Replacement Theology

James,

Thanks for your response. With all respect, I would disagree with your assessment of that verse. I don't believe Paul uses that verse to substantiate double predestination. I think Romans 9 is about God's plans to use people for service and has nothing to do with personal salvation. JMHO. If you would like to discuss it further, perhaps you could start a thread on the matter or we could dialogue through personal messages as we don't want to sidetrack this thread .

James Forthwright said:

Well, I wasn’t expecting much in the way of support in this potentially volatile thread. What a pleasant surprise! Two affirming posts. And one from a forum moderator no less.

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LOL.... no offence to WW, but moderating does NOT mean your opinion carries more weight than others. I do agree with him that we should focus on the actual OP and not start sprinting down rabbit trails.

That's true, Stan. I am not a moderator because my views hold more weight, nor do they represent the views of Christianity Board. Just me and the frog in my pocket

Wormwood said:

James,

Thanks for your response. With all respect, I would disagree with your assessment of that verse. I don't believe Paul uses that verse to substantiate double predestination. I think Romans 9 is about God's plans to use people for service and has nothing to do with personal salvation. JMHO. If you would like to discuss it further, perhaps you could start a thread on the matter or we could dialogue through personal messages as we don't want to sidetrack this thread .

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I agree that the passage is speaking of God using who He will.

Wormwood said:

That's true, Stan. I am not a moderator because my views hold more weight, nor do they represent the views of Christianity Board. Just me and the frog in my pocket

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What's his name....Ribbit?

Haha, apparently Butch!

Wormwood said:

Haha, apparently Butch!

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His name is Butch?!

I refer you to the Butch5's user picture a few comments above.

Wormwood said:

I refer you to the Butch5's user picture a few comments above.

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Hahahaha...didn't even notice!

"ribbit....ribbit".

ATP said:

God is certainly not done with Israel.

Psalm 83:16-18 NIV Cover their faces with shame, Lord, so that they will seek your name. 17May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace. 18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Isa 63:7-9 NIV I will tell of the kindnesses of the Lord, the deeds for which he is to be praised, according to all the Lord has done for us—yes, the many good things he has done for Israel, according to his compassion and many kindnesses. 8He said, “Surely they are my people, children who will be true to me”; and so he became their Savior. 9In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.

Isa 63:14 NIV like cattle that go down to the plain, they were given rest by the Spirit of the Lord. This is how you guided your people to make for yourself a glorious name.

Jer 16:14-15 NIV / Jer 23:7-8 NIV “So then, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 8but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”

Ez 37:19-23 NIV say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim’s hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’ 20Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Ez 38:17-23 NIV “ ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You are the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel. At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. 18This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign Lord. 19In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20The fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. 21I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. 23And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

Ez 39:25-29 NIV “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

Micah 2:12-13 NIV “I will surely gather all of you, Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people. 13The One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their King will pass through before them, the Lord at their head.”

Rev 12:1-6 NIV A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”a And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:13-17 NIV When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


Are you a Muslim?

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No, I'm a Spiritual Israelite.

The capital mistake that Christians make in theorizing that literal Israel (which are not the descendants of Abraham at all, but are descended from the pagan Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century) are the recipients of God's promises is that they fail to understand that those promises are for Christ's and Christ's alone, and not anyone else, no matter what piece of real estate they occupy, and these Christian's obsession with Jesuit Futurism prevents them from discerning this truth:

"If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
(A true descendant of Abraham is one who belonging to Jesus by grace, not according to race.)

"For all the promises of God in (Jesus) are Yea, and in (Jesus) are Amen."
(The promises, including deliverance, restoration, and steadfast security in God, are for those who are in Jesus.)

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
(Only those who are circumcised of heart does God consider to be Spiritual Israelites because they are alive "in the spirit", not dead in their sin of rejecting it by rejecting Jesus.)

"'For they are not all Israel which are of Israel".
(Israelites who are not born-again Christians are not true Israelites in the sight of God.)

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God."
(Paul wishes peace to those who walk according to the rule of "a new creature" which is one born again in Christ, and it is to these alone that God refers to as the “Israel of God".)

Again, the failure to accept the testimony of the Scriptures that it is to those who are in Christ that the promises of God apply is the reason why many cannot discern that it is Spiritual Israel, not literal Israel, with which prophecy is concerned.

Phoneman777 said:

Again, the failure to accept the testimony of the Scriptures that it is to those who are in Christ that the promises of God apply is the reason why many cannot discern that it is Spiritual Israel, not literal Israel, with which prophecy is concerned.

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I agree that one must be born again to be a child of God, but you had said God is done with the nation Israel when he's clearly not. Why did you make that statement.

ATP said:

God is certainly not done with Israel.

Psalm 83:16-18 NIV Cover their faces with shame, Lord, so that they will seek your name. 17May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace. 18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Isa 63:7-9 NIV I will tell of the kindnesses of the Lord, the deeds for which he is to be praised, according to all the Lord has done for us—yes, the many good things he has done for Israel, according to his compassion and many kindnesses. 8He said, “Surely they are my people, children who will be true to me”; and so he became their Savior. 9In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.

Isa 63:14 NIV like cattle that go down to the plain, they were given rest by the Spirit of the Lord. This is how you guided your people to make for yourself a glorious name.

Jer 16:14-15 NIV / Jer 23:7-8 NIV “So then, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 8but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”

Ez 37:19-23 NIV say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim’s hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’ 20Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Ez 38:17-23 NIV “ ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You are the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel. At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. 18This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign Lord. 19In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20The fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. 21I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. 23And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

Ez 39:25-29 NIV “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

Micah 2:12-13 NIV “I will surely gather all of you, Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people. 13The One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their King will pass through before them, the Lord at their head.”

Rev 12:1-6 NIV A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”a And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:13-17 NIV When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


Are you a Muslim?

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I think the reason why so many believe that God is not done with Israel is because they assume that all the OT promises of God pertain to the literal descendants of Abraham. They do not. The Bible specifically says that the only descendants of Abraham to which promises pertain are those who belong to Christ: "IF ye be Christ's, THEN are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." Those who are not Christ's recieve NOTHING, therefore the people who occupy the land of ancient Israel (descendants of the pagan Khazars who cannot trace their lineage to Abraham) are there not by the power of God, but by the power of the god of this world.

James Forthwright said:

[SIZE=16pt]“By their fruit you will recognize them.” NIV (Mat 7:16)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=22pt]Israel or Isn'tReal[/SIZE] - Identifying the true Israelite people

[SIZE=16pt]But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]who once were not a people but are[/SIZE] now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
[SIZE=16pt](1Pe 2:9-10)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Holy Bible regularly refers to a particular group of people known as “the people of God”. They are also commonly called the Israelites. Their name was derived from Abraham’s grandson Jacob whose name God changed from Jacob (meaning the supplanter) to Israel (meaning he will rule as/with God).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt] “Israel” is[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] mentioned 2,810 times in the Bible. They are unquestionably the main characters throughout the sacred scriptures so it behooves us as Christian believers to fervently study and fully understand exactly who these Israelite people are.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now the common consensus among many/most Christians today is that the Israelites are synonymous with the people known as “the Jews”. But have these believers thoroughly researched this important topic for themselves or are they merely repeating what they’ve been told again and again by meaningful but, in my opinion, misguided Bible teachers, pastors and commentators?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One important aspect that is often overlooked is the fact that not all of the various descendents of Abraham were of the divinely blessed lineage. First of all, there were the children of Sarah’s handmaid Hagar, i.e., the Ishmaelites, and the children of the other wives of Abraham who became the ancestors of the modern Arab nations. There were also six other sons born by Abraham’s wife Keturah (Gen. 25:1-2) who, biblically speaking, play only minor roles.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Abraham’s son Isaac was the only seed that was to receive the blessings and inheritance. (Gen. 25:5)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The curious case of Jacob/Israel’s twin brother, Esau[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now Esau was the first-born (by a matter of mere seconds before his twin brother Jacob’s birth) was the favorite son of his father Isaac. However, God in His divine omniscience hated this rebellious child but loved his brother Jacob instead. (Malachi 1:1-4, Romans 9:13) God foreknew the brash and insolent spirit that was manifest in Esau and so God cursed Esau and his descendants who became known as the Edomites.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The meaning of the word "Edom" is[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]RED[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt].[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Strong’s Concordance Number H123 (I’ll explain the significance of this particular color later.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]"I[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]t is of interest to note that FOUR TIMES in the 36th chapter of Genesis we are told that ESAU IS EDOM. The territory in which they dwelt became known as Idumea, (the Greek form of the name `Edom'), and thus the Edomites were also known as Idumeans." --Frank W. Dowsett, "The Enemy Within", Chapter 3[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Idumea was situated near Mt. Seir near the southern extremity of the Dead Sea and their language differed little from Hebrew. These infamous Edomite neighbors of the eventual Land of Israel became Israel's perennial adversaries causing much havoc and mayhem for them throughout biblical history. Accounts from the Edomites hindering the entrance of the Israelites to the Promised Land[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]([/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]Num. 20:14-21) [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]to utterly wicked characters such as Herod the Great (the King of the Jews/Judea) who instigated the slaughter of the infants in Bethlehem in an attempt to kill Jesus as a new-born child. As well as his grandson King Herod who murdered John the Baptist and consented to Christ’s crucifixion, put the apostle James to death and cast the apostle Peter in prison were of this Satanic Edomite stock. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Note: that after the return from the Babylonian & Assyrian captivities the land of Palestine, as in the First Century A.D. (as well as today), was rife with Edomites and other non-Israelite tribes who had infiltrated the Levant region during the times of Israelite captivity (Ezra 4:1-2). Many of these people “claimed to be Jews” living in Judea for several generations. These Israelite imposters held many prominent positions in the land of Israel such as priests, scribes and rulers but had no direct relation to the blessed bloodline of Jacob/Israel whatsoever.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Dr. William Smith, in his "New Testament History" (pages 58-71) says;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]"The Idumeans had been conquered and brought over to Judaism by John[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Hyrcanus (130 B.C.), and from the time of their conversion they remained[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]constant to their new religion, looking upon Jerusalem as their mother city, claiming for themselves the name of Jews".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Even today, there is a significant portion of Jews who are evidently of Edomite stock:[/SIZE]

"There is Edom [Esau is called Edom in Genesis 36:8. And Edom is in 'Modern Jewry' "Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41.

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Many Christians today believe that "bless them that bless you/curse them that curse you" means God will bless those that bless literal Israel and curse those who curse Literal Israel, but that is because they parrot popular sound bytes they hear in church or read in the writings of those who subscribe to Jesuit Futurism/Plymouth brethren Dispensationalism. The Biblical fact is that God said that to Abraham and to those who would trust in the God of Abraham, Jesus Christ, NOT TO LITERAL ISRAEL, who are of their father the devil

Likewise, "and In thee all the families of the earth shall be blessed" refers to Jesus Christ incarnate Who was yet in the loins of Abraham, NOT LITERAL ISRAEL.

When people finally recognize that the promises of the OT to Israel pertain only to those that belong to Christ and are the true "seed of Abraham" (Galatians 3:29 KJV), they will give up their sad devotion to Jesuit Futurism and modern day Protestant errors that stem from it, and focus on the true issue of end time prophecy, which is Spiritual Israel, the church and the Antichrist who yet sits in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.

Phoneman777 said:

I think the reason why so many believe that God is not done with Israel is because they assume that all the OT promises of God pertain to the literal descendants of Abraham. They do not. The Bible specifically says that the only descendants of Abraham to which promises pertain are those who belong to Christ: "IF ye be Christ's, THEN are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." Those who are not Christ's recieve NOTHING, therefore the people who occupy the land of ancient Israel (descendants of the pagan Khazars who cannot trace their lineage to Abraham) are there not by the power of God, but by the power of the god of this world.

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I can agree with that. John 3:3.
What I'm saying is that God is not done with future Israel.
He will protect them in the tribulation, but it's still their choice to accept Christ.

The reason Christ protects Jews in the end times, even though most are not born again is because................of love. it's that simple.

Rom 2:4 NIV Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

I agree that God is not "done" with Israel in the sense that God has not cut them off and he still desires them to come to faith in Jesus Christ. Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that God has not rejected national Israel and that if they come to faith they can be grafted back in. I do NOT believe that God has future unique purposes for national Israel above and beyond other nations. Paul also makes it clear that God does not make national distinctions any more due to his work in Christ:

“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”” (Romans 10:12–13, ESV)

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Many come to the view that God has a special plan to save all of Israel in an end times event from a passage at the end of Romans 11. Let's take a look at this passage to see if this is, in fact, what the passage is teaching.

“Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;” (Romans 11:13–26, ESV)

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In my opinion, this passage is not teaching a special plan for Israel to save the nation in the end times. So what is Paul saying? Look at the overall context. Paul is writing about how God is reaching out to the Gentile people and bringing them into the olive tree by faith in Christ. Paul says that this ministry to the Gentiles is to "make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them." He goes on to say that this initial rejection or hardening is bringing about the salvation of the world, however, God will accept the Jewish person if they come to faith so the Gentiles should not be arrogant in their acceptance. So, the progression looks like this...

Israel hardened -> Gentiles saved by faith -> Israel jealous -> some Israelites saved

This is how Paul sees his ministry and God's work. We are in a period when Gentiles are entering in the Kingdom by faith in Christ which is to make Israelites jealous so they too will put their faith in Christ and also enter the Kingdom of God. This will continue until the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Then Paul says "And in this way, all Israel will be saved." What does Paul mean by "in this way" and "all Israel." Well, first, I think it is clear that he does not mean "every Israelite." Paul has already made the argument that many Israelites have rejected the Gospel to their own destruction and that not every Israelite will be saved. So, this had led some to believe Paul is speaking about a future Israel and the whole nation coming to salvation in the end times. Personally, I don't see anything here that would indicate this and it really doesn't flow at all with what Paul is talking about. Here is what I think Paul is saying:

"And in this way" (ὃυτως) all Israel will be saved. The word houtos is often used to portray the manner in which something is accomplished. For instance, this word is used many times in the NT such as Matthew 5:12 where Jesus says that people who follow him should rejoice when they are persecuted for "in this way" or "in this manner" they persecuted the prophets before them. I think Paul is saying, "This is the manner" by which all Israelites or every Israelite will be saved. Thus, Paul is not talking about the entire nation being saved some day in the end times. Rather he is talking about the means by which God has chosen to bring the national Israelite to faith in Christ. Every Israelite that comes to faith in Christ will do so because they see the Gentiles bring brought into relationship with God by grace through faith in Jesus. It is out of this jealousy to come back and enjoy the relationship with God they once had and now they see many Gentiles experiencing that they will come to faith.

In sum, Paul is speaking about God's general plan to bring Israelites to faith, not a special plan for national Israel in the end times nor is it about saving the entire nation in the end times. It is talking about an initial hardening that opened the door to Gentiles which then would make Israel jealous so they might repent and God might have mercy on them. All Israelites who come to faith in Christ will do so as a result of this plan of God. That, I believe is what Paul is talking about...the means by which some of Israel will be saved. All Israelites who come to salvation will do so as a result of this plan of hardening -> Gentiles accepted -> Israelite jealousy -> Israelites accepting Christ.

[SIZE=12pt]The Church is now the Israel of God. Thus has she been given the attributes of the same.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Israel was said to be a peculiar people of God, a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. The Church of Christ is given all the same attributes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Though many of Israel would not be God’s people, yet the number of the children of Israel would be as the sand of the sea. This would be accomplished when those who were not called God’s people, should be called the sons of the living God. The Church is composed of those who were not the people of God, who became the people of God. They are the children of promise that are counted for the seed, which are the children of God. They are no longer strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints and of the very household of God. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Deut 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1 Pet 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As Israel was called to be a holy people unto God, so the Church is called to be a holy people unto God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Deut 4:20 But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]AS Israel were a people of inheritance to God, so the Church are a people of inheritance to God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As the Lord was the shepherd of Israel, so the Lord is the shepherd of the Church.[/SIZE]



[SIZE=12pt]Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As Israel was saved with everlasting salvation, so the Church is saved with eternal salvation.[/SIZE]



[SIZE=12pt]Lev 26:11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Exod 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary;that I may dwell among them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Exod 29:44 And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to me in the priest's office.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]46 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As God placed His temple in the midst of Israel, that He might dwell among them, so Christ became the living temple and dwelt among us. The Church is connected to God through His Son Jesus Christ in a way far superior to that capable of being so during the old covenant dispensation. God became one of us, and therefore the living temple of God in human flesh, of which the Church is the body. Now all who are in Christ are truly literal flesh and blood children of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Isa 54: 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hosea 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As God was an husband to the nation of Israel, so now is the Church married to God in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Again it is in a far superior way that the Church is betrothed to God in Christ. As a man and a woman become one flesh in marriage, so humanity and God became one flesh in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who literally became one with our human flesh in order to live the life we could not live, and die the death we could not die. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Thus all who are in Christ are the literal flesh and blood children of God. These things the old covenant nation of Israel only pointed to, have been accomplished upon us, the new covenant Israel of God. PRAISE GOD’S PURE, RIGHTEOUS, HOLY, UNDEFILED, AND AWESOME NAME IN AND THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST FOR OUR UNDESERVED SALVATION AND EXALTATION AS THE LITERAL SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Now all who are in Christ are the Israel of God, whether Jew or Gentile. Now all those who reject the same are none of His, and have no part of the kingdom of God or the gospel of the same, whether Jew or Gentile.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.[/SIZE]