Israeli attack on civilians should be condemned by all believers

As I've stated in a former post, I am new and making my way down this thread list.

I think perspective is needed.

Israels innocent citizens, all ages in a war are impacted, were attacked with 5000 rockets descending upon their homes, temples, businesses, on October 7th 2024.

I think there is that fallacy of appeal to pity, coming from the OP.

I don't believe that generates a sincere concern for the issue in question.

Neither Israel nor Palestine is segregated into innocent community and that of guerilla fighters. They are integrated. Everywhere these conflicts arise. Warriors are born from conflict assaulting community.

We know this is true throughout all of history.

This war is centuries old. Who is righteous within its confines depends on what side you're on.

For Christians, Palestinian fighters are wrong. For Muslims,Jewish fighters are wrong.

We've come this far as a human race, as believers. And we slaughter one another because we believe eradicating one side is what lets us remain secure in the flesh, giving praise to the spirit we think compelled us to war.

It's wrong.

However, to not fight back means annihilation of either side that sits and takes no action.

dad said:

They would have to be secret in that country today I suspect. Too bad they were not more vocal.

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Yes - excommunication from the family - however there is a thriving messianic movement.

When I was there the Baptist Pastor was a top Hebrew scholar and when his church was burned down, the Jews financed the rebuilding.

Carl Emerson said:

my life is now punctuated with the miraculous - you can read more here. Jesus's Ministry

All glory to Jesus having given me a second chance in life and blessed me more than I could ask or think with a lovely wife and 5 children all grown up.

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That wasn’t really the big picture I was asking for, but it is your story and life experience as you understand it.
I read your link and agreed with the post that followed the testimony you made.

The miracles ceased when the apostles died, so they no longer feature in genuine Christian worship.
Paul said we had to grow up and base our faith on more mature qualities than the need to see miracles…..the devil can do tricks too, and he is said to transform or to disguise himself as “an angel of light”…..should we expect the deceiver to be obvious? He is wicked but can pretend to be good and his works, beneficial.

God withdrew the miracles because he knew that the devil would use his power to deceive the ignorant….and he has done so very effectively….he uses emotions to accomplish his goals….tug at the heartstrings, and you’ve got ‘em.…

The one defining thing about the miracles of the first century was the fact that they were not performed on believers…..only on unbelievers to bring them to Christ. The apostles never used the gift of healing on themselves or each other. And since the devil was to sow seeds of counterfeit “Christianity” we have to test out our beliefs in light of Christ’s teachings…..it was he who taught his apostles what his Father had taught him. The spiritual gifts were only passed on by the apostles, so that when they died, the genuine gifts died with them.

Miracles performed after the first century do not reflect the miracles of the apostles at all. We see so called miracles surface again with those who were members of the RCC and these mostly involved Mary….who attained a position in the church that was not found in the Bible.

Later Protestant churches branched out into faith healing, but forgot that miracles were only for unbelievers.
Church member showed up for their healing sessions and a lot walked away disappointed. It is clear that the devil can perform miracles too as the Bible itself teaches, so regardless of how amazingly good something appears to be….deception is just that…what appears to be, is not the reality.

If faith healing was carried out on the scale that took place in the first century, (and with the same success rate) we would have no need of hospitals or doctors, except for the believers! Unbelievers could be healed of all their maladies….but Paul suggested “a little wine” for Timothy’s frequent cases of sickness….(1 Tim 5:23).

Please know that I do not doubt your sincerity for a moment, but what I doubt is the source of your abilities, most especially if you have suffered with mental illness…..the devil is especially attracted to those he can easily manipulate when the mind is not sound. It’s why he loves drugs and alcohol…..they take away a person’s mental defense system. A deceived heart is a treacherous thing.

But getting back to “the big picture”…..what do you see as God’s purpose for mankind on this earth?
Why are we here? What is the kingdom of God….and what is its purpose?

Ronald Nolette said:

Which prison is that? Israelo abandoned Gaza in 2005 and built a wall to keep them to themselves. They provided defense and water and yes medical and food aid more than the Muslims crying how terrible the Israelis are for killing Palestinians.

Well if you wish to believe UNRWA that is your problem. Yes Israel has killed children. Yes Palestinians have been killing Jewish children for decades! They are rewarded FOR DOING SO! This is called a war! All wars no matter how just see innocent civilians die.

But then again your solution would be for Israel not to fire on the Hamas butchers when they hide thier ammunition, rockets and soldiers and HQ's in nhospitals, schools and neighborhoods. You would just rather see innocent Jews die instead!

Sorry but the land of Israel was never owned by an ethnic group called Palestinians. That term was not even used until the late 1940's! Jews have always lived in Israel, it is their ancestral land by Divine covenant!

Their is no ethnic group called Palestininas.

Sorry but Israel did not stop the Rafah crossing- Egypt did. they just stopped the trucks from proceeding to the northern half of gaza. Yes Israel has severely curtailed the flow of aid. but it is not Israel alone. Hams and Egypt and Iran have just as much a part in this.

If you wish to know how Palestinians and Israelis can live in peace? Just look at the West Bank. Lots of hatred ofr Israel there, but the Palestinians do not lob rockets into Israel (with any number), nor do they tunnel into Israel to kidnap and rape little children like Gazans do.

They ar emore prosperous, at more peace and quietness because though many hate Israel, they realized they need to get along to go along!

When you openly write here on this particular forum, your condemnation fo what Al-asqa, Hamas, Hezbollah have been doing for decades against teh innocents in Israel, then I guess I could care more for your anti-semitism. but until you do, your posts stink of Jew hating.

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Absolutely!

dad said:

He did not redeem Israel at that time of course. He redeemed as many as believed on Him. His people are those that receive Jesus. There is no corner of heaven where a bunch of people live that do not love Jesus. Israel is an exception among nations in that they were chosen, and departed from God,

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Even after they forsook Him, as I quoted!

dad said:

yet He reserves a time in the end they will be purged and saved. Till then, they are just another unsaved nation.

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You don't know that! You're too obsessed with attacking Israel. Just like Satan would do.

Aunty Jane said:

That wasn’t really the big picture I was asking for, but it is your story and life experience as you understand it.
I read your link and agreed with the post that followed the testimony you made.

The miracles ceased when the apostles died, so they no longer feature in genuine Christian worship.
Paul said we had to grow up and base our faith on more mature qualities than the need to see miracles…..the devil can do tricks too, and he is said to transform or to disguise himself as “an angel of light”…..should we expect the deceiver to be obvious? He is wicked but can pretend to be good and his works, beneficial.

God withdrew the miracles because he knew that the devil would use his power to deceive the ignorant….and he has done so very effectively….he uses emotions to accomplish his goals….tug at the heartstrings, and you’ve got ‘em.…

The one defining thing about the miracles of the first century was the fact that they were not performed on believers…..only on unbelievers to bring them to Christ. The apostles never used the gift of healing on themselves or each other. And since the devil was to sow seeds of counterfeit “Christianity” we have to test out our beliefs in light of Christ’s teachings…..it was he who taught his apostles what his Father had taught him. The spiritual gifts were only passed on by the apostles, so that when they died, the genuine gifts died with them.

Miracles performed after the first century do not reflect the miracles of the apostles at all. We see so called miracles surface again with those who were members of the RCC and these mostly involved Mary….who attained a position in the church that was not found in the Bible.

Later Protestant churches branched out into faith healing, but forgot that miracles were only for unbelievers.
Church member showed up for their healing sessions and a lot walked away disappointed. It is clear that the devil can perform miracles too as the Bible itself teaches, so regardless of how amazingly good something appears to be….deception is just that…what appears to be, is not the reality.

If faith healing was carried out on the scale that took place in the first century, (and with the same success rate) we would have no need of hospitals or doctors, except for the believers! Unbelievers could be healed of all their maladies….but Paul suggested “a little wine” for Timothy’s frequent cases of sickness….(1 Tim 5:23).

Please know that I do not doubt your sincerity for a moment, but what I doubt is the source of your abilities, most especially if you have suffered with mental illness…..the devil is especially attracted to those he can easily manipulate when the mind is not sound. It’s why he loves drugs and alcohol…..they take away a person’s mental defense system. A deceived heart is a treacherous thing.

But getting back to “the big picture”…..what do you see as God’s purpose for mankind on this earth?
Why are we here? What is the kingdom of God….and what is its purpose?

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Thanks for the response,

Aunty Jane said:

The miracles ceased when the apostles died, so they no longer feature in genuine Christian worship.

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Scripture to confirm this please.

Aunty Jane said:

The one defining thing about the miracles of the first century was the fact that they were not performed on believers

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James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed.

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The Kingdom is where Jesus reigns and Jesus gave John the Baptist the signs of it's coming...

Luke 7:22
And He answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them.

What I look for then is His Love at work and the Gospel preached with signs following.

Mark 16 “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

dad said:

Great. However the nation itself is in deep doo doo

No doubt there are believers and Jewish people who have some heart. The nation however is killing tens of thousands of women and children and starving people etc.

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I think it is too soon to know for sure the casualty detail.

You know the old saying "All's fair in Love and War" ??? So during War reports are traditionally inaccurate because 'facts' are presented to cast the enemy in a bad light, or are fudged to weaken resolve.

So threads like this are just setting up a contest of fibs - it is too soon to be sure and arguing half truths doesn't really yield much fruit, just plenty of angst.

Sorry - no one knows if Hamas is involved.

dad said:

Your quote had nothing about pagans or a secular nation or even Israel of Old not believing.

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Sure does!

dad said:

Better find some quotes that say what you claim. Anyone who would label calling out war crimes 'attacking' Israel is dishonest.

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God didn't have to ask permission to drown all but 8 on Earth and He certainly doesn't have to ask your permission to fight for Israel.

dad said:

His wrath coming against Israel is not fighting for it. Don't pretend God is on their side. He won't be until after they receive Him

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How do you think Israel took back the Land of the Bible? God fought for them against 7 COWARD Arab nations! You sound like you would have supported them too against Israel.

dad said:

Not with God's help. Prove He helped them steal it?

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Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

dad said:

Says you. God does not fight for pagans and unbelievers. He fights against them. The only time He fights for Israel is after they accept Jesus. Can you cite any bible that says otherwise?

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Here's some great advice. If you have loved ones, stop attacking Israel.

"I will CURSE those who curse you"!

Aunty Jane said:

The miracles ceased when the apostles died, so they no longer feature in genuine Christian worship.

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Oh my....I am sorry for you for more than one reason but, to be a Christian and think that miracles ceased when the apostles died....that is sad and wrong.