fig tree. Your argument is not with me, if you consider that this pruning of the fig tree should have been included in the parable. Your argument and disagreement with the content of the parable, Christ told with respect to this parable, and is recorded in the Gospels, is with Christ.

Shalom

PS: - I am not trying to defend a particular position on this parable, only trying to keep to the actual message content. Whether or not the fig tree needs to be pruned during its fourth season/age is really irrelevant to the parable's message of if the Israelites are not producing any fruit at the beginning of the fifth season/age, then even Christ Himself will accept that the Israelite should be cut down and destroyed. A very sobering message to be told during Christ's first advent, considering that He is to be their Messiah.

 

[shnarkle]

Your argument is not with me, if you consider that this pruning of the fig tree should have been included in the parable.

You're not addressing what I'm posting. I'm not suggesting that the parable needs any addenda. I'm pointing out that the parable doesn't need to point out he will be pruning a fig tree because you aren't tending to a fig tree if you aren't pruning it.

 

[Jay Ross]

You're not addressing what I'm posting. I'm not suggesting that the parable needs any addenda. I'm pointing out that the parable doesn't need to point out he will be pruning a fig tree because you aren't tending to a fig tree if you aren't pruning it.

It seems that you are right once again with your head knowledge, but your head knowledge of the parable is a little lacking as to what its message content is. Whether or not the fig tree is pruned is really not that important with respect to the message contained within the parable.

Now you can keep beating your chest about being right about your knowledge of tending fig trees, but it does not make any difference to the message content of the parable.

Shalom

 

[shnarkle]

It seems that you are right once again with your head knowledge, but your head knowledge of the parable is a little lacking as to what its message content is. Whether or not the fig tree is pruned is really not that important with respect to the message contained within the parable.
Shalom

No doubt you don't see anything important about it, although you do seem to think it's important enough to spend all this time trying to ignore it. The fact that you can't seem to do that may be more important than you know.

 

[Jay Ross]

No doubt you don't see anything important about it, although you do seem to think it's important enough to spend all this time trying to ignore it. The fact that you can't seem to do that may be more important than you know.

So be it. So be it.

 

[charity]

No. Did you read my first post?

Yes, I did, @shnarkle,

There was much that I found interesting there.
It would seem that I need to read it again.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Which generation is, 'This Generation'?

'Verily I say unto you,
This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.'
(Matthew 24:34-35)

Hello shnarkle,

Reading your post over again, makes the words, 'but My Words shall not pass away' come across loud and clear. For you make the point that it is the WORD that the Lord spoke that will judge it's hearers in that day (John 12:48). You also give very graphic examples of what the Lord said, and their reference to Old Testament prophecies. I was interested to read the paragraph concerning the account of Josephus, and the signs that were manifested during the wars between the Romans and the Jews:-

shnarkle:- 'Jesus was living during the Pax Romana which was a time of peace so for Jesus to say there will be wars and rumours of wars would have been seen as ludicrous. Josephus ( a Jewish General in Jewish army, soldier, and Pharisee ) recorded the wars between the Romans and Jews. During this time there was a star that resembled a 'sword'. Some saw 'visions of chariots'; many signs and wonders. Everyone thought it was a sign of divine judgement. The temple doors blew open and great sounds, earthqualkes, and a voice which said, 'let us remove hence' Josephus recorded all of this. (Bood 20; ch.8; section 6) 'impostors led the people into the wilderness, Felix brought them back ... many false prophets''

* I agree with you, that that generation was the 'wicked generation' referred to: for they rejected their Messiah and King, refused to receive His words, and were responsible for his crucifixion; so judgement came upon them in AD70.

* Had the word of God spoken by Peter in Acts 3:19-20 been heeded, and Israel repented: then the prophecies would have been fulfilled to the full; however they did not; so await a yet future day for their fulfilment, do they not?

'The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet
.. from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me;
.... unto Him ye shall hearken;
According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God
in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying,

"Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God,
neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not."​

And the LORD said unto me,
.. "They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
.... I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
...... like unto thee,
........ and will put My Words in His mouth;
.......... and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.
And it shall come to pass,
.. that whosoever will not hearken
.... unto My Words
...... which he shall speak in My Name,
........ I will require it of him.'
(Deuteronomy 18:15-19)

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[shnarkle]

I agree with you, that that generation was the 'wicked generation' referred to: for they rejected their Messiah and King, refused to receive His words, and were responsible for his crucifixion; so judgement came upon them in AD70.

In a nutshell, they don't believe the truth when they hear it. This is the essential problem, and that wicked generation doesn't have a monopoly on ignorance of the truth.

Had the word of God spoken by Peter in Acts 3:19-20 been heeded, and Israel repented: then the prophecies would have been fulfilled to the full; however they did not; so await a yet future day for their fulfilment, do they not?
i

Anyone who has yet to receive the revelation of the kingdom along with the gift of repentance must continue to seek, and struggle under the conditions of the Old Covenant.

 

[charity]

In a nutshell, they don't believe the truth when they hear it. This is the essential problem, and that wicked generation doesn't have a monopoly on ignorance of the truth.

Anyone who has yet to receive the revelation of the kingdom along with the gift of repentance must continue to seek, and struggle under the conditions of the Old Covenant.

Hello @shnarkle,

By 'anyone' you must be referring to the People of Israel? For only they are in a covenant relationship with God. Yes?

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[shnarkle]

Hello @shnarkle,

By 'anyone' you must be referring to the People of Israel? For only they are in a covenant relationship with God. Yes?

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The father of the faith, Abraham is the model, and yet when the children of Israel left the bondage of Egypt, the group was "a mixed multitude". Exodus 12:49 points out that there is one law for the native and foreign born alike. Only those who God calls, chooses, saves, sanctifies, and glorifies are in a covenant relationship with God. God selects from Jew and gentile alike to be brought into this covenant. The Jews are brought into a covenant, but their lack of faith separates them. Gentiles are under the same conditions, and their own lack of faith will just as easily separate them as well. God only has one covenant with his chosen people, and all are welcomed into that covenant, but all are under the same conditions as well.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... God only has one covenant with his chosen people, and all are welcomed into that covenant, but all are under the same conditions as well.

You cite "covenant", but use it as "cult". -- I'd rather not be "welcomed" into a cult.

Bobby Jo

 

[historyb]

"34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. " Matthew 24:34

Which generation? The texts indicate not only that it was the generation listening, but explicitly point out that the judgment would fall upon Jerusalem and the elders who were such a corrosive and corrupting influence over them.

It is the generation that Christ was talking to at the time