Was Judas Saved Or Not Saved?

[Enoch111]

Hi Enoch,
I do believe many Christians are running on human emotions. Who does not want to see all saved?

My response was about the traitor Judas Iscariot. The Bible makes it crystal clear that he is damned -- that is the meaning of "Son of Perdition". Just like the Antichrist, who is also the "Son of Perdition". Perdition is damnation: "the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell".

 

[Triumph1300]

Judas is lost, the scripture is clear on that.

But you did not go any further.
Please tell us why you think scripture is clear about that.
(Unless I missed a later post from you....)
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There is no biblical support to say that Judas repented.
But that does not mean he did not repent.

So, who are we to say he's lost or not?
We'r only guessing and should just leave it alone.

Just like Amadeus said: "Who are we to judge that issue"?

We might be surprised who we see and don't see in heaven.

 

[quietthinker]

But you did not go any further.
Please tell us why you think scripture is clear about that.
(Unless I missed a later post from you....)

Hello Triumph, nice to see you around. You are not forgotten with your biking adventures neither is the trauma you experienced with the death of your first wife. Also I would like take this opportunity to wish you the best in your new Marriage.

The scripture foretells the demise of Judas as quoted in Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane (John 17:12), Jesus quoting from Psalm 41:9. Jesus uses the expression 'son of perdition'. In Psalm 41 it is talking of Judas (the context verifying it). The 'son of perdition' is also used for the antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
Both uses represent the same principle, the betrayer of the good.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello Triumph, nice to see you around. You are not forgotten with your biking adventures neither is the trauma you experienced with the death of your first wife. Also I would like take this opportunity to wish you the best in your new Marriage.

The scripture foretells the demise of Judas as quoted in Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane (John 17:12), Jesus quoting from Psalm 41:9. Jesus uses the expression 'son of perdition'. In Psalm 41 it is talking of Judas (the context verifying it). The 'son of perdition' is also used for the antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
Both uses represent the same principle, the betrayer of the good.

This was me also prior to repentance. Paul also underscores this according to scripture.

 

[Waiting on him]

the betrayer of the good.[/QUOTE]

 

[Helen]

Hi Enoch,
I do believe many Christians are running on human emotions. Who does not want to see all saved? Especially our family and friends? As I see it, we have only until our last breath to repent...

You nailed me in one...

Not that I believe that it is emotions... I believe the Father heart.

I cannot believe that God loses 90% of all humanity since Adam!
No way... God started this thing and He intends to win.

God always win...for the majority to be lost..makes Satan the winner...I refuse to believe that!
The Saviour ( God Himself ) did not come, walk, die and rise again ...to let Satan win...

I will believe and claim that until my dying breath...
xx

 

[Helen]

This is from John Fletcher's Checks to Antinomianism concerning Judas. I always thought that he dealt with the issue well.

I hope nobody will charge me with blasphemy, for saying that our Lord called Judas with the same sincerity with which he called his other disciples. Heaven forbid that any Christian should suppose the Lamb of God called Iscariot to get him into the pit of perdition, as the fowler does an unhappy bird which he wants to get into a decoy. Judas readily answered the call, and undoubtedly believed in Christ as well as the rest of the apostles; <Sniped >

Thanks...Good word! Amen

 

[Nancy]

You nailed me in one...

Not that I believe that it is emotions... I believe the Father heart.

I cannot believe that God loses 90% of all humanity since Adam!
No way... God started this thing and He intends to win.

God always win...for the majority to be lost..makes Satan the winner...I refuse to believe that!
The Saviour ( God Himself ) did not come, walk, die and rise again ...to let Satan win...

I will believe and claim that until my dying breath...
xx

Helen!
So good to see you on here, was going to try to contact you tomorrow. You know we are all praying for and thinking of you and your family. So, GOOD to see you on here!!
I know your stance on this Helen, and on hell too...you have made me re-think both of these issues. I've not yet reconciled an everlasting torture in burning flames. How could such a completely loving and merciful God ever take pleasure from that?

I cannot go so far as to say I agree that God will save all people though. I would love to think that but that would be compromising what my own heart believes.
So good to see you here.
xo

 

[MattMooradian]

It must have been difficult to be Judas Iscariot. He was one of Jesus' closest friends. To have to live knowing that you are assigned by God to be the one to betray Jesus must have been a difficult pill to swallow. Did Jesus and Judas discuss this role, it almost seems that Jesus gave Judas the assignment to betray Him. If it wasn't Judas, would it have been Peter? Without Judas fulfilling his prophesized role, we would all have lost Heaven? Or, would we have lost Peter or one of the other disciples? His suicide was not unexpected, given that he betrayed his friend.

 

[Enoch111]

To have to live knowing that you are assigned by God to be the one to betray Jesus must have been a difficult pill to swallow.

That's not exactly how it was. Judas had his own agenda.

 

[Enoch111]

How could such a completely loving and merciful God ever take pleasure from that?

The Bible makes it crystal clear that God HAS NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked (the eternal damnation of the wicked) (Ezek 18:32; 33:11). And that is why He commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). So you are quite mistaken in your assessment.

On the other hand Christ HATES INIQUITY (Heb 1:8,9). So those who choose to be wicked and remain wicked must pay the price for their wickedness. That is divine justice. And wicked Satan and his wicked evil angels were the prime targets for Hell. But all men should repent and be converted.

 

[amadeus]

You nailed me in one...

Not that I believe that it is emotions... I believe the Father heart.

I cannot believe that God loses 90% of all humanity since Adam!
No way... God started this thing and He intends to win.

God always win...for the majority to be lost..makes Satan the winner...I refuse to believe that!
The Saviour ( God Himself ) did not come, walk, die and rise again ...to let Satan win...

I will believe and claim that until my dying breath...
xx

Welcome back Helen! It is good to see you here again! Hopefully things have settled down at home. You're probably about ready for an early snow. Our weather man was talking last night about cold weather in Canada and an early snow in Colorado. We won't get snow, but definitely some cooler weather.

Sorry for the little detour here folks, but I had to say, Hi!

 

[Marymog]

Your thoughts please

If Judas ended up in heaven rather than hell, it would be difficult to see how it would have been better for him not to have been born. (Matt. 26:24).

 

[Helen]

But you did not go any further.
Please tell us why you think scripture is clear about that.
(Unless I missed a later post from you....)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no biblical support to say that Judas repented.
But that does not mean he did not repent.

So, who are we to say he's lost or not?
We'r only guessing and should just leave it alone.

Just like Amadeus said: "Who are we to judge that issue"?

We might be surprised who we see and don't see in heaven.

AMEN! To that Gary!!

It's amazing what man will claim that "he knows"...we know nothing before the time.
In my 30's I was the same...and knew it all, got it all neat and tidy in it little boxes.

Then in my 40's and fifties God took time to unpack all that I was sure that I 'knew'.
In my 60's I knew nothing ...and asked God to start teaching me what He wanted to show me..and not what man 'had told me'...

Now? At almost 80 , I rest in the Father heart of God.. He said "Trust Me"...so I do.
WHATEVER the end may be for all mankind...it will all be okay...because we will then see as He sees and know as He is knows...
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able , to keep that which I have committed unto Him, against That Day."

Blessings...xx

PS.
I think that when Judas saw what he had done (when Satan had entered into him)..and when he ran and thew the 30 bits of silver back at the priests ...that gives us a clue to his change of heart...then in misery , he hangs himself.

I hope to see him...for there, but for the grace of God..go I. ✟

 

[quietthinker]

You nailed me in one...

Not that I believe that it is emotions... I believe the Father heart.

I cannot believe that God loses 90% of all humanity since Adam!
No way... God started this thing and He intends to win.

God always win...for the majority to be lost..makes Satan the winner...I refuse to believe that!
The Saviour ( God Himself ) did not come, walk, die and rise again ...to let Satan win...

I will believe and claim that until my dying breath...
xx

My dear, 'winning' is not contingent on numbers. God will win because his character is true and honourable and humble and just as demonstrated in Jesus.

God delivered the Hebrews out of Egypt with great signs and wonders. It was 600,000 men not including women and children who left Egypt. He nurtured them through their desert wanderings and supplied all their needs.....their clothes and shoes never wore out.... they were given bread from heaven and water from the rock.....in a wilderness inhabited with poisonous snakes and scorpions he protected them.....by day a cloud led them and by night a pillar of fire.....they heard the voice of God amidst darkness and a rumbling mountain on fire with his presence.....One could go on, yet of this great multitude only two made it into the promised land....Joshua and Caleb. Why? because they put their action where their mouth was.

So few of that generation made it.....their bodies fell in the wilderness because of unbelief. Does that mean God lost? No not at all.
One can say many more things about this experience but what is worth noting is that this record of Israel (those who claimed special privilege as God's people) is a mirror for us to learn from.....for all who claim 'special privilege' as God's people.....to quote Jesus, 'Not all who say to me 'Lord Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven.

The view that God will not possibly destroy so many by citing his mercy, is a great deception. It discounts his justice and his long suffering with those who pay lip service to him but by their actions deny him.

A man/woman will reap what they sow.....you can count on it!

 

[quietthinker]

AMEN! To that Gary!!

It's amazing what man will claim that "he knows"...we know nothing before the time.
In my 30's I was the same...and knew it all, got it all neat and tidy in it little boxes.

Then in my 40's and fifties God took time to unpack all that I was sure that I 'knew'.
In my 60's I knew nothing ...and asked God to start teaching me what He wanted to show me..and not what man 'had told me'...

Now? At almost 80 , I rest in the Father heart of God.. He said "Trust Me"...so I do.
WHATEVER the end may be for all mankind...it will all be okay...because we will then see as He sees and know as He is knows...
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able , to keep that which I have committed unto Him, against That Day."

Blessings...xx

PS.
I think that when Judas saw what he had done (when Satan had entered into him)..and when he ran and thew the 30 bits of silver back at the priests ...that gives us a clue to his change of heart...then in misery , he hangs himself.

I hope to see him...for there, but for the grace of God..go I. ✟

I doubt Judas had a change of heart. I think he regretted the outcome of the path he had chosen. I also think it was not a spur of the moment decision. Scripture tells us he was a thief yet Jesus never exposed him. Judas knew well enough that his path was in error. He was privileged to hear and witness what few of Earths inhabitants have witnessed. He was even given the gift of healing and raising the dead and being privy to all the private conversations and chats Jesus had with his mates.

Yes, it was the outcome he regretted not the fact that he had and was continuing to violate the very principles of the privilege given him. Had he truely repented of his great and grave error he would have received forgiveness and as a consequence not suicided.

Peter also denied Jesus at a critical moment in spite of his mouthing off just a few hours previously yet he repented with 'bitter tears'.....his was a genuine repentance which Jesus later called him on at the seaside...'Peter do you love me....do you love me more than these?' Three time Jesus pinned him just as Peter had denied him three times.....and Peter came clean. Judas never did.....he thought he would escape his whole sordid thinking and behaviour by opting out ie, hanging himself.

 

[Nancy]

The Bible makes it crystal clear that God HAS NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked (the eternal damnation of the wicked) (Ezek 18:32; 33:11). And that is why He commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). So you are quite mistaken in your assessment.

On the other hand Christ HATES INIQUITY (Heb 1:8,9). So those who choose to be wicked and remain wicked must pay the price for their wickedness. That is divine justice. And wicked Satan and his wicked evil angels were the prime targets for Hell. But all men should repent and be converted.

Was a questioning thought, not an assessment Enoch. As for the rest, you are preaching to the choir...we all know God hates sin as should we also. And, we all know God wishes that all men come to
repentance. We also know that many will not. It is just difficult to think of people being burned and never consumed...can't think of anything more painful. It's a tough one for me, that's all...does not change His character or His plans.

 

[FollowHim]

Your thoughts please

There is a simple answer to this question.
Peter sinned and was restored, Judas sinned and was not restored.
Peter was warned that he could have fallen away, but Jesus told him he would return.

Peter knew Jesus would give him forgiveness, but Judas though he was confronted with Jesus knowing he would betray him, he showed no desire to either repent, get restored or follow Jesus.

It shocked Judas that Jesus knew and did not hate him, because this for him was impossible.
God bless you

 

[Helen]

I doubt Judas had a change of heart. I think he regretted the outcome of the path he had chosen. I also think it was not a spur of the moment decision. Scripture tells us he was a thief yet Jesus never exposed him. Judas knew well enough that his path was in error. He was privileged to hear and witness what few of Earths inhabitants have witnessed. He was even given the gift of healing and raising the dead and being privy to all the private conversations and chats Jesus had with his mates.

Yes, it was the outcome he regretted not the fact that he had and was continuing to violate the very principles of the privilege given him. Had he truely repented of his great and grave error he would have received forgiveness and as a consequence not suicided.

Peter also denied Jesus at a critical moment in spite of his mouthing off just a few hours previously yet he repented with 'bitter tears'.....his was a genuine repentance which Jesus later called him on at the seaside...'Peter do you love me....do you love me more than these?' Three time Jesus pinned him just as Peter had denied him three times.....and Peter came clean. Judas never did.....he thought he would escape his whole sordid thinking and behaviour by opting out ie, hanging himself.

Good post , thank you..you may be right...but I hope not .

 

[Helen]

Was a questioning thought, not an assessment Enoch. As for the rest, you are preaching to the choir...we all know God hates sin as should we also. And, we all know God wishes that all men come to
repentance. We also know that many will not. It is just difficult to think of people being burned and never consumed...can't think of anything more painful. It's a tough one for me, that's all...does not change His character or His plans.

Well said.

I always remember that the Lake Of Fire was created for the Devil and his angels...not for mankind.

If you do a study on 'ever and ever', 'everlasting', 'forever' 'endless' etc...nothing can convince me that the punishment for the unconverted man goes on forever and ever and is endless...it does not...

@amadeus and myself don't see quite eye to eye perfectly on this..but we agree on the point about it not being 'eternal' burning and punishment. No way!!

I've yet to see anyone prove that from the original wording...that is all mans doing to scare people into accepting Jesus... ( which is usually a very shallow experience, because it isn't for loves sake ,
but for 'a quick cheap escape.'

Them's my thoughts ...and I'm sticking to them.