the 7th Trump

[Spiritual Israelite]

From what I understand of the 'rapture' theory; the destination is heaven.

That is the pre-trib rapture theory (I guess mid-tribs believe that, too). You shouldn't be so ignorant about what others believe. The rapture is simply a term to refer to the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain being caught up to meet the Lord in the air, as Paul writes about in 1 Thess 4:14-17. It does not say we will then be taken to heaven after that, but that is what pre-trib rapture adherents believe.

Scripture never says such a thing will happen, Jesus says it is impossible.

No one will be taken to heaven when He comes. I agree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let's see if scripture tells us who His armies are:

"And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."

"These [ten kings] will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them. For He is Lord of lords and King of kings. And those with Him are the called and elect and faithful ones."

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are spirits of demons, working miracles, which go forth to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that day, the great day of God Almighty.
Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.
And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies, being gathered to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His army.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet doing signs before it, (by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast), and those who had worshiped his image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone."
​

Who is His army?

"Let us be glad and rejoice and we will give glory to Him. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. For the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints."

"And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Rev.19:14-16; Rev.17:14; Rev.16:13-16; Rev.19:19-20; Rev.19:7-8 and Rev.19:14.​

It would be interesting to know how you believe the above takes place before this:

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thess 4

I don't believe that. You must have misunderstood what I said. Revelation 19 does not specifically reference what is described in 1 Thess 4:16-18. Not every passage regarding the second coming of Christ contains all of the same details.

If you read 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 as one narrative then it can easily be seen that Christ will first descend from heaven with the souls of the dead in Christ. Then the bodies of the dead in Christ will be resurrected (and we know they are changed at that time as well per 1 Cor 15:51-52). Then they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. After that, mass destruction will occur on the earth from which unbelievers "will not escape" (1 Thess 5:3) and that is described in Revelation 19:15-21.

 

[Keraz]

Keras I would like to ask you something.

Has the New Covenant come, and if so, who has received it?

I would need to know what your answer is to the above questions before I could consider anything else you have to say about the return of Christ, because the last time the above questions came up, you said that the New Covenant has not yet been given to Christians, any more than it has been given to unbelieving Jews.

Have you changed your mind about the above since you first asserted the above?

The New Covenant has not yet been made with anyone. Jesus will make it with His faithful Christian peoples, when they gather into all of the holy Land. Soon after the entire Middle East is cleared and cleansed. Deut 32:34-43, Jeremiah 10:18, +
Read Jeremiah 31:7-14 and verses 33-34 clearly remain unfulfilled. Also Ezekiel 34:25-31

Isaiah 61:8 mentions the new Covenant, which the Lord will make with the citizens of the new Nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, who will be only Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language. The nation that Jesus said will be given the Kingdom. Matthew 21:43

 

[Keraz]

If you read 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 as one narrative then it can easily be seen that Christ will first descend from heaven with the souls of the dead in Christ. Then the bodies of the dead in Christ will be resurrected (and we know they are changed at that time as well per 1 Cor 15:51-52). Then they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. After that, mass destruction will occur on the earth from which unbelievers "will not escape" (1 Thess 5:3) and that is described in Revelation 19:15-21.

All of this is quite wrong;
1. Jesus only brings the souls of the GT martyrs with Him when He Returns.
2/ All the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment.
3/ Nobody receives immortality when Jesus Returns.
4/ Those who have kept strong in their faith and have proved their trust in the Lord, will be transported to Jerusalem, where Jesus will be.
5/ There will be no more destruction, or God's wrath after the GT, Revelation 15:1
Jesus merely kills the armies of Satan by the Sword of His Word. They are not even burned up, as their corpses become bird food.

Try to read and understand what the Prophets actually say; not what you have been taught or want to happen.

 

[Taken]

Here is what is deeply concerning and is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ = you are accusing the Blood Washed Born Again Body of Christ of deserving condemnation simply because we reject 'pre-trib' rapture theory.

We are not saved by pre-trib rapture theory therefore we do not look for such to save us.

We all find our Salvation at One Place = the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our LORD Jesus Christ.

We all are eagerly looking for His Second Coming = as we should.

"and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

Some people are already DELIVERED from the wrath to come.
By, through, of Conversion IN Christ.
By, through, of Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
These ^ are not APPOINTED to the wrath to come.
These ^ are EXCEPTED by Escaping the wrath to come.
Why? Because Baptism of the Holy Spirit fulfills Gods REQUIREMENT for an Earthly man to be “MADE WHOLE”…
* Forgiven for having been Against the Lord God.
* Body freely given in Death FOR the Lord God.
* Soul Saved (meaning; restored back to good as when it was given a man.)
* Spirit of man Quickened (meaning; mans heart is circumcised by God, a new heart is given, the Spirit of Gods Truth (Jesus) enters the new heart, the Seed of God (Christ) enters the new heart. That Seed births the man a NEW SPIRIT.
(Which is to say, a mans natural spirit in his natural heart is a mans natural TRUTH, born of a natural mans, natural seed)
A man who has received a new Heart, Gods Seed, Gods Truth, thereafter has a Supernatural Spiritual Truth, from, by, through, of the Lord God.)

Other people shall be DELIVERED during the wrath to come.
Primary focus is ON ISRAEL, to become DELIVERED during the wrath to come.

Primary Purpose is to DELIVER ISRAEL, For God to Fulfill His Covenant with His People ISRAEL.
Primary Desire is to Transform Gods People ISRAEL that they be MADE WHOLLY, HOLY, WHOLE, body, soul, spirit, and thereafter Forever with their Lord God Almighty.

The KEY of WHAT applies to WHOM is Determined BY:
“IF and WHEN” a man (any man) “IS or IS NOT” …. MADE WHOLE.

The Premise is based on a BELIEF, that God shall send down from Heaven Tribulations and Wrath upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

Already MADE WHOLE?
Not present to suffer Gods Sending of Tribulations and Wrath upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

Not MADE WHOLE?
Present on Earth shall suffer Tribulations and Wrath Gods sends upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

For HOW LONG shall A man upon the Earth suffer Gods sent tribulations and wrath?
UNTIL that man’s BODY DIES.

** The primary Disagreement IS about questions; of IF, WHEN, WHY, HOW, WHERE a man ALREADY MADE WHOLE is excepted from the BEGINNING and DURATIONS of tribulations and wrath God sends down from Heaven.

My belief is Scripture reveals God absolutely DID provide and offer an ASSURED OPTION to mankind for mankind to be MADE WHOLE, while alive in his bodily flesh.

My belief is Scripture reveals Exactly what becoming MADE WHOLE means.

My belief is Scripture reveals a man MADE WHOLE, by the power of God, is a man Wholly, acceptable to God, and not subject to Gods Anger, Tribulations, Wrath.

My belief is Scripture reveals Gods PLAN of ESCAPE FROM Gods sent Tribulations and Wrath FOR a man who has become MADE WHOLE, BEFORE God sends tribulations and wrath down from Heaven.

My belief is Scripture reveals Gods PLAN OF ESCAPE for those already MADE WHOLE BEFORE God sends Tribulations and wrath down from Heaven ….
IS: BY the Lord Gods Word, Power and Authority, HE RAISES UP off, above The Face of the Earth, ALL men who have become MADE WHOLE BEFORE God sends tribulations and wrath down upon the Earth and its inhabitants.
This ACT of God, is Generally accepted as being called the Rapture.
(Faithful Alive and Dead men Converted IN Christ being raised up from the Earth to Above the Earth, temporarily, and specifically to the Clouds, and thereafter returned to Earth.)

My belief IS:
There WAS Anciently, an Event whereby God Sent down from Heaven, Tribulations and wrath upon the inhabitants On the Earth, and God provided an Escape Plan FOR EIGHT individual persons to not suffer the tribulations and wrath God sent down from Heaven….BY Raising those Eight individual persons UP off and above the Face of the Earth.

I believe Scripture reveals what was SHALL be Again.

I as well believe, Men who BECOME MADE WHOLE during the Tribulation and Wrath Sent down from Heaven….
Shall bodily die on earth, their dead body remain on earth, and AT the appointed time according to Gods Plan….their dead body raised up from dead to Immortal, to the Face of new earth.
This ACT of God, is Generally accepted as being called; The First Resurrection.
(Faithful dead men raised from dead on earth to alive on earth).

I believe scripture reveals this knowledge, and this knowledge is True and was revealed by Gods Word, Jesus, who IS Truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David in NJ]

Some people are already DELIVERED from the wrath to come.
By, through, of Conversion IN Christ.
By, through, of Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
These ^ are not APPOINTED to the wrath to come.
These ^ are EXCEPTED by Escaping the wrath to come.
Why? Because Baptism of the Holy Spirit fulfills Gods REQUIREMENT for an Earthly man to be “MADE WHOLE”…
* Forgiven for having been Against the Lord God.
* Body freely given in Death FOR the Lord God.
* Soul Saved (meaning; restored back to good as when it was given a man.)
* Spirit of man Quickened (meaning; mans heart is circumcised by God, a new heart is given, the Spirit of Gods Truth (Jesus) enters the new heart, the Seed of God (Christ) enters the new heart. That Seed births the man a NEW SPIRIT.
(Which is to say, a mans natural spirit in his natural heart is a mans natural TRUTH, born of a natural mans, natural seed)
A man who has received a new Heart, Gods Seed, Gods Truth, thereafter has a Supernatural Spiritual Truth, from, by, through, of the Lord God.)

Other people shall be DELIVERED during the wrath to come.
Primary focus is ON ISRAEL, to become DELIVERED during the wrath to come.

Primary Purpose is to DELIVER ISRAEL, For God to Fulfill His Covenant with His People ISRAEL.
Primary Desire is to Transform Gods People ISRAEL that they be MADE WHOLLY, HOLY, WHOLE, body, soul, spirit, and thereafter Forever with their Lord God Almighty.

The KEY of WHAT applies to WHOM is Determined BY:
“IF and WHEN” a man (any man) “IS or IS NOT” …. MADE WHOLE.

The Premise is based on a BELIEF, that God shall send down from Heaven Tribulations and Wrath upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

Already MADE WHOLE?
Not present to suffer Gods Sending of Tribulations and Wrath upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

Not MADE WHOLE?
Present on Earth shall suffer Tribulations and Wrath Gods sends upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

For HOW LONG shall A man upon the Earth suffer Gods sent tribulations and wrath?
UNTIL that man’s BODY DIES.

** The primary Disagreement IS about questions; of IF, WHEN, WHY, HOW, WHERE a man ALREADY MADE WHOLE is excepted from the BEGINNING and DURATIONS of tribulations and wrath God sends down from Heaven.

My belief is Scripture reveals God absolutely DID provide and offer an ASSURED OPTION to mankind for mankind to be MADE WHOLE, while alive in his bodily flesh.

My belief is Scripture reveals Exactly what becoming MADE WHOLE means.

My belief is Scripture reveals a man MADE WHOLE, by the power of God, is a man Wholly, acceptable to God, and not subject to Gods Anger, Tribulations, Wrath.

My belief is Scripture reveals Gods PLAN of ESCAPE FROM Gods sent Tribulations and Wrath FOR a man who has become MADE WHOLE, BEFORE God sends tribulations and wrath down from Heaven.

My belief is Scripture reveals Gods PLAN OF ESCAPE for those already MADE WHOLE BEFORE God sends Tribulations and wrath down from Heaven ….
IS: BY the Lord Gods Word, Power and Authority, HE RAISES UP off, above The Face of the Earth, ALL men who have become MADE WHOLE BEFORE God sends tribulations and wrath down upon the Earth and its inhabitants.
This ACT of God, is Generally accepted as being called the Rapture.
(Faithful Alive and Dead men Converted IN Christ being raised up from the Earth to Above the Earth, temporarily, and specifically to the Clouds, and thereafter returned to Earth.)

My belief IS:
There WAS Anciently, an Event whereby God Sent down from Heaven, Tribulations and wrath upon the inhabitants On the Earth, and God provided an Escape Plan FOR EIGHT individual persons to not suffer the tribulations and wrath God sent down from Heaven….BY Raising those Eight individual persons UP off and above the Face of the Earth.

I believe Scripture reveals what was SHALL be Again.

I as well believe, Men who BECOME MADE WHOLE during the Tribulation and Wrath Sent down from Heaven….
Shall bodily die on earth, their dead body remain on earth, and AT the appointed time according to Gods Plan….their dead body raised up from dead to Immortal, to the Face of new earth.
This ACT of God, is Generally accepted as being called; The First Resurrection.
(Faithful dead men raised from dead on earth to alive on earth).

I believe scripture reveals this knowledge, and this knowledge is True and was revealed by Gods Word, Jesus, who IS Truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

The Disciples of Christ were restored to "wholeness" in God thru the propitiation of Christ's Blood/Death on the Cross.

Whereupon, again thru Christ's Resurrection, Christ Returned to the FATHER so that the Promise of the FATHER could come to, first the Disciples and then to all who would believe on His Name thru faith = Book of Acts

This is the admonition of the Lord Jesus Christ to and upon His Elect who have been Born-Again by the Spirit of God:

John 16:33 - I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation.
But take courage; I have overcome the world!

Matthew 24:9 - Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

Acts 14:22 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:1-5 - Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

2 Thessalonians 1:3-5 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

The tribulations that the Body of Christ suffer is not, nor ever is, the wrath of God = we are not appointed to God's wrath.

SEE here = Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer.
Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

SEE here = Revelation 14:12-13
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

Peace and Good Nite

 

[Taken]

The Disciples of Christ were restored to "wholeness" in God thru the propitiation of Christ's Blood/Death on the Cross.

Whereupon, again thru Christ's Resurrection, Christ Returned to the FATHER so that the Promise of the FATHER could come to, first the Disciples and then to all who would believe on His Name thru faith = Book of Acts

This is the admonition of the Lord Jesus Christ to and upon His Elect who have been Born-Again by the Spirit of God:

John 16:33 - I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation.
But take courage; I have overcome the world!

Matthew 24:9 - Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

Acts 14:22 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:1-5 - Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

2 Thessalonians 1:3-5 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

The tribulations that the Body of Christ suffer is not, nor ever is, the wrath of God = we are not appointed to God's wrath.

SEE here = Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer.
Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

SEE here = Revelation 14:12-13
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

Peace and Good Nite

I delineate (as does Scripture) the source of Tribulations.
(Men against Men and God against Men).

Men IN Christ are / will be hated for His Namesake.

Men IN God, IN Jesus, IN Christ do / will suffer Tribulations of Men.

Men Against the Lord God, Men hating / causing Tribulations Against Men IN God, IN Jesus, IN Christ, shall suffer Tribulations AND Wrath sent down from Heaven.
(That is called Gods Vengeance).

Glory to God,
Good night.
Taken

 

[The Light]

So far, no one has been able to post a single passage of scripture that declares a 'pre-trib' rapture.

Absolute total baloney.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The fact you are unable to see does not change the fact of the scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

No. Armageddon happens in Rev 19, at the end of the vials of wrath which pout at the second coming. Arm is over before the Millennium begins.




I assume you refer to the battle of Jerusalem, which happens after the Mill is over. It is a different battle than Arm which is about 66 miles from Jerusalem.



The flat Earth theory is round like a coin and does not have corners.

Jesus returns to Armageddon in fire and final judgement (The End)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus returns to Armageddon in fire and final judgement (The End)

This has been debunked a thousand times.

 

[Keraz]

Absolute total baloney.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The fact you are unable to see does not change the fact of the scripture.

We can't see what isn't there. Nowhere is the words 'rapture or removal', or heaven as a place for humans to live: mentioned.

What we can find in many other Prophesies, is that the Lord will save and protect His faithful people.

But the fundamental error of using Luke 21:36, as a rapture proof, is the previous verse; Luke 21 45, which says the terrible Day of the Lords wrath will come upon everyone who lives on the earth,

 

[David in NJ]

Absolute total baloney.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The fact you are unable to see does not change the fact of the scripture.

Luke 21:36 is not a 'pre-trib' rapture declaration/scripture.

########################################################################################


This is a PERFECT Declaration from our Lord Jesus Christ of Rapture = Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[St. SteVen]

Very informative post. Thank you. Much appreciated.

but as always, how any part of scripture is interpreted, is a choice, and how it's interpreted will depend on which theological or eschatological model the interpretation fits neatly into. Even how the Greek word is interpreted is a choice, as usual.

Yes, as always a theological bias drives interpretation. Same with Bible translation.
Where did our Bible come from? (western/Latin Church bias)

The danger and sickening tragedy lies in the fact that for many Christians, theological and eschatological models become the way to interpret what is written. For most, what is written has ceased being the thing that decides what the theological and eschatological premise should be, a long time ago - the two greatest examples of this being Preterism/Partial Preterism and Pretribulationism.

I have seen forum topics against Premillennialism as well.
(assuming that is the predominant position of posters on this thread?)
Seems that every view has biblical support to one degree or another.

Curious to understand why you see this as a "danger and sickening tragedy". ???
(opening phrase to your quoted post above)

 

[David in NJ]

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the ark.
39 And they did not know until the flood came and took [airo] them all [hapas] away . So also will be the coming of the Son of man.
40 Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken [airo], and the other left.
41 Two shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken [airo], and the other left.

Took who away? Noah and his family? Or those who were being judged?

[Strongs Greek] 142 airo ah'-ee-ro
a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare 5375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up). see HEBREW for 05375

[Strongs Greek] 537 hapas hap'-as from 1 (as a particle of union) and 3956; absolutely all or (singular) every one:--all (things), every (one), whole. see GREEK for 1 see GREEK for 3956

To me the above suggests that the verses are saying that when Noah entered the ark, the flood came and Noah was completely [hapas] lifted up / taken away, and the rest perished,

but as always, how any part of scripture is interpreted, is a choice, and how it's interpreted will depend on which theological or eschatological model the interpretation fits neatly into. Even how the Greek word is interpreted is a choice, as usual.

The danger and sickening tragedy lies in the fact that for many Christians, theological and eschatological models become the way to interpret what is written. For most, what is written has ceased being the thing that decides what the theological and eschatological premise should be, a long time ago - the two greatest examples of this being Preterism/Partial Preterism and Pretribulationism.

It is written:
39 And they did not know until the flood came and took [airo] them all [hapas] away . So also will be the coming of the Son of man.

"they" is "them" and are cannot be separate

Noah knew the flood was coming whereas "they" did not and therefore they were taken away by the Prophesied Judgment.

"they" can only be the world who did not know what God was about to do/Flood, as Noah was preparing for it with the Ark.

Same as: "and to await His Son from heaven/preparing, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."
AND
"While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."
AND
"Do not forsake the gathering of the Brethren, but get together the moreso as you see the Day approaching."
AND
"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."

 

[David in NJ]

Very informative post. Thank you. Much appreciated.

Yes, as always a theological bias drives interpretation. Same with Bible translation.
Where did our Bible come from? (western/Latin Church bias)

I have seen forum topics against Premillennialism as well.
(assuming that is the predominant position of posters on this thread?)
Seems that every view has biblical support to one degree or another.

Curious to understand why you see this as a "danger and sickening tragedy". ???
(opening phrase to your quoted post above)

It is written:
39 And they did not know until the flood came and took [airo] them all [hapas] away . So also will be the coming of the Son of man.

"they" is "them" and are cannot be separate

Noah knew the flood was coming whereas "they" did not and therefore they were taken away by the Prophesied Judgment.

"they" can only be the world who did not know what God was about to do/Flood, as Noah was preparing for it with the Ark.

Same as: "and to await His Son from heaven/preparing, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."
AND
"While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."
AND
"Do not forsake the gathering of the Brethren, but get together the moreso as you see the Day approaching."
AND
"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."

 

[St. SteVen]

It is written:
39 And they did not know until the flood came and took [airo] them all [hapas] away . So also will be the coming of the Son of man.

"they" is "them" and are cannot be separate

Noah knew the flood was coming whereas "they" did not and therefore they were taken away by the Prophesied Judgment.

"they" can only be the world who did not know what God was about to do/Flood, as Noah was preparing for it with the Ark.

Same as: "and to await His Son from heaven/preparing, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."
AND
"While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."
AND
"Do not forsake the gathering of the Brethren, but get together the moreso as you see the Day approaching."
AND
"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."

Thanks.
Question: Did Noah get on the ark to be taken away BEFORE or AFTER judgement came? (tribulation/flood/genocide)
Seems that the same facts also support a Pre-trib position. Right?

 

[David in NJ]

and to await His Son from heaven/preparing, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrathThanks.
Question: Did Noah get on the ark to be taken away BEFORE or AFTER judgement came? (tribulation/flood/genocide)
Seems that the same facts also support a Pre-trib position. Right?

Answer: "and to await His Son from heaven/preparing, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our Deliverer from the coming wrath."

Same as Noah

Have you ever heard the phrase - "Oh, if we could be kids again"

We can - thru the Holy Spirit when we come to Christ and the Scriptures = Matthew 18:1-5

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

What went wrong with christians/christianity???

Answer: 2 Cor 11:3
"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks.
Question: Did Noah get on the ark to be taken away BEFORE or AFTER judgement came? (tribulation/flood/genocide)
Seems that the same facts also support a Pre-trib position. Right?

Genesis chapters 1 thru 6 is a rebuke of pre-trib and God Given Declaration that 'pre-trib' is a lie.

 

[St. SteVen]

Answer: "and to await His Son from heaven/preparing, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our Deliverer from the coming wrath."

Is not the Great Tribulation "the coming wrath"? It sounds horrible.
If those days had not been shorted, no one would have survived?
Actually that is a good support for Premillennialism, I suppose.
"... But for the sake of the elect..."

Mark 13:20 NIV
“If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.

What went wrong with christians/christianity???

Answer: 2 Cor 11:3
"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

Is there no room for differing views on this?
Accusing those with differing views of being deceived by Satan? (sigh)
That seems a bit heavy-handed to me.

 

[St. SteVen]

Genesis chapters 1 thru 6 is a rebuke of pre-trib and God Given Declaration that 'pre-trib' is a lie.

Oh my. Seriously?