Are There People Doomed For Destruction?

[quietthinker]

sounds like fascism to me tbh

…after He has destroyed all rulers, powers, and authority
seems to suggest a different scenario maybe

destroying death itself ought to give perspective.

 

[GEN2REV]

I somehow thought we were on the same page on this subject. My mistake. Sometimes I assume, without really thinking, that most Sabbath-keepers think alike.

I'm still not following.

What does the Sabbath have to do with people being doomed to destruction?

 

[quietthinker]

we sure think we can, huh?
but how easy is it to misjudge a situation, especially if we are only bystanders?

things have to have a point?

The perspective I have is that of God countering the misrepresentation of himself Lucifer spread throughout the Universe.
It appears a third of the angels were persuaded Lucifer had a just cause. That's a mystery in itself.

Lucifer is in a certain hurry.....he ultimately pushes his driving ambition through proactively terminating life. God on the other hand nurtures life....he heals, he absorbs evil, long-suffering means he never gives up.

These two opposing forces are on display for all intelligent beings to observe and decide. Trickery is not in Gods arsenal, neither is force or coercion in any form.

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm still not following.

What does the Sabbath have to do with people being doomed to destruction?

Not a thing

 

[robert derrick]

In another thread I asked @stunnedbygrace this question but did not get a response. If you do not believe there are people doomed to destruction, how do you deal with the Pharaoh of the Exodus and with Judas?

By sinning unto death without repenting and obeying the gospel instead.

 

[GEN2REV]

Not a thing

So do you believe all people have an equal opportunity to be saved and are only condemned by their choices?

 

[bbyrd009]

Revelation 1
7...And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

so, when i hear "i loves me some Jesus" i mean it's cute. but imo completely from Esau; following Christ can be a real pain, in the moment. So my guess is that is what this passage is trying to relate. I say this bc "earth" and not "world" like one might think, but i gotta check the greek...ya, ge, and "mourn" might better be xlated "wail," maybe, as in "moan and complain" (mine)

 

[bbyrd009]

The perspective I have is that of God countering the misrepresentation of himself Lucifer spread throughout the Universe.
It appears a third of the angels were persuaded Lucifer had a just cause. That's a mystery in itself.

Lucifer is in a certain hurry.....he ultimately pushes his driving ambition through proactively terminating life. God on the other hand nurtures life....he heals, he absorbs evil, long-suffering means he never gives up.

These two opposing forces are on display for all intelligent beings to observe and decide. Trickery is not in Gods arsenal, neither is force or coercion in any form.

im def inclined to agree, but then why Jesus whipping "animals" out of the courtyard? iow that would necessarily suggest a more spiritual interp there i guess

 

[quietthinker]

im def inclined to agree, but then why Jesus whipping "animals" out of the courtyard? iow that would necessarily suggest a more spiritual interp there i guess

The authoritative crack of a whip is probably necessary to move large animals languishing in the heat of the day. I doubt Jesus used it on the animals or the people.
The mention of getting the doves out of there to their handlers says he didn't go in like a bull in a china shop.

We have this tendency as humans to find something about violent revenge attractive. We can see this principle in the many movies produced. We itch to pay back the opposition with the worst we can imagine.......and now we have superimposed that itch onto God by declaring on the Bible that God will fry the opposition.....and that for eternity!

Have we not adopted, nay, absorbed the very spirit of the enemy in this travesty?

 

[BarneyFife]

So do you believe all people have an equal opportunity to be saved and are only condemned by their choices?

I believe what the Bible says about how a person can be saved.

 

[BarneyFife]

and now we have superimposed that itch onto God by declaring on the Bible that God will fry the opposition.....and that for eternity!

Not me, friend.

 

[GEN2REV]

The authoritative crack of a whip is probably necessary to move large animals languishing in the heat of the day. I doubt Jesus used it on the animals or the people.
The mention of getting the doves out of there to their handlers says he didn't go in like a bull in a china shop.

We have this tendency as humans to find something about violent revenge attractive. We can see this principle in the many movies produced. We itch to pay back the opposition with the worst we can imagine.......and now we have superimposed that itch onto God by declaring on the Bible that God will fry the opposition.....and that for eternity!

Have we not adopted, nay, absorbed the very spirit of the enemy in this travesty?

You and I have disagreed about this before.

I just don't see "overcome with passion for your house" Psalms 69:9; John 2:17 as the image of James Stewart calmly and peacefully gliding in and asking everyone individually to please leave the Temple. It was Jesus' Father's (or Jesus' own) house, at least a symbol of it - being the 2nd Temple.

He was furious with the complete lack of reverence and disdain for God's most holy place upon the earth; also, the kind of people who would work in a "den of thieves" were of the devil.

Jesus was absolutely NOT a wet noodle about it.

He made a whip, for crying out loud.

Can you see a Ghandi-type walking gracefully into the Temple, speaking softly while whipping large beasts of burden out of the building?

It just doesn't work.

Jesus, like His Father, hates sinners, He hates wickedness and He hates LIES; especially those about Him.

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus, like His Father, hates sinners, He hates wickedness and He hates LIES; especially those about Him.

This mixed up statement speaks volumes about how you see God.

 

[GEN2REV]

This mixed up statement speaks volumes about how you see God.

All 100% supported by Scripture.

 

[GEN2REV]

I believe what the Bible says about how a person can be saved.

That's not what it says.

 

[MatthewG]

Choices can lead to our demise.

God is the life giver, and the life taker.

Thankfully we are alive and breathing today.

Job 1:21 and he says, “I came forth naked from the womb of my mother, || And naked I return there. YHWH has given and YHWH has taken; Let the Name of YHWH be blessed.”

Naked came: Gen 3:19; Psa 49:17; Ecc 5:15, Ecc 12:7; 1Ti 6:7

the Lord gave: Job 2:10; Gen 30:2; Ecc 5:19; Lam 3:38; Jas 1:17

taken away: Gen 45:5; 2Sa 16:12; 1Ki 12:15; Psa 39:9; Isa 42:24, Isa 45:7; Amo 3:6; Mat 20:15; Act 4:28

blessed: Job 1:11; 1Sa 3:18; 2Ki 20:19; Psa 34:1, Psa 89:38-52; Isa 24:15; Eph 5:20; 1Th 5:18

 

[quietthinker]

All 100% supported by Scripture.

The Pharisees argued along the same lines!

 

[GEN2REV]

The Pharisees argued along the same lines!

The Pharisees of today preach that God is all love and forgiveness.

Do you want tradition or do you want Truth?

 

[GEN2REV]

Choices can lead to our demise.

God is the life giver, and the life taker.

Thankfully we are alive and breathing today.

Job 1:21 and he says, “I came forth naked from the womb of my mother, || And naked I return there. YHWH has given and YHWH has taken; Let the Name of YHWH be blessed.”

Naked came: Gen 3:19; Psa 49:17; Ecc 5:15, Ecc 12:7; 1Ti 6:7

the Lord gave: Job 2:10; Gen 30:2; Ecc 5:19; Lam 3:38; Jas 1:17

taken away: Gen 45:5; 2Sa 16:12; 1Ki 12:15; Psa 39:9; Isa 42:24, Isa 45:7; Amo 3:6; Mat 20:15; Act 4:28

blessed: Job 1:11; 1Sa 3:18; 2Ki 20:19; Psa 34:1, Psa 89:38-52; Isa 24:15; Eph 5:20; 1Th 5:18

But do you believe there are people destined for destruction?

In other words, do you believe there are people who have no chance whatsoever to be saved?

The Bible is actually not silent on this matter.

 

[BarneyFife]

That's not what it says.

Uh...
You're absolutely right.
The Bible does not say:

"I believe what the Bible says about how a person can be saved."