Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

[brakelite]

But the love of Christ constrains us ...


2 Corinthians 5:14-18 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: [15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

God can make that which is crooked straight? Ecclesiastes 1:14-15 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit. [15] That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.

Mark 15:25-28 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. [26] And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. [27] And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. [28] And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

Nothing wrong with the thoughts and scriptures you have offered here. But they apply only to those who accept God's mercy... To the redeemed.. To those who believe the gospel and surrender themselves to the Spirit of God to be sanctified by His Word. God does not compel people to believe our coerce people into changing their characters in order to be in harmony with God's laws. God will do these things if we allow Him... But sadly too many stubbornly refuse to die that they might live.

 

[brakelite]

Yes, but the question becomes one of "To what extent and for how long a time can a Christian continually abide in Him through whom all things can be done? Can the believer enter into a place where they never cease to abide in Him in this life?"

I do contend it is theoretically possible, but it would take a closer walk with God than the apostles Paul or Peter demonstrated in this life. Not that that's impossible either, but we are talking here about dedication to God on a level that exceeds that of the New Testament saints (barring possibly the Apostle John).

With God all things are possible. The question we really need to answer is.. Do we want that? And if we do, are we willing (and right there is the crux of the matter) to pay the price... To die daily.
When Christ comes what state is the bride to be in according to those very apostles you spoke of? Do you want to be a part of that bride? How much?

 

[amadeus]

From my reading of scripture it appears that if the wicked are saved at all, it is from their own miserable existence... In mercy God destroys them.

To me, every man born of woman is dead. Is death wickedness? If a person already dead to God never receives the Lift which Jesus brought, he lose even the hope of Life that he had...

Then again there a some who have encountered God and loved Him first, but then...

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:4-5

 

[mjrhealth]

Rejecting Christ is something very specific. There are literally billions of people who are not Christian but who've not rejected Christ either. Our job is to present Christ in such a way so as they encounter Him. THEN...if they reject Him...that's for condemnation.

But with the sorry excuse for a witness we so often project, is it any wonder that people remain in the dark concerning Christ?

We are to be the light of the world. As such when men reject us, they reject Christ who sent us.

But I don't believe our witness is that pure.

That can only be so, if He sent you....

 

[amadeus]

Welcome to the dung heap!!

So then were we, prior to meeting and accepting Jesus, already in a dung heap, which really is what men commonly name as hell?

"He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them." I Sam 2:8

 

[ReChoired]

I wouldn't say that.

Yet I have said it, because it is true, according to scripture. Universalism is the doctrine of abject wickedness of the fallen carnal heart.

I believe that veil will be removed during the Thousand Year Reign. All men will finally see the truth.

There will be no humanity left alive on earth during the 1,000 years, as the earth will have been devastated with the 7 last plagues, the earth itself will have been broken up by the greatest earthquake, the life in the seas will be destroyed, the forests burned, the cities broken down, mountains leveled to their root or torn and thrown up into the sea, the sky and atmosphere itself will have been burned up, passing away, and the only life left alive down here, will be the devil and his angels in the 'pit' (the abyssos, as it was in Genesis 1, without form and void), the wicked (humanity) consumed by the brightness of Jesus return in glory with all the holy angels, and the saints returned with Jesus unto Heaven for that time (Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24, Psalms 37).

Jeremiah 4:23 - I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Jeremiah 4:24 - I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jeremiah 4:25 - I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jeremiah 4:26 - I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jeremiah 4:27 - For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jeremiah 4:28 - For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Jeremiah 25:15 - For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.

Jeremiah 25:16 - And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.

Jeremiah 25:17 - Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:

Jeremiah 25:18 - To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day;

Jeremiah 25:19 - Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people;

Jeremiah 25:20 - And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod,

Jeremiah 25:21 - Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon,

Jeremiah 25:22 - And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which are beyond the sea,

Jeremiah 25:23 - Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all that are in the utmost corners,

Jeremiah 25:24 - And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert,

Jeremiah 25:25 - And all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes,

Jeremiah 25:26 - And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.

Jeremiah 25:27 - Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.

Jeremiah 25:28 - And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.

Jeremiah 25:29 - For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.

Jeremiah 25:30 - Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.

Jeremiah 25:31 - A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 25:32 - Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

Jeremiah 25:33 - And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

Jeremiah 25:34 - Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.

Jeremiah 25:35 - And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.

Jeremiah 25:36 - A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.

Jeremiah 25:37 - And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.

Jeremiah 25:38 - He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.
​

 

[ReChoired]

I believe that veil will be removed during the Thousand Year Reign. All men will finally see the truth.

There will be no humanity left alive on earth during the 1,000 years, as the earth will have been devastated with the 7 last plagues, the earth itself will have been broken up by the greatest earthquake, the life in the seas will be destroyed, the forests burned, the cities broken down, mountains leveled to their root or torn and thrown up into the sea, the sky and atmosphere itself will have been burned up, passing away, and the only life left alive down here, will be the devil and his angels in the 'pit' (the abyssos, as it was in Genesis 1, without form and void), the wicked (humanity) consumed by the brightness of Jesus return in glory with all the holy angels, and the saints returned with Jesus unto Heaven for that time (Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24, Psalms 37).

Zephaniah 1:2 - I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.

Zephaniah 1:3 - I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.

Zephaniah 1:14 - The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

Zephaniah 1:15 - That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Zephaniah 1:16 - A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

Zephaniah 1:17 - And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

Zephaniah 1:18 - Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Isaiah 2:6 - Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.

Isaiah 2:7 - Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:

Isaiah 2:8 - Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

Isaiah 2:9 - And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

Isaiah 2:10 - Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.

Isaiah 2:11 - The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

Isaiah 2:12KJB - For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

Isaiah 2:13KJB - And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,

Isaiah 2:14KJB - And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,

Isaiah 2:15 - And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,

Isaiah 2:16 - And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.

Isaiah 2:17 - And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

Isaiah 2:18 - And the idols he shall utterly abolish.

Isaiah 2:19 - And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isaiah 2:20 - In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;

Isaiah 2:21 - To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Isaiah 2:22 - Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

Isaiah 11:4 - But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.​

 

[amadeus]

Indeed. Which in the long run it will be easier to be saved than lost. It takes determined effort to resist God's love. Yet Jesus said many take the wide road...

It looks and feels hard to them because either they have tried to walk the way of the lukewarm:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

...Or they have never really entered in... so to their flesh it is not only hard: It is impossible!

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

Jesus speaks of the easy road here:

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

 

[ReChoired]

I believe that veil will be removed during the Thousand Year Reign. All men will finally see the truth.

There will be no humanity left alive on earth during the 1,000 years, as the earth will have been devastated with the 7 last plagues, the earth itself will have been broken up by the greatest earthquake, the life in the seas will be destroyed, the forests burned, the cities broken down, mountains leveled to their root or torn and thrown up into the sea, the sky and atmosphere itself will have been burned up, passing away, and the only life left alive down here, will be the devil and his angels in the 'pit' (the abyssos, as it was in Genesis 1, without form and void), the wicked (humanity) consumed by the brightness of Jesus return in glory with all the holy angels, and the saints returned with Jesus unto Heaven for that time (Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24, Psalms 37).

Isaiah 24:1 - Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

Isaiah 24:2 - And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

Isaiah 24:3 - The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.

Isaiah 24:4 - The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

Isaiah 24:5 - The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Isaiah 24:6 - Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Isaiah 24:17 - Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

Isaiah 24:18 - And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

Isaiah 24:19 - The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 - The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isaiah 24:21 - And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Isaiah 24:22 - And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Isaiah 34:1 - Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

Isaiah 34:2 - For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Isaiah 34:3 - Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Isaiah 34:4 - And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Isaiah 34:5 - For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

Isaiah 34:6 - The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

Isaiah 34:7 - And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

Isaiah 34:8 - For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 34:9 - And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

Isaiah 34:10 - It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah 34:11 - But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.

Isaiah 34:12 - They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing.

Isaiah 34:13 - And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.

Isaiah 34:14 - The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

Isaiah 34:15 - There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.

Isaiah 34:16 - Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Isaiah 34:17 - And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.​

 

[Hidden In Him]

I get it. Another member here on another thread said Christ knew the majority would not choose Him. Value what that member says ...although we all assume we are not in that majority that will not but of the select few. told my husband today if anyone deserves hell it is me. He could testify to it as I can get down right ugly when my emotions rule. I need mercy...no different than anyone else.

I think we all sense that the expectations become greater as we get older in the Lord. He expects more of us just like a human father in the natural expects more of a 15 year old child than of a 5 year old. But we all still need mercy, no matter how far along we have grown in Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

With God all things are possible. The question we really need to answer is.. Do we want that? And if we do, are we willing (and right there is the crux of the matter) to pay the price... To die daily.
When Christ comes what state is the bride to be in according to those very apostles you spoke of? Do you want to be a part of that bride? How much?

Yes well, they'll need to come with me, LoL. I have no intention of being a one-man Bride, if you know what I mean. The reason the church will eventually be spotless is because she will have entered into the Presence of God and be operating under the anointing of the Holy Spirit on a level not yet seen. And the gifts were never meant to be individualistically used. They were intended to be distributed throughout entire bodies of believers, that ALL might partake in the supernatural ministry of God.

I'll let you know when I find a congregation around here that fits that bill, but don't expect word anytime soon, LoL : ) Truth be known, I expect just the opposite unfortunately. I may walk in spiritual loneliness for much of the rest of my life. The time has not yet come for the army of God to be raised up yet, as most are still comfortable to be lying dormant, and sleep away the night : (

 

[Ezra]

We have the grandest display ever of Gods love satisfying His justice in Father forgive them they know not what they do

Then the alleged body of Christ says, “ if they reject our message, off to hell with them, they deserve it?

Yet while He God is being rejected displays mercy.

no on ever said that to me when i was LOST . in fact when i had aruni with the law in court.. the first man at my house was a preacher .when i decided to go to church nobody condemned me. i don't know who you been around

 

[amadeus]

[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What is God’s perfection if not that He loves not only those who love Him, but also those who do not. What does God do any more than man if He only loves those who love Him. God goes beyond...say it is not so??

Our perfection if we have attained to it is of this moment. David says to his son, Solomon:

"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." I Chron 28:9

And look on the first verse of Job:

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

With what he already had and what he had already done, Job was perfect... but he was not at the end of his road yet as we see when we continue reading the Book. Then listen to Jesus:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

As sure as we attain to a perfection in this moment but time remains for us... like Job new and greater tasks will be given to us.

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Matt 13:12

What is taken away from a person who has nothing? The person who remains a steward essentially has nothing. He oversees and hopefully increases that which he holds and works for his Master. So then how does a steward become a son and an heir with Christ... heir will actually own what he possesses?

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Rom 8:16-17

Then comes the question as to when an heir becomes an owner? I would say that when we are truly and always one with Him, then we will have inherited. Is this not that for which Jesus prayed?

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

And how do we come to this oneness in Jesus and the Father?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Eph 4:11-14

 

[brakelite]

Yes well, they'll need to come with me, LoL. I have no intention of being a one-man Bride, if you know what I mean. The reason the church will eventually be spotless is because she will have entered into the Presence of God and be operating under the anointing of the Holy Spirit on a level not yet seen. And the gifts were never meant to be individualistically used. They were intended to be distributed throughout entire bodies of believers, that ALL might partake in the supernatural ministry of God.

I'll let you know when I find a congregation around here that fits that bill, but don't expect word anytime soon, LoL : ) Truth be known, I expect just the opposite unfortunately. I may walk in spiritual loneliness for much of the rest of my life. The time has not yet come for the army of God to be raised up yet, as most are still comfortable to be lying dormant, and sleep away the night : (

I agree with much of the above. No one congregation will ever attain to that... There will always be tares among them. But throughout the world, from many different cultures, from many different denominations, a unity of faith and practice will eventuate. Not the man made occult based ecumenism we witness today, but a movement of yes, unprecedented power... Revelation describes them... Those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus. Revelation 12:17;14:12.

 

[Waiting on him]

no on ever said that to me when i was LOST . in fact when i had aruni with the law in court.. the first man at my house was a preacher .when i decided to go to church nobody condemned me. i don't know who you been around

That’s because you didn’t reject the message.

Think about it

 

[Helen]

“Undoubtedly there is no lesson that the people of God need to learn more than this particular one of the relationship of justice to love, in order to know how to exercise these qualities as God exercises them, and yet with some variations; for He has some rights which we do not possess. We see that God’s Love operated in the very beginning, when He created His Son to be His Logos. His Love was afterwards seen in His creation of the angels and men, in His own image. Then we see that the fall of our race brought into operation Divine Justice; for it was Justice which decreed that man, because of his disobedience, should not live.

I owe you an apology ...sorry...

And thank you very much for bothering to answer...only a couple of you did...even though I asked the question a few times of others.....I really do appreciate your answer.

 

[Berserk]

David Taylor: "Why do some people think that everyone goes to Heaven in the end?"

David. you and I have debated issues on this and on another site. So I want to preface my responses to your thread by saying that recently you have made some excellent points on various topics and, I think, are wise to post this question for at least 3 reasons: (1) Many evangelicals secretly battle doubts about the morality of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment as the hideous fate for all who, for whatever reason, do not accept Christ as their Savior and Lord. (2) The quest for biblical answers at least leads to fresh perspectives on seldom considered texts about the postmortem fate of humanity. (3) Church leaders and Bible scholars sometimes fudge or camouflage their true feelings on this question. I have served as an informal advisor on an evangelical's doctoral thesis on universalism that led to 2 books on the subject. So I am very familiar with how universalists seek biblical justification for their doctrine.

Willie T: "I do have to say that I have found myself doing some thinking on God not willing any to perish. And I have also wondered if, as many people claim, Revelation is showing us the future..... Then why are the trees planted for "The Gentiles/Nations", and the river flowing out of the Holy City for them, when supposedly Christ and His army had long-ago, slaughtered all the unbelievers."

You have excellent moral instincts. Scholarly books have been written on the possibility of universal salvation in Revelation. So my first post detailing a response to the OP will deal with the case for universalism in Revelation. Then I will focus on the case for universalism in Paul and in the teaching of Jesus. So please stay tuned. I'll postpone my response for a day to give you guys time to guess which texts in Revelation are routinely cited as evidence for universalism.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There will be no humanity left alive on earth during the 1,000 years, as the earth will have been devastated with the 7 last plagues, the earth itself will have been broken up by the greatest earthquake, the life in the seas will be destroyed, the forests burned, the cities broken down, mountains leveled to their root or torn and thrown up into the sea, the sky and atmosphere itself will have been burned up, passing away, and the only life left alive down here, will be the devil and his angels in the 'pit' (the abyssos, as it was in Genesis 1, without form and void), the wicked (humanity) consumed by the brightness of Jesus return in glory with all the holy angels, and the saints returned with Jesus unto Heaven for that time (Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24, Psalms 37).

Isaiah 24:1 - Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

Isaiah 24:2 - And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

Isaiah 24:3 - The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.

Isaiah 24:4 - The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

Isaiah 24:5 - The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Isaiah 24:6 - Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Isaiah 24:17 - Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

Isaiah 24:18 - And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

Isaiah 24:19 - The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 - The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isaiah 24:21 - And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Isaiah 24:22 - And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Isaiah 34:1 - Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

Isaiah 34:2 - For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Isaiah 34:3 - Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Isaiah 34:4 - And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Isaiah 34:5 - For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

Isaiah 34:6 - The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

Isaiah 34:7 - And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

Isaiah 34:8 - For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 34:9 - And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

Isaiah 34:10 - It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah 34:11 - But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.

Isaiah 34:12 - They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing.

Isaiah 34:13 - And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.

Isaiah 34:14 - The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

Isaiah 34:15 - There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.

Isaiah 34:16 - Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Isaiah 34:17 - And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.​

Well, that is the bad news. Here is the good news...that was Before Christ, the repairer, the restorer ... All the above passages you gave of the destruction speaks of vanity (futility/emptiness) and what it does, all broken down ...BUT He came to deliver from the bondage of corruption and vanity(futility)..there is fruit of the Spirit of God and restoration and Hope. Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

1 Corinthians 3:9-10 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. [10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

You left out (Isaiah 35:1-10) The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. [2] It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing:...

... Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. [5] Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. [6] Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. [7] And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: ....

 

[Ezra]

That’s because you didn’t reject the message.

you hAVE no idea over 2 years

 

[Waiting on him]

you hAVE no idea over 2 years

Matthew 5:7 KJV
[7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.


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