The phrase 'Spiritually Dead' is not in the Bible. Where do you get this from?

[JunChosen]

There is also no evidence that they did not repent afterwards.

God covered them with skins to hide their nakedness. And god continued to use them to build mankind. We cannot say if God forgave them or not! The Bible doesn't and for us to draw a declared concusion is hubris and haughtiness

The word "naked" in Scripture means "shame" as in sin.

Although the Bible is silent about Adam and Eve not displaying any kind of repentance, we have to assume that they were saved in accordance with the language set forth in Isaiah 61:10:

"I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness..."

I thought of the above as the Holy Spirit led me while reading your post #80. Any comments is appreciated.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jlentz]

Call it what you will, fact remains if you are lost you are spiritually dead.

 

[robert derrick]

Speaking of the Womb.

That is where your previously dead Soul was 'quickened' and made alive again...

Psalms 71:20
"Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth."

Quicken again?

How can One be Born Again twice?

Bring me up again?

Depths of the Earth?

BTW, the 'Heart of the Earth' is the Most Holy Place of the Tabernacle. Jesus went to the Heart of the Earth to sprinkle the Blood...

Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Your Zygote was the Temple formed in the Belly of Hell...

Jonah 2:2
"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice."

I believe we are Tripartite Beings...

• Body
• Soul
• Spirit

We know what Body is. It is our flesh.

Spirit is the Electromagnetism that 'quickens' and powers Life.

Our Soul however, is our GENOME. Our Soul contains the Genetic Information (A,C,G,T) that is necessary to create the Body. It survives Death.

Soul is Feminine BTW...

Psalms 34:2
"My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad."

That is what gets married to Jesus. Our Genome merges with his.

Anyhow, a Living Soul can mean a Soul that is made alive by the Spirit, yet has no 'Tabernacle' Body yet.

We will exist in that state once our Bodies pass away. We will be Soul and Spirit only until we receive our Glorified Body.

Long story short, Adam and his Wife were Soul and Spirit (Living Soul). They were given choices as to which parents they would like to incarnate from.

They chose Mystery Babylon (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) as Mom, and Satan (The Serpent) as Father.

The Forbidden Fruit was the Zygote they were conceived of.

Mystery Babylon and Satan are who we have as Earthly Parents!

Acts 13:10
"And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?"

^^^
That is LITERAL people.

I am still not sure what you are getting at. I do like your efforts to ber drastically literal about Scripture, and that is not to be faulted. However:
"Adam and his Wife were Soul and Spirit (Living Soul)"

No they were flesh and blood. First made of the dust of the ground, and then became living souls with the breath of Life from God.

In like manner, we all are first born of flesh and blood at the hands of God (Psalms 139), and then by faith in Jesus we become living souls by the Spirit of Life of God.

And so, the answer to your original question: Scripture never speaks plainly of 'spiritual death'; however it does speak plainly of being dead to God, having not His Spirit, and so dead souls in mortal bodies by sin (Ezek 18).

 

[robert derrick]

I personally believe that the problem lies in understanding our state prior to being born of God. God breathed into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul. This scripture doesn’t say that everyone that’s born into this world receives the breath of life.
Some of the scriptures posted by others her about being formed of God in their mother’s womb, don’t apply to us either. No one posting here came out of their mothers womb receiving the breath of God. Jesus Christ was the first man to receive the breath of God since the fall of Adam, scripture is very clear on this.
Psalm 33:3-6 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. [4] For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth. [5] He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord. [6] By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.


It’s upon receiving the breath of His mouth we receive life.. only in Him is there life.

The Holy Spirit is the breath of life.

In this regard, we need to look at a living soul vs a dead soul. Every soul is still made by God (Isaiah 57), and every soul that sins shall die (Ezek 18). God does not make dead souls, but living. Every soul born of a woman is living made by God as with Adam, but now having the nature of sin by Adam's transgression, every soul is predestined to sin unto death.

There were two living souls made by God, who were not so predestined to sin: Adam and Jesus, which is how He is the Second Adam.

The breath of Life is still from the Creator to make living souls in the world, but the Spirit of Life born within us makes us a new creature in Christ Jesus.

There is a difference. Adam was made of flesh and became a living soul, but did not become born of the Spirit of God due to transgression.

Jesus was made of flesh and became a living soul born of the spirit of God in the womb.

We are made of flesh and become living souls, that may be born of the Spirit of God outside the womb by the faith of Jesus.

My point being: we are all made living souls by God, with souls destined to die by the sin nature therein, but we are not all born of the Spirit of God by the faith of Jesus to a new and living soul with the divine nature (2 Peter 1).

We eat of the tree of life in the paradise of God even as Adam (Rev 2), but with the knowledge of the Lord Jesus and His faith to avoid Adam's transgression.

We are all made living souls by the breath of God, until we are certain to sin and die, then we may become new and living souls by the Spirit of Life to walk in the new and living way of Jesus (Heb 10).

One life on earth, 2 souls: First living and then dead, and now alive and quickened again. Rebirth of a soul in one lifetime on earth, not rebirth of man in another lifetime.

Base12 has the right idea, just the wrong framework. Rebirth of a soul in one lifetime on earth, not rebirth of a soul in two different lifetimes.

 

[robert derrick]

I believe we are Tripartite Beings...

• Body
• Soul
• Spirit

We know what Body is. It is our flesh.

Spirit is the Electromagnetism that 'quickens' and powers Life.

Our Soul however, is our GENOME. Our Soul contains the Genetic Information (A,C,G,T) that is necessary to create the Body. It survives Death.

Soul is Feminine BTW...

Psalms 34:2
"My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad."

That is what gets married to Jesus. Our Genome merges with his.

Anyhow, a Living Soul can mean a Soul that is made alive by the Spirit, yet has no 'Tabernacle' Body yet.

We will exist in that state once our Bodies pass away. We will be Soul and Spirit only until we receive our Glorified Body.

Long story short, Adam and his Wife were Soul and Spirit (Living Soul). They were given choices as to which parents they would like to incarnate from.

They chose Mystery Babylon (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) as Mom, and Satan (The Serpent) as Father.

The Forbidden Fruit was the Zygote they were conceived of.

Mystery Babylon and Satan are who we have as Earthly Parents!

Acts 13:10
"And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?"

^^^
That is LITERAL people.

"They chose Mystery Babylon (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) as Mom, and Satan (The Serpent) as Father. The Forbidden Fruit was the Zygote they were conceived of. Mystery Babylon and Satan are who we have as Earthly Parents!"

Symbolism without Scriptural proof by a fertile mind that is not afraid of thinking outside the orthodox box.

Satan is our earthly parent when our soul sins and dies. Even as Adam and 'the Woman' in the garden.

But not Mystery Babylon the Great.

Let's look at Scriptural symbolism: The ministry is likened to a woman and a city.

The ministry of God is the heavenly city New Jerusalem spoken of as a woman in Rev 12. She is the mother of us all who believe (Gal 4).

The ministry of the devil, all false ministry and prophecy, is that great city Babylon the Great, spoken of as a woman and mother of all harlots. (Rev 17)

Harlots and adulterers were applied by God to false prophets and teachers in the whoredoms of false ministry as Jezebel in the Old (2 Kings 9), as well as in the New (Rev 2).

I say, faithful and true ministers are they which remain the virgins of Rev 14, and do not defile themselves in the ministry of God by corrupting and mishandling the His Word (2 Cor 2) (I John 1).

This is how you show true symbolism constructed rightly from Scriptures. Your stuff, Base 12, is not so plainly supported by Scripture as it is bluntly declared by yourself.

And the main error of your reincarnation theory is what collapses your whole argument: You 'suggest' that our 'time past' is our 'past life' as in another lifetime, although Scripture plainly teaches that our time past before faith in Jesus is our that of sins and riotous living in the time past of our lives. And the only time that Scripture speaks of 'time past' as other lifetimes is clearly written pertaining to past generations (2 Sam 5) (Heb 1).

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was a national and not an individual sin. And it could only happen when Jesus walked on the earth. Judgment for that sin was the diaspora that began in 70 AD- 135 AD.

There is also no evidence that they did not repent afterwards.

God covered them with skins to hide their nakedness. And god continued to use them to build mankind. We cannot say if God forgave them or not! The Bible doesn't and for us to draw a declared concusion is hubris and haughtiness.

I disagree that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is only a national sin and isn't a individual sin, and that it could only happen when Jesus walked the earth. I have seen nothing in the scriptures that proves that.The scriptures Matthew 12:31; Mark 3:28,29; Luke 12:10 Don't talk as though that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is only a national sin and doesn't apply to an individual sin. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit does apply to an individual. In fact the scriptures show that all sins of an individual originate from the heart, including blasphemies. That is just as true today as it was back then. Matthew 15: 19; Mark 7:21,22; Hebrew 6:4-6; 10:26-31

When it comes to Adam and Eve I don't believe God forgave Adam deliberate sin. Adam knowingly and willfully sinned, and he showed no repentance, neither did Eve. Just because God gave them skin covering isn't evidence that God forgave them. Also because God allowed them to have children isn't evidence God forgave them for what they did.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The word "naked" in Scripture means "shame" as in sin.

Although the Bible is silent about Adam and Eve not displaying any kind of repentance, we have to assume that they were saved in accordance with the language set forth in Isaiah 61:10:

"I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness..."

I thought of the above as the Holy Spirit led me while reading your post #80. Any comments is appreciated.

To God Be The Glory

Well naked means with9out clothes, for Adam and Eve were naked. Being naked was not a problem until after they fell so they made fig leaves and hid from God. They became ashamed of their nakedness, but they were naked.

I don't know if I would apply Isaiah's comment that far. I bel;ieve Adam and Eve are saved, but I don't see the connect from Is. 61 back to God forgiving them.

 

[MatthewG]

Do not know

if this would help any one of you

if you desire to know a little bit of my understanding

of the body/soul - spirit.

Interesting 12 minute video.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I disagree that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is only a national sin and isn't a individual sin, and that it could only happen when Jesus walked the earth. I have seen nothing in the scriptures that proves that.The scriptures Matthew 12:31; Mark 3:28,29; Luke 12:10 Don't talk as though that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is only a national sin and doesn't apply to an individual sin. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit does apply to an individual. In fact the scriptures show that all sins of an individual originate from the heart, including blasphemies. That is just as true today as it was back then. Matthew 15: 19; Mark 7:21,22; Hebrew 6:4-6; 10:26-31

When it comes to Adam and Eve I don't believe God forgave Adam deliberate sin. Adam knowingly and willfully sinned, and he showed no repentance, neither did Eve. Just because God gave them skin covering isn't evidence that God forgave them. Also because God allowed them to have children isn't evidence God forgave them for what they did.

I am not surprised you disagree. But the Scriptures do show that.

Matt 12 and Mark 3 are the same event. Mark 3 adds the warning they are in danger of damnation. Matt 12 Jesus judges the nation for that sin and carried out the national judgment in the 70 AD destruction as Described in Luke 21. The Luke passage , the verb is the aorist active participle which means a continuing railing or reviling the Spirit.

The situation is different and the answer is different.

Teh Matthew and Mark passages , the people are forcing the Pharisees to answer if Jesus is Messiah or not, for He had performed all three of what the Pharisees taught only Messiah could perform (this being the third one). the people directly asked the Pharisees if Jesus was the Messiah (they even asked it rhetorically expecting a positive answer), that is what is meant by the question "23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?" That is one of many Messianic titles. So the pharisees were forced to as the leaders of Israel to accept or reject their Messiah.


As for Adam and Eve, as long as you are willing to accept your "belief" could be dead wrong, that is fine. I believe they are saved, but I can't say for certain, because we don't know about teh hundreds opf years they lived after the fall whether or not they ever repented or not! I think they would have just because of John 3;16.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I am not surprised you disagree. But the Scriptures do show that.

Matt 12 and Mark 3 are the same event. Mark 3 adds the warning they are in danger of damnation. Matt 12 Jesus judges the nation for that sin and carried out the national judgment in the 70 AD destruction as Described in Luke 21. The Luke passage , the verb is the aorist active participle which means a continuing railing or reviling the Spirit.

The situation is different and the answer is different.

Teh Matthew and Mark passages , the people are forcing the Pharisees to answer if Jesus is Messiah or not, for He had performed all three of what the Pharisees taught only Messiah could perform (this being the third one). the people directly asked the Pharisees if Jesus was the Messiah (they even asked it rhetorically expecting a positive answer), that is what is meant by the question "23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?" That is one of many Messianic titles. So the pharisees were forced to as the leaders of Israel to accept or reject their Messiah.


As for Adam and Eve, as long as you are willing to accept your "belief" could be dead wrong, that is fine. I believe they are saved, but I can't say for certain, because we don't know about teh hundreds opf years they lived after the fall whether or not they ever repented or not! I think they would have just because of John 3;16.

I disagree with your belief that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is only a national sin and doesn't apply to an individual and only when Jesus Christ was on Earth. There's only one sin you can't be forgiven for which is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and all those scriptures I gave you show that you can overstep and be guilty of the unforgivable sin today if one isn't careful.

The Mosaic Law clearly left primary religious authority and instruction in the hands of the priests, the descendants of Aaron, and while
the Pharisees were a prominent religious sect of Judaism in the first century C.E. They were not of priestly descent, but they were strict observers of the Law in its smallest detail, and they elevated oral traditions to the same level. (Mt 23:23)
Some were also members of the Sanhedrin. They often opposed Jesus regarding Sabbath observance, traditions, and association with sinners and tax collectors. Some became Christians, including Saul of Tarsus.—Mt 9:11; 12:14; Mr 7:5; Lu 6:2; Ac 26:5.
There is no mention of this influential group anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures.(Old Testament)
So the point is Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees in Matthew 12, not the nation. 8
The sect of the Pharisees showed how corrupt the people of Israel had become. I understand that most of the Jews listened to the Pharisees and shouldn't have, but that still doesn't mean God recognized the Pharisees as the religious authority, as I said the religious authority God recognized was the one he instituted.

 

[michaelvpardo]

From Wikipedia:

"The phrase spiritual death is not found in Protestant scriptures, and definitions of the concept thus vary among Protestant Christians."

Spiritual death in Christianity - Wikipedia

I hereby formally submit to the entire Human Race that there is no such thing as 'Spiritual Death'.

Furthermore, any teachings on said phrase should be regarded as Heresy and rejected.

You have just been put on notice.

Prove me wrong.

Just because a phrase isn't found as such in scripture that doesn't mean that the topic wasn't discussed.
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." Ephesians 2:1-3
"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." Colossians 2:13-14

 

[Waiting on him]

In this regard, we need to look at a living soul vs a dead soul. Every soul is still made by God (Isaiah 57), and every soul that sins shall die (Ezek 18). God does not make dead souls, but living. Every soul born of a woman is living made by God as with Adam, but now having the nature of sin by Adam's transgression, every soul is predestined to sin unto death.

There were two living souls made by God, who were not so predestined to sin: Adam and Jesus, which is how He is the Second Adam.

The breath of Life is still from the Creator to make living souls in the world, but the Spirit of Life born within us makes us a new creature in Christ Jesus.

There is a difference. Adam was made of flesh and became a living soul, but did not become born of the Spirit of God due to transgression.

Jesus was made of flesh and became a living soul born of the spirit of God in the womb.

We are made of flesh and become living souls, that may be born of the Spirit of God outside the womb by the faith of Jesus.

My point being: we are all made living souls by God, with souls destined to die by the sin nature therein, but we are not all born of the Spirit of God by the faith of Jesus to a new and living soul with the divine nature (2 Peter 1).

We eat of the tree of life in the paradise of God even as Adam (Rev 2), but with the knowledge of the Lord Jesus and His faith to avoid Adam's transgression.

We are all made living souls by the breath of God, until we are certain to sin and die, then we may become new and living souls by the Spirit of Life to walk in the new and living way of Jesus (Heb 10).

One life on earth, 2 souls: First living and then dead, and now alive and quickened again. Rebirth of a soul in one lifetime on earth, not rebirth of man in another lifetime.

Base12 has the right idea, just the wrong framework. Rebirth of a soul in one lifetime on earth, not rebirth of a soul in two different lifetimes.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
[7] Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It’s the spirit that returns. The spirit of man and the soul are not the same thing.

 

[Waiting on him]

Addressing the OP your right. It’s not in there, neither is devoid the Spirit of God.

 

[robert derrick]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
[7] Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It’s the spirit that returns. The spirit of man and the soul are not the same thing.

Then the spirit given makes dusty babes living souls.

The point about dead vs living souls stands the same. We are souls with bodies, not bodies with souls. And it is the souls are first living upon birth, and then die by sin, and then live again by faith...and die twice dead by sin again and fall from faith...

 

[JunChosen]

I don't know if I would apply Isaiah's comment that far. I bel;ieve Adam and Eve are saved, but I don't see the connect from Is. 61 back to God forgiving them.

The Bible explicitly declares that the "wages of sin is death" and both Adam and Eve knew they sinned by eating off of the tree of "good and evil." After eating of the fruit they realized they were naked and were ashamed and hid themselves, hence God said, "Who told thee that thou wast naked?" Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that shouldest not eat? [in this sense, to be "naked" means to be exposed to sin NOT as you think it means being without clothes]. Besides, what has being without clothes have to do with the command to not eat from the tree of good and evil? IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!

You can't apply the word "naked" to Isaiah because you are NOT spiritual!

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine... 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

All people have a spirit, but it may not be the Holy Spirit.

When ones body is dead that body has no Spirit.

 

[robert derrick]

All people have a spirit, but it may not be the Holy Spirit.

When ones body is dead that body has no Spirit.

Accepted. 'Spiritually dead' therefore as a generic term is not accurate.

There is an evil spirit, a lying spirit, etc...And if one has the spirit of antichrist, then not only are dead to God, but twice dead to God, but not 'spiritually dead'.

Dead to the Spirit of God and having not the Spirit is accurate.

 

[kcnalp]

I see nothing wrong with the term "spiritually dead", meaning unsaved.

1 Timothy 5:6 (NKJV)
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

 

[JunChosen]

Accepted. 'Spiritually dead' therefore as a generic term is not accurate.

There is an evil spirit, a lying spirit, etc...And if one has the spirit of antichrist, then not only are dead to God, but twice dead to God, but not 'spiritually dead'.

Dead to the Spirit of God and having not the Spirit is accurate.

"Twice dead" simply means the "second death."

When a saved individual die his body goes back to the dust but his spirit goes to be with the Lord [2 Corinthians 5:8], then his body will be resurrected on the last day to join with his spirit, and forever be with Christ.

On the other hand, when an unsaved individual die both in body and soul he goes back to the dust to await judgment then be destroyed [Matthew 10:28].

To God Be The Glory

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I disagree with your belief that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is only a national sin and doesn't apply to an individual and only when Jesus Christ was on Earth. There's only one sin you can't be forgiven for which is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and all those scriptures I gave you show that you can overstep and be guilty of the unforgivable sin today if one isn't careful.

The Mosaic Law clearly left primary religious authority and instruction in the hands of the priests, the descendants of Aaron, and while
the Pharisees were a prominent religious sect of Judaism in the first century C.E. They were not of priestly descent, but they were strict observers of the Law in its smallest detail, and they elevated oral traditions to the same level. (Mt 23:23)
Some were also members of the Sanhedrin. They often opposed Jesus regarding Sabbath observance, traditions, and association with sinners and tax collectors. Some became Christians, including Saul of Tarsus.—Mt 9:11; 12:14; Mr 7:5; Lu 6:2; Ac 26:5.
There is no mention of this influential group anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures.(Old Testament)
So the point is Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees in Matthew 12, not the nation. 8
The sect of the Pharisees showed how corrupt the people of Israel had become. I understand that most of the Jews listened to the Pharisees and shouldn't have, but that still doesn't mean God recognized the Pharisees as the religious authority, as I said the religious authority God recognized was the one he instituted.

Pharisees of the day were the national leadership of Israel! Saducees controlled the High Priest, the Levites controlled the priesthood, but the Pharisees became the ruling class in Israel under Roman domination.

The Matt/Luke passages were adecision point. Jesus just performed the third and final miracle the Pharisees in their tradition taught only Messiah could do (the 3 being, Healing a man born blind, healing a Jewish leper, and casting the demon out of a deaf and dumb man). this was so well ingrained in much of Jewish culture. that is why when Jesus performed each of these three miracles His numbers grew! And in this case- the people demanded the pharisees acknowledge Jesus as Messiah. As the ruling class of Israel and representative of the nation- they rejected HIm as was prophesied. Jesus pronounced Judgment on the natio0n. It takes a careful reading, but one realizes that the judgment was 70 AD and after the events of Matt. 12, Jesus ended His full open public ministry and no longer taught the people plainly. Matt 13 showed He started His parabolic teaching to hide the truth from the people.

The kingdom promise was removed from that generation of Israel and was given to another generation of Israel. Jesus told that generation that the Pharisees sat in Moses seat (thus represented the authorityof the nation) That is just Bible and actual history. Saducees, Essenes, Zealots, Herodians, Kabbalists are not mentioned in the OT either, but they are also real groups that came and went in Israel. Synagogues were never commanded by god and yet it was during the exile into Babylon when all did not return did the synagogues pop up.

Matt. and Mark speak of the sin of calling the miracles Jesus did by the power of Beelzebub and not the spirit when the people told the pharisees Jesus must be Messiah based on what the Pharisees had been teaching for generations. The Luke passage is a totally different event and warning, or Luke simply condensed things because this was a total Jewish event and Luke's gospel was written primarily for Gentiles. I do not know.