My reply; as #26.
No one goes to heaven, Jesus said so, John 3:13, +
As for the Sixth Seal, several prophesies say the Lord will not be seen on that Day. Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11, Jeremiah 25:30
In John 3, Jesus was talking to Nicodemus. At that time no one could go to heaven. Verse 5 is the key.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, except that a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. This does not say heaven, the coming Kingdom of God is the Second Coming to establish God on the throne for 1000 years. But it is the Lamb who will reign in Jerusalem. Where the throne is positioned we are not told. Speculation would be the center or North Pole. Geographically it would be the center of heaven, earth, and whatever is under the earth. But that is Bible, and contradicts current science, that Satan has deceived us with.
Jesus came for one central purpose. It was the Atonement on the Cross. That accomplished the birth of the spirit. Now the only way to he restored is to actually go to heaven. If we had to stay here on earth it would just be the physical birth of water. Any spiritual encounter on earth is one of the Holy Spirit. That is not being born again of our own spirit. That is a temporary, borrowed substitute. Even those dead in Christ have not been born again yet. That is what happens when the 5th seal is opened. The act of the second birth only comes at one point in time, with the Lamb, Jesus Christ causing that birth to happen. The whole of the church, like Paul said we are all caught up at one time, along with those already dead. John said the dead under the alter get the second spiritual birth (the robe of white), and that more souls would follow. It was the 6th seal, and those alive, would experience the second birth. But it is not on earth, it is in the heavens. Those left standing on the earth, knew they had not changed or were born again. They claimed they would not be able to withstand the judgment and wrath of God and the Lamb. Those alive in Christ would not say that. They already ascended, as Paul promised would happen.
But he seemed to contradict that when he mentioned 144K Jewish male virgins in chapter 7, as being the first fruits of a third resurrection. The first resurrection was Jesus in 30AD. The Second resurrection is the 5th and 6th seal. The third resurrection are those killed by Satan, when they get their heads cut off. That is why I asked if you have a verse that says those with their head cut off, have their names in the Lamb's book of life. Because they in the third resurrection, live for a thousand years. Do they, or their children form the army at the end of the 1000 years? Revelation 14, ends with every last human killed by two sickles, the final harvest of the earth. No one is left alive.
The 144K are either taken back out in the Trumpets or the thunderings. That is in the part John could not write about, thus the 144K contradiction has no resolution. All we know is from Revelation 14:1-5, they followed the Lamb, just like the first time with the 12 disciples.
1 Then I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s Name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers, harping with their harps.
3 And they sung as
it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the Elders: and no man could learn that song, but the hundred, forty and four thousand, which were bought from the earth.
4 These are they which are not defiled with women: for they are virgins: these follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth: these are bought from men, being the firstfruits unto God, and unto the Lamb.
5 And in their mouths was found no guile: for they are without spot before the throne of God.
These are the ones sealed by an angel between the 6th and 7th seal. They also are in the Lamb's book of life. They did not go up in the rapture of Paul. It did all happen at the same time and then there was a pause. Both Revelation 7 and 8 start out with a pause. One in heaven and one in earth. The 7th seal was this pause.
"After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the land, on the sea or on any tree."
After the earth shaking event of the 6th seal, there was a calm, the 144K were sealed. And the pause in heaven and the 7th seal immediately followed. Then the Trumpets began to sound.
The verse in Habakkuk is during the Thunderings. Psalm 18 mentions the thunderings. Jeremiah 25 could be about anything at the end of the 70 years, the Jewish people were held captive, in Babylon. If any of that chapter refers to Revelation, it would be during the thunderings because that is when God deals with the Nations directly. But until God gives us those writings on the thunderings judgment, no one knows, except John. He saw them happen, but Revelation 10:4
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: but I heard a voice from heaven, saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders have spoken, and write them not.
