Why the fall had to occur

[bbyrd009]

Why say wadr (with all due respect), when you have not shown any, but just the opposite?

that i have no respect--yet--for your concepts does not mean that i am not respecting you personally, of course; obviously i am not belittling you, or calling you any names, right. But yes admittedly i am not the best guy for this ok, and that is my shortcoming, not yours. So now let's avoid the points some more so that i can assure you that i mean no offense, shall we.

Mostly because i am getting jerked off here imo, by you, even if it is done with more aplomb. If you were to, say, answer some of the posts that you are selectively avoiding right now maybe, maybe that would resolve, but tbh there is no nice way to tell someone with delusions of grandeur (for example) that they need a witness, at least not that i know of; bc they inevitably get offended, i guess

you have stated more than once that all truth flows from you, right, and i should have had common sense then, but i just wanted to give you a chance to make your case, or hang yourself, and i guess the point has once again been made.

anytime you wanna switch places btw, i'm game, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

but also, let's not bs each other, your dogma is searchable just by highlight/search of your quotes--even though you are reluctant in the extreme to identify it--and we both know that it is not Christian at all, right.

you just happen to have 10-20 Scriptures that seem to align with your pov at first glance, leading you to assume that you have found some truth, but i guess not realizing that we have a Scriptural method for determining truth, that you refuse to engage in (or even acknowledge, apparently).

and since i doubt that you are going to suddenly start doing so now, i'll leave you the last word here

 

[ScottA]

yes, so further misinterpretation @ the "location" of heaven which is right beside all of us, wadr. Heaven is now posited as some other place, obtainable by humans only after they die, right

No, eternity begins "today" (that day of salvation). But, yes, eternity/heaven is not geographic.

 

[ScottA]

ok, believe what you like, i would only suggest that you make your pov accountable to some other witness, who can critique or offer rebuttals to any errant imaginings that will arise (have arisen); being as how Scripture is being rejected here, in the posts you have chosen not to reply to, wadr. See why "truth is established in the mouth of two or three witnesses," iow, or embrace that or whatever

Right...and when has that been the standard of a word from God? "By whose authority do you do this?" Yeah, right! The problem is, you have your own standard, and I am not offering you anything more than God has ever offered.

 

[ScottA]

no you didn't, you merely shot me the same tired rebuttal that any believer shoots when they are denying earth as our domain, wadr, and i have already admitted that the earth will, one day, be consumed in fire (the sun), but this is not the same thing as the world, passing away; except to you, and believers, most believers anyway i guess.

so now, you pray "on earth, as it is in heaven," but you do not believe this, or at least i don't see how you could believe this, and simultaneously believe that the "earth" is what Christ referred to as "passing away." So, like conundrum #12 or whatever

'We speak what we know" (so said Christ) and quote where God has said it too. But you do not believe it either way, but have your own ideas, which are wrong and go against the scriptures. "New" means new.

And I already explained "on earth as it is in heaven", is Christs reign upon the earth before the end of it. The conundrum is yours. I have told you the truth.

 

[ScottA]

as the earth is now compared to 100 years ago too, i guess. Recycling seems to be the whole point of "nothing new under the sun," at least imo. Yet we are vastly, observably different from them, 100 years ago, also

"Nothing new under the sun" refers to equal opportunity for all who are born: the world offers nothing new.

 

[ScottA]

the meek will inherit the earth

Thank you for bringing this up. If you understood this, it would prove to you what I have been telling you.

The meek do not inherit the earth in the end...but have inherited it. Next, they inherit heaven or hell.

 

[ScottA]

what?

Hear from God. But if men did not know Christ when He came the first time, how will you know it is Him, if it is not one of these, but Christ who lives in them?

 

[ScottA]

yes, and what you cannot seem to hear is that i think you are mistaken, and worse than that, have no one who could possibly make this clear to you, not even God. Doesn't have to be me, see, i am aware of my God complex, and so i would dq me right away, but you should at least have some witness, right. Which btw i found your witness, long time ago already, only you would not appreciate being conflated with them for some reason, i guess? Def not a Christian perspective after all, is it?

I understand. You don't believe me. I get that.

But you are not being realistic about the need for a witness. I have said that the scriptures and God are my witness, but YOU do not accept either, and want something less, like men's opinions. But, what word from God ever came with a board of approval? I tell you, not even the Catholics have that, though they would like to think so. But, no, the possibilities are: 1) we agree in spirit, 2) we will agree, but not yet, or 3) we disagree, because we have no part with one another.

 

[ScottA]

that i have no respect--yet--for your concepts does not mean that i am not respecting you personally, of course; obviously i am not belittling you, or calling you any names, right. But yes admittedly i am not the best guy for this ok, and that is my shortcoming, not yours. So now let's avoid the points some more so that i can assure you that i mean no offense, shall we.

Mostly because i am getting jerked off here imo, by you, even if it is done with more aplomb. If you were to, say, answer some of the posts that you are selectively avoiding right now maybe, maybe that would resolve, but tbh there is no nice way to tell someone with delusions of grandeur (for example) that they need a witness, at least not that i know of; bc they inevitably get offended, i guess

you have stated more than once that all truth flows from you, right, and i should have had common sense then, but i just wanted to give you a chance to make your case, or hang yourself, and i guess the point has once again been made.

anytime you wanna switch places btw, i'm game, ok

You are at the very least, a good sport. Thank you for that!

Now, in nearly 2000 posts, what have I not answered? :)

 

[ScottA]

but also, let's not bs each other, your dogma is searchable just by highlight/search of your quotes--even though you are reluctant in the extreme to identify it--and we both know that it is not Christian at all, right.

you just happen to have 10-20 Scriptures that seem to align with your pov at first glance, leading you to assume that you have found some truth, but i guess not realizing that we have a Scriptural method for determining truth, that you refuse to engage in (or even acknowledge, apparently).

and since i doubt that you are going to suddenly start doing so now, i'll leave you the last word here

Tell me about this "Scriptural method for determining truth" and where you got it.

But, I don't "just happen to have 10-20 scriptures that seem to align with" my pov. I did not begin with scripture and then pick and choose. I began with God, and then chose all of scripture, as He confirmed it in full. And the scriptures in turn, confirmed Him to be true.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well this has been fun watching you two go back and forth.

 

[pia]

He chooses everyone

But it seems , not everyone chooses Him, therefore leaving themselves out.....Not because our Father wants it to be so....Agreed ?

 

[Helen]

@ScottA ...good post.

 

[Helen]

so iow you don't need prayer, you need an exorcism, wadr.

Ouch!!

 

[Dcopymope]

But it seems , not everyone chooses Him, therefore leaving themselves out.....Not because our Father wants it to be so....Agreed ?

I would like to think that God knowing the future, knew what he was getting himself into when he made us. Whoever he chooses, are those names found in the book of life, some according to the finished work of Jesus, while others are chosen according to their own works as per the throne judgement. I wouldn't want to be of the latter, since it is the latter of which many will be tossed in the fire. If God really wanted this to be so, he wouldn't bother having a court day for every single soul not of his bride to begin with. He would just toss them all in the fire and be done with it like he did the beast, the false prophet, and the devil, would he not? Do people realize that none of the aforementioned three are ever prophesied to have a court day? They sealed their fate the moment they rebelled, because they are without excuse. Speaking more on the topic of this thread, I think the verse below bolsters my argument even more, a verse that unbelievers have a field day with.

(Genesis 6:5-6) "¶ And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. {6} And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

See, this verse is always used against believer's because it implies that God made a mistake when he created us, and they will stick to that argument regardless of any counter argument I have seen given by believers that are perfectly legitimate. However, I don't think they have ever seen my counter argument, and ever since I've been spreading this message, I have yet to see this verse even uttered against it. :) I do wonder why you know. Yes, it grieved him that he made us because he knew the wickedness within us was going to rear its ugly head regardless, the disease of sin. Notice that he doesn't have any regret for putting the tree in the garden that introduced sin into the world. His regret, his pity was in making us, NOT the tree that he told Adam & Eve not to eat from. This is definitely a clue if I've ever seen one, I should have addressed it in my video.

 

[mjrhealth]

I don't think I would have to explain love to an angel pal, since they know what love is all by themselves. Are you claiming angels don't have emotions when they worship God? Where are you getting your ideas from concerning angels? Have you met one? Are you quoting these verses as if it is proof against my argument? If so, how exactly? Yes, your sins are forgiven, now what does that have to do with the inevitability of the fall? If he determined his son will be the lamb slain for our sins before the six day creation began, then what makes you think that there was actually a choice being given when he put the tree in the garden?

You keep asking me where I got my argument from as if I just made it up out thin air when the answer is right in front of you. God putting the two trees in the garden was NOT him giving man a real "choice", what God was actually doing was speeding up the inevitable, what he knew was already destined to occur beforehand. Do you have a problem with God NOT postponing the birth of the savior? The isn't about our "choices", the Bible from beginning to end is all about Jesus Christ eliminating sin now and forever, a simple observation that many seem to miss apparently.

Really you should try, an angel could never understand love, why do you blame God for everything, you are the way you are by your choices, no one elses, what you do here is your choosing. So as HE said choose life, really isnt hard, Responsibilty, no one will be there with you in teh end, you will be on your own, naked just like teh rest of us.

 

[Dcopymope]

Really you should try, an angel could never understand love, why do you blame God for everything, you are the way you are by your choices, no one elses, what you do here is your choosing. So as HE said choose life, really isnt hard,

And you still didn't answer my question. Where do you get the idea that angels don't have emotions, or are incapable of expressing love? Is that what you are saying? And what does our "choices" have to do with the inevitability of the fall?....You know what, don't even bother trying, because its clear to me by now that you can't answer these questions.

Responsibilty, no one will be there with you in teh end, you will be on your own, naked just like teh rest of us.

Where are you getting the idea that we are going to be 'naked' at all in the first place?

 

[mjrhealth]

And you still didn't answer my question. Where do you get the idea that angels don't have emotions, or are incapable of expressing love? Is that what you are saying? And what does our "choices" have to do with the inevitability of the fall?....You know what, don't even bother trying, because its clear to me by now that you can't answer these questions.
Where are you getting the idea that we are going to be 'naked' at all in the first place?

Angeles where created for a purpose, they know nothing of teh flesh, they are spiritual beings, created to serve God, they too had choice, to serve Him or not, hence satan and his fallen angles, mind you when i was young i didnt think they did. How can one know what love is if one has never felt lonliness, angels are loved by God continuously, they have never experienced the emotions we have, like lonliness, there fore can never understand love. Why are you so angry with God, Has HE not given you choice too. Really isnt hard, choose life. As for nakedness, do you not understand, when you stand before God, you will have nothing to hide you, everything will be there right before Gods eyes, nothing hidden, naked as teh day you where born. All the religion and facades we build around ourselves to hide our "nakedness" like Adam and Eve, all taken away, God sees all.

Maybe you dont like the answer, that is your problem, your "choice" your responsibilty, no one to hold your hand, unless you choose Him who is life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yes, so further misinterpretation @ the "location" of heaven which is right beside all of us, wadr. Heaven is now posited as some other place, obtainable by humans only after they die, right

I can't find it now but somewhere you said the earth is not passing away. I'd really like to understand your perspective on the not passing away. Until He reveals otherwise, this is my belief from the word;

Heaven is Spirit.

The earth: Being subjected to vanity and sold into the bondage of sin: the Earth is flesh. Right now: the glory of man. The shadow of death. As man fades or passes away, so does the earth. God paid the price: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The earth clothed with God's glory and righteousness as He fills all.

Psalm 144:4
[4] Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away.

As God will one day clothe man with His glory (a glorified body), the earth will also be purified and cleansed with fervent heat(God is consuming fire) and clothed with His glory. All being Spirit.

Revelation 21:1
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter 3:10-12
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


No more shadows

James 1:17
[17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

All in Christ.

Ephesians 1:10
[10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: