KJV Only...which one!

[Naomanos]

The real proof in the pudding is looking at the doctrines when we compare the KJB vs. Modern Bibles.

This is a false equivalency. You cannot compare the KJB to modern versions, itself being a translation just like they are and it not being the source material.

So, I deny your position based on that alone.

 

[Jim B]

Wow. You call the Bible an empty shell. Yet, you quote from it as if to support your claims.
Jesus said His word are spirit and they are life.
Peter said that Jesus had the words of everlasting life.
What was the seed in the parable of the sower according to the Bible?
Romans 10:17 basically says faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
So you would not even have faith if it was not for the Bible.
You would not know about Jesus and salvation in Him today if it was not for the Bible.

Salvation is not dependent in any way on the Bible. Most of the early believers were illiterate. Many people today don't own Bibles, yet they are believers because of what they have heard.

You contradict yourself when you write "Jesus said His word are spirit and they are life." and "Peter said that Jesus had the words of everlasting life."

"The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help! The words [plural] that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6:63

 

[Jim B]

See below...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Salvation is not dependent in any way on the Bible. Most of the early believers were illiterate. Many people today don't own Bibles, yet they are believers because of what they have heard.

The words that they heard have been immortalized into Scripture (the Bible).
Jesus said to whom much is given, much is required.
So obviously the early church who did not have a complete set of the Scriptures are not under the same responsibility as us who do have a complete Bible. It’s the same with a guy dying on his deathbed and they accept Jesus as their Savior. They don’t have the responsibility of living out their faith and being faithful to the Lord.

You contradict yourself when you write "Jesus said His word are spirit and they are life." and "Peter said that Jesus had the words of everlasting life."

"The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help! The words [plural] that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." John 6:63

I corrected the misspelling before I even seen this post. It was a typo. The point you are not getting is that the actual words are spiritual and they are life giving. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Meaning the very words in your Bible (KJB) are inspired by God. For do you not believe that hearing the Words of God from the Bible can bring everlasting life? Does not a person get the saving gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 from the Bible?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is a false equivalency. You cannot compare the KJB to modern versions, itself being a translation just like they are and it not being the source material.

So, I deny your position based on that alone.

I can compare the KJB vs. Modern Bibles because they each come from two different textual sources.

The KJB comes from the Textus Receptus line of manuscripts, and the Modern Bibles generally come from the Vaticanus and Sinaitus (Alexandrian) line of manuscripts. That is why they differ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay. Taking a lunch break.

I may be back if anyone has anything substantial to offer or if they have any real concerns that need to be explained.

May God bless you all.

 

[Naomanos]

I can compare the KJB vs. Modern Bibles because they each come from two different textual sources.

The KJB comes from the Textus Receptus line of manuscripts, and the Modern Bibles generally come from the Vaticanus and Sinaitus (Alexandrian) line of manuscripts. That is why they differ.

You really cannot. They are all translations and not the source material.

It is still a false equivalency.

 

[Jim B]

Not at all. I have already demonstrated this.

Modern bibles actually change the commands of God and teach false doctrine (See post #458, post #459, post #460 for the list of changed doctrines; And see here for a list of commands changed in God’s Word).



The same reason Jesus spoke in parables and for the same reason Jesus spoke cryptically of His death and resurrection with His disciples vs. spelling it out for them clearly what was about to happen with hand puppets.



While it is possible that there are one horned horses that died out, or the one horned aurochs (bulls), unicorns can also simply be in reference to any one horned animal, too.

Here is a Science book on unicorns.

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-History-Unicorns-Chris-Lavers-ebook/dp/B002M41TTI/

I am done discussing this issue with you (or any other matter). You are clearly mistaken in a) your beliefs and b) your insistence that the KJV is the only true word of God.

 

[JesusFan1]

But your demonstration has no merit. Your statement that "Modern (capitalized?) bibles teach false doctrines, etcetera" is meaningless. Not only is this a false statement but you fail to give any examples of why you believe it.

If the olde King James translation is so perfect, why don't you read/write/speak in early 17th century Englyshe? Don't you want to be clearly understood?

P.S. How is your unicorn doing? "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn." Numbers 23:22 KJV

I am STILL waiting to see which Christian doctrines are changed or denied by MV, and how about Easter in Acts?

 

[Jim B]

I am STILL waiting to see which Christian doctrines are changed or denied by MV, and how about Easter in Acts?

Keep waiting...

 

[amadeus]

Wow. You call the Bible an empty shell. Yet, you quote from it as if to support your claims.
Jesus said His words are spirit and they are life.

Jesus spoke no words at all from the time he died on the cross until after he was resurrected. That was the dead shell time.
Your reaction to me lets me know that you also do not understand where I am on this. I cherish my Bibles and have read them daily, seven days a week for many years.

Peter said that Jesus had the words of everlasting life.
What was the seed in the parable of the sower according to the Bible?
Romans 10:17 basically says faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
So you would not even have faith if it was not for the Bible.
You would not know about Jesus and salvation in Him today if it was not for the Bible.

You have missed my point. Consider the record of Nehushtan in the scriptures.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus spoke no words at all from the time he died on the cross until after he was resurrected. That was the dead shell time.

First, the OT Scriptures existed even when Jesus died upon the cross. So no. This was no dead shell time.
The Scriptures were being fulfilled.

Second, you said before, I quote:

“For me, as I see it, the Bible is an empty shell
[like the dead unresurrected body of Jesus on the cross]
without the quickening Spirit.”
Quote by: ~ amadeus.
​

So you are implying here that the Bible is lifeless unless God intervenes. But that’s not what the Bible teaches.

Jeremiah 23:29 says,
“Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?”

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you”

And lets continue to read:

1 Peter 2:1-3
“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”

So we are born again by the communicated Word (the Bible) which is called the incorruptible seed. You believe the Bible is a dead shell (corruptible seed) whereby God has to breath life in it so as to get the person to believe. But the Bible does not teach that.

Your reaction to me lets me know that you also do not understand where I am on this. I cherish my Bibles and have read them daily, seven days a week for many years.

A person can cherish the writings of Shakespeare, but cherishing these kinds of works will not save a person.
It’s not enough to just cherish the Bible, but we have to believe that His words are spirit and they are life.
This is what it means to be born again by water. See Ephesians 5:25-27 and 1 Peter 1:23-25.

You have missed my point. Consider the record of Nehushtan in the scriptures.

2 Kings 18:4 is an example in God’s Word showing how they took the serpent on the pole (the symbol that pointed ahead to Christ) beyond God’s instructions. They were going outside of what God’s Word said and this is a story showing how we are not to go beyond what God says and make idols, etcetera. This in no way proves that the Bible is an empty shell until God comes and breathes life into those words. The words themselves are inspired by God and they are like a hammer and like fire. God always abides by His word or words. God’s words are life giving. But a person has to RECEIVE those words into their heart in order for those words to have any spiritual effect upon the person.

The parable of the sower gives this example. It shows that the seed is the Word of God (Luke 8:11), and according to the Parable of the Weeds, the sower is the Son of Man (Jesus) (See: Matthew 13:37). So we know that the seed is the Communicated Word of God in the Parable of the Sower. The seed grew into a healthy living plant. The Word of God has to grow in our hearts. But if we do not believe any portion of Scripture that is life giving, those words will be stolen out of hear by the devil before we have a chance to let that Word from God take root in our hearts. For whatever you don’t believe, the enemy will take it away from you. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and wickedness in high places (2 Corinthians 10:4). We are in a spiritual war, and the Word is spiritual all on it’s own. This is why Satan seeks to corrupt God’s words and we see that with Modern bibles.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am STILL waiting to see which Christian doctrines are changed or denied by MV,

Then you have not been reading this thread.

I already mentioned how Modern bibles actually change the commands of God and teach false doctrine (See post #458, post #459, post #460 for the list of changed doctrines; And see here for a list of commands changed in God’s Word).

and how about Easter in Acts?

Is the KJB wrong for rendering "Pascha" as the English word "Easter" in Acts of the Apostles 12:4?

No. Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":

See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today

Before you said you did not attack the KJB (Even though you indirectly did so with recommending a book that does attack the KJB and by suggesting that the KJB is Catholic influenced). Now it seems like it is open season on the King James Bible.

 

[amadeus]

First, the OT Scriptures existed even when Jesus died upon the cross. So no. This was no dead shell time.
The Scriptures were being fulfilled.

Second, you said before, I quote:

“For me, as I see it, the Bible is an empty shell
[like the dead unresurrected body of Jesus on the cross]
without the quickening Spirit.”
Quote by: ~ amadeus.
​

So you are implying here that the Bible is lifeless unless God intervenes. But that’s not what the Bible teaches.

I believe that the written Bible was written as men were inspired by God to write it. In the Book it has potential but it comes to Life only in a person as it is quickened by the Holy Spirit. The unopened unread Book has no Life in it. When it is quickened, then it is the Word of God. Jesus was/is the Word of God.

Jeremiah 23:29 says,
“Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?”

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh

is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you”

And lets continue to read:

1 Peter 2:1-3
“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”

So we are born again by the communicated Word (the Bible) which is called the incorruptible seed. You believe the Bible is a dead shell (corruptible seed) whereby God has to breath life in it so as to get the person to believe. But the Bible does not teach that.

A person can cherish the writings of Shakespeare, but cherishing these kinds of works will not save a person.
It’s not enough to just cherish the Bible, but we have to believe that His words are spirit and they are life.
This is what it means to be born again by water. See Ephesians 5:25-27 and 1 Peter 1:23-25.

2 Kings 18:4 is an example in God’s Word showing how they took the serpent on the pole (the symbol that pointed ahead to Christ) beyond God’s instructions. They were going outside of what God’s Word said and this is a story showing how we are not to go beyond what God says and make idols, etcetera. This in no way proves that the Bible is an empty shell until God comes and breathes life into those words. The words themselves are inspired by God and they are like a hammer and like fire. God always abides by His word or words. God’s words are life giving. But a person has to RECEIVE those words into their heart in order for those words to have any spiritual effect upon the person.

The parable of the sower gives this example. It shows that the seed is the Word of God (Luke 8:11), and according to the Parable of the Weeds, the sower is the Son of Man (Jesus) (See: Matthew 13:37). So we know that the seed is the Communicated Word of God in the Parable of the Sower. The seed grew into a healthy living plant. The Word of God has to grow in our hearts. But if we do not believe any portion of Scripture that is life giving, those words will be stolen out of hear by the devil before we have a chance to let that Word from God take root in our hearts. For whatever you don’t believe, the enemy will take it away from you. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and wickedness in high places (2 Corinthians 10:4). We are in a spiritual war, and the Word is spiritual all on it’s own. This is why Satan seeks to corrupt God’s words and we see that with Modern bibles.

I won't debate the subject with you. We both love the Word of God. We simply have different ideas about what it is. Without my daily sessions with God I could not make it through the day. Each morning I start with Bible reading, worship and prayer or conversation with God.

 

[JesusFan1]

Then you have not been reading this thread.

I already mentioned how Modern bibles actually change the commands of God and teach false doctrine (See post #458, post #459, post #460 for the list of changed doctrines; And see here for a list of commands changed in God’s Word).



Is the KJB wrong for rendering "Pascha" as the English word "Easter" in Acts of the Apostles 12:4?

No. Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":

See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today

Before you said you did not attack the KJB (Even though you indirectly did so with recommending a book that does attack the KJB and by suggesting that the KJB is Catholic influenced). Now it seems like it is open season on the King James Bible.

The persons who were first hearing that term would have seen it as being jewish Passover time though!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The persons who were first hearing that term would have seen it as being jewish Passover time though!

But that does not matter. It’s how that word is translated today that matters. Words can change in meaning with the passage of time. For example: The word “gay” used to mean happy, but today folks would not dare say that word loudly in public in their work place out of the blue.

Anyways, I am not sure you are able to see the truth on this matter, friend. You are stuck in a feedback loop that the Originals Only are the only perfectly inspired text and that no copy can ever be perfect (When the Bible does not even teach that). In fact, the problem with this line of thinking is who gets to decide what is false and or true in the Bible? For as you know, the Originals don’t exist anymore. See, this is why in Modern Scholarship: The scholar or the individual reader gets to decide what is in God’s Word or not. THEY become the authority and not God and His Word. Therein lies the problem (that you are unable to see).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe that the written Bible was written as men were inspired by God to write it. In the Book it has potential but it comes to Life only in a person as it is quickened by the Holy Spirit. The unopened unread Book has no Life in it. When it is quickened, then it is the Word of God. Jesus was/is the Word of God.

I won't debate the subject with you. We both love the Word of God. We simply have different ideas about what it is. Without my daily sessions with God I could not make it through the day. Each morning I start with Bible reading, worship and prayer or conversation with God.

I am going to stick with the Bible on this one. Why? Well, here is a list I partially created showing…

The Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:

1. Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).
   
   
2. Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).
   
   
3. Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).
   
   
4. Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).
   
   
5. Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).
   
   
6. Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).
   
   
7. Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).
   
   
8. Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).
   
   
9. Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).
   
   
10. Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).
    
    
11. Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).
    
    
12. Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).
    
    
13. Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).
    
    
14. Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).
    
    
15. Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).
    
    
16. Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).
    
    
17. It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).
    
    
18. Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).
    
    
19. Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
    
    
20. Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).
    
    
21. Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).
    
    
22. A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).
    
    
23. Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).
    
    
24. Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).
    
    
25. Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).
    
    
26. Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).
    
    
27. Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
    
    
28. Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).
    
    
29. The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).
    
    
30. Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
    
    
31. Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).
    
    
32. Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).
    
    
33. Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
34. Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
35. Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).
    
    
36. Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).
    
    
37. Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).
    
    
38. Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).
    
    
39. Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).
    
    
40. Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).

..41. Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11) (Note: See here for further details).


The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).​

Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Bible Highlighter]