KJV Only...which one!

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JesusFan1

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But that does not matter. It’s how that word is translated today that matters. Words can change in meaning with the passage of time. For example: The word “gay” used to mean happy, but today folks would not dare say that word loudly in public in their work place out of the blue.

Anyways, I am not sure you are able to see the truth on this matter, friend. You are stuck in a feedback loop that the Originals Only are the only perfectly inspired text and that no copy can ever be perfect (When the Bible does not even teach that). In fact, the problem with this line of thinking is who gets to decide what is false and or true in the Bible? For as you know, the Originals don’t exist anymore. See, this is why in Modern Scholarship: The scholar or the individual reader gets to decide what is in God’s Word or not. THEY become the authority and not God and His Word. Therein lies the problem (that you are unable to see).
Proper translation would be to use what the term would have meant to those of that time receiving the passage in Acts!
 

Bible Highlighter

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The translator always tries to get back to what it mean to the original readers and hearers of the text!

Again, says who? Does the Bible talk about this line of thinking? If so, make your case. Otherwise you are asserting your own thoughts.
 

amadeus

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I am going to stick with the Bible on this one. Why? Well, here is a list I partially created showing…

The Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:


  1. Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).

  2. Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).

  3. Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).

  4. Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).

  5. Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).

  6. Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

  7. Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).

  8. Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).

  9. Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).

  10. Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).

  11. Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).

  12. Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).

  13. Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).

  14. Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).

  15. Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).

  16. Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).

  17. It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).

  18. Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).

  19. Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

  20. Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).

  21. Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).

  22. A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).

  23. Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).

  24. Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).

  25. Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).

  26. Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).

  27. Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).

  28. Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).

  29. The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).

  30. Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

  31. Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).

  32. Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).

  33. Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

  34. Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

  35. Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).

  36. Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).

  37. Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).

  38. Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).

  39. Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).

  40. Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).
..41. Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11) (Note: See here for further details).


The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).

Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Where is it written that the Word became a book?

Sometimes the difference between the two viewpoints, yours and mine, may not make a difference, but for when it does, I would choose the Word out of God's mouth rather than elsewhere! Remember Nehushstan... a good thing, until used the wrong way.

Has anyone ever used the that which came from God the wrong way?
 

Bible Highlighter

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The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Where is it written that the Word became a book?

*Sigh*

Nowhere did I say that Jesus became a book. I am saying that there is a relationship between the Living Word (Jesus) and the Communicated Word (the Bible), just as their is relationship between human beings, and human speech.

The Communicated Word is merely the expressed words of the mind of God. But it just seems like people want to lobotomize GOD and or throw His words away, or say they were corrupted by men (Whereby they are not entirely trustworthy - so the scholar or THEY must tell us what God’s Word says or does not say; They become some kind of truth detector machine who is infallible to knowing the truth). Again, Mormons confirm truth by some kind of burning in the bosom. What is your standard? Is it a feeling that God is leading you to what is the correct words in a translation? How is that subjective or impartial? It could simply be YOU and your own thoughts desiring what you want to be true, and not God talking to you. This is why we need a final Word of authority or a perfect Bible that we cannot change to our own liking.

You said:
Sometimes the difference between the two viewpoints, yours and mine, may not make a difference, but for when it does, I would choose the Word out of God's mouth rather than elsewhere! Remember Nehushstan... a good thing, until used the wrong way.

*Face palm* Nehushtan was the false pagan name (for the false god) that they idol worshiped involving the serpent on the pole. It was never a name that God gave the serpent on the pole for the Israelites for it. So the name Nehushtan in 2 Kings 18:4 was never a good thing. The point is that they turned something good into an idol. This in no way defends your erroneous viewpoint that the words of the Bible are like a lifeless empty shell unless God intervenes to breath life into them. All Scripture is already God breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

You said:
Has anyone ever used the that which came from God the wrong way?

Yes, I believe that is what you are doing when you deny that the words of Scripture are powerless unless God intervenes. God’s Word says His words are like a hammer and they are like fire. It does not say they are like a hammer temporarily only when He intervenes to make His words to be like a hammer when He moves to do so. We are born again by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God. Again, look at the long list of verses I gave you and look at the verses I provided if you don’t believe me.
 

Bible Highlighter

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You always are to get what the original intent was!

But who is the scribe or scholar telling you what the original word means? How do you know they are correct on the original meaning; Especially seeing that the original languages have been long gone for a really long time from now? Are the scribes of the original language dictionaries perfect in their translation of the originals? Are Lexicons inspired works of God? How do you truly know they are not being influenced by beliefs they want to be true?
 

Jane_Doe22

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*Sigh*

Nowhere did I say that Jesus became a book. I am saying that there is a relationship between the Living Word (Jesus) and the Communicated Word (the Bible), just as their is relationship between human beings, and human speech.

The Communicated Word is merely the expressed words of the mind of God. But it just seems like people want to lobotomize GOD and or throw His words away, or say they were corrupted by men (Whereby they are not entirely trustworthy - so the scholar or THEY must tell us what God’s Word says or does not say; They become some kind of truth detector machine who is infallible to knowing the truth). Again, Mormons confirm truth by some kind of burning in the bosom. What is your standard? Is it a feeling that God is leading you to what is the correct words in a translation? How is that subjective or impartial? It could simply be YOU and your own thoughts desiring what you want to be true, and not God talking to you. This is why we need a final Word of authority or a perfect Bible that we cannot change to our own liking.
That standard in which a person should investigate and determine the Lord's Truth is by earnest/thoughtful study and prayer. The Holy Spirit will enlighten and earnest seeker's mind and help them understand, step by step (you don't learn everything at once).

It is NOT looking to other men/councils/traditions, you whimsically deciding what is true, or mindlessly parroting "well I was always told this was true" or "I was always told the Bible is true". No! Earnest, diligent, thoughtful, prayerful study.
 

amadeus

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*Sigh*

Nowhere did I say that Jesus became a book. I am saying that there is a relationship between the Living Word (Jesus) and the Communicated Word (the Bible), just as their is relationship between human beings, and human speech.

The Communicated Word is merely the expressed words of the mind of God. But it just seems like people want to lobotomize GOD and or throw His words away, or say they were corrupted by men (Whereby they are not entirely trustworthy - so the scholar or THEY must tell us what God’s Word says or does not say; They become some kind of truth detector machine who is infallible to knowing the truth). Again, Mormons confirm truth by some kind of burning in the bosom. What is your standard? Is it a feeling that God is leading you to what is the correct words in a translation? How is that subjective or impartial? It could simply be YOU and your own thoughts desiring what you want to be true, and not God talking to you. This is why we need a final Word of authority or a perfect Bible that we cannot change to our own liking.


*Face palm* Nehushtan was the false pagan name (for the false god) that they idol worshiped involving the serpent on the pole. It was never a name that God gave the serpent on the pole for the Israelites for it. So the name Nehushtan in 2 Kings 18:4 was never a good thing. The point is that they turned something good into an idol. This in no way defends your erroneous viewpoint that the words of the Bible are like a lifeless empty shell unless God intervenes to breath life into them. All Scripture is already God breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Nehushtan simply means "a brass thing". Back when, as directed by God, the serpent was constructed by Moses [Num 21:8-9], it was a brass thing, but with a definite positive purpose according to God's will. It only became evil when people changed its purpose to something other than God's purpose and began to worship it [II Kings 18:4].

Some people. I believe, have done that with the written Bible... especially those who have never developed a real and proper connection with God, Himself.

Men did the same thing back in the beginning. Note this verse:

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31

"Every thing" that God had made was "very good", but men misused the very good things starting with the disobedience of Adam and Eve and have continued to do so.

This is so with God's Word. This lesson of Nehushtan applies also to our written Bibles... all of them. Without the Holy Spirit, the Bible itself can be, and too often is, misused... in and for purposes that are not God's.

This is what Satan did when he tried to use scripture against Jesus, the very Word of God. Of course, it did not work. [Matthew chapter 4]

A similar occurrence is found in I Kings chapter 13 when the unnamed prophet sent out of Judah to King Jeroboam listens to the old prophet blindly and foolishly heeds his advice without interacting with or asking God for His will for the situation: The prophet out of Judah was slain by a lion on his way home. Nonetheless his prophecy about King Josiah with God came to pass about 350 years later...


Yes, I believe that is what you are doing when you deny that the words of Scripture are powerless unless God intervenes. God’s Word says His words are like a hammer and they are like fire.
In most everything you say you are presuming the written words of scripture have some power of their own, that they are Alive accomplishing God's will even when the Bible remains closed and unread. Closed and unread they are like Jesus dead on the cross... silent! He was dead! Then he resurrected and again was speaking the Word of God which he was.

People today who read and study the scriptures do not always have the power of the Word in themselves because while they may have eaten of his Flesh when they read or heard what was written in the Bible, they did not also drink of his Blood. The two are necessary for Life!

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

The blood to be drunk is Not the red blood of body of flesh that was shed on Calvary, but rather the white or pure or clean blood shed in accord with Acts chapter 2.

The red carnal blood gives life to the flesh of a man which is appointed to die, but what blood is it which gives Life to the new man so that a person will never die?

Why were the natural children of Israel [Jacob] told not to eat the blood of their sacrifices? Because it was the wrong blood! It was the red blood, the life source of man's carnality:

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood." Lev 17:11-12

The Blood the Body of Christ is not that red blood!
He brought something infinitely better: the Holy Spirit... the Life Blood of the Body of Christ!

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6


It does not say they are like a hammer temporarily only when He intervenes to make His words to be like a hammer when He moves to do so. We are born again by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God. Again, look at the long list of verses I gave you and look at the verses I provided if you don’t believe me.
The Words Jesus spoke were Life because Jesus Himself was Life and His Words were His Father's Words. Our words, even words memorized from the written scriptures, are Not alive unless and until they are quickened within us by the Holy Spirit!

Too many Bible reading and believing people routinely and very regularly quench the Holy Spirit within and so their words from the scriptures are lifeless. This includes too often too many preachers and teachers in church settings.

Were the following words written for naught?

"Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice." Phil 4:4

"Pray without ceasing" I Thess 5:17

"Quench not the Spirit" I Thess 5:19
 

Bible Highlighter

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That standard in which a person should investigate and determine the Lord's Truth is by earnest/thoughtful study and prayer. The Holy Spirit will enlighten and earnest seeker's mind and help them understand, step by step (you don't learn everything at once).

It is NOT looking to other men/councils/traditions, you whimsically deciding what is true, or mindlessly parroting "well I was always told this was true" or "I was always told the Bible is true". No! Earnest, diligent, thoughtful, prayerful study.

I am not denying that the truth of God’s Word is spiritually taught by the Spirit (Which would include praying to God for the understanding). I am a big fan of 1 John 2:27 that says that the brethren John was writing to did not need any man to teach them because they had the Anointing (the Spirit). The problem is that they did not say Scripture was flawed and or an empty shell whereby God needs to intervene in the life of the believer to help them to figure out what is true or false in corrupted words. The poster I am talking to believes God can talk to a person even in a poor translation. So this means we can use poor translations and God can still talk to us through it. This then means truth is subjective to the whims of the person and it is not really God speaking to them if such is the case because we cannot make ourselves or our own thoughts the standard of truth.

I am also not denying that we should study God’s Word. In fact, Modern Bibles distort 2 Timothy 2:15 in the King James Bible.

2 Timothy 2:15 KJB says,
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

Modern Bibles don’t tell you to study to show yourself approved unto God but they telling you to Do your best to present yourself approved unto God and they thus obscure the truth that we need to study God’s Word (Which is a command from God).
 

Jane_Doe22

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I am not denying that the truth of God’s Word is spiritually taught by the Spirit (Which would include praying to God for the understanding). I am a big fan of 1 John 2:27 that says that the brethren John was writing to did not need any man to teach them because they had the Anointing (the Spirit). The problem is that they did not say Scripture was flawed and or an empty shell whereby God needs to intervene in the life of the believer to help them to figure out what is true or false in corrupted words. The poster I am talking to believes God can talk to a person even in a poor translation. So this means we can use poor translations and God can still talk to us through it. This then means truth is subjective to the whims of the person and it is not really God speaking to them if such is the case because we cannot make ourselves or our own thoughts the standard of truth.

I am also not denying that we should study God’s Word. In fact, Modern Bibles distort 2 Timothy 2:15 in the King James Bible.

2 Timothy 2:15 KJB says,
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

Modern Bibles don’t tell you to study to show yourself approved unto God but they telling you to Do your best to present yourself approved unto God and they thus obscure the truth that we need to study God’s Word (Which is a command from God).
I would phrase it this way: yes, being careful with translations is SUPER important. I also dislike a lot of the modern Bible translations, and personally use the KJV. However, God's power to speak to an earnest heart is not limited by the quality of the human translator.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Nehushtan simply means "a brass thing". Back when, as directed by God, the serpent was constructed by Moses [Num 21:8-9], it was a brass thing, but with a definite positive purpose according to God's will. It only became evil when people changed its purpose to something other than God's purpose and began to worship it [II Kings 18:4].

Some people. I believe, have done that with the written Bible... especially those who have never developed a real and proper connection with God, Himself.

Oh, brother.


full

full

full


Okay. Time out here.

I would say Catholics are more in the wrong in that they kiss and bow down to sacred objects. For example: Catholic priests have been known to kiss the Bible. This to me is wrong. This to me would be making the Bible like an idol (and they do not even believe in Sola Scriptura). However, to suggest that believers or Christians actually regard the Bible as God Himself is silly. Most Christians believe God is a spirit being. Most Christians believe in the Trinity and that we should worship God as a spirit being. They regard the Bible as the expressed thoughts of God, or the mind of God, and they revere these words. It's like a love letter that a woman gets from her fiance who is in another country. She may cherish his words in the letter, but that does not mean she takes the letter out on dinner dates and or talks with the letter, and kisses the letter as if it was him. I know of no normal believer that does that.

But I would say that there is power in the Word of God and it has the capability to change your life just by believing it and putting it into practice and by hearing over and over and over again. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. We are also told negative things about those who speak against the Word, as well.

The word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).
The word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).

The word is light (Psalms 119:105).
The word is life (John 6:63).
The word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).
The word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).
The word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).

The word can get men through a storm (
Matthew 7:24-25).
The word sanctifies (
John 17:17).
The word will judge men (
John 12:48).
The word is never broken (
John 10:35).
Believers are told to seek after the word (
Isaiah 34:16).
The word is our hope (
Psalms 130:5).
Believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (
Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
Keeping the word places the love of God within us (
1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).
Obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (
Matthew 7:24).
Believers are to order their steps in the word (
Psalms 119:133).
The word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (
2 Timothy 3:16-17).
The word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (
2 Timothy 3:16-17).
The word can abide in us (
John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).
The word dwells in our hearts (
Colossians 3:16).
The word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).
The word can make our joy full (
1 John 1:4).
Believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (
Jeremiah 15:16).
By the word is what makes the gospel possible (
1 Peter 1:25). Can you be saved without the gospel? If not, then please stop attacking the Bible by calling it a dead shell.
Please read carefully the verses above here.
 

Bible Highlighter

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I would phrase it this way: yes, being careful with translations is SUPER important. I also dislike a lot of the modern Bible translations, and personally use the KJV. However, God's power to speak to an earnest heart is not limited by the quality of the human translator.

I use Modern Translations all the time, and I believe God can talk to us through them, but they cannot be our final Word of authority because they also teach many false doctrines (unlike the KJB). So whenever I read the Word and I decide to use a Modern Translation to help with clarity in what the KJB is saying, the KJB is still my final Word of authority. The final word is the KJB for me.
 

Jane_Doe22

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I use Modern Translations all the time, and I believe God can talk to us through them, but they cannot be our final Word of authority because they also teach many false doctrines (unlike the KJB). So whenever I read the Word and I decide to use a Modern Translation to help with clarity in what the KJB is saying, the KJB is my final Word of authority.
I would say that God Himself is the final authority.

Scripture is super super super important, but as you yourself pointed out in #773 it's not God nor should we make it an idol.
 

Bible Highlighter

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"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31

"Every thing" that God had made was "very good", but men misused the very good things starting with the disobedience of Adam and Eve and have continued to do so.

The creation is not the same thing as God’s words. The creation is God’s handiwork and it declares His glory, but the creation itself does not exactly lead men to salvation like the words of God can.

You said:
This is so with God's Word. This lesson of Nehushtan applies also to our written Bibles... all of them. Without the Holy Spirit, the Bible itself can be, and too often is, misused... in and for purposes that are not God's.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. God breathed is all Scripture. When God speaks His words, they are like a hammer. His words are like a fire. You may not believe these things in Scripture, but I do. Yes, the words of God must be obeyed in order for them to have a more appropriate effect, but even God used the devil to accomplish his purposes and God immortalized that account in Scripture for us to read about. The devil was defeated by Scripture by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Thus, it is the sword of the Spirit. The devil can quote God’s word but he seeks to distort it and attack it. The devil is doomed and he is not capable of being able to believe in what God’s word says.

You said:
This is what Satan did when he tried to use scripture against Jesus, the very Word of God. Of course, it did not work. [Matthew chapter 4]

Why didn’t it work? Because the word of God are like dead words to Satan. He’s not a human being, but a fallen angel. You cannot compare a fallen angel whose fate is sealed in the Lake of Fire and compare that to human beings who can be convicted of sin by God and the Scriptures. Sure, men can harden their hearts against God and His words. But that is not to say that they don’t have some kind of an affect upon evil hard hearted men. Remember, the Jews who stoned Stephen. The words of God Stephen had spoken pricked their hearts in such a way that it upset them greatly. The Word of God had an effect on them alright. The devil is also affected by the Word of God. He hates it. He will do everything in his power to get people to not believe because he takes the seed out of the heart of a person who does not believe in those particular words from God. One of the first attacks of the devil in the Garden was on God’s words. So yes. The word of God has an affect. It can be either positive or negative, but it does have an affect. They are powerful because God’s words are spiritual.

God’s Word does not return void (Despite your protestation that His words are like a dead shell until God intervenes on certain occasions to breath life into them for momentary points in time).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I would say that God Himself is the final authority.

Scripture is super super super important, but as you yourself pointed out in #773 it's not God nor should we make it an idol.

But we would not know about God unless it was revealed to us by His Word the Bible. If some spirit claims to be God that runs contrary to the Bible, then it is not God. God magnifies His Word above His name (See: Psalms 138:2).
 

Jane_Doe22

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But we would not know about God unless it was revealed to us by His Word the Bible. If some spirit claims to be God that runs contrary to the Bible, then it is not God. God magnifies His Word above His name (See: Psalms 138:2).
I'm going to politely disagree with you there. I don't find God & His power to reveal Himself to be limited to one text. Which is not to insult the text (scripture is super super important), but it is not like the only letter from some dead relative. God still lives, and His power & ways are infinite.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Nehushtan simply means "a brass thing". Back when, as directed by God, the serpent was constructed by Moses [Num 21:8-9], it was a brass thing, but with a definite positive purpose according to God's will. It only became evil when people changed its purpose to something other than God's purpose and began to worship it [II Kings 18:4].
This is so with God's Word. This lesson of Nehushtan applies also to our written Bibles... all of them. Without the Holy Spirit, the Bible itself can be, and too often is, misused... in and for purposes that are not God's.

You don’t seem to understand how God is sovereign and how He can operate. Nothing in life happens by accident. Although, the Jews misused God’s instructions involving the serpent on the pole later on, that situation was written for future generations of believers and their instruction not to go down a similar pathway. Remember. All Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works (Including the story involving the serpent on the pole that was later turned into an idol wrongfully).

In the book of Genesis: What Joseph’s brothers intended for evil against Joseph, God intended it for a great good in the end. Joseph’s brothers ended up reconciling with their brother in the end. So God is one step ahead of us always. What looks like a bad situation, God is able to turn it around for good. For all things work together for good to those who love God.

You said:
A similar occurrence is found in I Kings chapter 13 when the unnamed prophet sent out of Judah to King Jeroboam listens to the old prophet blindly and foolishly heeds his advice without interacting with or asking God for His will for the situation: The prophet out of Judah was slain by a lion on his way home.

I am aware of the story. But you missed a major lesson from it. The man of God died because He disobeyed God’s words. He chose to believe words that were not from God over what God said. So he did not fully trust God’s words. This is why the man of God died. It was because he did not fully trust God’s words. It’s not that God’s words are not powerful and effective. They most certainly are. As I said before, God’s words can either have a positive or negative affect upon an individual. God’s words became a stumbling stone to him, and he died because He did not trust God’s words. Jesus says if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48).

But the point is this: The story is written for OUR LEARNING and instruction. Where the man of God failed, it was written because all Scripture is given by inspiration of God is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works (See: 2 Timothy 3:16-17). So this real life story recorded in Scripture was not for nothing. It no doubt helped tons of believers to stay the course in trusting God’s words even when they don’t make rational sense. You want to make rational carnal sense out of how God’s words because you think His words are spiritual only when God intervenes to make that happen but the Bible does not explain this kind of thing at all. God’s Word simply says His words are spiritual, and they are life, and they are like a hammer, and they are like fire. You simply don’t believe what God’s word says like the man of God who did not believe God’s words in 1 Kings 13. You are trying to rationalize things with carnal thinking rather than just believing what God said. Sorry. That’s just how I see it, brother.

You said:
Nonetheless his prophecy about King Josiah with God came to pass about 350 years later...

Yes. That’s because God’s Word does not return void.

You said:
In most everything you say you are presuming the written words of scripture have some power of their own, that they are Alive accomplishing God's will even when the Bible remains closed and unread.

How many people on the planet do you think exists? How many of them own a Bible or memorized many parts of Scripture? To assume that there are moments that a person is not studying the Bible or meditating on God’s words is pretty silly. The Bible is one of the top sellers. So you think the Bible remains closed and unread on our planet. While people sleep on one side of the planet, others are awake on the other side of the globe. Men gain comfort and hope from the Bible. Maybe they don’t all get it, right. This is true, but the Word of God is working in their life in some way. For example: A person can be saved hearing a prosperity preacher inviting them to accept Jesus as their Savior. So while the preacher may not be saved, the words that the preacher is using can work life in that person. So again, God’s words do not return void.

You said:
Closed and unread they are like Jesus dead on the cross... silent! He was dead! Then he resurrected and again was speaking the Word of God which he was.

We are not the only believers on the planet. The body of Christ is made up many believers that span the globe. They most undoubtedly are living out the words of God or meditating upon the Word.

Oh, and by the way. Christ was in the heart of the Earth as the second person of the Trinity. Christ can still give life even without His physical body. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. Christ lives in believers because Christ is the source of a persons’ everlasting life. Without Christ in you (the hope of glory), there is no life. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus was not stopped and dead and gone by death. The body was just a shell. The words in our Bible is not like a dead shell (like the dead body of Christ) until Christ makes them alive for a person. That’s nonsense. The Bible does not teach such a thing at all. That’s your own personal teaching that runs contrary to what the Bible says, my friend. I can only encourage you to again believe what the Bible says on this matter. Jesus says his words are spirit and they are life. Peter says that Jesus had the words of everlasting life. There are no conditions placed upon God’s words as you say.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I'm going to politely disagree with you there. I don't find God & His power to reveal Himself to be limited to one text. Which is not to insult the text (scripture is super super important), but it is not like the only letter from some dead relative. God still lives, and His power & ways are infinite.

So you believe a person can be saved without the Bible?
If so… take heed.

Isaiah 8:20 says,
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”