"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Increasing obedience SHOWS that you are saved, confirming your calling and election.

And if you are not born again, you will not go to heaven,
So, while it's true that..."present your body as a living sacrifice", is a verse that describes discipleship......it is also a verse that a heretic can use, among others to try to create the false gospel that this presenting is REQUIRED to maintain salvation, as that is the proof of their broken faith.

So, if that line is not crossed, then the person will not believe that works are required as a part of God's Blood Atonement, to keep them saved.
They will not add their works, lifestyle, or obedience to the Cross, as If God didn't offer enough to save them, when He died on the Cross.
Heretics, all of them, cross that line, into LEGALISM, as they do not believe that Jesus on the Cross, is ENOUGH to get them into heaven, and that is why they TEACH ENDLESSLY about "doing something" to try to keep themselves saved.

For example, a heretic will say..>"im holding unto this"......as MY WORK to keep myself saved.

Grailhunter · Sep 24, 2022

Grailhunter said:
Can you find a scripture that says.....God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you.

I am waiting for the first one.
Everyone knows you have to have faith. Duh!
The Question is concerning Baptism.....Can you find a scripture that says.....God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you?

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Ever-increasing obedience is how you know you are saved/born again new creation ready to stand before Christ when he returns.

I knew i was born again, because God told me that if i received His Son, by faith, He would take me as His Son.
I did and He did.

You have a different concept of Salvation, as yours is all about YOU, ...."doing".

Mine is all about "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross" that is MY REDEMPTION, applied to me, when God accepted my Faith, quite a while back, Ferris.

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Grace through faith is the gift of God:8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God"

Yes, and you add nothing to that...... you dont earn it, so you can't Keep it.
God gives it, and completes it... = Your Salvation. Philippians 1:6
And when did that happen? It was completed 2000 yrs ago, on the Cross, and it was applied to us the INSTANT we gave God our faith in Christ.
That is our 2nd "birth day".

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
For now we have the kingdom within us via the Holy Spirit, the down payment, the promise of that which is to come.

If a born again dies today, then they are already there, no waiting required.
Also, this very same KOG, is already in all the born again...
And, the born again Spirit, is already "seated in heavenly places"

Listen.
Where is Christ?
Where is He, Ferris?
He is in the KOG.....and the born again are "IN CHRIST"< and "Christ in you, the hope of Glory"

See all that? ????????????

Its the KOG, Its where the born again exist spiritually, right now.
Thats the "new creation in Christ".

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Striving to make your calling and election sure doesn't MAKE you born again. It SHOWS that you are born again.

"10Therefore, brothers, strive to make your calling and election sure." 2 Peter 1:10

Here is what you are to strive to DO, to make your election sure".

Its the previous verses., and none of them are a WORK or a SELF effort. Its all Spiritual.

""5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins."""

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Faith is how a person is saved.

You are saved by GOD.....through faith.....one time.

Proof? = Born again, having become a "new creation in Christ"

robert derrick · Sep 24, 2022

Behold said:
The gift of God is not faith.
The Gift of God is the Cross of Christ that is the only SALVATION that God offers, that is the "GIFT of Salvation".

The gift of God is the faith of Jesus, which is rejected as His gift, by them that give themselves their own faith alone.

Those who are saved and justified by their own faith alone, are their own gift to themselves as a god unto themselves:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

They are their own god by their own faith alone, and so make for themselves their own salvation accordingly, which has one condition only: that they believe it.

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Saving faith is measured and validated by the work it produces, .

Saving faith is validated by Having the Spirit of God in you, as if you don't you're not born again".

Being born again, Validates that God has accepted your faith ONE TIME, to give you, "the Gift of Salvation" that is to become "a new creation in Christ"

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

Yes, it is forever, as long as you keep believing to the very end. .

God believed you had faith, so, His believing is what matters, as His Believing that you had it, is why He gives the new Birth.

Ferris, ....You are again always trying to hold unto faith, as you believe this keeps you saved.

Faith is not the Savior.
GOD is the Savior.
We are saved ONE TIME, instantly, and eternally, by being redeemed. = born again.
This is the Blood Atonement that is our Salvation..

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Your lip service alone OSAS gospel isn't going to cut it at the final judgment. .

A real Christian knows that The Cross is the "final Judgement" for their sin.
You don't know this, so, that makes your chatter about works and faith, suspect.
God has Judged CHRIST for the sin of the born again. = THE CROSS
If He has not done this for yours, then you will meet Revelation 20:11, as you keep implying.
I never will, as The Cross is my "final Judgement"......exactly as God provided it to "All who call on the name of Jesus".

Let me show you how blind is your theology.
God, told you, through Paul, in 2 Corinthians 5:19 and Romans 4:8, that He is not imputing or charging SIN to anyone who is born again.
And you are here, denying that Truth, claiming that the born again are going to be judged for their sin, in the final judgement.
= Thats Cross denying information you are throwing at real believers.
Its almost Jehovah's Witness level, but i dont have any info from you that you are a JW.

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

robert derrick said:
Since OSAS says the faith of Jesus is not the gift of God,

God also gives Freewill, so that you have the choice to believe.
What isn't true, is that God causes you to believe, by force.....as Hyper Calvinists teach.
They teach that you dont have freewill, so, you are just a Robot programmed to believe, or not.

Hyper Calvinism is demonic

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

robert derrick said:
OSAS is just another whorish fable of Mother Babylon the Great,.

The only people who talk about OSAS, or who believe it exists, are people who do not trust in Christ to keep them saved, or they are not born again at all.
Dont be that one.

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

robert derrick said:
Those who are saved and justified by their own faith alone, are their own gift to themselves as a god unto themselves:

Faith in Christ, is accepted by God, who then "Justifies by faith"

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it was counted unto him as righteousness".
"Abraham is the father of our Faith".

That is "justification by Faith".

God does the redeeming, through the Cross of Christ, BASED ON, us giving Him our Faith.
He accepts our faith to then give us "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness'.

Taken · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
Whether OSAS is true or not is not the point. If a person is not living for Jesus in this life they are not going into the kingdom in the next. Even the original OSAS taught that. Genuine salvation is evidenced by a new life growing up towards the image of Christ. If that isn't happening in you then you probably don't have that new life and are not saved for the matter of OSAS to even matter.

A NEW LIFE BEGINS... WITH an OLD DEATH.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

A NEW LIFE DOES NOT BEGIN...WITHOUT the consent of the OLD life.

A man Desiring AND Consenting TO A NEW LIFE...
Does so, Freely, Willingly, BY Calling on the Lords Name;
* BY Confessing his Heartful remorse for have NOT Believed IN God and IN Christ the Lord Jesus.
* BY Confessing his Heartful Belief IN God and IN Christ the Lord Jesus.
* BY Willingly, Laying down his OLD BODY UNTO DEATH, crucified WITH Christ Jesus.

* NOW, THAT OLD MAN IS DEAD.
* ONCE the OLD MAN IS DEAD;
* NOW, Christ the Lord God CAN DO His Handiworkds, SEW His SEED and QUICKEN THAT MAN.

* ACCOMPLISHED according to Gods ORDER and WAY.

* THAT OLD man IS FOREVER DEAD, and THEREAFTER THE NEW man IS FOREVER WITH THE Lord God Almighty.

That IS OSAS.

Now, for the man WHO heartfully believes, BUT FAILS to become CRUCIFIED with Christ Jesus....He remains IN HIS OLD BODY, HOPING he continues to BELIEVE, to the DAY of his PHYSICAL DEATH.
IF.....he maintains his heartful belief to the day of his Physical Death...
* THEN, on that day, his OLD MAN DIES, and THEN shall Gods handiwork’s and quickening Come upon and in that man.

That IS OSAS.

NO MAN “RECEIVES” Gods QUICKENING of becoming A NEW CREATURE, WITHOUT a DEATH.

Glory to God,
Taken

ScottA · Sep 24, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

Yes, it is forever, as long as you keep believing to the very end. Even the original OSAS teaching taught this. It taught that true believers will believe to the very end, and if a person doesn't then they were never really saved to begin with. But this stupid NEW OSAS teaching says you don't have to be a believer to be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus comes back.

Thanks for being frank--we need that!

However, you have indeed stated the crux of the problem...and the error.

The very definition of salvation in Christ should be understood as including "coming to Him" and "Christ being the End."

Salvation is given to Christ. All who come to Him are not saved, but all who come into Him in complete surrender, He also comes into--which marks the "end" of that old man or self, which is the end that one must endure to. That is the "end" of being "of this world" for anyone who fully comes to that "End", who by name is Jesus--He is the End. All who have experienced this "have passed from death to life" everlasting. This is how Paul defined it:

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Thus, the "ongoing sin" or the "process" that some refer to is not even a factor. For, such as we are, we are in the possession of Christ, who made it clear:

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

That is--not you, not me, not those who believe it or something else, not those who don't--"no one", not even ourselves.

And some of you [sadly] just don't believe Him--and that is on you.

Behold · Sep 24, 2022

ScottA said:
The very definition of salvation in Christ should be understood as including "coming to Him".

"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to/for every one who believes". Romans 10:4

If we take Christ by Faith, God takes us by Promise.
God became one of us, to offer salvation.....= to save all of Us.
""Christ came into the world to save sinners"

The Cross of Christ is the LITERAL Promise of God's Salvation, offered to everyone who will believe in Jesus. John 3:16

Ferris Bueller · Sep 24, 2022

Behold said:
For example, a heretic will say..>"im holding unto this"......as MY WORK to keep myself saved.

Holding onto FAITH, not works.
A life of ever-increasing righteous works show that you are holding onto faith in the blood of Christ.
No changed life of righteous works shows a person does not have faith in the blood of Christ. They are lost. They are not saved, born again new creations in Christ. When Jesus returns they will go to the left at the Judgment, then into the lake of fire.

Taken · Sep 24, 2022

ScottA said:
Thanks for being frank--we need that!

However, you have indeed stated the crux of the problem...and the error.

The very definition of salvation in Christ should be understood as including "coming to Him" and "Christ being the End."

Salvation is given to Christ. All who come to Him are not saved, but all who come into Him in complete surrender, He also comes into--which marks the "end" of that old man or self, which is the end that one must endure to. That is the "end" of being "of this world" for anyone who fully comes to that "End", who by name is Jesus--He is the End. All who have experienced this "have passed from death to life" everlasting. This is how Paul defined it:

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Thus, the "ongoing sin" or the "process" that some refer to is not even a factor. For, such as we are, we are in the possession of Christ, who made it clear:

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

That is--not you, not me, not those who believe it or something else, not those who don't--"no one", not even ourselves.

And some of you [sadly] just don't believe Him--and that is on you.

Correct.......
ONCE the OLD MAN IS DEAD
ONCE the NEW MAN IS BORN

There is no “IF WE” anything to REMAIN a BORN AGAIN MAN!
“WE” GAVE GOD OUR AGREEMENT THAT “HE” Keeps “US”.

THE “IF WE”, applies to A believer, WHO HAS NOT BECOME Converted, WHO HAS NOT, Laid down his LIFE crucified WITH Christ Jesus.

YES......”IF THAT MAN”, continues believing until the DAY “HIS BODY DIES”.......THEN he shall be MADE a new man, by the Power of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Ferris Bueller · Sep 24, 2022

Behold said:
I knew i was born again, because God told me that if i received His Son, by faith, He would take me as His Son.
I did and He did.

If you do not have the evidence of being born again, then you are deceived and you are not born again at all. You are lost.

Ferris Bueller · Sep 24, 2022

Behold said:
You have a different concept of Salvation, as yours is all about YOU, ...."doing".

BELIEVING, not doing.
The doing is the result of BELIEVING.
The doing is how you can tell if you're really BELIEVING.
That's how you know for sure if you are called and elected, just as the absence of 'doing' shows you're not.

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

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