Hell : Then the Lake of Fire

[Beebster]

Allow me to rephrase that for you.

King Jimmy's translation says. Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Why did Jesus say that? What was the purpose?

Well, he didn't say anything about saving anyone there did he?
No.
And then he went on to heal a woman of Canaan. Is she of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel?"

The lost sheep of Israel are God's Elect; his Chosen.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Rom 2:28-29)

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. (Mat 20:16)

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And this means?

It means Jesus is the truth, Jesus is the life and that no man cometh unto the Father, but by Jesus.

Not really sure what you're trying to show me there.

Let us consider exactly what Jesus said to Nicodemus.

John 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Not every one who has been born will be or were born again. That is fact.

Yup. that is a fact.

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

SHOULD..... It does not say will.

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of "should"

Let's try a second witness:

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear. (Isa 45:23)

Does "shall" work better.

By the way, that is a declaration.

Third witness:

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee SHALL bow to me, and every tongue SHALL confess to God. (Romans 14:11)

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. (John 12:47)

Of course you "believe not." You think we have to save ourselves.

Christ Jesus came to save the world.... but it has to want to be saved.

Well, you just denied two witnesses however, during this thread I've shown you at least five witnesses that say he will save all humanity.

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42)

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

It is not automatic.

No it certainly is not. There is a process to being saved.

You must know that you have to be born again?

You most certainly do.

Explain this and maybe you'll understand that:

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 18:1-3)

I only know of one being that has or ever will have “eternal life” and that is God the Father.

And that explains it all.

No it just explains that you do not understand the definition of "eternal."

Nobody goes to hell. Non-believers will be cast into the lake of fire where they will learn righteousness.

THIS IS UNSCRIPTURAL....

You have every right to feel this way since I offered an opinion without any scripture to back it up.

Stick around and just maybe Christ will open your eyes to that wonderful truth.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Well, he didn't say anything about saving anyone there did he?
No.
And then he went on to heal a woman of Canaan. Is she of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel?"

The lost sheep of Israel are God's Elect; his Chosen.

You answered your own question.... If you are so blinded as to not see Jesus coming for the lost, because they needed saving... no amount of argument will open your eyes.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Rom 2:28-29)

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. (Mat 20:16)

Can you read? Do you understand that you saying that ..."he will save all humanity."... is making Jesus telling a lie.

...

It means Jesus is the truth, Jesus is the life and that no man cometh unto the Father, but by Jesus

FACT: and repeating... Do you understand that you saying that ..."he will save all humanity."... is making Jesus telling a lie.

Not really sure what you're trying to show me there.

Yup. that is a fact.


I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of "should"

No I did not... I read that as ummmmmm?????? a suggestion not fact.

Same as I understand your chosen translation which is not so accurate after all...
from c1909 timing....(Wiki)

How Literal is the Concordant Literal Version?

______________

www.triumphofmercy.com

Since I prefer using the NKJV hand-in-hand with the Greek and Hebrew text, I never gave close attention to the literal versions. However, knowing that many are unfamiliar with the original languages, I have recommended them to others and often cited from them, including the Concordant Literal Version. However, as time passed, I began to come across more and more renderings in the CLV which were incongruous with the original text. That in turn led me to investigate the background and beliefs of A. E. Knoch and his Concordant Publishing Concern which compiled and published the CLV. As I read his writings to see his justifications for his unique renderings, it became evident to me that his primary motive in making his own translation was in order to have a Bible which would substantiate his own particular doctrinal beliefs, just as the Jehovah Witnesses did with their New World Translation.

Let's try a second witness:

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear. (Isa 45:23)

Does "shall" work better.

Absolutely, if you are making the statement to be definitive.

By the way, that is a declaration.

Third witness:

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee SHALL bow to me, and every tongue SHALL confess to God. (Romans 14:11)


Well, you just denied two witnesses however, during this thread I've shown you at least five witnesses that say he will save all humanity.

EXCEPT..... Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

And from ypour CLV preference

21 Not everyone saying to Me 'Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens." 22 Many will be declaring to Me in that day, 'Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'" 23 And then shall I be avowing to them that 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'"

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42)

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

No it certainly is not. There is a process to being saved.

You most certainly do.

Explain this and maybe you'll understand that:

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 18:1-3)


No it just explains that you do not understand the definition of "eternal."

You certainly don't.

It explains that you do not understand God. For if you did you would know that the "Word" was not created. That only Jesus was when He became human... and you would know the eternity of the Holy Spirit... for if you remember another statement of Jesus' and no one else's....Matt 28:19

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Matt 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Not all will be sheep.... you seem clueless to understand that

You have every right to feel this way since I offered an opinion without any scripture to back it up.

Stick around and just maybe Christ will open your eyes to that wonderful truth.

My eyes are opened just fine by the Holy Spirit who lives in me , thank you.

 

[Beebster]

Can you read?

That is a childish retort to demean and degrade.

Let me give it a shot:

And from ypour CLV preference

Can you spell?
See how childish that is?
Good.

And why would you say that anyway?
All six witnesses proving that Christ will save humanity were taken from the KJV.

Here they are again:

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear. (Isa 45:23)

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee SHALL bow to me, and every tongue SHALL confess to God. (Romans 14:11)

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed THE CHRIST, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42)

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
(1 John 4:14)

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

Do you understand that you saying that ..."he will save all humanity."... is making Jesus telling a lie.

No. What I understand is that you deny these truths while clinging to your false doctrine.

It is quite obvious who the liar is here. Keep denying.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of "should"

No I did not... I read that as ummmmmm?????? a suggestion not fact.

Wow! Is that how you always approach the Word of God?

EXCEPT..... Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Except what?

Do you understand who God's "called" are. Do you know who his "chosen" are.

Of course not; if you did you'd be trembling in your boots right now.

No it just explains that you do not understand the definition of "eternal."

You certainly don't.

It explains that you do not understand God. For if you did you would know that the "Word" was not created. That only Jesus was when He became human... and you would know the eternity of the Holy Spirit...

No, Christ is the very first of the Father's creation.
And believe it or not Christ is still being created.

Peace.

 

[BlessedPeace]

That is a childish retort to demean and degrade.

Let me give it a shot:


Can you spell?
See how childish that is?
Good.

And why would you say that anyway?
All six witnesses proving that Christ will save humanity were taken from the KJV.

Here they are again:

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear. (Isa 45:23)

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee SHALL bow to me, and every tongue SHALL confess to God. (Romans 14:11)

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed THE CHRIST, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42)

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
(1 John 4:14)

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

No. What I understand is that you deny these truths while clinging to your false doctrine.

It is quite obvious who the liar is here. Keep denying.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)


Wow! Is that how you always approach the Word of God?


Except what?

Do you understand who God's "called" are. Do you know who his "chosen" are.

Of course not; if you did you'd be trembling in your boots right now.


No, Christ is the very first of the Father's creation.
And believe it or not Christ is still being created.

Peace.

You as a "new" member address a sister in Christ like that and remind me,many others I'm sure,of another member who has the same attitude. All meant to wrangle emotion.

Don't wish peace when you coral contempt.

We see you.

So too does God.

 

[Beebster]

You as a "new" member address a sister in Christ like that and remind me,many others I'm sure,of another member who has the same attitude. All meant to wrangle emotion.

I see.
So when a sister in Christ accuses me saying:

"I make Jesus tell lies"

and

"I don't understand God'

Also that I'm:

clueless, blind and illiterate

Are you excusing that or is that not also "meant to wrangle emotion"?

Are you suggesting I just allow that bullying cause I'm the "new" guy.

I'm fully capable of having civil conversation but when someone decides to be rude they're going to get treated justly.

And as far as wishing "Peace" goes.
Whether or not I get into it with someone, they are still my brother or sister in Christ and I will always (although sometimes I forget) wish them well .
I wish no harm on anyone.

Peace.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Reader....

Hell was created for the Devil and His fallen angels", before Adam was created who rebelled and took on the nature of the Devil.

So, that "nature" is the "Adamic" nature.. Its the sin nature or the "fallen nature" that is passed unto us all, as..

"by one man's sin, sin and death entered the world".

Its on YOU and ME........until we are "made free from sin". = Born... again.. Spiritually.

So, in this world there are only Believers, born again, and Unbeliever's, who are not born again.

Some who think they are born again, are not, but they can sound like they are a Christian.
They can even sow the good works of a Christian. They can start churches and write books and commentaries.
They can even start "christian forums"..
They are RELIGIOUS but lost... They have a "Form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof.".

They SOUND like a Christian, they even believe themselves to be one..

They are not.

So, THOSE are counted as "unbelievers", and they will have "their part in the Lake of Fire that is the 2nd Death"..

And that DEATH is not annihilation. that is Eternal Damnation.

How long will the Damned be damned?

Well starting with dying not born again, they will exist in Damnation, in the Lake of Fire, for as Long as God lives.

They will not be given a second chance, in Hell nor in the Lake of Fire, because you can't be born again, once you DIE down here.

Christ died on THIS EARTH, and you have to be BELIEVE in Jesus and be born again on THIS EARTH, or you will die, in "Damnation" and you will never have an opportunity to change that, once you leave this earth .

JOHN 3:36

So, if you are not a Christian.....then you can become one right now..

See that Cross of Christ? That is Jesus paying for your sin, so that you dont have to after you die.

GO to HIM.... Trust Him, and God will make Heaven your Home today, and you never again have to worry about going to Hell.

Thats a promise, and God does not lie.

"ALL who call on the Name of JESUS, shall be saved".

Jesus told you....."All who Believe in me... I GIVE UNTO YOU>.. Eternal Life and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)""

Believe it.

God told Adam that he would die on the day he ate of the forbidden tree. Since all of humanity came from Adam we all inherited "spiritual death" from him. So in that sense every man died once already, the second death is the permanent spiritual death. Those who die in their sin, never get another chance to repent, so their spiritual death is their final eternal state.

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

The above scripture describes current believers as once being dead in trespasses and sins. And it says that "you He made alive". This must mean that salvation can only take place if God makes the dead person alive, since a spiritually dead person cannot receive spiritual things as they are foolishness onto him. If a person dies in their sin, they will suffer the second death in the form of eternal torment in hell.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Okay,

First....

I said:

Can you read?

You came back with: That is a childish retort to demean and degrade.

That is not so. I can assure you if I wanted to demean and degrade you I would have, well enough on that.

You asked me if I can spell?

Answer is no. And when spellcheck does not catch something it often slips through. (Mine is not working now)

I also cannot type.

I see.
So when a sister in Christ accuses me saying:

"I make Jesus tell lies"

No. You cannot make Jesus do anything, but when you ignore what was said by Jesus himself that counters what other may have said...

You quote: "the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Isa 26:9)

Learning and doing are two different things.

You quote: I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear. (Isa 45:23)

And you believe that this means everyone..... is or will be saved... or is heaven bound?

Then you need to explain how these do not say that.

Matt 7:21

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matt 7:22

“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

Matt 7:23

“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

And most importantly...

John 6:44

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

BTW these are not from King Jimmys translation but NASB95... (If I had time I would quote you the Peshitta)

For these were the original plan, outlined before the foundations of the world.... AND THEY NEVER INCLUDED EVERYONE... only those who have the faith and accept God's gift of Grace. God shows both mercy and grace, but they are not the same. Mercy withholds a punishment we deserve; grace gives a blessing we don’t deserve.

But only to those born again (and not all are) and that is why we "we walk by faith, not by sight-" 2 Cor 5:7

IOW Anton LaVey never would and neither would Madalyn Murray O'Hair

and

"I don't understand God'

I do not believe you do. For... without discussion... due to (see my signature) ... you are not a Trinity believer, and I doubt if you subscribe the the Triune man fact.... (A Triparte being)

Also that I'm:

clueless, blind and illiterate

No... I believe you are under studied.... You never should hang your beliefs solely on 1 source of the written word, and especially not when such a source will have altered verses....

As I posted the commentary on your CLV translation...

Since I prefer using the NKJV hand-in-hand with the Greek and Hebrew text, I never gave close attention to the literal versions. However, knowing that many are unfamiliar with the original languages, I have recommended them to others and often cited from them, including the Concordant Literal Version. However, as time passed, I began to come across more and more renderings in the CLV which were incongruous with the original text. That in turn led me to investigate the background and beliefs of A. E. Knoch and his Concordant Publishing Concern which compiled and published the CLV. As I read his writings to see his justifications for his unique renderings, it became evident to me that his primary motive in making his own translation was in order to have a Bible which would substantiate his own particular doctrinal beliefs, just as the Jehovah Witnesses did with their New World Translation.

Are you excusing that or is that not also "meant to wrangle emotion"?

Are you suggesting I just allow that bullying cause I'm the "new" guy.

I'm fully capable of having civil conversation but when someone decides to be rude they're going to get treated justly.

And as far as wishing "Peace" goes.
Whether or not I get into it with someone, they are still my brother or sister in Christ and I will always (although sometimes I forget) wish them well .
I wish no harm on anyone.

Peace.

 

[MA2444]

No, it is Hades, then the Lake of Fire ( which is Hell). Hades and Death will be cast into the Lake of Fire and be destroyed along with Satan, His demons and all unbelievers. It is more of an event. The Jews got an idea of what the afterlife was like for those whonwere not reconciled to God from the Gehenna, a perpetually smoldering garbage dump outside of Jersulaem where bodies of dead animals were taken where the worm never dies because the worms would fed on bodies on the perimeter, not directly in the center flames so survived. The Canannites used to sacrifice babies on red hot iron altat to their God, Molech in this same spot. Jesus condemned the Pharisees when He said , You serpents, you brood of vipers,
how are you to escape being sent to the Gehenna (Hell) Matt. 23:33
Tartarus is the Abyss, the Bottomless Pit, which is a lower part of Hades ( assigned to demons).
Someday the first earth and first heavens will be destroyed on a fervent heat (2 Peter 3:10). .Hades is the underworld, physically part of this earth that will someday be destroyed. 2 Peter 3:10 describes this final judgment event as the Lake of Fire when all former things pass away and are burned up.
There is fire beneath the crust of the earth. Luke 16 describes the Rich man in Hades, in flames. But they are not destructive flames for He is conscious, thirsty and in torment.

This is how I understand it. Hell is a temporary holding place beneath the earth but it is not their final destination. The final destination is the lake of fire.

 

[Beebster]

You quote: "the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Isa 26:9)

Learning and doing are two different things.

Sure, however, when I send my child to school and say “you will learn math” I should expect that at the end of the school year she has learned math right?
I don’t expect my child to say no dad, I just learned “about” math.

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

The inhabitants of the world are not going to learn “about” righteousness; they "WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS."

And when will the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness?

“-when thy judgments are in the earth-”(Isa 26:9)

When is that? When are thy judgments in the earth?

Well, for some it’s now-

For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Pet 4:17)

Judgement starts with those of us who believe on Jesus Christ.

But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. (1 Cor 11:31)

Now before we start claiming that we alone judge ourselves, we need to take a look at the very next verse:

But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. (1 Cor 11:32)

The only way we can judge ourselves is if we have Jesus Christ in our hearts.

-most face judgment later:

because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17:31)

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (Rev 20:12-13)

And though the process is not the same, condemnation or no condemnation, the outcome is:

-for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

Peace.

 

[Beebster]

You quote: I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear. (Isa 45:23)


And you believe that this means everyone..... is or will be saved... or is heaven bound?

Yes I do.

Then you need to explain how these do not say that.


Matt 7:21

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matt 7:22

“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’

Matt 7:23

“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

OK, who are these poeple that::

Claim that Jesus Christ is their Lord?
Are they Islamic?

Who is it that prophesies in Christ’s name; Buddhists?

Who casts out demons in Christ’s name; Hindus?

And who does many miracles (wonderful works) in Christ’s name; Taoists?

Who teaches that Jesus is the Christ; Jews (Judaism)?

No, Jesus is speaking of Christians.

And Jesus says there are many: “Many will say to Me on that day-”

And how many is “many?”

For MANY (Christians) are called , but few (Christians) are chosen.” (Mat 22:14)

Are we to assume that God is going to annihilate or worse yet (trillions of time worse) torment or torture most of Christianity for ever and ever and ever……

Of course not; but they will have their part in the lake of fire.

Many people profess Jesus Christ but they don’t know Jesus Christ.

When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” But He turned and rebuked them, [[ah]and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village. (ah. Early mss do not contain bracketed portion)

Most Christians today “demand” fire to consume the wicked but they will be rebuked as well.

And most importantly...


John 6:44

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Both these verses are true; man doesn’t find God using his so called “free will.”

No, just as those two verses state, God draws us:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL men to Myself.” (John 12:32)

That's another witness that God will save all.

And when was Jesus Christ lifted up?

Well, 2000 years ago he was lifted up on the cross and ever since his name has been lifted higher than any other name in history.

Peace.

 

[Kabone]

Reader....

Hell was created for the Devil and His fallen angels", before Adam was created who rebelled and took on the nature of the Devil.

So, that "nature" is the "Adamic" nature.. Its the sin nature or the "fallen nature" that is passed unto us all, as..

"by one man's sin, sin and death entered the world".

Its on YOU and ME........until we are "made free from sin". = Born... again.. Spiritually.

So, in this world there are only Believers, born again, and Unbeliever's, who are not born again.

Some who think they are born again, are not, but they can sound like they are a Christian.
They can even sow the good works of a Christian. They can start churches and write books and commentaries.
They can even start "christian forums"..
They are RELIGIOUS but lost... They have a "Form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof.".

They SOUND like a Christian, they even believe themselves to be one..

They are not.

So, THOSE are counted as "unbelievers", and they will have "their part in the Lake of Fire that is the 2nd Death"..

And that DEATH is not annihilation. that is Eternal Damnation.

How long will the Damned be damned?

Well starting with dying not born again, they will exist in Damnation, in the Lake of Fire, for as Long as God lives.

They will not be given a second chance, in Hell nor in the Lake of Fire, because you can't be born again, once you DIE down here.

Christ died on THIS EARTH, and you have to be BELIEVE in Jesus and be born again on THIS EARTH, or you will die, in "Damnation" and you will never have an opportunity to change that, once you leave this earth .

JOHN 3:36

So, if you are not a Christian.....then you can become one right now..

See that Cross of Christ? That is Jesus paying for your sin, so that you dont have to after you die.

GO to HIM.... Trust Him, and God will make Heaven your Home today, and you never again have to worry about going to Hell.

Thats a promise, and God does not lie.

"ALL who call on the Name of JESUS, shall be saved".

Jesus told you....."All who Believe in me... I GIVE UNTO YOU>.. Eternal Life and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)""

Believe it.

I have yet to find a version of the Bible that does not use the exact word ‘perish’. You’ve decided to substitute it with ‘hell’ and I don’t think that’s correct. I have yet to find a definition ‘perish’ that means hell or eternal suffering.
The end result will be only 1 of 2 things, eternal life or perish. If you’re destined to eternity no matter what , Jesus would have said ‘or for eternity you shall not suffer, but have happiness’.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Yes I do.

OK, who are these poeple that::

Claim that Jesus Christ is their Lord?
Are they Islamic?

Who is it that prophesies in Christ’s name; Buddhists?

Who casts out demons in Christ’s name; Hindus?

And who does many miracles (wonderful works) in Christ’s name; Taoists?

Who teaches that Jesus is the Christ; Jews (Judaism)?

No, Jesus is speaking of Christians.

And Jesus says there are many: “Many will say to Me on that day-”

And how many is “many?”

For MANY (Christians) are called , but few (Christians) are chosen.” (Mat 22:14)

Are we to assume that God is going to annihilate or worse yet (trillions of time worse) torment or torture most of Christianity for ever and ever and ever……

Of course not; but they will have their part in the lake of fire.

Many people profess Jesus Christ but they don’t know Jesus Christ.

When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” But He turned and rebuked them, [[ah]and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village. (ah. Early mss do not contain bracketed portion)

Most Christians today “demand” fire to consume the wicked but they will be rebuked as well.


Both these verses are true; man doesn’t find God using his so called “free will.”

No, just as those two verses state, God draws us:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL men to Myself.” (John 12:32)

That's another witness that God will save all.

And when was Jesus Christ lifted up?

Well, 2000 years ago he was lifted up on the cross and ever since his name has been lifted higher than any other name in history.

Peace.

Jen Psaki has to be so proud. You made a perfect circle back.

 

[Oneoff]

And how does one twist the words "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." In order make them fit with eternal fire for the vast majority of mankind?

And can you really believe that 'man' can undermine God's will that "All men shall be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth"?

I am aware of stuff like Matthew 25:33-46 but it contradicts so much that I learn from other scriptures about the nature of God that I just have to 'cherry pick' the bits that I believe God's Holy Spirit to have implanted in the "fleshy tables of my heart" and I make no apologies for that.

 

[Beebster]

Throughout this thread I’ve been citing line upon line showing that God plans to save all of humanity.

So far, we have 10 witnesses:

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me EVERY knee shall bow, EVERY tongue shall swear. (Isa 45:23)

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, EVERY knee shall bow to me, and EVERY tongue shall confess to God. (Rom 14:11)

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. (John 12:47)

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL men to Myself.” (John 12:32)

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed THE CHRIST, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42)

Then we have Oneoff right on the mark with this an 11th witness.:

And can you really believe that 'man' can undermine God's will that "All men shall be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth"?

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who WILL have all men to be saved, AND to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:3-4)

Rightly divided we can see this if Christ has healed us:

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS – Isa 26:9). (1 Tim 2:4)

And here also-

And how does one twist the words "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." In order make them fit with eternal fire for the vast majority of mankind?

-for a twelfth witness:

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor 13:15)

Any guesses as to what that fire is?

I can tell you without a doubt, it’s not hell but that most Christians call it so.

Oh, the blasphemy.

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, SPECIALLY of those that believe. (1 Tim 4:11)

Not “exclusively” those that believe but SPECIALLY!!!!!

And what does the very next verse tell us?

These things COMMAND and TEACH. (1 Tim 4:11)

Do most Christians command and teach those things?

Hardly.

God Bless.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

And how does one twist the words "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." In order make them fit with eternal fire for the vast majority of mankind?

And can you really believe that 'man' can undermine God's will that "All men shall be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth"?

I am aware of stuff like Matthew 25:33-46 but it contradicts so much that I learn from other scriptures about the nature of God that I just have to 'cherry pick' the bits that I believe God's Holy Spirit to have implanted in the "fleshy tables of my heart" and I make no apologies for that.

Guess Jesus' will doesn't count?

Good to know.

Throughout this thread I’ve been citing line upon line showing that God plans to save all of humanity.

So far, we have 10 witnesses:

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil 2:10)

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me EVERY knee shall bow, EVERY tongue shall swear. (Isa 45:23)

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, EVERY knee shall bow to me, and EVERY tongue shall confess to God. (Rom 14:11)

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. (John 12:47)

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL men to Myself.” (John 12:32)

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Isa 26:9)

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed THE CHRIST, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42)

Then we have Oneoff right on the mark with this an 11th witness.:

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who WILL have all men to be saved, AND to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:3-4)

Rightly divided we can see this if Christ has healed us:

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS – Isa 26:9). (1 Tim 2:4)

And here also-

-for a twelfth witness:

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor 13:15)

Any guesses as to what that fire is?

I can tell you without a doubt, it’s not hell but that most Christians call it so.

Oh, the blasphemy.

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, SPECIALLY of those that believe. (1 Tim 4:11)

Not “exclusively” those that believe but SPECIALLY!!!!!

And what does the very next verse tell us?

These things COMMAND and TEACH. (1 Tim 4:11)

Do most Christians command and teach those things?

Hardly.

God Bless.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Guess Jesus' will doesn't count?

Good to know.

Beebster said:
Throughout this thread I’ve been citing line upon line showing that God plans to save all of humanity.

So far, we have 10 witnesses:

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

View attachment 47223

HOW?

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

I do not testify that because I do not know HOW............ to testify that so people would hear and immediately understand they are saved.

I am sure Hitler knows that. And Musolini. And PolPot/ And Xi. and those 911 terrorists. And the men who kidnapped a young girl I knew years ago and raped her and burned her nipples with a car gigarette lighter.
And those young women being tortured and lkiile from the southern border corsses... and I could fill ore then 10,000 characters.....

So you tell me how I can let these people know the good news for them cause they do not know....

OR Richard Baumhammer a long while back who killed my friend cause she was Jewish and 7 other assorted
races... ;iving on death row in PA. (BTW he held Nazi meetings at his house... wearing fulol uniforms)

So I repeat.... How do I witness to the scum of the earth so they are assured Jesus came for them because of the Father and therefore... Rejoyce.

 

[Beebster]

Beebster said:
Throughout this thread I’ve been citing line upon line showing that God plans to save all of humanity.

So far, we have 10 witnesses:

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

HOW?

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

I do not testify that because I do not know HOW............ to testify that so people would hear and immediately understand they are saved.

If your honest with yourself, you would admit that you “do not testify that because” you don’t believe it.

If you ever do believe it you will testify to that and much more.

I am sure Hitler knows that. And Musolini. And PolPot/ And Xi. and those 911 terrorists. And the men who kidnapped a young girl I knew years ago and raped her and burned her nipples with a car gigarette lighter.
And those young women being tortured and lkiile from the southern border corsses... and I could fill ore then 10,000 characters.....

So you tell me how I can let these people know the good news for them cause they do not know....

If you can't come to believe those glorious words of God you certainly won’t believe anything I tell you.

OR Richard Baumhammer a long while back who killed my friend cause she was Jewish and 7 other assorted

races... ;iving on death row in PA. (BTW he held Nazi meetings at his house... wearing fulol uniforms)

So I repeat.... How do I witness to the scum of the earth so they are assured Jesus came for them because of the Father and therefore... Rejoyce.

In all sincerity, you sound upset.

I’m going to ask you honestly, is it the Word of God (those 13 witnesses) that are upsetting you?

Does it contradict the justice you seek?

I’ll say this again with all sincerity, I do hope Christ will open your eyes to that wonderful truth.

Look unto me, and be ye saved, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22)

God Bless.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

If your honest with yourself, you would admit that you “do not testify that because” you don’t believe it.

If you ever do believe it you will testify to that and much more.

If you can't come to believe those glorious words of God you certainly won’t believe anything I tell you.

In all sincerity, you sound upset.

I’m going to ask you honestly, is it the Word of God (those 13 witnesses) that are upsetting you?

Does it contradict the justice you seek?

I’ll say this again with all sincerity, I do hope Christ will open your eyes to that wonderful truth.

Look unto me, and be ye saved, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22)

God Bless.

And I hope you get to rub elbnows with those I listed before.... You are al;l very much aloke.

Now on ignore ignore

 

[Beebster]

And I hope you get to rub elbnows with those I listed before.... You are al;l very much aloke.

Now on ignore ignore

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:10)

 

[BlessedPeace]

And I hope you get to rub elbnows with those I listed before.... You are al;l very much aloke.

Now on ignore ignore

Have you noticed there to be all these "new members" that take issue with you immediately? ;)