Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Taken said:
Why would there be an issue if a man died in Belief before Christ Bodily died, concerning a mans soul going to Paradise?

God Bless,
Taken

--Hebrews 9:16-17 is proof the thief was not under the NT gospel therefore not an example of NT gospel salvation.
--under the OT law they did not have the shed blood of Christ to take away all sin so they could totally be justified Hebrews 9:22
--therefore under the OT law they had no such thing as baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins as we are accountable to
--so the thief is not saved as we are today under the NT law. Salvation came by different laws/commands under the OT law.
--the NT does not teach men are saved by belief only. The thief argument is used by those that adhere to Luther's faith only-ism in an attempt to find away to get around the necessity of water baptism. And there is no certainty the thief had not been baptized by John, that is an assumption.

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Grams said:
Eph.2;
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The bible teaches us times are now different..

Before ...... works were needed.....

But now ............ we no longer need to them. The Cross saved us........Thank You JESUS..

Ages to come.......... I guess we will know when it is here...... it will be different.

The phrase "not of works" refers to works of merit by which one could boast. It does not refer to obedience to the will of God.

Grams · May 8, 2018

Yes ! I know......

But in this time we no longer need to do works.

Back before the Cross things were way different........

Now you no longer need do a lot of different things....... as in the past.

Now you are saved by Faith [in the cross. What JESUS did for us ]] Belief and being a good Christian....

Of course we all sin........ We are human beings........

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Grams said:
Yes ! I know......

But in this time we no longer need to do works.

Back before the Cross things were way different........

Now you no longer need do a lot of different things....... as in the past.

Now you are saved by Faith [in the cross. What JESUS did for us ]] Belief and being a good Christian....

Of course we all sin........ We are human beings........

No one can be saved if they do not obey. The disobedient, unrighteous will be lost.

John says he that continues to NOT do righteousness continues to NOT be of God 1 John 3:10

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
(1) That's true, but the good and bad are going in two different directions Ernest. (Bema seat and Great White Throne)
(2.) That's right He didn't. Jesus will remember the thief.
(3.) Was not the thief dying on the cross when he believed?

1) all, good and evil, will be in the same place for judgment, that place being before the judgement seat of Christ - 1 Corinthians 5:10

2) Yes Jesus will remember the thief but the thief was not saved under the gospel for the gospel.

3) the thief and Christ were both alive and under the OT law when Christ promised the thief paradise. Since the NT would not come into effect until some point AFTER Christ died, (Hebrews 9:16-17) the thief cannot be an example of NT gospel salvation.

Heb 13:8 said:
No, only the blood of Christ saves. You get baptized in H2O without belief in your heart, and all you'll be is a cliché with drenched clothes.

Water baptism is the place where the blood of Christ washes away sins:

1) John says Christ washed us from our sins in His own blood, Revelation 1:5
2) that blood that washes away our sins was shed in Christ's death John 19:34
3) man therefore must have a way into the death of Christ where His blood was shed so it can wash away sins
4) Romans 6:3-5 one is baptized into the death of Christ whereby baptism gives access to Christ's shed blood so it then washes away all sins
5) it is NOT faith only, NOT any sinner's prayer, NOT any invention of man that puts one into Christ's death but baptism.
6) one therefore has NOT obeyed the gospel (2 Thess 1:8) until he has been water baptized where the old man of sin DIES, is BURIED in a watery grace, resurrected up from that watery grave to walk in newness of life. So water baptism is the gospel, the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

Heb 13:8 said:
Ernest, believing in Rom 10:9 only comes once and then you are sealed until redemption. Remember, we serve a God of peace not confusion.

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people.

2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

If the Christian does not continue to believe he will fall from the sealed group "Christian". The group will continue to be sealed but not the individual who fell from the group. The Bible does not teach that individuals are unconditionally sealed outside of the group.

Heb 13:80 No Ernest said:
God's love that saves is conditional:
1) Jude commands "Keep yourselves in the love of God". Such a command is nonsense if it were impossble for the Christian to fall away from God's love. Note also is is the Christian's responsibility and accountability to stay in God's love and NOT God causing Christian's to stay in His love against their will.
2) John 14:21 being in God's love is conditional upon keeping God's commands.

Heb 13:8 said:

A - Admit you're a sinner
B - Believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead
C - Confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord

Click to expand...

One or two verses does not exhaust all there is needed to know about salvation. When one considers "all God's counsel" (Acts 20:27) one finds it takes hearing God's word, believing that word in obedience by repenting of sins (Luke 13:3) confession (Matthew 10:32-33) and submitting to baptism (Mark 16:16) then one is in a saved state. And to remain in that saved state one must do good works (Eph 2:10) keep Christ's works (Rev 2:28) being faithful unto death Rev 2:10).

Heb 13:8 said:

Right, we can't earn His free gift, so why are you working to keep it?

Click to expand...

You do not or refuse to understand that free gifts can come with conditions and meeting the conditions do not cannot earn what has already been freely offered. The word charis translated grace means both favor extended and favor returned. God extended favor to man by sending His son to die on the cross. Man returns the favor by obeying Christ (Hebrews 5:9). Returning a favor does not earn God's free gift.

From an earlier post of mine:

Plenty of Bible examples of God's grace having conditions attached and meeting the conditions did not, could not earn God's free gift:

Exodus 16:
God owed the Israelites nothing but because of His grace God sent them the free gift of manna. Yet the free gift came with the condition of the Israelites doing the work of gathering the manna. Had the Israelites not done the work of gathering the manna (faith only) then they would have remained hungry. Therefore they must have done the work of gathering the manna in order to receive this free gift from God yet the work of gathering earned them nothing.

2 Kings 5:
God did not owe Naaman anything but because of God's grace He would heal Naaman's disease. Yet this free gift came to Naaman with the condition that he do the work of going and dipping in the Jordan River 7 times. Had Naaman not done the work of dipping (faith only) then he would have maintained his disease. Therefore Naaman must have done the work of dipping in order to receive this free gift from God yet the work of dipping earned Naaman nothing.

John 9:
Jesus did not owe the blind man anything but because of His grace Jesus would heal the man's blindness. Yet this free gift came to the blind man with the condition he go and wash in the pool of Siloam. Had the blind man not done the work of going and washing in pool (faith only), he would have remained blind. Therefore the blind man must have done the work of going and washing in order to receive this free gift from Christ yet the work of going and dipping earned him nothing.

Matthew 19:
Jesus did not owe the rich man anything but because of His grace He offered the rich man the free gift of eternal life. Yet this free gift came with conditions of obeying God's commands. The rich man met those conditions except for one...go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. The rich man did not obey, did not do this work of righteousness thereby refusing the free gift that had been offered him. He therefore must have obeyed in order to receive the free gift Christ had offered to him for free yet his obedience in no way would have earned him anything.

Acts 2:
Peter, in his sermon, offered his listeners the free gift of salvation which is a result of God's grace. This free gift came with the condition they call upon the name of the Lord/repent and be baptized, verses 21, 38. Had they not done this work (faith only) they would have remained lost in their unremitted sins. Yet to receive this free gift of God required they conditionally call upon the name of the Lord/repent and be baptized and their obedience in doing this in no way would have earned them God's free gift.

Joshua 6:
God would give the Israelites the city of Jericho as a gift. Yet this free gift came with many conditions including the requirement of the Israelites to march around the city. Had the Israelites done no work (faith only) then they would have not received this free gift of God. Therefore Israel must have obeyed in doing those works in order to receive this free gift of God and doing these works in no way earned them the city.

Jn 6:
Jesus told His hearers He would give (it's free) the gift of everlasting life. Yet this free gift came with the condition of laboring. Had Christ's hearers had done no laboring (faith only) they would not receive this free gift. Therefore they must labor to receive the free gift of everlasting life and their laboring in no way would earned them everlasting life.

Rom 6:
Paul said those Romans had been freed from sin/justified, a free gift of God, v23. Yet this free gift came with the condition of obeying from the heart that form of doctrine. Had they had done no obeying (faith only) they would have remained in their sins/unjustified. Therefore they must have obeyed from the heart in order to receive the free gift of God and obeying in no way earned them God's free gift.

Rev 22:
The waters of life are freely given, a free gift that is made available to all/whosoever. Yet this free gift comes with the condition that one must obey in coming and taking of this water of life. If one does nothing (faith only) he will never get the free gift of the water of life therefore one must do the obedient works in coming and taking of this water and those works in no way earns one this water of life.

Acts 10:
Salvation was a free gift that came to the Gentiles by God's grace. Yet this free gift came with the condition of 'working righteousness', v35. If the Gentiles had done nothing (faith only) they never would have been accepted with God. Therefore the Gentiles must have worked righteousness (obey the command to be water baptized) to be saved yet this working righteousness would earn the Gentiles nothing.

Hebrews 11:7 the saving of Noah's house was by grace but God's grace conditionally required Noah do the work of building the ark. The work in building the ark therefore did not earn the saving of his house. Favor extended, favor returned > charis

BreadOfLife · May 8, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
deeper hole? BOL, there's no holes where Christ is concerned, only freedom.

Matt 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

God bless.

And the holes YOU dig are those of Scriptural perversion.
You completely ignore Scripture and history where they pertain to the Eucharist and insert your own bizarre interpretations.

St. Peter spoke wisely and prophetically of people like you . . .
2 Pet. 3:16
He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people twist, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Grams · May 8, 2018

Ernest T. Bass said:
No one can be saved if they do not obey. The disobedient, unrighteous will be lost.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John says he that continues to NOT do righteousness continues to NOT be of God 1 John 3:10

You need to understand some thing , that a lot of people take for granted...

You need to know who is speaking ? And to whom they are speaking..

There is a time past !!!!!!! But Now !!!!!!!!!! And Ages to come....

different need ...........

JESUS made things different for us....... People , [ lots ] do not understand this !

Grams · May 8, 2018

This is from our church.....
There was to much to post and it would not allow me......
So you need to go take a look.......... Thanks,

http://www.rightlydividing.org/secondarypages/12REASONSFORETERNALSECURITY.htm

Taken · May 8, 2018

Reggie Belafonte said:
Paradise is not in Heaven it's here on earth, as the Bible points this fact out that it was.

Eh....not yet.

When one comes to Christ Jesus, as your Lord and Saviour, you have just made it into Paradise,

Well sort of...
Saved souls departed out from dead body's...
Yes.
Saved souls still in their living body's....their Souls....SHALL BE/ Go to Paradise.

because your Soul is raptured up in with the Holy Spirit

Saved souls ARE taken "UP" to Paradise, to wait for their bodies to be raptured and changed. (2 Cor 12).

and that thief knew Jesus and who he truly is in fact full on, as did Jesus the same because he knows such in fact.

Paradise WAS in Hades, sustaining the Saved Souls of men, with Abraham, Waiting to be taken "UP" to Heaven. The "Waiting" ended once Jesus' Soul went to Hades...and Left...As He is before all things.

Now we will still have to deal with all the crap that comes our way sure to be sure but the Holy Spirit elevates us up so we can deal with such on a much higher level than others who are not, because we have faith in Jesus and that's the blessing of paradise, it's wonderful it's Awesome !

Sure.

Fact is Jesus came to restore this Paradise that was lost to Adam and Eve.

Well, sure...but I would say it a bit different.
Still saying, The Tree of Life and Paradise have a connection.

One can now be in the true understanding of 'Judah' (a people of God) 'Abiding' as now the thief was with Jesus at this time.
But the true understanding of 'Israel' (a Servant of God) should be, because one is 'born again' in the Holy Spirit, but this is called a born again Christian, not called Israel nowadays but it is in fact just that, but in the finished work of the NT under Jesus Christ Grace.
As is such with Judah being the people of God being the water baptise Christians.

I generally agree.

The Jews were tricked by their so called mob, who were not of the Holy Spirit at all but of mans works and Satan the Golden Calf etc types steering them away from Jesus with every cunning trick they could muster. just as it is nowadays with many trying to deceive you away for Jesus Christ. like they do claiming that the State now named israel is of one and the same name Israel given to Jacob, when in fact it is not. because Jesus is the King of Israel in fact. you can't have two masters can you, so why run to such rubbish.
To say that the State of Israel is Israel, is to reject Jesus Christ in fact, no one could be so stupid!
And idiots are putting their blind faith in mans works with such and all the rapture madness peddled nowadays is Satanic leading people astray from Jesus the only one you must follow.

No where does it claim that the thief went to Heaven, but he was not against Jesus so the door is open to him, but that's not for any of us to say such but he did not go to hell.

Actually, the thief's body went to the grave...
And his living soul, went to Paradise, in Hades, with Abraham, and so also that is where Jesus' living soul went to preach to those with Abraham, and why Jesus said to the thief...

Luke 23:43
..TO Day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

God Bless,
Taken

Heb 13:8 · May 8, 2018

Ernest T. Bass said:
1) all, good and evil, will be in the same place for judgment, that place being before the judgement seat of Christ - 1 Corinthians 5:10

No Ernest, the Bema seat of Christ is reserved for believers only. Nonbelievers are reserved for the Great White Throne Rev 20:5, Rev 20:11-15.

Ernest T. Bass said:
2) Yes Jesus will remember the thief but the thief was not saved under the gospel for the gospel.

No, Jesus brought hope to the thief not condemnation. Paradise is the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:4.

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise

Ernest T. Bass said:
3) the thief and Christ were both alive and under the OT law when Christ promised the thief paradise.

Then Jesus lied and did not promise the thief paradise.

Ernest T. Bass said:
Water baptism is the place where the blood of Christ washes away sins:

No Ernest, the cross on calvary is the place where the blood of Christ washes away sins, the place where they drove nails into his hands and feet. Haven't you watched the movies? God bless

Ernest T. Bass said:
If the Christian does not continue to believe he will fall from the sealed group "Christian". The group will continue to be sealed but not the individual who fell from the group. The Bible does not teach that individuals are unconditionally sealed outside of the group.

Ernest, either you are born again or not. Being "born again" lasts until redemption. Why are u making so hard for yourself.

Heb 13:8 · May 8, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
And the holes YOU dig are those of Scriptural perversion. You completely ignore Scripture and history where they pertain to the Eucharist and insert your own bizarre interpretations.

St. Peter spoke wisely and prophetically of people like you . . .
2 Pet. 3:16
He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people twist, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So have you accepted Christ as your Lord and savior yet?

Jesus loves you BOL, and He wants you to surrender fully.

God bless

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Grams said:
You need to understand some thing , that a lot of people take for granted...

You need to know who is speaking ? And to whom they are speaking..

There is a time past !!!!!!! But Now !!!!!!!!!! And Ages to come....

different need ...........

JESUS made things different for us....... People , [ lots ] do not understand this !

The idea a man can be saved while being disobedient to Christ is antithetical to the NT gospel as anything can be.

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
No Ernest, the Bema seat of Christ is reserved for believers only. Nonbelievers are reserved for the Great White Throne Rev 20:5, Rev 20:11-15.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in hisbody, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 1 Cor 5:10. There will be one judgment with one Judge that all will appear before.

Heb 13:8 said:
No, Jesus brought hope to the thief not condemnation. Paradise is the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:4.

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise

The thief will be in paradise but his salvation occurred while the OT law was still in effect therefore not an example of a person today is saved under the gospel. Hebrews 9:16-17

Heb 13:8 said:
Then Jesus lied and did not promise the thief paradise.

You are putting words in my mouth that I never said and the reason you do that is your argument about the thief is in error, totally contrary to the Bible.

Hebrews 9:16-17 proves the thief was not saved under the NT gospel but under the OT law. Therefore he is not saved in the same way men today are.

Heb 13:8} No Ernest said:
I have you book chapter and verse that proves my position. You say "NO" to those Bible verses and in turn ask me if I watch some movie. Obviously your argument is dead and is not valid but some people love beating a dead horse anyway.

Heb 13:8 said:

Ernest, either you are born again or not. Being "born again" lasts until redemption. Why are u making so hard for yourself.

Click to expand...

You are making ideas up out of thin air again. No verse says once one is saved he is always unconditionally saved an you have not proven otherwise. There is no cheap grace, no OSAS, no unconditional salvation.

Reggie Belafonte · May 8, 2018

Taken said:
Eh....not yet.

Well sort of...
Saved souls departed out from dead body's...
Yes.
Saved souls still in their living body's....their Souls....SHALL BE/ Go to Paradise.

Saved souls ARE taken "UP" to Paradise, to wait for their bodies to be raptured and changed. (2 Cor 12).

Paradise WAS in Hades, sustaining the Saved Souls of men, with Abraham, Waiting to be taken "UP" to Heaven. The "Waiting" ended once Jesus' Soul went to Hades...and Left...As He is before all things.

Sure.

Well, sure...but I would say it a bit different.
Still saying, The Tree of Life and Paradise have a connection.

I generally agree.

Actually, the thief's body went to the grave...
And his living soul, went to Paradise, in Hades, with Abraham, and so also that is where Jesus' living soul went to preach to those with Abraham, and why Jesus said to the thief...

Luke 23:43
..TO Day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

God Bless,
Taken

The thing is that Adam and Eve were in Paradise here on earth and they fell into the curse because the Serpent cunningly leading them astray and Jesus came to restore that Paradise and crush the Serpents head.
The Kingdom of God is Gods Paradise here on earth.

The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto to a certain King, which made a marriage for his Son. Mat 22

Mat 21:1-45 Kingdom of God.

Ernest T. Bass · May 8, 2018

Grams said:
This is from our church.....
There was to much to post and it would not allow me......
So you need to go take a look.......... Thanks,
http://www.rightlydividing.org/secondarypages/12REASONSFORETERNALSECURITY.htm

The author of the article in the link pulled many verses out of context and forced the idea of OSAS into them.

There are two sides to salvation:
1) a required faithfulness on part of the Christian to Christ and His word, Rev 2:10; 1 Cor 4:1-2
2) God's faithfulness to the group called Christian, Heb 13:5. God will always be faithful to this group whether you & I are in this group or not.

Those that hold to the false man made teaching of faith only will pull the verses that deal with 2 above and teist those verses into teaching the fallacy of OSAS while they do not want to have to deal with the verses that require faithfulness on part of the Christian. I have debated many time with those that hold to OSAS and watch as they attack the present tense verbs, conditional statements, qualifying statement and any verses that require faithfulness on part of the Christian.

Example;

John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

Verse 27 speaks to the required faithfulness of the Christian in a continues (present tense) hearing and following of Christ. Jesus qualifies who are of his sheep that being those that hear and follow. Therefore one cannot be of His sheep if one is not hearing and following.

Verses 28 the pronouns 'them' and 'they' refer to those that faithfully continue to hear and follow Christ. As long as the Christian is faithful in his hearing and following he will be of those that shall never perish. If one quits hearing and following he is no longer a sheep of Christ in not meeting the present tense qualifications of hearing and following therefore will not be of "them" that shall never perish.

Therefore in John 10:27-28 we have both required sides of salvation as I described above.

Those that hold to OSAS will rip verse 28 from the Bible removing it from all other Bible contexts and twist it into teaching OSAS when such an idea is not even remotely to be found in the context.

Phil 1:5 "For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;"
Phil 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

Verse 6 is ripped from the context to promote OSAS. Paul was confident God would continue a good work in them for they had remained in fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now. Those Philippian Christians had continue to hear and follow Christ from the 1st day until now. Again, both required sides salvation as I described above.

There were some Christians in Galatia who unlike those in Philippi did not faithfully remain in the gospel, Galatians 1:6-7. Paul does NOT say God would continue a good work in them until the day of Jesus Christ, but instead was afraid of them that his labor he spent on them was in vain Galatians 4:11, that had quit obeying the gospel truth Galatians 5:7 and they had fallen (past tense) from grace Galatians 5:4. With those fallen Galatians we do not have both sides required to be saved.

Triumph1300 · May 8, 2018

Ernest T. Bass said:
The idea a man can be saved while being disobedient to Christ is antithetical to the NT gospel as anything can be.

You are never disobedient?

Heb 13:8 · May 8, 2018

Ernest T. Bass said:
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in hisbody, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor 5:10. There will be one judgment with one Judge that all will appear before.

What gives you the impression that 2 Cor 5:1-10 is also about nonbelievers. Believers are written all over these passages.

Ernest T. Bass said:
The thief will be in paradise but his salvation occurred while the OT law was still in effect therefore not an example of a person today is saved under the gospel. Hebrews 9:16-17

So not one OT saint will be in paradise? Either he's in paradise or not. You're trying to find loop holes to make works salvation fit, and you sound ridiculous.

Ernest T. Bass said:
You are putting words in my mouth that I never said and the reason you do that is your argument about the thief is in error, totally contrary to the Bible.

Hebrews 9:16-17 proves the thief was not saved under the NT gospel but under the OT law. Therefore he is not saved in the same way men today are.

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make. They're not saved in the same way meaning what?? All the OT saints go to hell??

Taken · May 9, 2018

Grams said:
Yes ! I know......

But in this time we no longer need to do works.

Back before the Cross things were way different........

Now you no longer need do a lot of different things....... as in the past.

Now you are saved by Faith [in the cross. What JESUS did for us ]] Belief and being a good Christian....

Agree

Of course we all sin........ We are human beings........

Here I would expand your statement.
We can agree we are all born in sin.
Naturally born without Beliefe in God. Naturally Born without BEING Righteous.

Thus UNTIL WE, while still IN OUR NATURAL SINFUL STATE, "CHOOSE" to become WASHED of our Sins....WE do so BY CHOOSING TO BELIEVE. And CHOOSING TO "CONFESS" our Belief "TO" the Lord, "OF" our Belif "IN" "HIM".

Yes we are still Human, However, As the OLD was done away with, SO ALSO, is the OLD WAY OF "CONTINUALLY proving our Belief, BY and Through Obedience TO THE LAW and DOING Works.

OUR Election TO Belief IN the Lord, and Confess TO the Lord.....Changes Everything.

The Works, as you mentioned......But ALSO...
"The "Comission" of sins.

We did not SUBJECT ourselves to the OLD Covenant of WHAT "defined" SIN., According TO THE LAW.

We Subjected Ourselves TO: "Christ the Lord Jesus".

SIN AGAINST Christ, IS the SIN of "DISBELIEF" In Jesus Being the Christ, God in the Flesh, and His Heavenly Father.

Once that IS Resolved.....AND Forgiven...AND the Body of Sin Crucified....AND the Body Washed and Sanctified...........

There IS NO OTHER SIN a man Can "Commit" AGAINST God.

The Ability FOR a man TO NOT SIN....
Be it according TO the OT LAW....OR
Be it according TO rejecting Belief In Christ...
CAN NOT BE "MAINTAINED"....ALONE by the man himself.

OT men who believed AND was subject TO the Law.....and FAITHFUL.....were KEPT IN FAITH, BY the Power of God.

NT men and forward who believed/believe AND subjected themselves TO Christ..."ARE" KEPT IN FAITH, BY the "INDWELLING" Power/Spirit of God.

IN Short ~ A man who HAS subjected himself via Confession TO Christ, IS FORGIVEN His Sins, and KEPT IN Belief, VIA the Power of the INDWELLING Spirit of God, THAT, He sins NO MORE. (1 John 3:9)

God Bless,
Taken

Taken · May 9, 2018

Ernest T. Bass said:
--Hebrews 9:16-17 is proof the thief was not under the NT gospel therefore not an example of NT gospel salvation.
--under the OT law they did not have the shed blood of Christ to take away all sin so they could totally be justified Hebrews 9:22
--therefore under the OT law they had no such thing as baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins as we are accountable to
--so the thief is not saved as we are today under the NT law. Salvation came by different laws/commands under the OT law.
--the NT does not teach men are saved by belief only. The thief argument is used by those that adhere to Luther's faith only-ism in an attempt to find away to get around the necessity of water baptism. And there is no certainty the thief had not been baptized by John, that is an assumption.

You are concerned with challenging "IF" what was BEING TAUGHT, (a New Covenant) was IN EFFECT, for men Learning ABOUT (and IF "THEY" the New Covenant.....BEFORE Christ Jesus, ACTUALLY Died.

Do you consider, Jesus IS the Lamb of God?
Do you consider, Jesus IS the Word of God?
Do you consider, while the foundation of the Earth was being laid (before mankind was Formed out of the Earth)....that Lucifer KILLED the Word of God? Physically? No.

He KILLED the Word of God.....BY....Stating A LIE, that was IN CONFLICT with the Word of God.

John 8:44
....a murderer and liar from the beginning.

What was his LIE?
Isa 14:13. 14:14
....that he would rise ABOVE God...

What did he KILL?
John 8:44
....the Word of God.

Jesus was the Word of God IN the Beginning...and the Word of God IN the NT.

Jesus DOES NOT Change. He is the SAME forever.

Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, to day, and forever.

Faithful men in the OT were accounted as Righteous.
Faithful men in the NT and forward WHO believe and Kept in belief VIA the Indwelling Power of God, ARE forever accounted Righteous.

NO man can be an occupant of the Lords Kingdom, UNLESS, the man become Born Again.

If that was ONLY EFFECTED, "AFTER" men "WITNESSED" Jesus hanging dead on the Cross....you would have to ELIMINATE the possibility for men of the OT to become BORN AGAIN....

Men "WITNESSING" Jesus' bodily DEATH, was a FULFILLMENT of Prophecy.....However WE are given Historical Knowledge AND Additional Knowledge....

The Word of God was KILLED....before mankind was created.

The Word of God was Centuries later...revealed; In the Flesh, Called by the Name; Jesus, Called by the Title; the Son of God.

So Still I disagree with you, that your argument is valid.

God Bless,
Taken

Ernest T. Bass · May 9, 2018

Triumph1300 said:
You are never disobedient?

No one here is perectly sinless but God does not expect perfect sinlessness but a faithful obedience which includes confession and repentance of sins for times when one fails.

Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

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