Discussion re: Spiritual Gifts etc...

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Frank Lee

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I am not stopping tongues as a prayer language right now. I have been praying in them again about a month. And I am not stopping at this point, because I see growth in my spiritual life since I have. I admit there has been just as much warfare, but usually this means I am on the right track. I understand your points though. I was raised this way in these scriptures and point of view.

Don't stop praying in the spirit. God gave this to you for good. Do not let an Unbeliever (in the gifts of God) rob you of it. He gave me this gift outside of denominational walls. Had I been in a Baptist or other mainline church I would have not been able to receive. My good friend Dr Ron Moseley was a pastor in the missionary baptist church and seeking God with all of his heart. The Lord baptized him in the Holy Spirit and gave also the gift of tongues. Ron founded a Bible school and has done extensive study in Jerusalem and at various sites in Israel. They evicted him from that denomination because he simply believed the Bible.

When you pray in the spirit - tongues - you are doing a building up of your spirit man. That's what brother Jude states categorically.

Jude 1:20 KJVS
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in the Holy Ghost is prayer in tongues. It is
1. A rest
2. A refreshing

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: they would not hear.

3. Yet they would not hear.

Mark 8:21 KJVS
And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?


Here the Lord speaks to the deniers of all His gift. They refuse to hear Him but listen to the denominational twisting of scriptures.

Yes, for assemblies there is tongues and interpretations. Outside of assemblies we pray in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, tongues for the building up.

Brother Paul admonishes not to forbid speaking in tongues. He was not referring to tongues and interpretations but the personal gift of prayer and praise.

Why did Paul make this "forbid not" admonition? Because that spirit of denial had through Satan already been rearing it's ugly head.

Any teaching, instruction of denial of the biblically stated gifts of the Holy Spirit is perversion of the scriptures and is demonic in origin.

Why doesn't the devil want you to pray in the spirit - tongues? It is a powerful weapon for use against him.

After 14 childless years of marriage my wife and I were awaiting a promise God had given us through a prophet that He was sending us a son. During our two year wait he gave us dreams and visions to encourage us as we patiently waited for His promise.

On Tuesday, October 9th, 1979 I was praying in tongues as I did a Bible study. I realized that the Holy Spirit was giving me the interpretation and do wrote it down.

Tongues and interpretation can be for an assembly or for one or two. God does whatever He pleases. He told me in that word that my wife was with child. At the lab they said "it's a nice positive result". After 14 years Jesus had done it. After all kinds of tests we learned that her body killed my sperm on contact. God had healed and opened my wife's womb. That same week we wrote our son's name in a baby book. He was born Wednesday, June 25th,1980. Right at nine months later. Today he is 38 and serving the God that foretold his coming. Amen

Did we hear from God or not? Were the gifts of the spirit in operation or not? Was the tongue and interpretation I received true or not? Our wait was very difficult. Unbelievers would laugh at us or simply roll their eyes. They stopped mocking and scoffing when our beautiful son was born.

Do not let some ignorant denominational person tell you anything about God's gifts. They are unbelievers and are allowing traditions of men and Satan to use them in fighting against God's very word.

Fighting against the unbelief and false teaching of denominations is difficult but necessary. As paul told Timothy we must reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

I was saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit, receiving the gift of tongues, in the fall of 1977. I've been rejoicing in God's wonderful salvation for over 40 years. In the church I have given messages in tongues and had another interpret. I have and yet prophesy in the congregation and to individuals. I have seen the workings of all the gifts of the spirit. These things should be part of the normal Christian life. Amen

Do not allow any of these worshippers of denominational traditions to turn you aside from what you already know is true. God bless you as you continue to seek God's face. It is regrettable that they will not receive what God has provided because of the stumbling blocks of religious denominations, traditions of men and outright fear of the things of God.

Let me encourage you heartily to press into the Lord God so that you may find all that He has for you. Amen
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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I am not stopping tongues as a prayer language right now. I have been praying in them again about a month. And I am not stopping at this point, because I see growth in my spiritual life since I have. I admit there has been just as much warfare, but usually this means I am on the right track.

I don't see how you can attribute your spiritual growth to prayer language if you do not know what it is doing, let alone understand what the tongue is saying. Knowing what I know looking in, you may be wanting that spiritual growth be because of that, when it was a coincidence or caused by other means. Like say my walk under that commitment to make Him Lord of my life; I could attribute the good times to my trying to keep that commitment in trying to make Him Lord in my life but that would be just me looking to tack credits to my keeping my commitment to make Him Lord of my life when I was just looking back on my life to see the good that it did while ignoring the obvious vanity and misery it caused me in my walk with Him.

I mean let's ask you to step back and take a look at what you had just said. You credit spiritual growth to praying in tongues. Now imagine how myself and every non-tongue speaker will feel. Left out. Not as close to God nor in our walk with Him because we do not have tongues for the Holy Spirit to pray in so that we too can have that spiritual growth. There is a separation when you attribute spiritual growth to something not every believer has and so how can it not be seen as vanity in the eyes of non-tongue speakers? It is a poor witness for any tongue speaker to testify of tongues for private use for all the supposed benefits that come by it.

I understand your points though. I was raised this way in these scriptures and point of view.

Well, I don't believe God will slight believers this way. I believe Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV is the correct meaning that is telling the truth about what the Holy Spirit does while indwelling every believer, and that is to make silent intercessions for us while the Son knows the mind of the Spirit for the Father to know everything before we even ask anything in prayer normally. That is a promise to every believer.

And when it lines up with John 16:13 in all Bibles in how the Holy Spirit will not speak but speaks only what He hears, then that means the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues to utter His own intercessions.

When you had been doing that tongue for a while, even if you had stopped, I can understand by habit that you would hear it in your head. I also understand how tongue speakers today believes they can interpret their own tongues when scripture says they cannot because the Holy Spirit divides the gifts severally as He wills among the assembly so that no tongue speaker can say "I have no need of you" as if he can interpret his own tongues.

Joyce Meyers would say this about interpreting tongues; she would get a "feel" for that tongue and interpret that way. That is not how any one should interpret tongues. That pretty much is winging the interpretation. One can get in the habit of using their imaginations of what that tongue is saying when in reality, it is just gibberish.

When sinners have been using that kind of supernatural tongues that has been in the world before Pentecost, God would call them to abstain from all appearances of evil for why His gift of tongues will always be of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

God wants you to pray. It is the will of the Father for YOU to give thanks to known answer to known prayers. It is the snare of the devil to cut you off from doing that, but only Jesus Christ at that throen of grace can help you see that. So pray normally to Him now, please, to help you to see that.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Though I stopped praying in tongues after Teen Challenge for the longest time, they never left my head. I would hear them in my head as I prayed in English at times. And at those times were some of my most meaningful prayers.

I would give credit to prayer in English because you knew what you had prayed for while tongues without interpretation in your head is hardly something any one can nor should claim credit for meaningful prayers.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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I just shake my head. Those that don't believe in the gifts of the spirit should not instruct on what's right. They just don't know. Just makes me sad. Not only do they not receive but prevent others from receiving.

Building up, giving thanks well. So much more.

While every other christian that do not pray in tongues are out in the cold from being built up by supposedly the Holy Spirit? Do you believe God would slight the body of believers like that if tongues for private use actually does all those supposed benefits that you believe that it does? I don't, because that would make God a respecter of persons which He is not.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Don't stop praying in the spirit. God gave this to you for good. Do not let an unbeliever rob you of it.

So because I do not pray in tongues, I am an unbeliever? That term usually associated with the unsaved, brother.

He gave me this gift outside of denominational walls. Had I been in a Baptist or other mainline church I would have not been able to receive. My good friend Dr Ron Moseley was a pastor in the missionary baptist church and seeking God with all of his heart. The Lord baptized him in the Holy Spirit and gave also the gift of tongues. Ron founded a Bible school and has done extensive study in Jerusalem and at various sites in Israel. They evicted him from that denomination because he simply believed the Bible.

When you pray in the spirit - tongues - you are doing a building up of your spirit man. That's what brother Jude states categorically.

Jude 1:20 KJVS
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in the Holy Ghost is prayer in tongues. It is
1. A rest
2. A refreshing

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

3. Yet they would not hear.

Here the Lord speaks to the deniers of His gift. They refuse to hear Him but listen to the denominational twisting of scriptures.

Yes, for assemblies there is tongues and interpretations. Outside of assemblies we pray in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, tongues for the building up.

Brother Paul admonishes not to forbid speaking in tongues. He was not referring to tongues and interpretations but the personal gift of prayer and praise.

Why did Paul make this "forbid not" admonition? Because that spirit of denial had through Satan already been rearing it's ugly head.

Any teaching, instruction of denial of the biblically stated gifts of the Holy Spirit is perversion of the scriptures and is demonic in origin.

Why doesn't the devil want you to pray in the spirit - tongues? It is a powerful weapon for use against him.

After 14 childless years of marriage my wife and I were awaiting a promise God had given us through a prophet that He was sending us a son. During our two year wait he gave us dreams and visions to encourage us as we patiently waited for His promise.

On Tuesday, October 9th, 1979 I was praying in tongues as I did a Bible study. I realized that the Holy Spirit was giving me the interpretation and do wrote it down.

Tongues and interpretation can be for an assembly or for one or two. God does whatever He pleases. He told me in that word that my wife was with child. At the lab they said "it's a nice positive result". After 14 years Jesus had done it. After all kinds of tests we learned that her body killed my sperm on contact. God had healed and opened my wife's womb. That same week we wrote our son's name in a baby book. He was born Wednesday, June 25th,1980. Right at nine months later. Today he is 38 and serving the God that foretold his coming. Amen

Did we hear from God or not? Were the gifts of the spirit in operation or not? Was the tongue and interpretation I received true or not? Our wait was very difficult. Unbelievers would laugh at us or simply roll their eyes. They stopped mocking and scoffing when our beautiful son was born.

Do not let some ignorant denominational person tell you anything about God's gifts. They are unbelievers and are allowing traditions of men and Satan to use them in fighting against God's very word.

Fighting against the unbelief and false teaching of denominations is difficult but necessary. As paul told Timothy we must reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

I was saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit, receiving the gift of tongues, in the fall of 1977. I've been rejoicing in God's wonderful salvation for over 40 years. In the church I have given messages in tongues and had another interpret. I have and yet prophesy in the congregation and to individuals. I have seen the workings of all the gifts of the spirit. These things should be part of the normal Christian life. Amen

Do not allow any of these worshippers of denominational traditions to turn you aside from what you already know is true. God bless you as you continue to seek God's face. It is regrettable that they will not receive what God has provided because of the stumbling blocks of religious denominations, traditions of men and outright fear of the things of God.

Let me encourage you heartily to press into the Lord God so that you may find all that He has for you. Amen

This is called believing every spirit that comes over you apart from salvation by assuming that was the Holy Spirit.

Paul told Timothy to do all those things by the scripture; not by vain and profane babbling. 2 Timothy 2:15-16 Paul also consider that to be the snare of the devil in 2 Timothy 2:24-26 in preventing us from praying normally which is the will of the Father for us to do, & to study in the scripture.

You not only separate yourself from the body of Christ by that tongue for private use, but you made God a respecter of persons within the body of Christ, which He is not. But only the Lord can help you see that so I ask you to go before that throne of grace and pray normally for Jesus to help you see that as He will need to remove the foot of pride in order for you to see that. So you may not see that, so ask Him if there is a foot of pride that is keeping you from Him telling you that praying in tongues cannot be of Him at all when the Father knows everything before we ask anything in normal prayer in Matthew 6:7-8 Discern that, brother.
 

Mayflower

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While every other christian that do not pray in tongues are out in the cold from being built up by supposedly the Holy Spirit? Do you believe God would slight the body of believers like that if tongues for private use actually does all those supposed benefits that you believe that it does? I don't, because that would make God a respecter of persons which He is not.

Ill have to go back and read, because today is Sunday and got to get moving. :) But how I see it is everyone has individual walks of faith. Take teaching as a gift of the Holy Spirit. For some, this helps themselves and others individually grow in their walk with Christ. But what about those who don't teach? They are not slighted benefits of the Holy Spirit, because they have gifts that help them grow spiritually and help others also.

I better get off. :confused: we will be late again. Have a good day.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Your intention is to claim credit for prayers?

You can't prove to others, let alone yourself, when you pray in tongues when you do not know what The Spirit had prayed for in order to claim credit of answers to prayers to praying in tongues.

BUT when you pray normally, you can prove to yourself as well as to others that credit to that kind of prayer when you got an answer to prayer.

I am not referring to the false teaching of "name it, claim it" prayer route when I am referring to being able to give credit to answers to prayers because you can prove especially to yourselves when you had prayed normally for what you had prayed for when you did got an answer to that prayer.

God wants you to pray and by knowing what you had prayed for, you can give the Father known genuine thanks in Jesus's name.
 
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Willie T

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If someone needs healing, and I say, aloud or silently" Squirrels live in trees. and they are healed...… what difference is it if I did not spout a bunch of Thee's and Thou's, repeating, "Lord" or "Father" 15 times during my recitation as many polished and practiced pray-ers do? The only point of a prayer is that God's will is done.

I have often prayed without uttering ANY kind of sound..... not even really speaking out a sentence in my head.... just a desire.
 
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Frank Lee

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By Unbeliever I refer to unbelieving in God's gifts. Denying God's gifts then proposing to be a teacher on their use is wrong.

... But they would not...

This, is the rest and this is the refreshing. God said it and Isaiah wrote it down. Arguments against God's gifts and their use must be with God and not with those that eagerly accept them.
 
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Frank Lee

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Jesusisfaithful said;

I don't see how you can attribute your spiritual growth to prayer language if you do not know what it is doing, let alone understand what the tongue is saying.

The scripture says;

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJVS
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him ; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Jesusisfaithful said;

God wants you to pray and by knowing what you had prayed for, you can give the Father known genuine thanks in Jesus's name.

But the scripture says;

Romans 8:26 KJVS
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

It is the spirit that gives the utterance, we only yield our tongues to the spirit of God. No different than when Jesus said do not consider beforehand what you will speak.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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If someone needs healing, and I say, aloud or silently" Squirrels live in trees. and they are healed...… what difference is it if I did not spout a bunch of Thee's and Thou's, repeating, "Lord" or "Father" 15 times during my recitation as many polished and practiced pray-ers do? The only point of a prayer is that God's will is done.

I have often prayed without uttering ANY kind of sound..... not even really speaking out a sentence in my head.... just a desire.

Because "squirrels live in trees" has nothing to do with spouting a known request for healing for God to answer to to give God thanksgiving for.


So consider if you are praying in tongues and something bad happens, like the guy dies instead of being healed, you can give that credit to praying in tongues as well? Amazing how that doesn't happen.

Think about how Jesus healed. How was He glorified unless it was understood by others that He spoke and He healed them? Same goes for known prayer requests heard and understood by others, let alone YOU so you know you gt an answer to prayer.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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By Unbeliever I refer to unbelieving in God's gifts. Denying God's gifts then proposing to be a teacher on their use is wrong.

... But they would not...

This, is the rest and this is the refreshing. God said it and Isaiah wrote it down. Arguments against God's gifts and their use must be with God and not with those that eagerly accept them.

Refreshing can only happen at salvation. For a continual refreshing to occur is to deny that the refreshing has happened.

When evil comes, brother, remember that Jesus Christ is in you and you can call on Him as He is at that throne of grace also for help to save you and He will kick that evil spirit out out of you, but I hope He impresses upon you to not open yourselves up for a refreshing like that when you have already been born again of the Spirit at your salvation .
 

Helen

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I just shake my head. Those that don't believe in the gifts of the spirit should not instruct on what's right. They just don't know. Just makes me sad. Not only do they not receive but prevent others from receiving.

Building up, giving thanks well. So much more.


THANK YOU!!
I am always happy to hear another voice speak up.
I have said more than enough on this subject...it's someone else's turn.
As you say...it is like the Pharisees ..they don't want the Holy Spirit in their life 'that way' themselves, but they try to hinder those who do.

Woe to them. :(
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Jesusisfaithful said;

I don't see how you can attribute your spiritual growth to prayer language if you do not know what it is doing, let alone understand what the tongue is saying.

The scripture says;

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJVS
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him ; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

You are only proving my point. You do not know what you had prayed for and that is why tongues is to come with interpretation from another as why tongues are not for private use.

Jesusisfaithful said;

God wants you to pray and by knowing what you had prayed for, you can give the Father known genuine thanks in Jesus's name.

But the scripture says;

Romans 8:26 KJVS
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

It is the spirit that gives the utterance,
we only yield our tongues to the spirit of God. No different than when Jesus said do not consider beforehand what you will speak.

If you read that with His discernment, you would find that not even the groanings of the Holy Spirit can be uttered. His intercessions are silent, brother as is His groanings too. Romans 8:26-27 explains Matthew 6:7-8 in how the Father knows everything before we , ourselves, ask anything in prayer.

Romans 8:26-27 is for every believer; modern Bibles errs in implying sounds are being made when the Greek leaves no room for such thing AND whatever modern Bible you use,... go to John 16:13 because that will prove the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions.
 

Frank Lee

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Remember to click your heels, shake off the dust from your feet and go joyfully on the way He has made for you. We can't pitch camp at every naysayers.

God's gifts are for those that actually want them.

Once the Holy Spirit gave me a vivid dream. In it Jesus was walking down a busy street sidewalk. He had a basket filled with all kinds of wonderful gifts. Gifts He, was trying to give to the people. The people were running away with fear on their faces. They were cursing Him and telling Him to leave.

They were fleeing in every direction.

Denominational indoctrination had made spiritual zombies of them.

If they deny God's gifts they will suffer for it. God's gifts are needed, required powerful spiritual weapons in this daily war.
 
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Helen

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Remember to click your heels, shake off the dust from your feet and go joyfully on the way He has made for you. We can't pitch camp at every naysayers.

God's gifts are for those that actually want them.

Once the Holy Spirit gave me a vivid dream. In it Jesus was walking down a busy street sidewalk. He had a basket filled with all kinds of wonderful gifts. Gifts He, was trying to give to the people. The people were running away with fear on their faces. They were cursing Him and telling Him to leave.

They were fleeing in every direction.

Denominational indoctrination had made spiritual zombies of them.

If they deny God's gifts they will suffer for it. God's gifts are needed, required powerful spiritual weapons in this daily war.

Another Amen Frank.

Bless you....always.
 

Frank Lee

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Jesusisfaithful what does Jesus say to YOU about HIS gifts?

What does Jesus say to you? That they are false? Does Jesus say to Jesusisfaithful I have recalled my gifts?

How about telling us what Jesus says to you?
Wait! Not your denomination. Not what you have been taught by other deniers.

What does Jesus say to you about the gifts of the spirit?

You say you are a believer then proceed to tell others why not to believe. Is this not a palpable form of hypocrisy?
 
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