Gifts Of The Spirit Are NOT Proof That You Have The Holy Spirit

Enoch111 said:

Paul started out by telling the Corinthians that they were carnal. There was a divisive party spirit within that church. So it had nothing to do with demons, but simply with the flesh -- the old Adamic sin nature. Chapter 14 is all about correcting the abuse of tongues.

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1Cor 14 is about how to use the gifts of the Spirit while keeping order in the church service. Paul says that God is a God of order, not confusion.

Prayer Warrior said:

1Cor 14 is about how to use the gifts of the Spirit while keeping order in the church service. Paul says that God is a God of order, not confusion.

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That too. But it is primarily about the false elevation of tongues over other gifts.

Enoch111 said:

That too. But it is primarily about the false elevation of tongues over other gifts.

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We can agree to disagree, but keep in mind how Paul also stresses that the prophets are to prophesy in order. His conclusion is what I stated above.

Prayer Warrior said:

I was confirmed and didn’t receive the Holy Spirit.

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@historyb is correct. When you are baptised and confirmed you receive the comforter:

Acts 8:15-18

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

historyb said:

I am not Catholic and it was down when the Church was universal, your evangelical nonsense is purely man made not from the Apostles nor from the Fathers

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In other words you have no viable reply other than kicking the player instead of the ball.

mjrhealth said:

No when they believe, nothing to do with catholic stuff. And I know, I went through all that indoctrination that Christ called me like so many out of Babylon, thank God He did.

come out of her my people, but so few listening

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Is Christ not enough for you...

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Often, people who go through the confirmation rite are not genuinely born again, and therefore end up being confirmed sinners!

Paul Christensen said:

Often, people who go through the confirmation rite are not genuinely born again, and therefore end up being confirmed sinners!

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It has no bearing on anything its just another catholic ritual. Changes nothing as regards one salvation.

Amos Ministries said:

What I am saying is the gifts of the spirit are not proof you have the holy spirit. Fruits of the sprit also include the fruit of your lips, meaning your teachings should align with the teachings of Jesus. This is the true way to determine whether you are walking in the Spirit.

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The trouble with this is that many are claiming to have the gifts of the Spirit when they have nothing of the sort, and it is obvious that their personal lives don't match their claims. A person who is genuinely filled with the Spirit and manifesting any of the true gifts, are clearly seen to demonstrate a godly life and a Christ-like nature. I think at the Judgment, it will be very surprising concerning how many people think are great Christians doing wonderful things for God, are revealed at hypocrites at heart who maintained a fine religious appearance but their hearts are far away from God.

Therefore many can claim to have the Holy Spirit and many demonstrate some version of the gifts, but it is God who knows the hearts, and Who knows who are genuinely His. We cannot evaluate a professing believer by his conduct and behaviour in Sunday when he or she is among other church members. It is how they conduct themselves at home with their wives and children, and their workmates, especially on cold Monday mornings when everything goes wrong at work.

Prayer Warrior said:

I was confirmed and didn’t receive the Holy Spirit.

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That's probably because the confirmation rite was just a man-made invention which the Holy Spirit was not involved.

Enoch111 said:

That too. But it is primarily about the false elevation of tongues over other gifts.

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Somehow I don't see anything in 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul actually said that. I think the notion is Cessationist putting words into Paul's mouth that he never said. It is one thing to reflect what the Bible actually says, and it is quite another to fit the Bible into a personal doctrine to somehow "prove" it.

Paul Christensen said:

Somehow I don't see anything in 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul actually said that.

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Well you have to be selectively choosing what is said and what is not said to avoid that conclusion. Things do not need to be state explicitly in order to be taught. So let's look at that chapter once again:

WERE THE CORINTHIANS ELEVATING TONGUES INORDINATELY?
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying (KJB)
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. (NASB)

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Enoch111 said:

Well you have to be selectively choosing what is said and what is not said to avoid that conclusion. Things do not need to be state explicitly in order to be taught. So let's look at that chapter once again:

WERE THE CORINTHIANS ELEVATING TONGUES INORDINATELY?
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying (KJB)
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. (NASB)

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

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Of course the context is the public church meeting where it is important that what is said is understood by those present. This means that the best and most effective speaker is one who is most easily understood by the hearers. It can also be said that the person who speaks in plain language that everyone can understand is more effective than someone who chants church Latin. Also it could also apply to a speaker who talks about such obscure theological principles that no one understands what he is getting at is less effective than someone who expounds the Scripture in clear and understandable language. A further example is someone who tries to explain Calculus theory to a group of non-mathematicians. He might as well be speaking a foreign language to them.

These examples are no indication that the gift of tongues is a lesser gift than prophecy. It is about the context in which each is used. A mathematician may not be proficient in writing mystery novels in the same way an author may, but that does not mean that the gift that the author has is greater in itself than the gift that the mathematician has. A mystery author's gift would not be as effective in a mathematics conference where calculus is the keynote topic, while the mathematician with a gift for calculus would be of little use in a mystery writers' conference.

It is obvious that Paul valued tongues in his personal prayer life ("I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all") but then he goes on "Yet in the church..." he would rather prophesy, because his words would have a more edifying outcome for his hearers. To say that tongues was only to be used along with interpretation and only in church meetings, is Cessationist nonsense and nothing like what Paul was teaching.

Enoch111 said:

Well you have to be selectively choosing what is said and what is not said to avoid that conclusion. Things do not need to be state explicitly in order to be taught. So let's look at that chapter once again:

WERE THE CORINTHIANS ELEVATING TONGUES INORDINATELY?
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying (KJB)
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. (NASB)

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

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But haven't you just used a selection of the chapter to support your point?

I like the phrase "Cessationist nonsense"

Amos Ministries said:

What do you think "taking the kingdom by violence' means?

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the determined....the forceful.....those with their eye on the goal to the cost of all else are entering God's kingdom.
again....the disenfranchised, marginalised ....the publicans and harlots (Matt 21:31).... those hungering and thirsting.

Prayer Warrior said:

I was confirmed and didn’t receive the Holy Spirit.

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Yes you did all do, what you didn't get is the evangelical feelings which is peddled heavily in evangelicalism

Paul Christensen said:

In other words you have no viable reply other than kicking the player instead of the ball.

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I responsed but you love your lies to much to accept any truth

historyb said:

Yes you did all do, what you didn't get is the evangelical feelings which is peddled heavily in evangelicalism

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Actually, I was confirmed years before I was saved! I received the Holy Spirit when I was born again--of the Spirit.

Prayer Warrior said:

Actually, I was confirmed years before I was saved! I received the Holy Spirit when I was born again--of the Spirit.

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Nope, you were saved the evangelicals lie unfortunately saying you having to do this or that like say a prayer and it is a lie. The ideas you hold or new and not part of real authentic Christianity through no fault of your own many believe those lies

historyb said:

Nope, you were saved the evangelicals lie unfortunately saying you having to do this or that like say a prayer and it is a lie. The ideas you hold or new and not part of real authentic Christianity through no fault of your own many believe those lies

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Well, what do you know about how and when I was saved, except what I just told you? I was saved in September of 1977 when I gave my life to Jesus Christ. Everything about my life changed at that point when I was born again.