Who Jesus will Return for and Catch up at the (Rapture)
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Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Rev. 20:4 ... Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.
Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended ...
Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
1 Thess 4:16 ... And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended ...
Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
1 Thess 4:16 ... And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
... in the New Jerusalem.
But the blind choose to be so. -- It must be terrible to not be able to think.
Bobby Jo
You have a knack for uninviting discussion while demanding it.
This OP is about Christ Jesus "catching UP" His Church TO Him.
DIVISION of People Has Occurred and IS Occurring. Not News.
God Divided, Jesus reiterated it.
Try to stay on point. Christ Jesus' people are MADE Whole and KEPT Whole by the Power of God, who IS Christ.
Glory to God,
Taken
Yes==those left behind and then become believers will be killed by anti-christ==Rev. 20:4 ... Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
My Point: If you can't "get" the simple, you shouldn't attempt the complex.
And you can't "get" the simple.
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Yep. You deceive yourself and others in the pursuit of your balderdash.
To All,
For any interested in the truth:
Rev. 13:10 If any one is to be taken captive,
Rev. 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
to captivity he goes;
if any one slays with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
if any one slays with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
Rev. 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
And of course, GOD does not remove the saints, but HE does (and soon WILL) remove the sinners. So if you're not prepared to go through the 42 month (Rev. 13:5) Tribulation (which started when the U.S. recognized Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel), I'd most strongly suggest that you have about a year until we can't "buy or sell".
Alternately, I understand that the world's governments will offer "Medical Treatments" and "FREE SHOWERS".
Bobby Jo
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, what they won't acknowledge or simply ignore is one big glaring fact. The Pretrib Doctrine didn't even exist in most of Christian history--not until John Darby and his compatriots.
Any doctrine that has to spring up 1700 years after the book of Revelation was written is not worth the paper it was written on. We are absolutely to reject novel and modern doctrines designed to flatter the mind that we are elites, to be tickled with the idea that we are superior and to be excluded from being soiled by tribulation.
But what did Jesus say? If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. I have not called you to come out of the world, but to be delivered *in* it! (paraphrased)
John 17.15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
John 16.18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Are you crazy? Exactly how can people know the participants of the end-times until we're in THE END TIMES? So now that we ARE in the END TIMES, we can interpret the participants, the methods, and even the timing.
But if you want to remain IGNORANT, then please continue to be so.
Bobby Jo
Jesus will rapture (catch up ) those looking for Him others will be left behind====your choice!
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
In Paul's first epistle to the Thessalonians he exhorts his readers not to grieve for the dead the way that the nations do. He tells them,
"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep."
The Greek word translated "precede" in this context, refers to those who run races in the games. This refers to a man that runs so fast that he overtakes everyone else in the lead and runs so far out ahead that no one can catch up, leaving all the other competitors behind. Paul is telling the Thessalonians that those who are alive at the coming of the Lord will not leave the dead behind. No one will be left behind. We all go together.
Right? Or no?
Dream on! If you are not looking for Jesus to return don't expect Jesus to catch you up (rapture) Who Jesus will Return for and Catch up at the (Rapture) Hebrews 9:28=Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To ""those who eagerly wait(look) for Him"" He will appear a second time.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Do you have no self-control? Every response that comes out of your mouth seems to begin with an insult? Have you no manners?
Really, I don't have a problem with a little "color commentary," or emotional emphasis. But you're a bit too mean-spirited for me. If you don't check it a little, I may just start ignoring you. And that's sad, because I think you're otherwise a smart person and have something to give. The trouble is, you need to recognize that others have something to give also, no matter what level of maturity or knowledge they are.
I could've easily anticipated your answer, friend. Yes, some feel that one has to arrive at the endtimes to more fully understand how a prophecy is to literally be fulfilled. Daniel was told to wait, because it was only his duty to report the facts. The future generations, to whom the prophecies would apply, would have to deal with those facts.
Peter says the same thing, that the prophets didn't always know what they were foretelling. But the problem is, prophecy was not just for fortune-telling--it was not just prognostication about the future. It was also for the present. Even if Daniel's generation didn't completely understand the end of these prophecies, they were certainly to understand the principles involved, so that they could immediately benefit.
This is true of the book of Revelation. I believes it speaks about a future Antichrist, and most generations of Christians never had to face him. But all generations have been able to benefit from the doctrine of Antichrist because all generations have to face their own antichrists.
The important thing, though, is that we get the Scripture right. And that has nothing to do with understanding the fulfillment of a prophecy. It only has to do with what the prophecy actually means to the one who is saying it. Otherwise, if the speaker doesn't even know what he's saying, no message can really be communicated!
If the apostles didn't know whether they were preaching postrib, pretrib, or midtrib, then we can of course draw no conclusion about the timing of the "Tribulation" from the Scriptures. But we don't have to wait until Antichrist arrives to know if we'll be in the time of "Tribulation." We can read from Paul who said that Christ will *not* return for his Church until after the revelation of the Man of Sin, and after he is actually destroyed *at* the Coming of Christ. In other words, Paul taught explicit Postrib. We don't have to wait to be *in* the "Tribulation" to know the Church will be there. And the book of Revelation confirms this.
And in regard to how Christians should interpret Paul in this matter we only have to look at how Paul's generation and future generations of scholarly Christians looked at Paul's writings. Nobody interpreted his teaching as Pretrib. Pretrib was an odd and controversial insertion into Paul's writings long, long after Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2. And many Pretribbers concluded that due to the lack of specificity of the Pretrib doctrine that Paul was actually trying to convey a "mystery," ie non-explicit truth that requires special revelation, or "prophetic revelation." That, my friend, is dangerous.
Stay here and try to have fun as anti-christ hunts you down===your choice! As for me I will have been caught up (raptured) and will return to earth with Jesus at the end of the great tribulation to rule with Him.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Just because YOU don't understand when the "rapture" occurs, doesn't mean that John didn't know. In FACT, John PRECISELY knew when the "rapture" would occur BECAUSE HE WROTE THE BOOK OF REVELATION which PROVIDES THE TIMING.
But if you can't figure it out Scripture, and refuse to heed council, then PLEASE REMAIN IGNORANT.
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
To All,
The choice is fairly simple. Don't prepare for the Tribulation when we can't buy or sell, and are murdered in the streets -- because you trust in a FALSE DOCTRINE; or make provisions so that you might survive.
Bobby Jo
The choice is fairly simple. Don't prepare for the Tribulation when we can't buy or sell, and are murdered in the streets -- because you trust in a FALSE DOCTRINE; or make provisions so that you might survive.
Bobby Jo
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The body of Christ is only supposed to look for Christ, the author and finisher of Faith. Looking for and preparing for anything else, is demanding that God send His wrath on you. Go for it, and prove how you, yourself, and your own understanding, can prepare you for all that is to come.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I am well studied in Revelation, because The Father through His Son is Who gives the key to understanding it; only Jesus can open up the Seals. I understand it well enough to even say that if one is not studied in the Old Testament prophets, there is much of Revelation they will not even come close to understanding.
Christ's Olivet Discourse parallels the 6 Seals of Revelation 6. So I find it surprising with those who 'claim' to understand Revelation that don't even know about that parallel. Do you?
Davy
Well-Known Member
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