How Evil Are Humans?

Taken said:

I said nothing about gather any fruit.
Scripture reveals Adam had opportunity AFTER having been discovered he ate from the tree of good and evil and BEFORE he was Sent out of the Garden to ALSO eat from the tree of life. And I gave you the Scriptural references of verification.
I trust to believe Scripture, rather than you.

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Taken said:

I said nothing about gather any fruit.
Scripture reveals Adam had opportunity AFTER having been discovered he ate from the tree of good and evil and BEFORE he was Sent out of the Garden to ALSO eat from the tree of life. And I gave you the Scriptural references of verification.
I trust to believe Scripture, rather than you.

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Ritajanice said:

Produce the scripture?

I’m not interested in you.

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CadyandZoe said:

Why do you say that they didn't know right from wrong? I see no passage to indicate this.

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Marty fox said:

Fulness of gentiles I agree mostly with you but still your approach at times is wrong.

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quietthinker said:

Love is not a solely cognitive arrangement F2F, it is an emotional investment also.
God loves beyond anything you and I understand. It is of a nature that never gives up. It is of a nature that dies for enemies ie, those who care nothing for God. A refresher of 1 Corinthians 13 is helpful.
Love is also vulnerable. What do you think, is that cognitive of emotional?

Knowing Jesus is a visceral experience. It engages both the cognitive and the emotional

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face2face said:

Predictable quiet.

You should study Paul's letter to the Galatians, you will find God is rather selective in whom He loves and saves. The criteria may not be to your liking and that's okay, if you want to trust in the god of your own making. We both no where that will lead you.

God selects His own - Ephesians 1:4

What was the basis of His Selection quiet?
Why can it not be all people?
If He is taking a select people out of the earth (for His name) what makes them precious in His sight?
Explain how His Covenant determines if someone is "in" His Love, or without it?

Have a go!

F2F

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Gabriel _Arch said:

They didn't yet eat of the tree that would imbue them with that knowledge.

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Timtofly said:

How did they know not to touch it? God never said anything about touching it. Was it right or wrong to touch it?

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Timtofly said:

How did they know not to touch it? God never said anything about touching it. Was it right or wrong to touch it?

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Timtofly said:

How did they know not to touch it? God never said anything about touching it. Was it right or wrong to touch it?

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Peterlag said:

What I would love to know is what did Adam and Eve take part in? What did they eat? It seems that we will never know and can guess all day long since the Bible does not tell us. My guess is they gave back their spirit and wanted to see how cool it was to mostly walk by their senses. If the spirit is the one that has everlasting life. Then it would make sense when God told them if you do this then you will die. And this also makes sense that all died in Adam until Christ got the spirit back for us. Your thoughts?

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quietthinker said:

Genesis 3:3
'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'

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Gabriel _Arch said:

`You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die. "

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Timtofly said:

Those are Eve's words, interpretations of God's Word.

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Ritajanice said:

Then post the scripture and stop posting your personal remarks please.

Post the scripture where you said Adam had no faith?

That’s all I’m asking...I don’t want to hear your personal opinion...this is a Christian board...

Scripture please?

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Timtofly said:

"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

Do you base the change on knowledge or disobedience?




In the body of death.

"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."



Was the son of God, not is the son of God.

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Seth was not in God's image, but in the image of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

You are arguing with Scripture. If Adam did not physically die the instant he disobeyed God, that would make God a liar. Adam would not see himself as naked. Adam would not need redemption if he still had the physical body he was created with.



"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"



Adam was banned from the Garden. He lived in sin and death. Seth was born in sin and death.

You claim Adam had the ability to repent, prior to being kicked out of the Garden.



His dead corruptible physical body died years later. His God given incorruptible physical body died the instant Adam disobeyed God.



You quoted the verse that Adam was created the son of God. Now you change your mind?

Those in a state of death physically and spiritually alive on the earth keep reproducing more physical and spiritually dead humankind.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression."

We don't sin nor disobey like Adam did. We don't physically die each time we sin. Adam was the only created being along with Eve who physically died when Adam disobeyed. Through Seth, that state of death was passed to all humankind descended from Adam. That is not human understanding that is the Word of God.

"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

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Timtofly said:

Because consequences are not the result of knowledge. Consequences were the result of disobedience, or obedience. Knowledge is the result of consequences.

How can one have faith and knowledge at the same time? Faith is the result of obedience, not the result of knowing something.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

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Timtofly said:

This is the correct interpretational path, as Paul then clarifies the seed God chose in Isaac. In fact God was contrasting Abraham's choice with God's choice. Abraham's choice produced the point:

"Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

Abraham's choice produced Ishmael, but God's choice was Isaac. Then God's choice was Jacob instead of Isaac's choice, Esau.

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

God had already promised Isaac, but Abraham and Sarah did not wait for God, but had Ishmael in the decision of the flesh. So before twins were born, God already had declared His choice would be Jacob over Esau.

I don't know how any one can insert the Gentile aspect into these verses, as the Gentiles, if they did come from Israel would be through Joseph.

Even after including the Gentiles, Paul still quotes Isaiah and the point:

"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:"

So even if those of Israel number as the sands of the sea, most will not be Israel except the remnant that is redeemed.

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Timtofly said:

How in the world do you think Satan knew about death more than Adam and Eve did? All I have posted is based on Scripture, or in your opinion, the lack thereof.

How would Satan know what death was, even though he was getting to a point where Adam would disobey God? Satan seemed to think they would not die, because no one had died yet. Scripture does not state any one knew what death was, other than God. I can prove nothing had died yet, because there is no verse to say they had. That is your argument. You have no verse either.

I can use other Scripture though. Paul:

"Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

So unless a seed is planted nothing can spring up.

That is exactly what God states here:

"there was as yet no wild bush on the earth, and no wild plant had as yet sprung up; for Adonai, God, had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no one to cultivate the ground."

When did the Lord start cultivation?

"cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,"

There was no one to till the ground, because it had not been cursed yet. There were no wild things growing by way of seeds in the ground, because it was not cursed, and seeds were the only diet. They never entered the ground because they were all consumed.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so."

No plants died, because if they did they would not be replaced. Every living thing ate every seed and nothing died per Paul, because no seed entered the ground per God. Seeds were the only diet for all living things, even the birds. Seeds did not die, they were consumed as the only meat source.

There literally was no sin, nor death.

My opinion without Scripture is that I think Satan had to get Adam to disobey, before he could convince any angel to rebel against God. Could they have already rebelled, sure. But it seems that Adam and Eve would have known that, and would certainly have left the tree alone knowing that rebel angels were punished, and God would keep His Word.

We can know how Satan works on a limited basis by God by reading Job. Why would that be different in the case of Eve being decieved and all the angels who rebelled?

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Timtofly said:

Really, because lacking faith is an "evil sin" according to God.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God."

Adam lacked faith, disobeyed God, and the rest is history.... How much more evil can you get as there would be none, had Adam obeyed God.

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quietthinker said:

Yes, Eve's word quoting God's words which are Moses's words quoting who or what? Did God tell him blow for blow what had transpired in word and action or was it the accepted oral tradition of story telling passed down from Father or Mother to Son or Daughter through the generations?

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Timtofly said:

Adam disobeyed God. That is what happened. Most point to the fruit, and totally miss the point, that Adam disobeyed God.




Those are Eve's words, interpretations of God's Word. So many posters claim people post only their opinion. Now we have posters posting Eve's opinion, and they think Eve heard God say something, that God never said. If God had said those words, they should be recorded in chapter 2 where God actually gave the command.

Eve was not talking to the serpent 30 minutes after God planted the Garden of Eden. We don't need details filled in by other humans months or years after we already know what God said.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

If you are being so strict on your Scripture, did they die after Eve took a bite, or Adam? Did Eve die the second she touched it, even before she could take a bite? Seems like if that is what God actually said, she would have been dead the instant she touched the fruit, and realized she was naked way before she actually ate the fruit.

If you all are so in to speculation about Eve's opinion and touching the fruit, do you think Eve waited a few seconds after touching the fruit, or was it a lie, and she never hesitated to see if touching even did anything?

You all can speculate all you want and even quote Scripture. Paul said as by one man, sin entered the world. Was Paul being sexist, and should have pointed out that when Eve touched the fruit, sin entered the world?

When did the moment of disobedience happen? How many had to break commands before God was serious about the one thing we know God did say?

Satan lied about God's Word.

Even added to God's Word.

Adam disobeyed God's Word.

Yet it was Adam's disobedience that produced the result God said would happen.

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