Only Believers are Resurrected?

GEN2REV said:

@ The Disciple John

If you ever decide to contribute more to the topic of the thread, or - Heaven Forbid - respond to any of my pertinent comments about it, I'll engage you with more conversation.

If you don't agree with it, and aren't interested in any further analysis of the topic, there are many other threads to spend your time in.

Yes, Amillennialism versus Dispensationalism is a thread. You can find it with a search I feel sure.

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Thank you. I didn't get your mention because you separated @ from the user name. You need to connect the two. For example... @usersname.
Enjoy your... thread.

Romans 10:8-9 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:12-13 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. John 3:15-17 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 19:16-26 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

GEN2REV said:

This concept is new to me, but is very significant if it's accurate.

I have spoken to Truth7t7 and respect his opinion to the contrary.

The more I study scripture, the more evidence I find for this possibility. And there is ample evidence.

I will provide as many verses from scripture as I can to make my case. Please consider this with an open mind and look closely at the verses presented; from multiple versions of scripture if necessary.

The truth of this matter would alter some doctrines, but overall doesn't seem to be a threat to Christians or to any matters of salvation. It is very significant, though.

Here we have Jesus' words about this:

"... I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: ..."
John 11:25
"... I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."
John 14:6

Jesus tells us that HE IS the Resurrection. HE IS (spiritual) Life. Therefore, it would appear that those who don't believe in God/Jesus, don't even have the primary ingredient within them to even be capable of being raised to begin with.

"It is the Spirit that quickeneth (gives life); ... the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are Life. ... Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life."
John 6:63
John 6:68

This passage tells us that Jesus' (God's) words are His Spirit. If somebody doesn't take-in, or at least accept and believe, God's Words, the Bible tells us they do not have spiritual life within them.

"... the resurrection of the dead comes ... through a man."
1 Corinthians 15:21

That man is Jesus Christ. If one does not have that man within them, or does not even believe in Him, they do not have His Spirit within them and do not have that resurrection power in their body.

"For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we will certainly also be united with Him in a resurrection like His."
Romans 6:5

If we are not united to Christ, we will not be resurrected.

"That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death.
Philippians 3:10

Do atheists know Christ and the power of His resurrection? Have they suffered as Christians or been made conformable to His death?

We have Jesus telling us that 'only His sheep hear and follow His voice.'
John 10:16
John 10:26-28
Could His shout be what calls those sheep up out of the graves to be raised up on the Last Day, and only His sheep are raised?
1 Thessalonians 4:16
And we see that all those in the graves 'that hear His voice' will be raised.
John 5:28-29
Only those believers would have His quickening Spirit and Words to give them life enough to be resurrected John 6:63, John 6:68 and then judged based on their deeds. Some to everlasting life and some to eternal damnation.

Daniel 12:2 says 'many' shall awake, but not 'all.' It also says some of those will be ashamed. To me, that shame fits believers more than staunch atheists.
It paints the picture of the many who will say 'Lord, Lord' in Matthew 7:22-23.

Matthew 7:24-27 shows His sheep, who are "hearing His voice", not adhering to His Words and the result of their failure to take the actions He prescribes, His Commandments, etc.

1 Corinthians 15:23 only mentions those who believe being raised.

Acts 24:21 says the 'just and the unjust', but that can certainly be among believers only.

John 6:44 says Jesus will raise up only those His Father sends Him, but we know some of those will not obey and serve Him justly.

God bless.

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There's going to be a resurrection of righteous and unrighteous say the scripture at Acts 24:15. I don't think that the unrighteous would be considered believers.
The scriptures don't say a person continues living after death. It was Satan who said there is no death and so was calling God a liar. Death is the opposite of life. The Bible doesn't speak of “soul” as some immortal part of man that continues conscious existence after death. The scriptures disagree with anyone who tries to use Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 as a person continues to exist after death. It's the life force that returns to God not a person and not God's Holy Spirit.

GEN2REV said:

But doesn't that support the concept that only those who have received resurrection life, as spoken of in John 6, would be resurrected? All the rest will not have what it takes to be raised. They would just be annihilated upon death in that case.

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Yes it's true that all that the Father gave to Jesus in eternity past and before the foundation of the world will He resurrect on the last day. However, this is only a principle NOT the end of the story! For John 5:21-29 reads:

21) For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father, he that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

To God Be The Glory

GEN2REV said:
You don't think that Matthew 7:22-23 shows believers being turned away by God - thus judged unrighteous by Him?[/QOUTE\]

No, I don't agree with you that these people were believers. The fact that Jesus says he never knew them and that they were workers of lawlessness is proof of that. The scriptures have always told us there were those in the congregation that would be false prophets and antiChrist's. 1 John 2:18,19 says, "Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."
These people will be saying they follow Jesus Christ but they will not be.
These are people who deny the view of Christ that is presented in Scripture, they by their belief will be denying Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God.
People can say they're following Jesus Christ, that they're believers, that doesn't mean they are. The scriptures show that when it comes to true believers in Jesus Christ some will be put in prison, or put to death and those that do such things to true believers, will think they're doing a service for God. Not all who say they're believers of Jesus Christ and following him are believers no matter how much they say they are.

GEN2REV said:

Jesus tells us that HE IS the Resurrection. HE IS (spiritual) Life. Therefore, it would appear that those who don't believe in God/Jesus, don't even have the primary ingredient within them to even be capable of being raised to begin with..

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People are not raised because they are 'capable'. After the 1000 years the dead are all raised and judged. 'the rest of the dead lived not again till the 1000 years were finished'. They are raised to face the judgment, and that is the second death for the unsaved dead.
So the only question is 'are there any saved people that get raised also at that time'? Well, We have the Rapture, where the dead believers were raised, dead and alive. So what about those dead believers that were never in Christ? Do they get raised also at the Rapture? If not then one would think they need to get raised sometime. Do people get raised when Jesus returns to earth with His saints? If so, then who all is left for the great throne judgment at the end of the 1000 years?
I suppose there are many opinions on all this.

Let's look at what groups of saved there are after all the dead in Christ and those that are alive also are raised up.

There are all the new believers that come to be saved in that last period before He returns to earth.
There are all the believers that live in and through the 1000 years.
Then there is the old testament believers.
Am I forgetting some group? Anyhow, it seems to me that there could be only 2 opportunities for another resurrection for the saved. One is when He returns and the other is at the end of the 1000 years.

GEN2REV said:

Is it too much to ask for a very brief explanation of what these verses are supposed to demonstrate?

All of the verses involve believers. The proposed concept of the OP is that believers are resurrected.

Thank you for your agreement?

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i just replied to the title
i will also not explain because i am just a creature
a creature explaining the actions of the creator? christ is also a creature but i am not him
if i explain it will turn out 1-0 true-false
can be true
can be not

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye. shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh.

13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

just ask him what it meant

BARNEY said:
The scriptures don't say a person continues living after death. It was Satan who said there is no death and so was calling God a liar. Death is the opposite of life. The Bible doesn't speak of “soul” as some immortal part of man that continues conscious existence after death.


GEN2REV said:
But doesn't that support the concept that only those who have received resurrection life, as spoken of in John 6, would be resurrected? All the rest will not have what it takes to be raised. They would just be annihilated upon death in that case.[/QUOTE]

Here's the thing GEN2REV

GEN2REV said:

I appreciate your viewpoints. I don't agree with your opinion of what it means/takes to be a "believer."

It is obviously possible to absolutely 100% believe in Jesus Christ and not at all be right with God.

The demons are 100% certain about who He is, and obviously know beyond any shadow of a doubt that He exists. They live in eternal darkness, unholiness, rebellion and sin and will not be saved.

Just the same, it is possible for Christians to 100% believe in Jesus Christ and NOT follow His ways, and NOT obey His Commandments and NOT teach what He teaches in His Word. The Bible even says these are those Christians who believe in, and teach, doctrines of demons.

So, there ya go. Believers that will be resurrected, but will not be saved.

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I disagree. Anyone who says, they're Christians and are not truly following Jesus are not truly Christian, they are not truly believers.

GEN2REV said:

Thanks Jun.

Are there two resurrections in this HOUR, or just one?

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According to the language set forth in John 5:28 Jesus said, marvel not that is don't be surprised for the hour is coming for the time is coming one event one resurrection for both the "saved" and the "unsaved" will hear His voice and come forth.

I think I know where you are going with this but go ahead and make your comment.

To God Be The Glory

@GEN2REV
Hi. This discussion isn't as simple as your OP suggests. As others have mentioned, there are other issues that need to be harmonized together. We can't settle one issue while others remain in doubt when they're resulting directly affects all other aspects of the discussion. It isn't only about resurrection. There is the matter of morality/ immortality of the soul. There's the matter of what is commonly termed "soul sleep". There is the issue of the millennium... Are there people living in the earth during the millennium, or are they in heaven? Then of course there's the issue of eternal torment/annihilation. All of these need to harmonize. If we get one wrong, that error impacts the other matters under discussion.So it's very difficult in one thread to discuss such a wide ranging topic... That said, I think it a good idea to at least start perhaps with the resurrection. It would seem to be the simplest issue to settle, seeing it was one of the principle hopes of Christians throughout the ages, and still is. Therefore we would assume that what Jesus said about the resurrection would be the cheapest and most easy to understand. Right? Actually no. Because of we have already settled our minds on error regarding there other topics listed above, how can we fully understand the truth about the resurrection?
So I'm going to begin at the beginning. Genesis. It is in Genesis where all doctrines find their roots. If we are wrong in the roots, the fruit is going to be completely awry.
The story of Adam and Eve and their expulsion from the garden informs us off one indisputable fact. There will not be any such thing as an immortal sinner.
KJV Genesis 3:22-24 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Second. Death, from Genesis to Revelation, is the essential and inevitable result of sin. On that account, the entire human race was doomed to die. Without a Savior, there would never, ever, be any resurrection. At all. All would remain dead. Forever. But, God is gracious. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world have men a second chance. That second chance offered them a choice. Who would they have to rule over them? Christ, or Satan? Ultimately they would decide for themselves what resurrection they would be raised in. The resurrection of life, or the resurrection of damnation. The resurrection of life is the receiving of the gift of immortality. Eternal life... But always dependant upon partaking of the Tree of Life... Jesus. Eternal life... Immortality.. Will always be conditional.
The resurrection to damnation isn't a raising to immortality. It is but a temporary resurrection in order to show the wicked God's justice, and their own failed life choices to accept the way God ordained for their salvation. God is just. He will not condemn anytime without revealing every reason and nuance of life that forced Him to make the decisions He has. The judgement had already been made for them... They are guilty as charged. All that remains is for them to accept sentencing. Death. Annihilation. And this second death takes place at the end of the millennium when Satan in a last ditch attempt to take the throne, inspire all those resurrected wicked to attack the New Jerusalem that had previously descended from heaven to the earth. Fire destroys them all. This is the lake of fire and it covers the entire planet. This fire cleanses the planet from sin, sinners, pollution, and prepares the earth for the new creation.
There is more of course, but this should offer a foundation.