Why People Don't Believe: Sex & Time

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Wrangler

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Just finished reading Revelations. I'll add the verses later but it occurred to me why people don't believe and it involves sex and time.

Regarding sex; condemnations against homosexuality has to be seen as in the context of the Bride and Wife of the Lamb, who is made up of many men.

Regarding time; Jesus says he is coming soon and very soon. See Rev 22:7, 12, 22. At another place, he says his return is before this generation will pass. It is under obvious that the Apostles thought the End Times, the 2nd Coming of Christ would be in their lifetimes.

To resist the concerns of these points, is IMO, like the wind against a kite - the cause of the disbelief to rise, to be reinforced and solidified. While Christ followers seem to find it easier to address the concerns over sex, the tendency is to defend the concerns over time, which either goes against 2 Corinthians 1:13 or is condescending of their "understanding", such as a day is like a thousand years to the LORD. (This side steps the point of the timing for us humans.)

Rather than defend HOW Scripture is right and our understanding it wrong, I think it would be more effective at persuasion to concede that these are concerning matters (you understand their concerns) and that like them, you too don't fully understand all of Scripture (without going into specifics), then turn attention to why you do believe and why they should believe also.

IMO, this is an opportunity to build a relationship with other image bearer's of God rather than deepen the divide over theological minutia - compared to helping to bring another soul to Christ. Thoughts?
 
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marks

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Regarding sex; condemnations against homosexuality has to be seen as in the context of the Bride and Wife of the Lamb, who is made up of many men.
Paul wrote "for this cause will a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh".

For this cause . . .

Ephesians 5:28-30 LITV
28) So, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies, (he loving his wife loves himself),
29) for then no one hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as also the Lord the assembly.
30) For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.

The very reason God created male and female and ordained marriage was to give an human display in the man and wife relationship God's relationship with us. Homosexuality is a denial of God's intent for man, that man be with God, which is why God calls it an abomination, another word for an idol. It symbolically trades relationship with God for man, and displays nothing by man's depravity.

Much love!
 

marks

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IMO, this is an opportunity to build a relationship with other image bearer's of God rather than deepen the divide over theological minutia - compared to helping to bring another soul to Christ. Thoughts?
Everything is an opportunity for that.

:)

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

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bbyrd009

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The very reason God created male and female and ordained marriage was to give an human display in the man and wife relationship God's relationship with us. Homosexuality is a denial of God's intent for man, that man be with God, which is why God calls it an abom
i dont know, but i suggest that wisdom is hidden from the wise there, meaning Yah could prolly not care less who one is sleeping with, and might be much more concerned with Religious Fascists all marching in lock-step, no coat of many colors allowed!
 
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marks

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i dont know, but i suggest that wisdom is hidden from the wise there, meaning Yah could prolly not care less who one is sleeping with, and might be much more concerned with Religious Fascists all marching in lock-step, no coat of many colors allowed!
Personally I think God's intent for us is to lead us into knowing Him. Religious fascists (I don't know what that is but I'm assuming you mean something 'bad') or sleeping around will both work against that, I think is the idea. If we do things God's way, we'll get His result, I think.

Much love!
 
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bbyrd009

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Yet He made a point of telling us what He intended for us, so there's that.

Much love!
well i dont know, but i have come to suspect that an analogy is being made in such a way so as to hide wisdom while providing an avenue for judgement of others, that the reader might be revealed
 

marks

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well i dont know, but i have come to suspect that an analogy is being made in such a way so as to hide wisdom while providing an avenue for judgement of others, that the reader might be revealed
But to me that empties the passage of what is written.

Ephesians 5 presents an excellent understanding of why God does in fact care who shares their bed with whom. Why wouldn't we want to embrace that?

I'm not talking about making this an excuse to get all judgmental on someone, that's not the point.

Much love!
 

Wrangler

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Ephesians 5 presents an excellent understanding of why God does in fact care who shares their bed with whom. Why wouldn't we want to embrace that?

I'm not talking about making this an excuse to get all judgmental on someone, that's not the point


The point of this thread is why does the Bible call men to be the Bride and Wife of Christ WHILE also condemning homosexuality. Then, this apparent contradiction becomes an understandable wedge issue for why people don’t believe, don’t come to Christ.
 

marks

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The point of this thread is why does the Bible call men to be the Bride and Wife of Christ WHILE also condemning homosexuality. Then, this apparent contradiction becomes an understandable wedge issue for why people don’t believe, don’t come to Christ.
OK, I see. Sorry! I guess I don't see the contradiction, or the resultant problem. But that's just me!

Much love!
 

Wrangler

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OK, I see. Sorry! I guess I don't see the contradiction, or the resultant problem. But that's just me!

Much love!
Really? Pick One:
A. Men are included as Wife & Bride of Christ & Homosexuality is allowed.
B. Homosexuality is prohibited as well as men making up the Wife & Bride of Christ.

As Scripture currently reads, homosexuality is condemned, unless it is the Wife and Bride of Christ.
 

bbyrd009

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yet the ecclesia is never directly called the “bride of Christ” anywhere in the NT, fwiw
Ephesians 5 presents an excellent understanding of why God does in fact care who shares their bed with whom. Why wouldn't we want to embrace that?
i would say bam embrace that on a personal level too, the literal understanding, but see that there are no actual whores in prophets gone a’whoring, and we are after all described as two men in a bed, although i guess most believers do not have that understanding yet
 
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marks

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Really? Pick One:
A. Men are included as Wife & Bride of Christ & Homosexuality is allowed.
B. Homosexuality is prohibited as well as men making up the Wife & Bride of Christ.

As Scripture currently reads, homosexuality is condemned, unless it is the Wife and Bride of Christ.

Right, I get your thread now. No, that's nothing the same, even assuming the church is "the bride of Christ", which I don't find so certain at all.

I find this suggestion artificial, false, and quite repugnant.

Much love!
 
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bbyrd009

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The point of this thread is why does the Bible call men to be the Bride and Wife of Christ WHILE also condemning homosexuality. Then, this apparent contradiction becomes an understandable wedge issue for why people don’t believe, don’t come to Christ.
“homosexual” makes a great analogy for a term they did not have then, what we now call “fascist” maybe, or someone who believes that everyone should believe exactly the same thing, or that all of the other sects of their “faith” (as a noun) are lost or condemned…these are likely the real “homosexuals” of the Bible imo

also, the Bible never calls the ecclesia “the bride of Christ” directly, at least that i can find
 

Wrangler

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Right, I get your thead now. No, that's nothing the same, even assuming the church is "the bride of Christ", which I don't find so certain at all.

I find this suggestion artificial, false, and quite repugnant.

Much love!
Interesting. Do you deny that both men and women make up the wife and bride of Christ?

I think you are still missing what this thread is about if you replace men with the church. Those that don't believe will not find this obtuse response an effective persuasion tool. How can Christians say with a straight face that both men and women who are saved make up the bride and wife of Christ AND homosexuality is condemned?