The Lake of Fire

TruthSeeker2012 said:

They are destroyed in the lake of fire and will cease to exist!

Eternal sleep[death] is the wages for those who reject Jesus - John 3:36, Rom 6:23, Psa 37:20,104:35. They will burn, and burn up and be no more in a lake of fire which will eventually burn out - Oba 1:16.

This is what Bible says will happen to the lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)


In no way should these clear words be misunderstood by one who honestly desires to know truth. There is a fire reserved for the wicked, but a fire so hot it will utterly destroy all who are engulfed by it. When the fire has done its work, it will go out. Eternally burning fire is not taught anywhere in the Bible--not even in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The English word eternal[ Greek "aionios"] DOES NOT always mean unending as we know the word in the Bible.

God bless.

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The Hebrew word for fire literally means “the strong devourer” or “the strong
consumer.” Moses uses a play on words to describe God's appearance in the
mount in the form of fire, saying in Deuteronomy 4:24,

24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a
jealous God.

The Israelites thought that God's fire would burn and consume their literal
flesh, and so they refused to obey Moses when he told them to draw near
to God (Exodus 20:18-21). Forty years later, Moses reminded them of that
day where they said in Deuteronomy 5:25,

25 Now then why should we die? For this great fire
will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our
God any longer, then we shall die.

They did not understand the difference between literal fire and the character
of God. They did not see that a literal fire burns the bodily flesh, but the all-
consuming fire of God only destroys “the flesh” that we ought to submit to
Him for destruction anyway. Are they not like so many Christians today,
who still do not know the difference? We think the fire of God is for the
purpose of destroying US, when in fact, its purpose is to destroy our “flesh,”
by way of divine discipline.

Isaiah 26:9 says,

9 At night my soul longs for Thee, indeed, my spirit
within me seeks Thee diligently; for when the earth
experiences Thy judgments, the inhabitants of the
world learn righteousness.

As I have said before, the purpose of God's judgment is to teach the world
righteousness, not to burn them to ashes. The fire motif is to show us that
even as earthly fire burns literal flesh to ashes, so also does the divine fire
burn “the flesh” to ashes. We understand spiritual things by their earthly
counterparts. But we should not confound the two.

This leads us to our next question: how long is the judgment of God? Will God
God judge sinners endlessly with no hope of a Jubilee that would ultimately
bring forgiveness of their debt to sin? If the purpose of the law is really to burn
“the flesh,” then it is designed to correct men and teach them righteousness,
not to destroy them or torture them for eternity.

What God is destroying is the "old man", which is, the "mortal man" that can't
please God. He is evil and God will burn him to ashes, so the "New Man" which
was created in Christ Jesus by the Judgment that He established on the Cross.

As christians... we have to allow God to burn chaff off of us daily. In essence, we
have to get close enough to the fire so we can be preserved until the coming of
the Lord. That's why we should be diligent in our daily lives to read and study the
Word (firey Law), not to be saved, but to stay untainted from the world.

Then, at the end of the final Age of the Ages, when the sinners have been
disciplined and purified by the Divine Fire and have learned righteousness (Isaiah
26:9), when the Great Shepherd has constrained them in Love to cross the bridge
of faith, then they too will be brought into the incorruptible state of God's fullness,
"that God may be all in all" (1 Cor. 15:28).

What a fantastic plan God has for His creation!

Now that's Good News!

Logabe

If God tortured His enemies in a fiery horror chamber throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been in the worst of war attrocities. An eternal hell of torment would be hell for God also! I could never love a god that would torture anyone who was lost forever. How sadistic

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:10. "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ... And never shall thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:18,19. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14. Notice that even Satan will be DESTROYED and not live forever!

God is a loving merciful God, and not a tormenting, revengeful and sadistic God as many people will claim that will burn forever the lost where they will be screaming out in TERROR and PAIN forever without being able to ever put a stop to their pain!

What's the purpose of God's punishment as taught in Bible? Punishment is for CORRECTION and REDIRECTION of behavior, to align with God's law and repent! Yet with a eternal hellfire, there is no objective in it, there is no end to the punishment and no opportunity to change and repent, hence, NO objective to the punishment! I reject the idea of eternal punishment and my God and my Bible doesn't teach it.

And if the wages of sin was eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.

That's why I reject eternal hellfire doctrine because it's NOT taught in original manuscripts and it has no reason or objective to it besides horrific ad sadistic revenge, which God would never do, but something that Satan would!

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump, but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

I biblically prove that there is NO eternal hellfire here:

http://www.biblejesu...l-hellfire.html

God bless.

justaname said:

Then what does this mean?
Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This is in my bible why isn't this text in yours?

God is not sadistic in His righteous judgement against Satan, you ought to rethink your judgements of the Almighty. And why would you suggest we would ever hear them screaming? Do you not know when the new replaces the old, the old will not be remembered?

Does anyone remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16:14-31

When did he get out? Was not this his soul that went to sheol?
Why does Jesus preach to fear the One who can destroy both the body and soul?

I think it best to take all the passages of the Bible into consideration. I do not think it prudent to teach falsely, and decide to take into account everything that is written. If it were that things like these were not in the text, I would be swayed to think differently. Yet as it stands, no one has yet proven to me that what is written in Revelation shouldn't be thought of as a literal outcome for "Satan's gang." I suppose the next question should be, why would you argue against God for deciding this anyways?

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nice post!

justaname said:

Then what does this mean?
Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This is in my bible why isn't this text in yours?

God is not sadistic in His righteous judgement against Satan, you ought to rethink your judgements of the Almighty. And why would you suggest we would ever hear them screaming? Do you not know when the new replaces the old, the old will not be remembered?

Does anyone remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16:14-31

When did he get out? Was not this his soul that went to sheol?
Why does Jesus preach to fear the One who can destroy both the body and soul?

I think it best to take all the passages of the Bible into consideration. I do not think it prudent to teach falsely, and decide to take into account everything that is written. If it were that things like these were not in the text, I would be swayed to think differently. Yet as it stands, no one has yet proven to me that what is written in Revelation shouldn't be thought of as a literal outcome for "Satan's gang." I suppose the next question should be, why would you argue against God for deciding this anyways?

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1. The Koine Greek word "aionios" is used in Revelation 20:10 and Matthew 25:46 and has been translated forever and ever! But in Koine Greek it doesn't mean endless at all! The term "for ever, eternal, everlasting" as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:10. "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ... And never shall thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:18,19. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14. Notice the Devil is DESTROYED!!! The lake of fire will BURN OUT and Satan and the lost will become ashes:

Malachi 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven,And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”Says the Lord of hosts,“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:3[sup] [/sup]You shall trample the wicked,For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,” Says the Lord of hosts.

2. Rich man and Lazarus..Is it figurative or Literal ? Well let's see.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Did you catch that? If not, read those 2 verses again! Jesus always used parables when speaking to the Pharisee's etc. It was only when Jesus spoke with His disciples that he expounded all things.

So that proves and shows that the Rich man and Lazarus was a Parable!

Christ addressed the Pharisees when He recited this account (verse 14). Using one of their own well-known stories about the future (nearly every detail was recorded in Josephus' book, Josephus' Discourses to the Greeks Concerning Hades [pp. 637, 638], which was written shortly after Christ's time), Christ pointed out that in this life only we determine our future destiny. No second probation exists for the human race!

Jesus employed a popular Pharisaical story to teach an important lesson to the Pharisees. But the details of the story so contradict the other teachings of Christ (see Matthew 13:36-40) that no one should accuse Him of supporting the details of the parable itself.

A parable signifies a complete and often imaginary story from which a moral or lesson is to be drawn.

The Random House College Dictionary describes a parable as "a short, allegorical story designed to convey a truth or moral lesson.

Jesus' parables started this way: There was a certain etc...., bit like, once upon a time etc..

The pharisees believed that salvation is based on Abrahamic descent. They believed that all of Abraham's descendants would automatically go to Heaven. Jesus used this parable to turn the tables around and show them that is not the case. A lesson was drawn from it. It's simply a parabolic fable.

Luke 16:19-31 and the OT Isa 14:4-11[Parabolic imagery] is the ONLY place in the whole Bible that makes Hades/Sheol a place of suffering and is the ONLY place in the whole of scriptures portrayed as a place of torment. These being parables, so we can't now sweep all other[and there are many] clear verses aside because of 2 parables.

It's simply hebraized platonism and Christ's last appeals at his end of public ministry.

Rich man and Lazarus is the ONLY passage in the whole of NT of suffering in Hades. And that's because it's only a parable and NOT literal!

"Abrahams Bossom" was a Jewish idiom meaning "Paradise".

IDIOM = individual peculiarity of language - the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community, or class. example "Its raining cats and dogs". if someone tells you this, you take it literal or symbolically?

The nature and destiny of man was a major area of disagreement between Christ and the pharisees. The pharisees rejected Christ's teachings of Life, death and destiny of man. The pharisees were immortal soulists who also believed in eternal agony.

Jesus thus rebuked the Pharisees for their disregard of the Scriptures, foreseeing that even a supernatural event would not change the hearts of those who persistently rejected the teachings of "Moses and the prophets." The miracle of raising the real life Lazarus from the dead soon afterwards confirmed the accuracy of Jesus' conclusion. One did rise from the dead, yet the brothers of the "rich man" did not repent. In fact, the Pharisees even plotted to kill Lazarus after his resurrection. His very life was a reminder to them of their own hypocrisy

So you side with the pharisees over Jesus?

It's as literal as Judges 9:8-15 is, talking trees hehe

Here are the 5 PARABLES in Luke:

1) The Parable of the lost sheep [Luke 15:1-7] Shepards Love
2) The Parable of the lost coin [Luke 15:8-10] The Womans dilligent search
3) The Parable of the lost son [Luke 15:11-32] The Wonderful love of the Father over his wayward son
4) The Parable of the Unjust Steward [Luke 16:1-18] Preparation for the life to come and building friendships for the future.
5) The Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus [Luke 16:19-31] The necessity of being ready for the day of death and the futility of counting on a 2nd probation Lost Opportunity and the eternal fixity of mans destiny when life ends. And that Salvation is NOT based on Abrahamic descent.

Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?
Answer: No! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:
A. Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10,16).
B. People in "hell" can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65:17).
C. The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28,29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to some "hell" at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says.
D. Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11,12).
E. The lost are punished in the lake of fire which will eventually burn out,[Gehenna] at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15).

Religious "conversions" resulting from the lie of hell and a fear of hell as it is depicted in this passage have indeed occurred.

God bless.

Though the figures of Lazarus and the rich man Jesus used may not have been literal people that existed, the place of torment and separation our Lord Jesus was speaking of is real. I've seen that 'Pharisee's own beliefs' for Christ giving that used as an excuse many times to totally discount the place Jesus was talking about there, the abode of the wicked called hell.

Per Revelation 20:14, the abode of 'hell' is to go into the "lake of fire" after Christ's future Milennium reign.

Rev 20:14-15
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

So whadda' ya' know, there truly is... a place called "hell" afterall!

veteran said:

....So whadda' ya' know, there truly is... a place called "hell" afterall!

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That is completely FALSE and untrue!

Not once anywhere in entire Scripture is the word "hell" used. "hell" is not Hebrew or Koine Greek, it's an English word and Jesus never ever used that word.

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump, but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

If anyone wants Bible proof that there is no such thing as a "hell" then read this webpage I wrote:

http://www.biblejesu...l-hellfire.html

Once a truth loving and truth seeking Christian reads that page, they will know there is no such thing as a "hell". That webpage has helped many come to an understanding of the truth.

God bless.

1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)


Rev 20:2-3
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(KJV)


Doesn't matter with all the word games the Jews try to play, that abode of the wicked is Biblically described in other ways to show how it's a real place.

justaname said:

Hades can be interpreted as hell. ...

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That is absolutely incorrect! There is no "hell" in Scripture, that's an invention from Satan and Catholicism and was added into English translations.

Beyond any question, "sheol" or "hades" is a place of death, darkness & silence. 1 Samuel 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Neither the OT or NT "EVER" speaks of "sheol" or "hades" as a realm of life.

Only in the poetical imagery of Isaiah [14:4-11]and the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus are those commited to "sheol" or "hades" said to perform acts of the living. Purely and clearly figurative. The Clear MUST always explain the obscure. Luke 16:19-31 is an illustrative Parable, not a biographical sketch. It is to be understood and treated as a parable, meant to portray and enforce a moral lesson. (NOT literal)

The word "hell" is used 54 times in the Bible, and in only 12 cases does it refer to "a place of burning.", and this always refers to the 2nd death, which hasnt happened yet, it's future, and will burn out.

The word "hell" is translated from several different words with various meanings, as indicated below:

IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
31 times from "Sheol," which means "the grave".

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
10 times from "Hades," which means "the grave".
12 times from "Gehenna," which means "the place of burning."
1 time from "Tartarus," which means "a place of darkness."
54 TIMES TOTAL

The Greek word Gehenna" is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Ge-Hinnom," which means the "Valley of Hinnom." This valley, which lies immediately south and west of Jerusalem, was a place where dead animals, garbage, and other refuse were dumped. Fire burned constantly, as it does at modern sanitation dump sites. The Bible uses "Gehenna" or the "Valley of Hinnom" as a symbol of the fire that will destroy the lost at the end of time. The fire of Gehenna was not unending. Otherwise it would be still burning southwest of Jerusalem today. Neither will the fire of hell be unending.

I have and can prove anytime that in the Bible "eternal and forver and ever' has been used to things that have ENDED and ceased!

This is not to say that the fires of Gehenna will not burn for a period of time. The Greek word for "eternal" and "forever" (aionios) denotes a period of time. If Strongs Concordance on the word "ever" is consulted, you will notice that the Greek word means "an age, a period". Under the word "aionios" in the Analyical Greek Lexicon p.11 we have the following words, "a period, era, age. . . indeterminate as to duration." The latter phrase is critical. "Forever" denotes periods of time which are indeterminate and unspecified as to beginning or end.

The bible also speaks of "unquenchable fire". This is understood in similar terms. Jeremiah predicted that God would kindle a fire in the gates Jerusalem's palaces that would "not be quenched". See Jer 17 :27. This prediction was fulfilled by Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzor when he burnt the palaces of Jerusalem. See Jer 52:12-13. The fires although unquenchable are not still burning today. The results are irreversible, not the process.

So when the bible speaks of "eternal fire" it must be understood in the context of all it says on the subject. The fires of Sodom and Jerusalem burnt and it says "eternally" (that is a period), and the period in which it burnt brought about results that were complete in their purpose. Hence the fires of Gehenna will burn for a time and ultimately produce "destruction",that is annihilation. See Matt 10:28 where Jesus says that both soul and body will be destroyed (annihilated, Greek apolummi) in Gehenna! The fires will burn until Satan and his followers will be brought to ashes and be no more.

God bless.

veteran said:

1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)


Rev 20:2-3
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(KJV)


Doesn't matter with all the word games the Jews try to play, that abode of the wicked is Biblically described in other ways to show how it's a real place.

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In reference to 1 Peter 3:18-20, first of all, notice how Christ preached to those spirits in prison. He did it by the Spirit, and that word is capitalized in your Bible. It actually refers to the Holy Spirit. So whatever Christ did in preaching during this period of time, He did it through or by the Holy Spirit.

With that in view, let's ask this: When was the preaching done? The answer is plainly given in verse 20, "When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing." So the preaching was actually done while the ark was being built-- during the preaching of Noah to that antediluvian world.

Now, one more question: To whom was the preaching done? The text says here "to the spirits in prison." Throughout the Bible we find this terminology used in describing those who are bound in the prison house of sin. David prayed "Bring my soul out of prison." Psalm 142:7. Paul spoke of his experience in these words, "bringing me into captivity to the law of sin." Romans 7:23.

What Peter is telling us here is simply that Christ through the Holy Spirit was present while Noah preached; Christ was there through the Holy Spirit to speak conviction to their hearts and appeal to them to come into the ark. There is absolutely nothing here which indicates that Jesus departed from the body during the time He was dead to go to any subterranean place to minister to wicked spirits. The three questions are clearly answered in the text itself, that He preached by the Holy Spirit, He did it while the ark was preparing, and He did it to the spirits in prison or to those individuals whose sinful lives were bound in the prison house of sin.

Besides, the Scripture is clear. Read Luke 23:46.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Where was the Heavenly Father? In Heaven of course, and not in some "hell".

Unless you claim Luke 23:46 is a false verse and/or you claim Father God was living in "hell" too? Surely you don't believe such a thing, do you?

The Spirit preached through Noah just as the Holy Spirit has preached to every generation to whom God sent his human messengers. And it is Christ through the Spirit who done this. Noah was a 'preacher of righteousness"(2Peter 2:5) Christ's humanity truly died and Jesus slept in the grave in the death of sleep!

And Rev 20:2-3 says NOTHING about an eternal torture! I am sorry to tell you this but you have been taught error.

God bless.

justaname said:

I suppose that depends on what your idea of hell is. You still have said nothing of the Mark 3:29 passage.

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Hell is not an Biblical idea, it's not even Biblical full stop. It never appears in the Hebrew or Koine Greek whatsoever and eternal condemnation or eternal torture is completely foreign to the original languages. Jesus never ever spoke of eternal torture, He spoke about Gehenna which was a literal fire that would eventually burn the criminals to DUST and go out. That's what will happen in the end, the lost will be burned to ashes in a fire that will appear as a lake.

As for Mark 3:29, the Koine Greek word word "aionios" appears there, which itself is the adjective form of "aion." I have already discussed the true meaning of the word aion as "age" and aionios as that which is "pertaining to aions (or ages)."

The literal translation from the Greek text reads: "Whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the aion, but is liable to the aionios penalty for the sin" (Mk.3:29).

The same word has been used in many places to things and events that have already ended!!!

The lost cannot live forever and cannot have eternal life in a fire, because to live forever they need access to the Tree of Life, but no Tree of life will in a fire, and the lost do not receive immortality which the saved do, hence, the lost will perish and be no more!

The Bible is Clear - the lost will be obliterated. This is what Bible says will happen to the lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

There are about 182 clear verses for the destruction of the lost! Because man is mortal and because eternal life is given only to the redeemed, the unsaved forfeit their lives altogether!

In no way should these clear words be misunderstood by one who honestly desires to know truth. There is a fire reserved for the wicked, but a fire so hot it will utterly destroy all who are engulfed by it. When the fire has done its work, it will go out. Eternally burning fire is not taught anywhere in the Bible--not even in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The English word eternal[ Greek "aionios"] DOES NOT always mean unending as I have shown!

God bless.

TruthSeeker2012 said:

In reference to 1 Peter 3:18-20, first of all, notice how Christ preached to those spirits in prison. He did it by the Spirit, and that word is capitalized in your Bible. It actually refers to the Holy Spirit. So whatever Christ did in preaching during this period of time, He did it through or by the Holy Spirit.

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Malarchy! Got to take the Scripture in context as a whole...

1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)

Christ went... and preached to those in the pit prison which were souls of those who had died back in the days of Noah.


Rev 20:7
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(KJV)

The heavenly abode of the wicked is also referred to as a 'prison'. As there are prisons here on earth for the wicked, so likewise in the heavenly. So the arguments of what the word pit, grave, haides, or hell, means is all for nought, since all those terms can, and are used for that heavenly abode of the wicked.

veteran said:

Malarchy! Got to take the Scripture in context as a whole...

1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)

Christ went... and preached to those in the pit prison which were souls of those who had died back in the days of Noah.


Rev 20:7
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(KJV)

The heavenly abode of the wicked is also referred to as a 'prison'. As there are prisons here on earth for the wicked, so likewise in the heavenly. So the arguments of what the word pit, grave, haides, or hell, means is all for nought, since all those terms can, and are used for that heavenly abode of the wicked.

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Wrong! Your whole post is biblically unsound and invalid! You have tampered and added things to God's Word to make your belief align with Bible, rather than aligning your belief with Bible. Big big big mistake and has led you straight into eisegesis where you are seeing things in Bible which are not there. It's a type of childhood brainwashing that you have carried into your adult life.

Eternal agony in some hellfire is an invention of the devil and is NOT taught in the Bible in the original manuscripts! Please believe this wonderful truth as it will enable you to love God more. The wicked will perish and BE no MORE! psa 37:20, 104:35. In the original languages eternal fire is a foreign thought.

And I better explain the 1000 years to you seeing you have not understood it properly. So let me explain this to you so you will understand:

THE EVENTS OCCURRING AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 1,000 YEARS:

Devastating earthquake and hailstorm (Revelation 16:18-21; Revelation 6:14-17).
Second coming of Jesus for His saints (Matthew 24:30, 31).
Righteous dead raised to life (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
Righteous living "translated" and given immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-55).
Righteous given bodies like Jesus (1 John 3:2; Philippians 3:21).
All righteous caught up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
Living lost slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth (Isaiah 11:4).
Lost in graves remain dead until the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5).
Jesus takes righteous to heaven (John 13:33, 36; 14:1-3).
Satan bound (Revelation 20:1-3).

THE EVENTS AND CONDITIONS DURING THE 1,000 YEARS:

Earth in battered condition from huge hailstones and devastating earthquake. Earth torn up, desolate, and dark. (Revelation 16:18-21; 6:14-17).
Earth in total blackout/bottomless pit. All wicked are dead on earth. (Jeremiah 4:23, 28).
Satan forced to stay on the earth/bound. (Revelation 20:1-3).
Righteous in heaven participating in the judgment (Revelation 20:4).
Wicked are all dead (Jeremiah 4:25; Isaiah 11:4).

AFTER 1000 YEARS

The new Jerusalem will settle where the mount of Olives now stands. The mountain will be flattened to make a great plain, upon which the city will come to rest. All of the righteous people of all ages (Zechariah 14:5), the angels of heaven (Matthew 25:31), plus God the Father (Revelation 21:2, 3) and God the Son (Matthew 25:31) will return to earth with the holy city for Jesus' special third coming. The second coming will be for His saints; the third will be with His saints.

At the close of the 1,000 years (when Jesus comes the third time) the wicked will be raised. Satan, loosed from his bonds, will then have an earth full of people (all the nations of the world) to deceive once more.

THE EVENTS AT THE CLOSE OF THE 1,000 YEARS:

Third coming of Jesus with His saints (Zechariah 14:5).
Holy city settles on mount of Olives, which becomes a great plain (Zechariah 14:4, 10).
The Father, angels, and all of the righteous come with Jesus (Revelation 21:1-3; Matthew 25:31; Zechariah 14:5).
Wicked dead raised; Satan loosed (Revelation 20:5, 7).
Satan deceives entire world (Revelation 20:8).
Wicked surround the holy city (Revelation 20:9).
Wicked destroyed by fire (Revelation 20:9).
New heavens and earth created (Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1).
God's people enjoy eternity with Christ on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

So as you can now clearly see, and so can any sincere truth seeker, the lake of fire will be here on Earth when Jesus calls fire to come down from the sky, and it will burn up the lost and then the fire will go out and Jesus will recreate the Earth to it's original glory! So it's impossible for the lake of fire to burn forever as you so wrongly claim.

I am sorry to be the one to tell you this but you have been brainwashed with an erroneous doctrine as a youngster and it's time for you to humbly admit that and come to the truth.

God bless.,

TruthSeeker2012 said:

Wrong! Your whole post is biblically unsound and invalid! You have tampered and added things to God's Word to make your belief align with Bible, rather than aligning your belief with Bible. Big big big mistake and has led you straight into eisegesis where you are seeing things in Bible which are not there. It's a type of childhood brainwashing that you have carried into your adult life.

Eternal agony in some hellfire is an invention of the devil and is NOT taught in the Bible in the original manuscripts! Please believe this wonderful truth as it will enable you to love God more. The wicked will perish and BE no MORE! psa 37:20, 104:35. In the original languages eternal fire is a foreign thought.

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I never said anything about some eternal agony in hellfire.

The abode of the wicked, called "hell" in the KJV, is to go into... the "lake of fire" per Rev.20:14.

Thus the idea of "hell" there is not the same thing as the "lake of fire". When the abode of hell, death, and the wicked go into that "lake of fire", they are gone! forever! like the Psalms teach.


The heavenly abode of the wicked, called "hell" (haides) in the KJV Bible, is coming... here!


Rev 6:7-8
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
(KJV)

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
(KJV)


So just where... is that "Hell" going to be when that one named "Death" there brings it with him???


Our Lord Jesus showed us that too!!!



Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(KJV)


Matt 22:11-14
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
(KJV)

Matt 25:28-33
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
(KJV)

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

History is filled with false teachers who have taught deceptive and erroneous doctrines!

There will be many Bible Scholars, Theologians, Pastors that will be lost. They knew their Bible rather well, yet they were completely wrong on many doctrines.

I know it sounds shocking... that many Bible Scholars, Theologians, Pastors will not even be in heaven, but that's the reality of things. Many people only see in Bible WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE, and reject the truths that are taught! It's called eisegesis.

Scholars are beginning to wake up to themselves, and realising that hell is not in Bible.The original "Authorized Version" of the King James Bible contained the word "Hell" 54 times from Genesis to Revelation. The New King James Bible contained the word "Hell" only 32 times and the American Standard and New American Standard (both revisions of the KJV) only 13 times. And the NIV OT doesn't contain the word hell even once!

And there are literally scores of Bible translations which do NOT contain the word "Hell" even ONCE! That's because they were written by Scholars who LOVE the truth and have EMBRACED the truth!

Jesus' Teaching on Hell by Samuel Dawson...most of what we believe about hell comes from Catholicism and ignorance of the Old Testament, not from the Bible. This study will cause you to re-examine current teaching on hell and urge you to further study on what happens to the wicked after death.

The word "Hell" is disappearing from the pages of English Bible translations and HAS already completely disappeared from many of them.

God bless.

Rev 16:12-16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
(KJV)


Some people not only have a problem with believing God's Word as written, they also have a problem with reading it.

The Devil and his are coming here... on earth, which is what the coming "great tribulation" is about. The Rev.12:7-17 Scripture is specifically about that future event that will happen on the 6th Vial, 6th Trumpet. That Rev.12:7-17 section of Scripture is not about Satan's casting down of old, for even the Book of Job reveals Satan and his angels presenting themselves in Heaven before God's Throne.

But at Rev.12:7 when Michael and his angels boots him out, as written there, their place is no more found in Heaven. And that means in the heavenly realm. The ONLY OTHER realm of existence for them to go is... this earthly realm.


The Archangel Michael who is to do that casting out was first written about through Daniel...

Dan 12:1
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
(KJV)

Matt 24:21
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(KJV)


Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

That's about that same event of Daniel 12:1 when Michael will "stand up" (make a stand per the Hebrew), and cast Satan and his angels to here on earth, and it will cause a time of trouble this world has never ever seen before, and never will see again.


10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

When Satan and his are finally cast down to this earth, they will no longer be able to appear before God's Throne in Heaven to accuse us, like he did per Job 1 & 2. Truly then, those in Heaven will rejoice that he is gone from that realm.


11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

That is given in relation to that event of Satan and his being cast down to this earth in the last days. Those who remain faithful to Christ Jesus will overcome him by The Blood of Jesus Christ, even when they are subjected to death by the devil and his servants on earth.


12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
(KJV)

There it is, those in Heaven will rejoice when Satan and his angels are cast to the earthly realm in the last days. But WOE... to those on earth it says! because Satan is come down... unto us on earth, and knows he has but a short time. That short time is the "great tribulation" time.

Hi Veteran, I asked this question to Rach in another thread, but I wanted to ask you the same questions as it's valid for this thread also. So can you please address these verses and explain what they mean and contextualize them for me please:

This is what Bible says will happen to the lost, suffer "death" (Romans 6:23) , suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalm 37:20), will "burn" up [Not a root or a branch will be left to them.] (Malachi 4:1), Malachi 4:3 "Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.", "shall be destroyed together" (Psalm 37:38), the wicked shall not be (Psa 37:10), will "consume away" (Psalm 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalm 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalm 62:3), God will "destroy" them (Psalm 145:20), "fire will devour them." (Psalm 21:9) They shall be as though they had not been.(Oba 1 16), they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish (Isa 41:11), the wicked be no more (Psa 104:35), the wicked no more (Pro 10:25)

How do you explain those verses?

And please address Hebrews 2:14 as well which talks about Satan being destroyed, can you please explain that verse also and contextualize it for me.

There are about 182 clear verses for the destruction of the lost which we can address one by one after you address the ones above please.

I look forward to your reply veteran, thank you.

God bless.

HEALTH WARNING....If you value your sanity, do not debate truth seeker(sic). He is always right and you are always wrong and if you dispute that you will be called a false teacher or made to feel a second rate christian if one at all.

marksman said:

HEALTH WARNING....If you value your sanity, do not debate truth seeker(sic). He is always right and you are always wrong and if you dispute that you will be called a false teacher or made to feel a second rate christian if one at all.

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If members find it hard to deal with anyone like TS all they need to do is put them on their ignore list and simply stop responding to them, and because they are here to incite and cause strife, once they realize that no one is responding they will leave.