BAPTISM SAVES, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

[BreadOfLife]

What I have heard, and it is my witness, because of yours, is the confirmation of men's dead works in the church.

Nonetheless, I am happy to report, that there are also those who have not followed the ways of the flesh, but have embrace the Spirit: That all truth has come to men, the fulfillment of the promise of Christ and the prophets. Thus, other than the number that the Lord has appointed, I am able to declare that the times are short, that those who have believed should all the more walk in the Spirit, looking up, for the fullness of His redemption draws ever close.

You keep speaking as if you don’t live in the flesh. I suspect it’s because of an abject ignorance and complete misunderstanding of Scripture. Whereas we ALL live IN the flesh - we are not OF the flesh. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t need to eat or sleep - and you would never get sick or die.

God knows this and that is precisely why He gave us the Eucharist – a physical manifestation of His presence. When He walked the earth, Jesus usually used tangible means to cure and heal the sick: Saliva, mud, water, His touch, etc. ALL He had to do was speak and they would be healed – but He chose to use tangible, physical means because we are tangible, physical beings.

He instituted Baptism with WATER, Anointing of the Holy Spirit with OIL, the Eucharist with BREAD & WINE.

YOU are blinded by your refusal to accept this fact because it doesn’t fit YOUR man-made ideas . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

no you just high lite everything in bold because no one listens to the garbage that come out of your mouth for all it does is glorify bol and his religion and serves never to glorify God and the truth.. keep diggin

Uh huh.

Let me know when you're ready to have a grown-up conversation.
You know - the kind where you actually do your homework . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Uh huh.

Let me know when you're ready to have a grown-up conversation.
You know - the kind where you actually do your homework . . .

have a lovely day

 

[farouk]

But in the end Water Baptism does not save a person because it is a work that one does and we know from Eph. 2 and other parts of the Bible that our works cannot save us.

Well, exactly, Sir. In faith we depend directly on the work of Christ at the Cross to save us...(baptism is symbolic of what has occurred already).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who gave us the Bible? It was men of God who wrote what is in the Bible. The RCC did not want the common man to have it and killed those that published it. Yours is a false claim. But that is what the RCC does.

Time for a history lesson . . .

First of all – there was NO official Canon of Scripture for the first 350 years of the Church.

If you believe in false, man-made perversion that is Sola Scriptura – then you must also believe that 350 years of Christians were hopelessly lost and probably went to Hell because there was no “Sole Authority” of Scripture.

- It wasn’t until the Council of Rome in 383 AD where the Canon of Scripture was first declared by the Catholic Church.

- It was again reiterated at the Synod of Hippo in 393 AD.

- It was affirmed yet again at the Council of Carthage in 397 AD.

- In 405, Pope Innocent I reiterated the Canon of sacred books to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse.

- The Canon was officially closed at the Council of Trent in 1546 after the perversions and editing going on during the Protestant Revolt.

Your asinine claim that the Catholic Church didn’t want the “common man” to have it is Historically bankrupt.

First of all – the Church forbade the UNAUTHORIZED publishing of it. Many spurious copies were being passed around that has serious textual and doctrinal flaws and were leading people into heresy.

Secondly – the “common man” was largely illiterate and in NO need of a written Bible. Historians tells us that about 85% of the general public was functionally illiterate until the 19th century.

Thirdly – the “common man” couldn’t afford a Bible. Up until the 15th century, they were HAND-WRITTEN and took YEARS to complete. As such - they were very expensive. This is why Bibles were chained to pulpits during that time – because of theft.

Do yourself a favor and do your HOMEWORK.
There are too many educated Catholics around here . . .

 

[ScottA]

You absolutely have Protestant Fathers. They are the ones whose aberrant teachings you adopted and splintered from – just as THEY splintered from the Church and from each other.

As for your pride in the perpetual splintering of Protestantism – Jesus never willed this. On the contrary – He fervently prayed for the UNITY of His Church – that they remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).

Jesus is NOT divided and neither can His Body be divided. YOURS is a perverse view of what the Body of Christ should be – and NOT the Biblical view.

No, you are not listening - I have no "Protestant Fathers", nor have I "adopted" anything but the word of God, by His direction. The fact that you do not believe it...is your problem.

You say that Jesus did not "will" division in the church, but He foretold it. Which, in spite of what should have been...is indeed the biblical view, just as He said, and just as it is written: The falling away has come, and the man of sin is revealed, and this by the sword of Christ. The division is on those who did not embrace the gift(s) of the Spirit, whom are your own fathers. But now, I have come identifying the error and offering the solution in the Spirit, and you do not receive it.

 

[ScottA]

You keep speaking as if you don’t live in the flesh. I suspect it’s because of an abject ignorance and complete misunderstanding of Scripture. Whereas we ALL live IN the flesh - we are not OF the flesh. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t need to eat or sleep - and you would never get sick or die.

God knows this and that is precisely why He gave us the Eucharist – a physical manifestation of His presence. When He walked the earth, Jesus usually used tangible means to cure and heal the sick: Saliva, mud, water, His touch, etc. ALL He had to do was speak and they would be healed – but He chose to use tangible, physical means because we are tangible, physical beings.

He instituted Baptism with WATER, Anointing of the Holy Spirit with OIL, the Eucharist with BREAD & WINE.

YOU are blinded by your refusal to accept this fact because it doesn’t fit YOUR man-made ideas . . .

The flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, but you are for the flesh.

Life and death have been put before you, and you have and do continue to favor the flesh and the things of this world, and thereby choose death. Greater is the Alter, but you have chosen the things blessed upon it, wherein there is no life.

So be it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you are not listening - I have no "Protestant Fathers", nor have I "adopted" anything but the word of God, by His direction. The fact that you do not believe it...is your problem.

You say that Jesus did not "will" division in the church, but He foretold it. Which, in spite of what should have been...is indeed the biblical view, just as He said, and just as it is written: The falling away has come, and the man of sin is revealed, and this by the sword of Christ. The division is on those who did not embrace the gift(s) of the Spirit, whom are your own fathers. But now, I have come identifying the error and offering the solution in the Spirit, and you do not receive it.

YOU have come??
Methinks you have a rather high opinion of yourself . . .

You have come spewing the same nonsense as the splinters of the splinters of your Protestant Fathers. I realize that in your arrogance, you fancy yourself as some sort of “sage” – but you’re just another of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant opinions.

Your ideas are neither new – nor are they ANY older than the 16th century.
Jesus absolutely warned about false teachers and prophets that would arise among His flock – and that’s precisely what happened 500 years ago.
Unfortunately – the beliefs of their successors mutated into the mess that we have today – which Luther himself spoke wisely of:

“There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar (Eucharist); another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

The flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, but you are for the flesh.

Life and death have been put before you, and you have and do continue to favor the flesh and the things of this world, and thereby choose death. Greater is the Alter, but you have chosen the things blessed upon it, wherein there is no life.

So be it.

And YOU don't seem to be able to comprehend the written word.
I suspect that is the root of your Scriptural confusion.

I took the time to meticulously explain to you that Christians are IN the flesh but not OF the flesh.
Unfortunately, it went in ONE ear and OUT the other - much like the Word of God does with you . . .

 

[ScottA]

YOU have come??
Methinks you have a rather high opinion of yourself . . .

You have come spewing the same nonsense as the splinters of the splinters of your Protestant Fathers. I realize that in your arrogance, you fancy yourself as some sort of “sage” – but you’re just another of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant opinions.

Your ideas are neither new – nor are they ANY older than the 16th century.
Jesus absolutely warned about false teachers and prophets that would arise among His flock – and that’s precisely what happened 500 years ago.
Unfortunately – the beliefs of their successors mutated into the mess that we have today – which Luther himself spoke wisely of:

“There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar (Eucharist); another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.”

And YOU don't seem to be able to comprehend the written word.
I suspect that is the root of your Scriptural confusion.

I took the time to meticulously explain to you that Christians are IN the flesh but not OF the flesh.
Unfortunately, it went in ONE ear and OUT the other - much like the Word of God does with you . . .

We speak what we know, while the learned kill the prophets. John 3:11 So predictable...even the second time around. Luke 11:37-52

As you will, so shall it be.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We speak what we know, while the learned kill the prophets. John 3:11 So predictable...even the second time around. Luke 11:37-52

As you will, so shall it be.

I find it comical how you arrogantly refer to yourself as a "prophet" when you can't even explain yourself on an obscure little online forum . . .

 

[ScottA]

I find it comical how you arrogantly refer to yourself as a "prophet" when you can't even explain yourself on an obscure little online forum . . .

Amusing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Amusing.

Not really - no . . .

 

[epostle]

Who gave us the Bible? It was men of God who wrote what is in the Bible. The RCC did not want the common man to have it and killed those that published it. Yours is a false claim. But that is what the RCC does.

That is called historical revisionism. It's a sugar coated term for BIG FAT LIE. I challenge you to support your hate speech with scholarly documentation. Your false history is the invention of Baptist Secessionists, or Landmark Baptists, and is an embarrassment to Baptist historians. Your hate speech is IDENTICAL to the lies produced by the SDA's, JW's, and other post-enlightenment cults. You make a fool of yourself.

If Christ had intended that men should learn Christianity from the New Testament, what about the hundreds who lived before the first Bible was given to the world by the Catholic Church?

Luther's Protestant Bible came out 1520 and before his Bible the Catholic Bible had been translated into Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, Hungarian and English, there was exactly 104 editions in Latin; 38 editions in German language, 25 editions in Italian language, 18 in French. In all 626 editions of the Bible with 198 in the language of the laity, had been edited before the first Protestant Bible was sent forth into the world.

"The RCC did not want the common man to have it and killed those that published it." is the epitome of funnymentalist ignorance and stupidity.

 

[H. Richard]

That is called historical revisionism. It's a sugar coated term for BIG FAT LIE. I challenge you to support your hate speech with scholarly documentation. Your false history is the invention of Baptist Secessionists, or Landmark Baptists, and is an embarrassment to Baptist historians. Your hate speech is IDENTICAL to the lies produced by the SDA's, JW's, and other post-enlightenment cults. You make a fool of yourself.

If Christ had intended that men should learn Christianity from the New Testament, what about the hundreds who lived before the first Bible was given to the world by the Catholic Church?

Luther's Protestant Bible came out 1520 and before his Bible the Catholic Bible had been translated into Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, Hungarian and English, there was exactly 104 editions in Latin; 38 editions in German language, 25 editions in Italian language, 18 in French. In all 626 editions of the Bible with 198 in the language of the laity, had been edited before the first Protestant Bible was sent forth into the world.

"The RCC did not want the common man to have it and killed those that published it." is the epitome of funnymentalist ignorance and stupidity.

Why do the religious refuse to see that if the writers of the scriptures did not write what they wrote then there would be no Bible. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

The religious, who claim they know God, refuse to see that it was the Holy Spirit, (GOD), who guided those that put the Bible together. If it was just men then the book is just a book of fiction.

 

[ScottA]

I, Scott have said enough for those who have ears to hear what the Spirit says. But in the end love and hate oppose each other. The difference should be obvious here.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I, Scott have said enough for those who have ears to hear what the Spirit says. But in the end love and hate oppose each other. The difference should be obvious here.

The difference IS obvious.

Seeing as how you’ve pretty much accused the Early Church of idolatry – and have been completely unable to address WHY you would adhere to their canon of NT Scripture – I see this as nothing more than you bowing out of a debate because you’re too prideful to concede defeat.

The fact still remains that the belief on the Real Presence was a UNANIMOUSLY-held belief and teaching of the Church since the FIRST century. To condemn it as “idolatry” puts YOU in the precarious position of calling Jesus a LIAR for his “false” guarantee that Satan would NOT prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).

 

[ScottA]

The difference IS obvious.

Seeing as how you’ve pretty much accused the Early Church of idolatry – and have been completely unable to address WHY you would adhere to their canon of NT Scripture – I see this as nothing more than you bowing out of a debate because you’re too prideful to concede defeat.

The fact still remains that the belief on the Real Presence was a UNANIMOUSLY-held belief and teaching of the Church since the FIRST century. To condemn it as “idolatry” puts YOU in the precarious position of calling Jesus a LIAR for his “false” guarantee that Satan would NOT prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).

This is not defeat, nor am I bowing out. This is me determining that you have chosen your way in spite of the full knowledge of the scriptures, that this is the fulfillment of the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin, the consequence of following a man instead of the looking to the spirit of God which was the better choice.

As for the canon, I do not follow their canon, but God's. Just as God allowed Israel to put away their wives under Moses, when it was not His own will, but that of men...which they too did unanimously.

And this is you confirming your own will.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is not defeat, nor am I bowing out. This is me determining that you have chosen your way in spite of the full knowledge of the scriptures, that this is the fulfillment of the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin, the consequence of following a man instead of the looking to the spirit of God which was the better choice.

As for the canon, I do not follow their canon, but God's. Just as God allowed Israel to put away their wives under Moses, when it was not His own will, but that of men...which they too did unanimously.

And this is you confirming your own will.

The only "man" I follow is Christ (1 Tim. 2:5).
That's what YOU and every other person who is ignorant of the Catholic Church will never understand.

As for the Canon of Scripture - I never said it was the Catholic Church's Canon. Of course it's God's.
The Holy Spirit guided His Catholic Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-15) so they she could declare that Canon to the world.

 

[ScottA]

The only "man" I follow is Christ (1 Tim. 2:5).
That's what YOU and every other person who is ignorant of the Catholic Church will never understand.

As for the Canon of Scripture - I never said it was the Catholic Church's Canon. Of course it's God's.
The Holy Spirit guided His Catholic Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-15) so they she could declare that Canon to the world.

Coming out of the closet are you?

Nah, not you, not the guy who's 8,000 posts have been centered on another. Oh, oh, I get it, not "Jesus", but "Christ" (on earth...after Jesus' ascension). That's right, you have made that perfectly clear...that Peter and the popes are "Christ on earth." Which is rather weird thinking, to give Christ's body (the church) a human head (little "h") to focus on short of completely looking upward for redemption. And apparently you all have given that all a name (above every name): "Catholic."

Great P.R.!

But you error. You kid yourself: Jesus, and Paul gave the first critiques of the churches, and many prophesied the folly of the so called canon which also are now scripture.

In addition, adding more to your shame, you now call what Christ and Paul called imperfect perfect...against them and the scriptures. Ouch!

Good luck with that.

What part of "My strength is made perfect in weakness", did you not understand?

What you call infallible and perfect, Christ and Paul called "weakness" - and it's all in your precious canon. You should be sooo proud!