All I can say is, I still don't see any evidence, if you choose to not produce any that simply proves my point.
Two witnesses 2+2=2?
- Thread starter Ridgerunner
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
All I can say is, I still don't see any evidence, if you choose to not produce any that simply proves my point.
Elle wrote:
" That psycho-babble nonsense might work on some people, but it isn't working on me. OK, we'll agree to disagree that you are in error if that is the way you prefer it. You are so cocksure that you're right, what happens when the day comes and it doesn't unfold as you imagined? I prefer to keep all views in mind with the way I believe at the forefront. That way I have not painted myself into a corner, scratching my head and exclaiming to myself "
Psycho-babble nonesense???...hmmmmm I apologized to you once for being more harsh than you liked and though you did the same right after-ward...not a peep about it...now you do this again? And you look down your nose at me? And then you even continue your assault... hmmmmmm Yes, I am firm...exceedingly, and for good reason...amen
As far as me painting myself into a corner... OF course I did, why...simple I can talk with these two witnesses anytime I deisre. And who would know more about these two witnesses than one of these two witnesses?
And it was God that revealed them to me. ( had you been with me...you would know them also ) Consider, if What I say is true...would you or othes here... NOT want to know, yet if I tell you...you attack me? Exactly how does that make YOU sane?
No it doesn't, it only appears that way to the beliefs you hold.
I have been trying to tell you this is not belief, but rather it is knowledge and fact.
Believe me, I'm not denying that most, but not all, are gentile Christians. It rests solely upon what your definition of a "gentile" is. This is why I asked you where in scriptures does it say the 2 witnesses are gentiles....
How about right here? ---- The two witnesses are gentiles. And again...ithis will be in the following testiment. ( Consider where I get the authority to say that, and without fear ) Now, you got three choices...
one I can say these things and much more for it is God given authority,
two... I am nuts... but then I should write insensibly... However, being that I have written 2 books on prophecy and publishers (of which there were many) considered my work well worth publishing... yet I decided to give it away freely. (copyright 1993)
I give my work freely, I keep myself poor...that makes me nuts? Nah, I just don't have the love of money others do. Not one publisher had any difficulty understanding my work... but you do? Hopefully it will be put on the internet again...soon.
three: I am an anti-christ... but a house divided cannot stand.... and Jesus is my Lord and Saviour - Jesus was God manifest on earth. There is another problem with this... I am near dirt floor poor and maintain that poverty status willfully with no end in sight. Not the action an anti-christ would take nor desire. Sorry I just don;t qualify for this.
Why am I defending myself... I really do not need to... to you, or to anyone else. However, at this time, while I await patiently, I have a gift I carry... it is not from me and the gift is the same as the greatest gift I am given and I wish many to receive this gift also.
But no one seems to want it... now...that is nuts. Why go into these things at all...especially knowing how I will be treated for it?
Like the old BK jingle, "Have it your way, have it your way!" Now that's wisdom at it's finest.
Not wisdom at all.... fact... big difference. Look I told you skepticism is ok... bashing though, is the by-product of denial.
I have destroyed cliches to display my God given wisdom and you have not acknowledged it - beacuse it does not fit with what you WANT your persception of ME to be. Is this action what you have learned from God's Word?
" That psycho-babble nonsense might work on some people, but it isn't working on me. OK, we'll agree to disagree that you are in error if that is the way you prefer it. You are so cocksure that you're right, what happens when the day comes and it doesn't unfold as you imagined? I prefer to keep all views in mind with the way I believe at the forefront. That way I have not painted myself into a corner, scratching my head and exclaiming to myself "
Psycho-babble nonesense???...hmmmmm I apologized to you once for being more harsh than you liked and though you did the same right after-ward...not a peep about it...now you do this again? And you look down your nose at me? And then you even continue your assault... hmmmmmm Yes, I am firm...exceedingly, and for good reason...amen
As far as me painting myself into a corner... OF course I did, why...simple I can talk with these two witnesses anytime I deisre. And who would know more about these two witnesses than one of these two witnesses?
And it was God that revealed them to me. ( had you been with me...you would know them also ) Consider, if What I say is true...would you or othes here... NOT want to know, yet if I tell you...you attack me? Exactly how does that make YOU sane?
No it doesn't, it only appears that way to the beliefs you hold.
I have been trying to tell you this is not belief, but rather it is knowledge and fact.
Believe me, I'm not denying that most, but not all, are gentile Christians. It rests solely upon what your definition of a "gentile" is. This is why I asked you where in scriptures does it say the 2 witnesses are gentiles....
How about right here? ---- The two witnesses are gentiles. And again...ithis will be in the following testiment. ( Consider where I get the authority to say that, and without fear ) Now, you got three choices...
one I can say these things and much more for it is God given authority,
two... I am nuts... but then I should write insensibly... However, being that I have written 2 books on prophecy and publishers (of which there were many) considered my work well worth publishing... yet I decided to give it away freely. (copyright 1993)
I give my work freely, I keep myself poor...that makes me nuts? Nah, I just don't have the love of money others do. Not one publisher had any difficulty understanding my work... but you do? Hopefully it will be put on the internet again...soon.
three: I am an anti-christ... but a house divided cannot stand.... and Jesus is my Lord and Saviour - Jesus was God manifest on earth. There is another problem with this... I am near dirt floor poor and maintain that poverty status willfully with no end in sight. Not the action an anti-christ would take nor desire. Sorry I just don;t qualify for this.
Why am I defending myself... I really do not need to... to you, or to anyone else. However, at this time, while I await patiently, I have a gift I carry... it is not from me and the gift is the same as the greatest gift I am given and I wish many to receive this gift also.
But no one seems to want it... now...that is nuts. Why go into these things at all...especially knowing how I will be treated for it?
Like the old BK jingle, "Have it your way, have it your way!" Now that's wisdom at it's finest.
Not wisdom at all.... fact... big difference. Look I told you skepticism is ok... bashing though, is the by-product of denial.
I have destroyed cliches to display my God given wisdom and you have not acknowledged it - beacuse it does not fit with what you WANT your persception of ME to be. Is this action what you have learned from God's Word?
Hi Terry,
You said:
"Psycho-babble nonesense???...hmmmmm I apologized to you once for being more harsh than you liked and though you did the same right after-ward...not a peep about it...now you do this again? And you look down your nose at me? And then you even continue your assault... hmmmmmm Yes, I am firm...exceedingly, and for good reason...amen"
I'm interested in the part where you said "you did the same right after-ward". Now I went and viewed my post, #107, which followed yours where you apologized. I see nothing in that post that could be construed as "harsh". Please copy and paste what you felt was harsh so that I may view it. And yes, it is psycho-babble, I apologize if you feel it isn't, but that is my opinion. And I am not sure how you feel I look down my nose at you. I clearly stated that we should agree to disagree and that was not satisfactory to you. In a way, you're asking for it when you refuse to let a matter drop. You have this insatiable desire to keep going on and on about the same issue over and over until you hear what it is you want to hear.
You said:
"As far as me painting myself into a corner... OF course I did, why...simple I can talk with these two witnesses anytime I deisre. And who would know more about these two witnesses than one of these two witnesses?
And it was God that revealed them to me. ( had you been with me...you would know them also ) Consider, if What I say is true...would you or othes here... NOT want to know, yet if I tell you...you attack me? Exactly how does that make YOU sane?"
So I guess that means, according to the part highlighted in red, that you think you are one of the 2 witnesses? If that being the case, then it is your sanity that I question for the 2 witnesses are a conglomeration of people, not 2 individuals. And you might want to head over to repairingthebreach.com, seems you might have some competition. I wouldn't attack you, I just don't believe you.
You said:
"I have been trying to tell you this is not belief, but rather it is knowledge and fact."
Prove it then, you can message me privately if it means that much to you. I'm willing to hear what you have to say, but don't expect me to buy it because you say it is so. If it does not align with scripture, then I'm tossing it in the garbage can.
You said:
"How about right here? ---- The two witnesses are gentiles."
No, I want scripture, not because you say they are.
You said:
"And again...ithis will be in the following testiment."
What testament?
You said:
"( Consider where I get the authority to say that, and without fear )"
I'm certainly questioning where you feel your authority is coming from?
You said:
"Now, you got three choices...
one I can say these things and much more for it is God given authority,"
All you have said is the 2 witnesses are gentiles with no forthcoming scriptural proof.
You said:
"two... I am nuts... but then I should write insensibly..."
With all due respect and a forthcoming apology, you do write insensibly.
You said:
"However, being that I have written 2 books on prophecy and publishers (of which there were many) considered my work well worth publishing... yet I decided to give it away freely. (copyright 1993)"
There are thousands upon thousands of books written on prophecy, mostly man's opinions. Writing a book, whether freely given or bought does not impress me.
You said:
"I give my work freely, I keep myself poor...that makes me nuts?"
Well considering that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David and Solomon were wealthy and nor does the Bible call one to be poor, then I'd say you might be teetering on the edge of being nuts. Wealth can definitely blind a person, but that is if you allow it too. Remember, it was you that asked if that makes you nuts, so I am responding to a question posed by you. So do not even begin to think or say I am attacking you.
You said:
"Nah, I just don't have the love of money others do."
You don't have to love money.
You said:
"Not one publisher had any difficulty understanding my work... but you do? Hopefully it will be put on the internet again...soon."
What work, you have not shown me any of your work? Just a claim that you still will not provide scripture for. I'm starting to question your truthfulness.
You said:
"three: I am an anti-christ... but a house divided cannot stand.... and Jesus is my Lord and Saviour - Jesus was God manifest on earth. There is another problem with this... I am near dirt floor poor and maintain that poverty status willfully with no end in sight. Not the action an anti-christ would take nor desire. Sorry I just don;t qualify for this."
Hmmmm, you think that there are not poor, antichrist people in the world today?
You said:
"Why am I defending myself... I really do not need to... to you, or to anyone else. However, at this time, while I await patiently, I have a gift I carry... it is not from me and the gift is the same as the greatest gift I am given and I wish many to receive this gift also.
But no one seems to want it... now...that is nuts. Why go into these things at all...especially knowing how I will be treated for it?"
All right, you came out of the gate at me, not the other way around. I'm getting a little tired of the poor me attitude. You show me where I attacked you that you feel a need to defend yourself. You better look in a mirror. Everyone on this board, myself included, think they have the gift. You are nothing special, but may prove to be later on. I said it once and I'll say it again, you need not believe anything I say. Just because what I believe does not mesh with what you believe, does not make you right. If you want to explain your belief in a calm, well written manner that's not jumping all over, then I will listen. If not, then I'm shaking the dust off my robes and walking away.
You said:
"Not wisdom at all.... fact... big difference. Look I told you skepticism is ok... bashing though, is the by-product of denial."
I wasn't bashing you, I was subtlety trying to tell you I'm done. Because it's your way or the highway. If that's what you call an attack and feel offended by it, then I apologize. What am I in denial about? Because I don't believe you, get over it. I see way too many flaws in your interpretation of scripture as you do mine. Guess that makes you in denial as well because you won't buy what I am saying. Difference between me and you is I could care less if someone agrees with me. It eats at your very soul when someone disagrees with you.
You said:
I have destroyed cliches to display my God given wisdom and you have not acknowledged it - beacuse it does not fit with what you WANT your persception of ME to be. Is this action what you have learned from God's Word?"
Trying to use God's word against me because I have not acknowledged your "wisdom" of which I have not seen will not make me bow to you. Exactly what do you feel is the perception you feel I want you to be? What I want is for you to drop it, quit forcing yourself on me. You make me feel like I am being spiritually raped. On second thought, please do not message me. I've decided I do not care to hear your beliefs or "wisdom". If I am wrong about you, I will answer to God and accept my fate. I will leave of with may God bless you! If you respond to this post, do not expect me to respond back. I'm done with you. You have a wonderful night.
You said:
"Psycho-babble nonesense???...hmmmmm I apologized to you once for being more harsh than you liked and though you did the same right after-ward...not a peep about it...now you do this again? And you look down your nose at me? And then you even continue your assault... hmmmmmm Yes, I am firm...exceedingly, and for good reason...amen"
I'm interested in the part where you said "you did the same right after-ward". Now I went and viewed my post, #107, which followed yours where you apologized. I see nothing in that post that could be construed as "harsh". Please copy and paste what you felt was harsh so that I may view it. And yes, it is psycho-babble, I apologize if you feel it isn't, but that is my opinion. And I am not sure how you feel I look down my nose at you. I clearly stated that we should agree to disagree and that was not satisfactory to you. In a way, you're asking for it when you refuse to let a matter drop. You have this insatiable desire to keep going on and on about the same issue over and over until you hear what it is you want to hear.
You said:
"As far as me painting myself into a corner... OF course I did, why...simple I can talk with these two witnesses anytime I deisre. And who would know more about these two witnesses than one of these two witnesses?
And it was God that revealed them to me. ( had you been with me...you would know them also ) Consider, if What I say is true...would you or othes here... NOT want to know, yet if I tell you...you attack me? Exactly how does that make YOU sane?"
So I guess that means, according to the part highlighted in red, that you think you are one of the 2 witnesses? If that being the case, then it is your sanity that I question for the 2 witnesses are a conglomeration of people, not 2 individuals. And you might want to head over to repairingthebreach.com, seems you might have some competition. I wouldn't attack you, I just don't believe you.
You said:
"I have been trying to tell you this is not belief, but rather it is knowledge and fact."
Prove it then, you can message me privately if it means that much to you. I'm willing to hear what you have to say, but don't expect me to buy it because you say it is so. If it does not align with scripture, then I'm tossing it in the garbage can.
You said:
"How about right here? ---- The two witnesses are gentiles."
No, I want scripture, not because you say they are.
You said:
"And again...ithis will be in the following testiment."
What testament?
You said:
"( Consider where I get the authority to say that, and without fear )"
I'm certainly questioning where you feel your authority is coming from?
You said:
"Now, you got three choices...
one I can say these things and much more for it is God given authority,"
All you have said is the 2 witnesses are gentiles with no forthcoming scriptural proof.
You said:
"two... I am nuts... but then I should write insensibly..."
With all due respect and a forthcoming apology, you do write insensibly.
You said:
"However, being that I have written 2 books on prophecy and publishers (of which there were many) considered my work well worth publishing... yet I decided to give it away freely. (copyright 1993)"
There are thousands upon thousands of books written on prophecy, mostly man's opinions. Writing a book, whether freely given or bought does not impress me.
You said:
"I give my work freely, I keep myself poor...that makes me nuts?"
Well considering that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David and Solomon were wealthy and nor does the Bible call one to be poor, then I'd say you might be teetering on the edge of being nuts. Wealth can definitely blind a person, but that is if you allow it too. Remember, it was you that asked if that makes you nuts, so I am responding to a question posed by you. So do not even begin to think or say I am attacking you.
You said:
"Nah, I just don't have the love of money others do."
You don't have to love money.
You said:
"Not one publisher had any difficulty understanding my work... but you do? Hopefully it will be put on the internet again...soon."
What work, you have not shown me any of your work? Just a claim that you still will not provide scripture for. I'm starting to question your truthfulness.
You said:
"three: I am an anti-christ... but a house divided cannot stand.... and Jesus is my Lord and Saviour - Jesus was God manifest on earth. There is another problem with this... I am near dirt floor poor and maintain that poverty status willfully with no end in sight. Not the action an anti-christ would take nor desire. Sorry I just don;t qualify for this."
Hmmmm, you think that there are not poor, antichrist people in the world today?
You said:
"Why am I defending myself... I really do not need to... to you, or to anyone else. However, at this time, while I await patiently, I have a gift I carry... it is not from me and the gift is the same as the greatest gift I am given and I wish many to receive this gift also.
But no one seems to want it... now...that is nuts. Why go into these things at all...especially knowing how I will be treated for it?"
All right, you came out of the gate at me, not the other way around. I'm getting a little tired of the poor me attitude. You show me where I attacked you that you feel a need to defend yourself. You better look in a mirror. Everyone on this board, myself included, think they have the gift. You are nothing special, but may prove to be later on. I said it once and I'll say it again, you need not believe anything I say. Just because what I believe does not mesh with what you believe, does not make you right. If you want to explain your belief in a calm, well written manner that's not jumping all over, then I will listen. If not, then I'm shaking the dust off my robes and walking away.
You said:
"Not wisdom at all.... fact... big difference. Look I told you skepticism is ok... bashing though, is the by-product of denial."
I wasn't bashing you, I was subtlety trying to tell you I'm done. Because it's your way or the highway. If that's what you call an attack and feel offended by it, then I apologize. What am I in denial about? Because I don't believe you, get over it. I see way too many flaws in your interpretation of scripture as you do mine. Guess that makes you in denial as well because you won't buy what I am saying. Difference between me and you is I could care less if someone agrees with me. It eats at your very soul when someone disagrees with you.
You said:
I have destroyed cliches to display my God given wisdom and you have not acknowledged it - beacuse it does not fit with what you WANT your persception of ME to be. Is this action what you have learned from God's Word?"
Trying to use God's word against me because I have not acknowledged your "wisdom" of which I have not seen will not make me bow to you. Exactly what do you feel is the perception you feel I want you to be? What I want is for you to drop it, quit forcing yourself on me. You make me feel like I am being spiritually raped. On second thought, please do not message me. I've decided I do not care to hear your beliefs or "wisdom". If I am wrong about you, I will answer to God and accept my fate. I will leave of with may God bless you! If you respond to this post, do not expect me to respond back. I'm done with you. You have a wonderful night.
Does that mean you claim to be one of those "two witnesses" of Rev.11 Terry?
The ONLY way the "two witnesses" subject could apply to any of us besides the two that emphatically will be killed in Jerusalem is within the two candlesticks meaning about two specific Churches that stand with those "two witnesses".
Not so Vet.. God chooses whom God wishes I have posted this before... but not in these words...
Sometimes our research not matter how diligent can be a stumbling block and blind us. when The Christ child was born... many estute people were blinded and did not recognize it, even unto being in denial.
Now, I have also posted that if anyone or group can come up with a valid test for the two witnesses I will reveal them. ( of course that test must be able to identify them before the 1,260 days begin) - and any place I can help... I will. I will tell you this about me... I have been directed by God to teach one, if not both of them... and they know this. Also, I have been teaching them for many years, even from before God showed me I was to teach them. That instruction occured on Aug, 14 2004. and you would know this had you been there.
Now, if what I have said is true... exactly how could i change any on my stances on this?
Prior to Aug 14, 2004 I thought the two were to be Enoch and Elijah also....but I never really tested it.
So in the 2 books I wrote, this was one of the edits I had to do. Even years prior to this date. I had prayed to be one of them and if not, I would follow them and assist them whenever I could. To do so meant removal of MY denial bone. With that, often in this forum I have given outlines to the identity of the two witnesses even explaining why they are Gentiles, Why they are not Enoch and Elijah, John or Moses..etc...
Understand...my words here MUST be somewhat obscure lest I get hit head-on with denial. I know this and it stifles me from a host information I could otherwise present. This is one reason I request others provide a test. I am not the only person who knows them, I just know them best.
Ok... where do we go from here?
Sometimes our research not matter how diligent can be a stumbling block and blind us. when The Christ child was born... many estute people were blinded and did not recognize it, even unto being in denial.
Now, I have also posted that if anyone or group can come up with a valid test for the two witnesses I will reveal them. ( of course that test must be able to identify them before the 1,260 days begin) - and any place I can help... I will. I will tell you this about me... I have been directed by God to teach one, if not both of them... and they know this. Also, I have been teaching them for many years, even from before God showed me I was to teach them. That instruction occured on Aug, 14 2004. and you would know this had you been there.
Now, if what I have said is true... exactly how could i change any on my stances on this?
Prior to Aug 14, 2004 I thought the two were to be Enoch and Elijah also....but I never really tested it.
So in the 2 books I wrote, this was one of the edits I had to do. Even years prior to this date. I had prayed to be one of them and if not, I would follow them and assist them whenever I could. To do so meant removal of MY denial bone. With that, often in this forum I have given outlines to the identity of the two witnesses even explaining why they are Gentiles, Why they are not Enoch and Elijah, John or Moses..etc...
Understand...my words here MUST be somewhat obscure lest I get hit head-on with denial. I know this and it stifles me from a host information I could otherwise present. This is one reason I request others provide a test. I am not the only person who knows them, I just know them best.
Ok... where do we go from here?
Out of context, using Daniel 8-13 to speak of Daniel 9. That is referring to the Sanctuary cleasning after the 1260 days (meaning years).
Veteran, my "placement" of the 70 weeks is not firmly established so my thoughts on it are open for consideration. As we continue this topic, I believe you should know that.
My speculation would be that it began in 1969 as so many other things seem to provide for that as valid.
Veteran wrote: " The ONLY way the "two witnesses" subject could apply to any of us besides the two that emphatically will be killed in Jerusalem is within the two candlesticks meaning about two specific Churches that stand with those "two witnesses". "
I have been telling you and others for a long time, claiming they are two churches is an assumption (until God tells the witness it is so, they consider it not so - then the two churches must be selected). If I was to speculate what the two churches might be... one would be Baptist - the other, probably the one, one of the two witnesses attend - which is non-denominational. Now, I am unsure how anyone arrives at this because I know these two witnesses personally. To answer your question on whether or not I claim to be one fo those witnesses... My answer is..... I cannot answer that right now. Here is why.. If I am and was to say yes... then a full blown denial would ensue. If I am was was to say no... I would be lying. If I was not and said so... then I would be considered like Son of Man who claimed they are in some sandlot making blood pools or something to that effect. If I said yes and I was not then I would be lying. So... I posted the desire to have test... then I would reveal them.
Veteran, I really do understand how "obsurd" this must sound......... but they are somewhere and so, why would they not engage in discussionsof prophecy. And unlike people think, they do not possess the wisdom of Solomon he was the wisest prophet of all...meaning alll others fell short, even Enoch and John and Moses and Daniel and David. Also, prophets used the assistance of other prophets and ministers to learn. Veteran, I appreciate your input above all others here, though there are others here I really appreciate also. So, if YOU really want to learn more - use the e-mail thingy and I will give you personal and further insight, because I believe you can control your denial without proof bone.
Please Vet, show me you are like the others that though skepticle, are not in denial. And I will reveal to you the entire vision that God gave concerning the two witnesses. I would not be saying this if I thought for a moment you were not capable of following through with this.
My speculation would be that it began in 1969 as so many other things seem to provide for that as valid.
Veteran wrote: " The ONLY way the "two witnesses" subject could apply to any of us besides the two that emphatically will be killed in Jerusalem is within the two candlesticks meaning about two specific Churches that stand with those "two witnesses". "
I have been telling you and others for a long time, claiming they are two churches is an assumption (until God tells the witness it is so, they consider it not so - then the two churches must be selected). If I was to speculate what the two churches might be... one would be Baptist - the other, probably the one, one of the two witnesses attend - which is non-denominational. Now, I am unsure how anyone arrives at this because I know these two witnesses personally. To answer your question on whether or not I claim to be one fo those witnesses... My answer is..... I cannot answer that right now. Here is why.. If I am and was to say yes... then a full blown denial would ensue. If I am was was to say no... I would be lying. If I was not and said so... then I would be considered like Son of Man who claimed they are in some sandlot making blood pools or something to that effect. If I said yes and I was not then I would be lying. So... I posted the desire to have test... then I would reveal them.
Veteran, I really do understand how "obsurd" this must sound......... but they are somewhere and so, why would they not engage in discussionsof prophecy. And unlike people think, they do not possess the wisdom of Solomon he was the wisest prophet of all...meaning alll others fell short, even Enoch and John and Moses and Daniel and David. Also, prophets used the assistance of other prophets and ministers to learn. Veteran, I appreciate your input above all others here, though there are others here I really appreciate also. So, if YOU really want to learn more - use the e-mail thingy and I will give you personal and further insight, because I believe you can control your denial without proof bone.
Please Vet, show me you are like the others that though skepticle, are not in denial. And I will reveal to you the entire vision that God gave concerning the two witnesses. I would not be saying this if I thought for a moment you were not capable of following through with this.
I pray the Lord be with you both
THAT WHICH MUST BE AVOIDED
IN OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH ONE ANOTHER
THAT WHICH MUST BE CULTIVATED
IN OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH ONE ANOTHER
THAT WHICH MUST BE AVOIDED
IN OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH ONE ANOTHER
#1 -- "And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up (betray) one another and hate one another .... and most people's love will grow cold" (Matthew 24:10, 12). "For we also once were foolish ourselves .... spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another" (Titus 3:3).
#2 -- "How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?" (John 5:44). See also: Galatians 1:10.
#3 -- "Jesus answered and said to them, 'Do not grumble with one another'" (John 6:43). This is the Greek word gogguzo which means "to murmur, grumble; to express indignant complaint; to utter secret and sullen discontent; to speak privately and in a low voice" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon of the NT). See also: I Peter 4:9.
#4 -- "And on the following day he appeared to them as they were fighting together, and he tried to reconcile them in peace, saying, 'Men, you are brethren, why do you injure (hurt, wrong, act unjustly toward) one another?'" (Acts 7:26).
#5 -- "And there arose such a sharp disagreement that they separated (parted company) from one another" (Acts 15:39). This incident has been viewed both positively and negatively. The truth is probably a combination of the two.
#6 -- "The men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts..." (Romans 1:27).
#7 -- "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another" (Romans 14:13). "Who are you to judge the servant of another?" (Romans 14:4). "Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you" (Matthew 7:1-2).
#8 -- "Stop depriving one another, unless perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to devote yourselves to prayer" (I Corinthians 7:5). Advice given to husbands and wives so that they might remain united in marriage and not be tempted by Satan to sin sexually in such a way as to destroy their "oneness."
#9 -- "If you keep on biting and devouring one another, watch out or you will be destroyed (consumed) by one another" (Galatians 5:15). The NAB, St. Joseph Edition renders it this way: "If you go on biting and tearing one another to pieces, take care! You will end up in mutual destruction!"
#10 -- "Let us not become boastful, challenging (provoking, irritating) one another, envying one another" (Galatians 5:26).
#11 -- "Do not lie to one another" (Colossians 3:9).
#12 -- "Do not, my brothers, speak ill of (slander, speak out against) one another. The one who speaks ill of his brother or judges his brother is speaking against the law .... There is but one Lawgiver and Judge, one who can save and destroy. Who then are you to judge your neighbor?" (James 4:11-12).
#13 -- "Do not complain, brethren, against one another, that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door" (James 5:9). This is the Greek word stenazo which means "to groan or sigh inwardly; to complain or murmur against; to give vent to peevish, critical, fault-finding feelings" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon of the NT).
THAT WHICH MUST BE CULTIVATED
IN OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH ONE ANOTHER
#1 -- "Be at peace with one another" (Mark 9:50). "If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men" (Romans 12:18). "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9). "So then let us pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another" (Romans 14:19). Jesus is our peace; He broke down all barriers that divide us and made us into ONE BODY, "thus establishing peace" (Ephesians 2:14-18). "Be diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Ephesians 4:3).
#2 -- "If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you" (John 13:14-15). Jesus did not intend here to institute a new symbolic rite/ritual or an actual sacrament, rather He showed that "He, their leader, had stooped to serve their needs, and that they should do the same for one another. The emphasis is on the inner attitude of humble and voluntary service for others" (The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol. 9, p. 137).
#3 -- "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another" (John 13:34-35). "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. This I command you, that you love one another" (John 15:12, 17). See also: Matthew 22:37-40; Romans 13:8-10; I John 2:9-11; 3:10-11, 14-15, 23; 4:7-21.
#4 -- "For I long to see you in order that .... you and I may be mutually encouraged by one another's faith" (Romans 1:11-12). "...not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near" (Hebrews 10:25). "Therefore encourage one another, and build up one another, just as you also are doing" (I Thessalonians 5:11).
#5 -- "For as each of us has one body with many members, and not all the members have the same function, so too we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually members one of another. We have gifts (abilities, talents) that differ according to the favor bestowed on each of us" (Romans 12:4-6). "We are members of one another" (Ephesians 4:25). See also: I Corinthians 12:4-30; Ephesians 4:1-16; I Peter 4:10.
#6 -- "Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves" (Romans 12:10). "Let each of you regard one another as more important than himself" (Philippians 2:3). "All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another" (I Peter 5:5). "Submit to (defer to, be subject to) one another out of reverence for Christ" (Ephesians 5:21).
#7 -- "Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited" (Romans 12:16). The NIV phrases it this way: "Live in harmony with one another." The NAB says: "Have the same attitude toward all." "May God, the source of all patience and encouragement, enable you to live in perfect harmony with one another according to the Spirit of Christ Jesus" (Romans 15:5, NAB).
#8 -- "Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love therefore is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:8, 10).
#9 -- "Let us pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another" (Romans 14:19). "Therefore encourage one another, and build up one another, just as you also are doing" (I Thessalonians 5:11). When each member of the Body does its part in love, it "causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love" (Ephesians 4:16).
#10 -- "Accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God" (Romans 15:7). See also: Romans 14:1-3.
#11 -- "And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able also to admonish one another" (Romans 15:14). This is the Greek word noutheteo which means: "to place within the mind; to instruct; warning based on instruction" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words). The NIV says: "Competent to instruct one another." The NAB & NEB say: "Able to give advice to one another."
#12 -- "Greet one another with a holy kiss" (Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II Corinthians 13:12). "Greet one another with a kiss of love" (I Peter 5:14). A visible, physical expression of love and fellowship.
#13 -- "There should be no division (schism, dissension) in the body, but the members should have the same care (equally concerned) for one another. If one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members share its joy" (I Corinthians 12:25-26). "Help carry (bear) one another's burdens; in that way you will fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2).
#14 -- "Through love serve one another" (Galatians 5:13). "As each one has received a special gift (talent, ability), employ it in serving one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (I Peter 4:10).
#15 -- "Walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance (bearing with, endure patiently) to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Ephesians 4:1-3). "Put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace" (Colossians 3:12-15). "Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you" (Ephesians 4:31-32). "Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed" (James 5:16).
#16 -- "May the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all men" (I Thessalonians 3:12). "Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; and this you are doing with respect to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more" (I Thessalonians 4:9-10). "The love of each one of you toward one another grows ever greater" (II Thessalonians 1:3).
#17 -- "Therefore comfort one another " (I Thessalonians 4:18). This is from a Greek word which conveys the idea of calling someone to your side and placing an arm around them for the purpose of giving comfort, consolation and encouragement.
#18 -- "See that no one repays another with evil for evil (or "wrong for wrong" ---NIV), but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all men" (I Thessalonians 5:15).
#19 -- "Let us consider how to stimulate (stir up, rouse, spur on) one another to love and good deeds" (Hebrews 10:24).
#20 -- "Be hospitable to one another without complaining (grumbling)" (I Peter 4:9). "Practice hospitality" (Romans 12:13). "An overseer, then, must be .... hospitable" (I Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:8).
#21 -- "Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere (unhypocritical) love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart" (I Peter 1:22). "Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers over a multitude of sins" (I Peter 4:8).
#22 -- "For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another" (I John 3:11). "And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us" (I John 3:23). "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love" (I John 4:7-8). "Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has beheld God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us" (I John 4:11-12). "If someone says 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also" (I John 4:20-21). "And now I ask you, lady, not as writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another" (II John 5).
There is one final "one another" passage that we should examine. This passage should be a challenge to each disciple of Christ! "Now Herod and Pilate became friends with one another that very day; for before they had been at enmity with one another" (Luke 23:12). If two pagans can put their conflict behind them and become friends over their hatred for Jesus Christ, is it not possible for Christians to put their conflict behind them and become friends over their love for Jesus Christ?!!
May God truly help each of us to avoid those things which destroy relationships, and to cultivate those things which build them up!!
Kind of straining at a gnat aren't 'cha? The cleansing of the sanctuary idea is about the anointing of the most Holy, i.e., the most Holy Place, the Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40-47.
That's why the 2300 days period of Dan.8:14 can only be discovered by its place at the end of the time, times, and an half and going backwards.
Dan 8:13-14
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
(KJV)
How long -
"shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,"
"and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
That means from the START of sacrifies again in Jerusalem involving the temple planned to be built in our times, until... the end of the abomination of desolation and the sanctuary is trodden under foot by the Gentiles (Rev.11:1-2).
Per the Rev.11:1-2 Scripture, the Gentiles are given to tread for a period of 42 months. That 42 months equals the period of Daniel's "time, times, and an half" of Dan.12:7.
|---------------Daniel's "ONE WEEK"------------------------------------------|
|--temple and sacrifices ----| MIDDLE |-----42 months tread------------|
|---220 days-|--1040 days--|...............|---time, times, half (1260)------|
....................|---------------------2300 days-------------------------------->||< Christ's return and start of cleansing
Hi Terry, Your words: "This is one reason I request others provide a test."
Alright, I have a test for you. According to Rev. 11:5 - "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."
Have them breathe fire like a dragon and provide the undoctored video.
Alright, I have a test for you. According to Rev. 11:5 - "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."
Have them breathe fire like a dragon and provide the undoctored video.
Trekson, You are much smarter than that... I have been reading your posts.
Did you accidently neglect this --- ( of course that test must be able to identify them before the 1,260 days begin) ???
This is currently BEFORE they are given power... AND after they are given power... why would they allow themselves to be "tessted" for their actions will already provide the proof.
Did you accidently neglect this --- ( of course that test must be able to identify them before the 1,260 days begin) ???
This is currently BEFORE they are given power... AND after they are given power... why would they allow themselves to be "tessted" for their actions will already provide the proof.
Hi Terry, Hey, you're the one that was looking for a test. A single attempt at a prophesy wouldn't be sufficient as they would have a 50/50 shot at being correct naturally. I also don't believe the two witnesses will be gentiles and I also don't believe they would begin their "work" until after the rapture. Their "work" will fill the gap the raptured church leaves behind as a witness for God. Just my opinion.
Trekson wrote: " Hey, you're the one that was looking for a test. A single attempt at a prophesy wouldn't be sufficient as they would have a 50/50 shot at being correct naturally. I also don't believe the two witnesses will be gentiles and I also don't believe they would begin their "work" until after the rapture. Their "work" will fill the gap the raptured church leaves behind as a witness for God. Just my opinion. "
Hi Trekson. Actually the true test of a prophet is prophecy. However, these two prophets are witnesses and they are not given power of a prophet until the time of their 1,260 days. So the true test of a prophet is not available here. Hence the reason nother test is required. Once their 1,260 days testing is ...well ...moot.
It may do well if enough of the estute people in this forum tossed their wisdom into this quest and we started a thread for this express purpose. I cannot express the advanage to all here that enter into this quest once a proficient test is developed... and I do not have to add; And thee wo witnesses pass it, because they surely will pass it... IF a proper test can be discovered. IF I, who knows these two witnesses knew a proper test I would have shown it and revealed them for testing. This test is not a simple endeavor.
When a prophet gives prophecy as a test ... there is a need for detail and it is in this that the prophecy can be validated... not just some prophecy like...the sun will rise tomorrow and there will be a red sky. But like for example a ship will float down madison avenue and come to rest at the intersection of 5th avenue at a liquor store and it will have a pink colored elephant aboard and that pink elephant will save many lives. Now a single prophecy like that would certainly validate them and shows no 50% odds.
I have given some of the many reasons they are Gentiles such as they are proof the Christian Gentiles are grafted untop the vine of the Jews. Their work is to wake up the world by slapping it around and to reveal the beast. Besides the fact that I know them extremely well and I know they are Gentile Christians.
Now, if this test took no thought to develop, I would have revealed them for testing already.
Why would I desire them to be tested and known and they would wish that as well? Think of the benefit to the Christian population if their understanding could be known ahead of time. If not the Christian population then...just this forum and all the people of this forum that could help others with this information. If their will could diect what they can do now, it would be secretly healing others, solving abducted children and revealing their captors, going to mental instutions and erradicating those inside of the demons possessing them, Seeking trauma wards and healing children with cancer, seeing a blind person and giving or restoring sight and more, yet all these things be done secretly so when it is time for the whole world (generalizing) to hate them, that this prophecy is not denied its tuth. Or just being allowed to impower others that these things can be done. You may be able to imagine how much it pains these two witnesses that these things cannot be done while waiting patiently for their time to commence.
Hi Trekson. Actually the true test of a prophet is prophecy. However, these two prophets are witnesses and they are not given power of a prophet until the time of their 1,260 days. So the true test of a prophet is not available here. Hence the reason nother test is required. Once their 1,260 days testing is ...well ...moot.
It may do well if enough of the estute people in this forum tossed their wisdom into this quest and we started a thread for this express purpose. I cannot express the advanage to all here that enter into this quest once a proficient test is developed... and I do not have to add; And thee wo witnesses pass it, because they surely will pass it... IF a proper test can be discovered. IF I, who knows these two witnesses knew a proper test I would have shown it and revealed them for testing. This test is not a simple endeavor.
When a prophet gives prophecy as a test ... there is a need for detail and it is in this that the prophecy can be validated... not just some prophecy like...the sun will rise tomorrow and there will be a red sky. But like for example a ship will float down madison avenue and come to rest at the intersection of 5th avenue at a liquor store and it will have a pink colored elephant aboard and that pink elephant will save many lives. Now a single prophecy like that would certainly validate them and shows no 50% odds.
I have given some of the many reasons they are Gentiles such as they are proof the Christian Gentiles are grafted untop the vine of the Jews. Their work is to wake up the world by slapping it around and to reveal the beast. Besides the fact that I know them extremely well and I know they are Gentile Christians.
Now, if this test took no thought to develop, I would have revealed them for testing already.
Why would I desire them to be tested and known and they would wish that as well? Think of the benefit to the Christian population if their understanding could be known ahead of time. If not the Christian population then...just this forum and all the people of this forum that could help others with this information. If their will could diect what they can do now, it would be secretly healing others, solving abducted children and revealing their captors, going to mental instutions and erradicating those inside of the demons possessing them, Seeking trauma wards and healing children with cancer, seeing a blind person and giving or restoring sight and more, yet all these things be done secretly so when it is time for the whole world (generalizing) to hate them, that this prophecy is not denied its tuth. Or just being allowed to impower others that these things can be done. You may be able to imagine how much it pains these two witnesses that these things cannot be done while waiting patiently for their time to commence.
Well terry what kind of test did you use to validate the 2 witnesses, since you are the only person on Earth that knows their identity ?
I never claimed I am the only one on earth that knows them, there are others. My test..I actually requested a certain person who had been denying personal; baptism to accept it and re-affirm his Christianity through baptism without me involved or requesting it and he did so fully. and on that following Sunday....not the next one or just any Sunday but that same following Sunday. Test passed. And this although no test was even needed as I understood this vision immediately and its origin.
Maybe you should understand something... there is no reward, gratification, edification or other I am persuing for me here, this is for people in this forum. The reward for accepting a prophet as a prophet is a prophet's reward. No gain for me. You do not know this?
The reason for a test is that no one here would blindly be accepting a prophet/witness as a prophet/witness. That kind of blindness has caused too many problems such a james town. And so, before acceptance... I offer the proposal of a test. not for me but for your benefit. And I get mocked, ridiculed and/or denied??? Dang
I guess it is getting time to simply just stop this area of discussion, its wearing me out.
Maybe you should understand something... there is no reward, gratification, edification or other I am persuing for me here, this is for people in this forum. The reward for accepting a prophet as a prophet is a prophet's reward. No gain for me. You do not know this?
The reason for a test is that no one here would blindly be accepting a prophet/witness as a prophet/witness. That kind of blindness has caused too many problems such a james town. And so, before acceptance... I offer the proposal of a test. not for me but for your benefit. And I get mocked, ridiculed and/or denied??? Dang
I guess it is getting time to simply just stop this area of discussion, its wearing me out.
What you described about baptism sounds more like an answered prayer than something the 2 witnesses did. The Holy Spirit draws one to repentance,not an individual claiming to be one of the 2 witnesses of Rev.
Of course it was baptism, but answering a prayer? I did not "pray" he woiuld re-affirm his Christianity through another baptism, I gave this as a test, what should I have done ask my rug stayed dry? And it could have been delayed a month, a year or more thus failing the test. So this test had a benefit to God, to him, and to me - as the test was passed.
What is this,,, you don't like the outcome of the game so you try to change the rules? This is exactly why we have so many diofferent religions in Christianity and why there are so many false gods. You must step up your wisdom. I told you I did test the vision, I told you the test was passed and I told you what the test was. Now, I am the originator of the test.. not you,,, not anyone else. If you want to think the test was invalid you deal with it. I know the test was valid, effective and passed. What rights do You or anyone else have to the test or its outcome or its passing? none. I chose the test I gave the test God's vission passed the test... simple
Now if I had said your daughter would re-affirm her Christian Baptism she had as a child by doing it again as an adult and gave this as a test to validate the vision I was given... and with no pressure from her parents and no knowlegde this was a test... did so the very next Sunday... would you still claim this was not valid?
Furthermore... you said this was in answer to a prayer. Lets look at this a moment. You take this as a prayer answered yet I did not pray for it. You take this as an answered prayer but the timing was inlind with the test. You take this as a prayer answered...meaning it was a prayer and answered by God at the exact same time as the test I gave to God concerning the vision I was given and it happens and I am supposed to deny the test?
OK, I will contiue further as you did not come out with point blank denial, just some questions. I see you are excersizing more wisdom and less denial... good for you.
God Bless
===========================================================
I began this direction in this forum as a "Lets Play a Game" Lets say I am one of the two witnesses ( I do know them both exceedingly well - not a game) Now exactly of what consequence is it to me that you or anyone here know I am one of the two witnesses? answer = the only consequence is that the learnered people here and those with diverse perspectives could assist in the increase of knowledge I posses, however God could give that knowwledge to me at any time. So, it is of more consequence to all those that enagage in this "game" until they can accept me as a prophet of God for the reward of acceptance is a prophet's reward.
Exactly what have I have posted that denies me this "title" as valid? The mere claim that I aqm one of the two witnesses is not a valid reason for denial. And that leaves no reason for my discrediting. I also claimed these two witnesses are Gentiles and that issue has been attacked (not harshly, just attacked) and yet I had already posted reasons they must be Gentile Christians and reasons they must not be Jews. As Gentile Christians they ARE proof the Gentile Christians are grafted unto the vine of the Jews. Moreover... the 7 candle sticks and their placement does not agree with the placement of the positioning of the two witnesses. Meaning there will be two more Candle sticks and their position is along side the throne. Further yet, the Jews will not reccognize them as prophets because they are NOT Jewish.
Consider the centuries schollars have missed this easy to understand truth and yet this lowly person with no college degree presents it so easily...consider that.
I shall also offer this understanding... The two witnesses are not any Jewish Church...for they are Gentile Christians and the Church they are to become (if theyare to become) would be a Gentile Church and their position along side the throne instead of being 2 of the 7 candle sticks validates this. Becasue their arrival is so close to the end of this age... culminating with Armageddon.. their churches (if God has so chosen) would be started After Armageddon and last 1,000 years... then be set amoung the 7...grafted unto the vine.
This act fully validates scripture concerning the "Grafting unto the vine of the Jews" At this time, this is just my opinion. (Except what is in red)
Rex wrote this in another thread: " Can you tell me the benefit of endless disagreement on a subject that we all know can not be known? That being the return of Christ. These prophesy threads read like a group of different fortunetellers--------- each and everyone in disagreement. That's simply a statement of the fact 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 "
Rex, understand these forums are for people to reveal their understanding and though it may seem endless it is not. Had this forum been around in 1965, we could have been in many heated battles attempting to understand when or even if the Jews would have taken Jerusalem in our lifetime. But in just a few years those debates would have been laid to rest. Now let us consider that our understainding is supposed to be unclear as the information is already given in scripture but because they are sealed we must await the opening of each seal to gain truth in understanding. So for now, we speculate and try our best to inderstand it before it is time... and in this...when the seal is opened and because we have spent this time debating,,, we can more easliy recognize the comming events when the vail is removed. All those refusing to research for them selves and refusing to enter opposing perspectives will most likely remain in the dark longer. As for calling those of us debating the issues for better understanding and being called foretunetellers... I should say this at this time... " Get thee behind me Satan. " In its stead I will simply ask you reconsider your stance. God Bless You.
What is this,,, you don't like the outcome of the game so you try to change the rules? This is exactly why we have so many diofferent religions in Christianity and why there are so many false gods. You must step up your wisdom. I told you I did test the vision, I told you the test was passed and I told you what the test was. Now, I am the originator of the test.. not you,,, not anyone else. If you want to think the test was invalid you deal with it. I know the test was valid, effective and passed. What rights do You or anyone else have to the test or its outcome or its passing? none. I chose the test I gave the test God's vission passed the test... simple
Now if I had said your daughter would re-affirm her Christian Baptism she had as a child by doing it again as an adult and gave this as a test to validate the vision I was given... and with no pressure from her parents and no knowlegde this was a test... did so the very next Sunday... would you still claim this was not valid?
Furthermore... you said this was in answer to a prayer. Lets look at this a moment. You take this as a prayer answered yet I did not pray for it. You take this as an answered prayer but the timing was inlind with the test. You take this as a prayer answered...meaning it was a prayer and answered by God at the exact same time as the test I gave to God concerning the vision I was given and it happens and I am supposed to deny the test?
OK, I will contiue further as you did not come out with point blank denial, just some questions. I see you are excersizing more wisdom and less denial... good for you.
God Bless
===========================================================
I began this direction in this forum as a "Lets Play a Game" Lets say I am one of the two witnesses ( I do know them both exceedingly well - not a game) Now exactly of what consequence is it to me that you or anyone here know I am one of the two witnesses? answer = the only consequence is that the learnered people here and those with diverse perspectives could assist in the increase of knowledge I posses, however God could give that knowwledge to me at any time. So, it is of more consequence to all those that enagage in this "game" until they can accept me as a prophet of God for the reward of acceptance is a prophet's reward.
Exactly what have I have posted that denies me this "title" as valid? The mere claim that I aqm one of the two witnesses is not a valid reason for denial. And that leaves no reason for my discrediting. I also claimed these two witnesses are Gentiles and that issue has been attacked (not harshly, just attacked) and yet I had already posted reasons they must be Gentile Christians and reasons they must not be Jews. As Gentile Christians they ARE proof the Gentile Christians are grafted unto the vine of the Jews. Moreover... the 7 candle sticks and their placement does not agree with the placement of the positioning of the two witnesses. Meaning there will be two more Candle sticks and their position is along side the throne. Further yet, the Jews will not reccognize them as prophets because they are NOT Jewish.
Consider the centuries schollars have missed this easy to understand truth and yet this lowly person with no college degree presents it so easily...consider that.
I shall also offer this understanding... The two witnesses are not any Jewish Church...for they are Gentile Christians and the Church they are to become (if theyare to become) would be a Gentile Church and their position along side the throne instead of being 2 of the 7 candle sticks validates this. Becasue their arrival is so close to the end of this age... culminating with Armageddon.. their churches (if God has so chosen) would be started After Armageddon and last 1,000 years... then be set amoung the 7...grafted unto the vine.
This act fully validates scripture concerning the "Grafting unto the vine of the Jews" At this time, this is just my opinion. (Except what is in red)
Rex wrote this in another thread: " Can you tell me the benefit of endless disagreement on a subject that we all know can not be known? That being the return of Christ. These prophesy threads read like a group of different fortunetellers--------- each and everyone in disagreement. That's simply a statement of the fact 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 "
Rex, understand these forums are for people to reveal their understanding and though it may seem endless it is not. Had this forum been around in 1965, we could have been in many heated battles attempting to understand when or even if the Jews would have taken Jerusalem in our lifetime. But in just a few years those debates would have been laid to rest. Now let us consider that our understainding is supposed to be unclear as the information is already given in scripture but because they are sealed we must await the opening of each seal to gain truth in understanding. So for now, we speculate and try our best to inderstand it before it is time... and in this...when the seal is opened and because we have spent this time debating,,, we can more easliy recognize the comming events when the vail is removed. All those refusing to research for them selves and refusing to enter opposing perspectives will most likely remain in the dark longer. As for calling those of us debating the issues for better understanding and being called foretunetellers... I should say this at this time... " Get thee behind me Satan. " In its stead I will simply ask you reconsider your stance. God Bless You.
Veteran, you still have yet to provide me with the Biblical Basis of the split of Daniels 69[sup]th[/sup] week, as pertaining to being in the past, and Daniel’s 70[sup]th[/sup] week, as pertaining to being in the future. Where is the split of this definite time prophecy? Why is there an assumed split between Daniel’s 70 weeks, but not in the 1260 days, the 1290 days, the 1335 days, and the 2300 days? Please provide me with Biblical support, that shows that God split up Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy, and that the 7 year trib theories are not fiction.
Daniel 9:24 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The most Holy is not a sanctuary. The most Holy is referring to Jesus Christ. In this time frame, the most Holy, was to be anointed. This is Jesus Christ.
Daniel 4:17 - This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
The reason I post this verse, is because look at the lettering of most High and most Holy. There is a most holy place in the sanctuary, but this is not referring to the sanctuary, but the living God – the most Holy. Anointing the most Holy, does not refer to a temple made with hands. It refers to the Messiah, which means the anointed one.
Dan 8:13-14 - Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
This is all history Veteran. We are much closer to the end than this. Please consider whom shall cause the daily sacrifice to end, and the time period.
Daniel 7:4-8 - The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
The Lion with wings, is Babylon.
The bear, with one side raised up is Medo-Persia.
The leopard is Grecia.
The fourth beast is Rome.
Daniel 7:19-25 - Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
It is the fourth beast, that had ten horns in his head, which subdued three. This beast is the one that treads down, and breaks things into pieces. It says for 1260 days (years) the saints of the most High shall be given into his hand.
Daniel 8:7-12 - And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
Daniel 8:20-25 - The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
In the latter time of the Kingdom of Grecia, a king of fierce countenance arose. Rome arose out of a part of Italy, which as I have seen thus far, in part, belonged to the Greeks. Rome is also the fourth Kingdom that arose after Grecia. Therefore, it is ROME that would take away the daily sacrifice. Now, after Rome had risen, when there were 10 parts of the kingdom, and then arose Papal Rome, after Pagan Rome fell. Papal Rome destroyed 3 of the 10 current kingdoms of Rome. And went into unmatched power for 42 months. Is it 42 literal months? No, this is prophecy, it is 42 prophetic months, meaning 1260 years. This is confirmed also in Revelation.
Note: These 10 kingdoms are not the same 10 kingdoms that have not yet received power with the Beast in the end times is. The reason being is, Papal Rome was scheduled to have complete power for 1260 years of an uninterrupted reign. However the 10 kingdoms in the end, only rain together, with the 8[sup]th[/sup] king for an hour. This automatically cannot be the same thing also, because one is a set time frame and the other is not a set time frame.
Look in the thread Flow of Daniel's 70 Weeks. And I hadn't noticed you asking me anything about that subject here.
Similar threads
