The Will of Man - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

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St. SteVen

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The Will of Man -
Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

At this point I wish to share some
searching and enlightening words penned by a servant of
the Lord more than sixty-five years ago. "Concerning
the nature and the power of man's will, the
greatest confusion prevails today, and the most erroneous
views are held, even by many of God's children.
The popular idea now prevailing, which is taught from the
great majority of pulpits, is that man has a 'free will,'
and that salvation comes to the sinner through his will
co-operating with the Holy Spirit. To deny the 'free will' of man,
i.e. his power to choose that which is good,
his native ability to accept Christ, is to bring
one into disfavor at once, even before most of those who
profess to be orthodox. And yet Scripture emphatically says,
'It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs,
but of God that shows mercy' (Rom. 9:16).
Which shall we believe: God, or the preachers?

"But does not Scripture say,
'Whosoever will may come'? It does, but does this mean
that everybody has the will to come? What of those
who won't come? 'Whosoever will may come' no more
implies that fallen man has the power in himself to
come, than 'Stretch forth Your hand' implies that the man
with the withered arm had the inherent ability in himself to comply.
It should be obvious that the ability came from the One who
spoke the word: 'Stretch forth your hand.' In and Of himself the
natural man has power to reject Christ; but in and of himself he has not the power
to receive Christ. And why? Because he has a mind that is
'enmity against' Him (Rom. 8:7); because he has a hear that hates Him (Jn. 15:18).
Man chooses that which is according to his nature, and therefore before he will
ever choose or prefer that which is divine and spiritual, a new nature
must be imparted to him; in other words, he must be born again.

"Let me appeal to the actual
experience of the reader of these lines. Was there not a
time when you were unwilling to come to Christ? There was.
Since then you have come to Him. Are you now
prepared to give Him all the glory for that (Ps 115:1)?
Do you not acknowledge that you came to Christ
because the Holy Spirit brought you from unwillingness to willingness?
You do. Then is it not also a patent fact that the Holy Spirit
has not done in many others what He has
done in you! Granting that many others have heard the
Gospel, been shown their need of Christ, yet, they are
still unwilling to come to Him. Thus He has
wrought more in you, than in them. Do you answer?
'Yet I remember well the time when the word of salvation was
presented to me, and my conscience testifies that my
will acted and that I yielded to the claims of Christ upon me.'
Quite true. But before you 'yielded,' the Holy Spirit
overcame the native enmity of your mind against God,
and this enmity He does not overcome in all at this time.
Should it be said, that is because they are
unwilling for their enmity to be overcome?
Ah, none are thus 'willing' till He has put forth
His all-mighty power and wrought
a miracle of grace in the heart.

"But let us now inquire, What is the human Will?
Is it a self-determining agent, or is it, in turn,
determined by something else? Is it sovereign or servant?
Is the will superior to every other faculty of our being
so that it governs them, or is it moved by their impulses
and subject to their pleasure? Does the will rule the mind,
or does the mind control the will? Is the will
free to do as it pleases, or is it under the necessity
of rendering obedience to something outside of itself?

"What is the Will? We answer, the will is the
faculty of choice, the immediate cause of all action.
Choice necessarily implies the refusal of one
thing and the acceptance of another. The positive and the
negative must both be present to the mind before
there can be any choice. In every act of the will
there is a preference - the desiring of one thing rather
than another. Where there is no preference, but complete
indifference, there is no volition. To will is to choose,
and to choose is to decide between two or more
alternatives. But there is something which influences
the choice; something which determines the decision.
Hence the will cannot be sovereign because it
is the servant of that something. The will cannot be both
sovereign and servant. It cannot be both cause and effect.
The will is not causative, because, as we have said,
something causes it TO CHOOSE, therefore
that something must be the causative agent.
Choice itself is affected by certain considerations,
is determined by various influences
brought to bear upon the individual himself,
hence, volition is the effect of these
considerations and influences, and if the effect, it must
be their servant; and if the will is their servant
then it is not sovereign. If the will is not sovereign,
we certainly cannot predicate absolute 'freedom' of it.

Continued at link.

Source: Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man
 
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GISMYS_7

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God is unwilling that any perish but many do by their choice to reject God and the truth of his word..
 

FaithWillDo

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The Will of Man -
Excerpt from J. Preston Eby
Dear St. SteVen,

This verse below testifies to the truth that mankind cannot accept Jesus as their Lord UNTIL Christ comes to a person and gives them the Early Rain.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

In this age, Christ comes to a person because they were previously chosen to be "called out from the world". Christ does not come to them because they asked Him to come. And when Christ comes to them, He does not ask for permission to give them the Spirit. Christ is mankind's God and He will do as He pleases:

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

After Christ gives a person the Spirit, they will accept Him as their Lord when they are presented with the Gospel.

From mankind's perspective, a person will believe that they made a confession of faith from their own "free will" ability to choose, however, this is not true. The reason they made their decision is solely because Christ previously gave them the Early Rain. Once the Spirit resides in a person, they can no longer reject Christ. The only "choice" they will make is to accept Jesus as their Lord.

I have presented 1Cor 12:3 to countless believers who claim a belief in mankind's "free will" ability. Almost without exception, they will not respond to the verse but will present another verse to me that says mankind must "choose" Christ in order to be saved. They will then say that God would never tell us to choose Christ if we did not have the ability to do so. But as Mr. Eby explained, mankind (in our created state) does not have the ability to choose Christ.

This verse applies:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Unless Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain, the only choice they will ever make is to reject Christ.

Paul's conversion experience is presented in Acts chapter 9. 1Tim 1:16 says that it is the "pattern" for the salvation of all the Elect. The pattern is presented as a "type". No where in the pattern does mankind's supposed "free will" ability come into play.

Here is the pattern:

While travelling the Damascus Road, Paul hated Christ and was on his way to continue his persecution of the church. But all that changed "suddenly" when Christ came to Paul and gave Paul the Early Rain. Though the record of Paul's experience does not say that Christ gave Paul the Early Rain, the evidence that Christ gave Paul this gift is proven by the fact that Paul fell to the ground and called Jesus "Lord". And since no man can call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (even the earnest amount), we know that Paul was given the Early Rain.

After Paul received the Early Rain, Paul became blind and was led by the hand into Damascus. Paul then spent three days (represents that Paul is going through a "spiritual process") in Damascus and was unable to eat or drink. This represents a "called out" believer's inability to consume the truth of Christ or to drink the New Wine of the New Covenant. This inability is a result of the believer's spiritual blindness (typed by Paul's blindness). All that the new believer can do is to physically consume the Lord's Supper which is a physical type that foreshadows its later spiritual fulfillment (the marriage supper of the Lamb).

All believers who enter the church will enter it spiritually blind and must be "told what to do" (as Paul was). A called out believer has no ability to understand and receive the truth of God's Word on their own - their remaining carnality blinds them.

Paul's churches, which he later started, displayed this same inability to consume the truth of God.

Paul made this statement to the Corinthian church:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

After the Apostles deaths, truth was no longer being hand fed to the churches and they quickly fell prey to the false teachings of the wolves (ministers of Satan). This began the apostasy of the church which continues to this day.

For a fallen away believer in the apostate church who is also one of the Elect, Christ will come to them a second time. When Christ comes to them, He will pour out the Latter Rain and will heal their spiritual blindness. With their blindness healed, Christ will "appear" to them for the first time.

This verse applies:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Note: When Christ comes to a person the first time to give them the Early Rain, Christ does not appear to them. Christ remains "veiled" from them because the person remains spiritually blind.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...
 
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FaithWillDo

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The Will of Man -
Excerpt from J. Preston Eby
CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

To make Christ's pathway "straight" for Christ to come to an Elect believer, Christ will send a person to them in the spirit of Elijah (just as He sent John the Baptist to the Jewish Elect). Christ will then cause the Elect believer to "repent" of their works. The Doctrine of Free Will is the leading belief that causes a called out believer to fall away. The Elect will fall away just as everyone does who enter the church. The Elect will live by "every word" and not just by bread (Mat 4:4).

After Paul's three days in Damascus were complete, Paul prayed. Though the story does not say that Paul was repenting, we can know that He was because Ananias (type of Christ) is said to have travelled to Paul on "Straight" street. On Straight street, Paul was staying at a home of a man named Judas (a type for Paul's fallen away spiritual condition, a Man of Sin). When Ananias arrived, Paul scales fell off his eyes and he was baptized in water (type for the Latter Rain). Paul was then told to "eat meat". This was Paul's moment of salvation.

Though Paul's conversion story ends there, other scripture teaches the remaining portion of the conversion process (called the First Resurrection in Rev 20:5).

After Paul would have eaten meat (the Marriage Supper of the Lamb), the truth Paul received would have caused Paul to "see" the Abomination of Desolation which had occurred within him. The Man of Sin (who Paul was) would have also been revealed to Paul. After this happens, the Day of the Lord will immediately come. In this judgment, the Man of Sin (spirit of anti-Christ) and Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature) will be "taken" from within Paul and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction. After this judgment is complete, Paul would then be converted.

Paul's conversion experience is how Christ saves His Elect in this age. No where along the pathway to salvation does Paul exercise a falsely taught "free will" ability.

These verses apply:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If Christ wanted to save all mankind today, Christ could do it. However, Christ has established a plan to save us all and He will not deviate from it. In this age, Christ is only saving the people who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. They are the "first fruits" of His harvest. The full harvest of mankind will be gathered into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven) at the end of the final age. It takes two ages of time for the Lord to complete His work within all mankind - this is the patience of the saints (Rev 13:10).

Mankind's salvation happens because it is God's "will" for it to happen. Mankind's "will" is secondary to God's "will" and it always will be.

For God to achieve His "will" of saving mankind, the Father sent Jesus Christ to accomplish this great work:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

After the last person is saved in the final age, this scripture will be testified to true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What a great and wonderful Creator we all have!

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for the ages. Amen.

And I will add another "amen" to that!

Joe
 
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St. SteVen

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After Christ gives a person the Spirit, they will accept Him as their Lord when they are presented with the Gospel.
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed reply post.
Trying to find energy today to respond.

I was just remembering the call of the first twelve disciples.
Jesus went to them and said, "Follow me." And they did.
Dropped their nets and followed.

No mention of a sales pitch, or any discussion.
They followed without question.
It was NOT a decision. NOT a choice. NOT according to their own will.
Only a will yielded. A surrendered will.
 
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St. SteVen

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Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Unless Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain, the only choice they will ever make is to reject Christ.
Excellent.
And the previous verse sheds even more insight.
We are all "all under the power of sin." Therefore UNABLE to make a free-will decision to follow.

Romans 3:9 NIV
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all!
For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
 
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St. SteVen

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For God to achieve His "will" of saving mankind, the Father sent Jesus Christ to accomplish this great work:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Yes, yes...
Our salvation was the will of God. Not that we loved Him, but he FIRST loved us.
The Father sent (the will of the Father) his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Did the Son succeed, or fail?
Did the Son succeed in saving the WHOLE world. Or did he fail?

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
 
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St. SteVen

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Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for the ages. Amen.

And I will add another "amen" to that!
Yes, AMEN
What translation did you use for these scriptures?

To him are ALL things. Not just SOME things.
 

FaithWillDo

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Yes, AMEN
What translation did you use for these scriptures?

To him are ALL things. Not just SOME things.
Dear SteVen,
I mostly use the KJV but sometimes Darby and YLT.

The KJV is generally very good but its grammar is out of date. The main flaw (not the only one) with the KJV is how it translates "aion" and "aionios". They should be translated as "age" and "age-during" and never as "for ever" and "everlasting".

Joe
 
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FaithWillDo

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Yes, AMEN
What translation did you use for these scriptures?

To him are ALL things. Not just SOME things.
Dear SteVen,
More on scripture translations.

I just realized the probable reason for your question. It relates to this verse I quoted:

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for the ages. Amen.

The verse above is a combination of KJV and YLT. Like I said, I like to use the KJV most times but when I quote a verse that uses "aion" or "aionios", I will usually change the "for ever" or "everlasting" to read as "age" or "age-during". So the verse above is a mixture of the KJV and YLT.

I am very comfortable combining the two translations because it is provable from scripture that "aion" cannot ever mean "for ever".


Here is why:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh messenger trumpets. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of this world became our Lord's and His Christ's, and He shall be reigning for ever and ever! Amen! (KJV)

Here is the correct translation:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh messenger trumpets. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of this world became our Lord's and His Christ's, and He shall be reigning for the ages of the ages! Amen!

The phrase "ages of the ages" comes from the Greek words "aion aion". It does not mean "for ever and ever" as the KJV translates it. We can have certainty in this understanding because of what Paul said here:

1Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

As Paul says, Christ's reign will come to an end when He destroys the last enemy of death. Christ will not reign for ever and ever as the KJV translates the verse.

And likewise, the same error occurs in this verse:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (KJV)

Here is the correct translation:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for the ages of the ages.

And likewise, we can know that "ages of the ages" is the correct translation because the Lake of Fire represents the judgment of Christ. Christ's judgment is for the loving purpose of destroying our old vessel:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Once the old vessel has been destroyed, the judgment of the Lake of Fire will end.

Also, this verse applies:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abides which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Once Christ's purpose for His judgment is complete, His judgment will end. Judgment, like Christ's reign, only lasts for an age. It does not last for ever and ever as the KJV states.

Joe
 

St. SteVen

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So the verse above is a mixture of the KJV and YLT.
The best reaon NOT to assign a translation to it. - LOL
I am very comfortable combining the two translations because it is provable from scripture that "aion" cannot ever mean "for ever".
Right.
Here;s my notes on that. Based on the video at the bottom. (transcribed from)

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
 

St. SteVen

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Here is why:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh messenger trumpets. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of this world became our Lord's and His Christ's, and He shall be reigning for ever and ever! Amen! (KJV)

Here is the correct translation:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh messenger trumpets. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of this world became our Lord's and His Christ's, and He shall be reigning for the ages of the ages! Amen!
Exactly!

Frankly, what does "forever and ever" mean anyway?
How long is forever? Then what is forever and ever? ???
If forever is FOREVER without end, what can you add to that?

So,,, "for the ages of the ages" makes TOTAL sense.

I think this is a HIGH FIVE moment. (if you will) - LOL
 
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FaithWillDo

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Exactly!

Frankly, what does "forever and ever" mean anyway?
How long is forever? Then what is forever and ever? ???
If forever is FOREVER without end, what can you add to that?

So,,, "for the ages of the ages" makes TOTAL sense.

I think this is a HIGH FIVE moment. (if you will) - LOL
Dear St. SteVen,
Thanks for the additional info on "aionios".

The comments you made above are the same comments have I have made many times when talking about "for ever and ever". That phrase makes no sense because "for ever" cannot be increased by adding another "ever". That is just more evidence that "aion aion" should not be translated that way.

Understanding all this seems so easy to you and me but for those who are still under the "strong delusion", they cannot accept this truth on "aion aion". If they did, it would contradict their Doctrine of eternal Hell - and they cannot allow that to happen.

Thanks for the thread. I hope it will be beneficial to others (as the Lord wills).

Joe
 
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St. SteVen

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Thanks for the additional info on "aionios".
My pleasure.
The comments you made above are the same comments have I have made many times when talking about "for ever and ever". That phrase makes no sense because "for ever" cannot be increased by adding another "ever". That is just more evidence that "aion aion" should not be translated that way.
Right. Amazing how many time we have heard that, but not considered what it means.
Understanding all this seems so easy to you and me but for those who are still under the "great delusion", they cannot accept this truth on "aion aion". If they did, it would contradict their Doctrine of eternal Hell - and they cannot allow to happen.
Yes, we have a great mission to educate them.
Thanks for the thread. I hope it will be beneficial to others (as the Lord wills).
AMEN - thanks
 

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What about when Jesus said "Knock and the door will be opened"? I think if someone is sincere and asks that the Holy Spirit will give them faith - eventually. :)
Dear Patrick1966,

You are referring to this scripture:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

This verse is directed to sons. They are the Elect. Those who are called but not chosen are not sons.

In the scripture above, the Elect believer has only received the Early Rain. They still need the Latter Rain (baptism of the Holy Spirit) to be converted. When Christ is ready to come to an Elect believer to give them this gift, He will cause them to pray (ask, seek and knock) for it. In response to their prayer, Christ will pour out the Holy Spirit upon them.

This verse applies:

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

This is exactly what happened to me when Christ poured out the Latter Rain upon me. At that time, I was carnally minded and fallen away but the Lord compelled me to pray for an answer to a question that was consuming me. Then three days after my prayer, Christ answered my question by sending a person to me in the spirit of Elijah. Christ then poured out the Latter Rain upon me so that I could receive His answer. It turned my world upside down. It was a day of spiritual earthquakes, thunder, lightning and trumpets. My sun and moon were darkened and the scriptures suddenly opened up to me. I could then see the Abomination of Desolation that had occurred within me years ago and the Man of Sin was revealed to me. It was the greatest day of my life beyond question.

The event that led up to my conversion experience is what the scripture you referenced is actually teaching. It applies to all of the Elect.

I have a conversion testimony from that time (Oct. 8th, 2005). If you would like to read it, I think I can fit it into a post.

Joe
 
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FaithWillDo

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I would LOVE to read it! I encourage you to create a new thread and tag me, please! :)
Dear Patrick1966,
I started a new thread and tagged you and St. SteVen (I think). After looking at the new thread, I could not see anything at the bottom of it to show that you and St. SteVen were tagged. Please let me know if the tagging worked.
Joe
 
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