Men, would you have problems being with someone who looks like a Mennonite?

[amigo de christo]

As some of you all might know . I was not raised in church . I had heard the gospel , but for years never followed JESUS .
Then one day , by grace it all changed . PRAISE the LORD . And He put me right into the bible . So that is what by grace i learned
and am still learning from . You all would be amazed at how many denominations have some things messed up .
And many have major things messed up . But , when i did research and found the writings of the early ana baptists
and studied those groups , i found the ones that most resembled the early church .

 

[amigo de christo]

A man who refuted John Calvin... Jacobus Arminius

 

[TLHKAJ]

If i recall
it had to do with military , and they wanted no part of that type of clothing .
Which is okay . Just dont condemn one who does wear buttons etc . That is where the problems begin .

Yes ...if their preference was to make a stand or statement against something, that is their free will. But it isn't a Scriptural issue and should never become a doctrine that they base their salvation on. (And yes, it was related to the military.)

 

[quietthinker]

What is a free will baptist church .

Isn't that the one where as the plate goes around you are free to help yourself and will pay it back on a sunnier day?

 

[rockytopva]

Here is a sermon I heard preached in the long ago in which the young man cautions against three bondages...

1. Acceptance - Desiring to fit in
2. Appreciation - Desiring to fit in
3. Attention - Desiring to fit in

If you have a Mennonite look and have joy in who you are... Don’t change it for anybody!

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes ...if their preference was to make a stand or statement against something, that is their free will. But it isn't a Scriptural issue and should never become a doctrine that they base their salvation on. (And yes, it was related to the military.)

correct dear sister . For me if i went to visit the amish i would simply dress as they do . Knowing full well it does not save me , nor condemn
me . But for their tradition i would do it . And witness JESUS to all that has breath .
I believe so long as the clothing is not revealing , aka lustful , seductive , tempting , then it dont matter .
In other words i would not walk in any church with a tank top and etc . Nor should a lady walk into a church
with revealing clothes . Thou shall not put a temptation before your brethren . cause that is SIN .

 

[DuckieLady]

Where many of these sects go wrong is inserting opinion as "thus saith the Lord" and demanding everyone abide by strange rules such as what kind of buttons or the shape of a beard or the color of clothing, etc., and thus, ruling out any working out one's own salvation before the Lord with fear and trembling.

Yes, the old Amish are that way and they're deep into legalism. It is a bit too much for me.

For some the Mennonites, depending on the church, it's a lot different and they're pretty much like myself with the covering and the long dresses for modesty, they can use the internet and do "normal" things. To the Old Amish,. I'm wearing simple stud earrings, I have a nose stud, I have a tattoo of a dragonfly on the back of my neck, and so I'm probably going to hell in their eyes. Not to the other anabaptists. They're a separate branch. Most of them now don't care.

But scripture is as scripture says. Like I said, jewelry is everywhere in the Bible and for anabaptists, we rely on what the Bible says and we don't ignore our convictions, but like me not wearing dresses for modesty, that's not scripturally based. That is my personal conviction and some other women feel the same.

We can't try to cut and force scripture puzzle pieces to fit our convictions. If that's what we believe and God put it on our heart, go with it and where God is leading us, but like you said, there's nothing in the Bible about shapes of buttons. I'll leave them to it, though.

 

[amigo de christo]

The longer this world does spin , the greater persecution shall arise , even within western socities .
We may soon see ourselves having to meet in houses , caves , fields or hill tops .
Persecution will not destroy the church , and though the body can die , the soul lives on in JESUS .
Persecutions do not weaken the church . IT refines it . ALL THINGS work together for the good of those who LOVE GOD .
AND believe me , all whom GOD loves HE gonna chasten and scourge whom He recieves .
ours is coming my friends . I love you all . Let us stand firm and take it patiently . Let patience have it works .
And may the lambs be here for one another .
If paul and the early church had severe persecution , yet could still find ways to meet , SO can we .
Just as it has been through all ages . But as i said , the time is coming and now is
when we are about to be cast out of society for our love OF JESUS and love of His every word and all sound doctrine .
The eradication law will soon hit the senate . And notice i did not call it equality law .
Cause its not about equality . ITS father is the devil and it will cause the laws to change
and the persecutions of the saints will begin to increase . WE must never conform to the world .
Preach JESUS , always stand for truth . TRUST IN GOD , for HE will give us words to say and Deeds to do .
Fear not man or what he can do to us . TRUST IN GOD , let the lambs endure faithful to HE who has saved us .
Let the lambs HEED HE who is able to keep us from falling . FOR if we take off from heeding HIM , we shall surely fall .
I love you all my friends . If any are in a church and that church is conforming or does conform to the growing evil
Get out . Times will be changing and laws will too .

 

[DuckieLady]

correct dear sister . For me if i went to visit the amish i would simply dress as they do . Knowing full well it does not save me , nor condemn
me . But for their tradition i would do it . And witness JESUS to all that has breath .
I believe so long as the clothing is not revealing , aka lustful , seductive , tempting , then it dont matter .
In other words i would not walk in any church with a tank top and etc . Nor should a lady walk into a church
with revealing clothes . Thou shall not put a temptation before your brethren . cause that is SIN .

I agree with you, and as far as dressing as they do as not to offend, I would say your conviction is accurate and spiritually/scripturally discerned.

Romans 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1 Corinthians 8:13
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


2 Corinthians 6:3
Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed...

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree with you, and as far as dressing as they do as not to offend, I would say your conviction is accurate and spiritually/scripturally discerned.

Romans 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1 Corinthians 8:13
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


2 Corinthians 6:3
Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed...

Yes dear sister . That would be something that if spotted would have to be corrected .
If one was condemning another for their clothes , that would have to be corrected very fast as well .

 

[DuckieLady]

Here is a sermon I heard preached in the long ago in which the young man cautions against three bondages...

1. Acceptance - Desiring to fit in
2. Appreciation - Desiring to fit in
3. Attention - Desiring to fit in

If you have a Mennonite look and have joy in who you are... Don’t change it for anybody!

I super need to hear this one. Thank you! I saved it and I will try to listen to it tonight!

 

[quietthinker]

Where many of these sects go wrong is inserting opinion as "thus saith the Lord" and demanding everyone abide by strange rules such as what kind of buttons or the shape of a beard or the color of clothing, etc., and thus, ruling out any working out one's own salvation before the Lord with fear and trembling.

I was sect-ioned once....in my own head. Come to think of it, I still am. In one section I subscribe to 'don't murder' and am appalled at the news reports of it being a sport; I mean, whole nations spend buckets of money of their citizens on machinery of all descriptions that are made to murder. In another section, especially when the mosquitos are buzzing around my nose, I have no problems with murder and at times it becomes a fast and furious slaughter, especially here in the forest..... soooooo, I can understand about buttons....shiny ones are the most approved...imagine going to heaven with dull buttons when all the rest of the choir gleams.

Now in regards to beards, I never did think they looked any good on women, especially the ones that grow free form. It's all quiet a problem....I went to a church once, probably twice (let me see if I can remember when that was) ....in any case, their was some fear and trembling even wailing....I just watched the activity and afterward was asked to come and share on my experience so up I marched. They turned the microphone on and waited....I looked around at the performers and I don't know what came over me but I said 'I think this is a lot of horsesh.t'
I've never seen elders scramble so fast....first they turned the microphone off then they came and manhandled me out of the building with very dark frowns. I suppose I'll just have to put that into another sect-ion because the sermon which was preached a little earlier was all about love. Ahhhhh, yeahhh, what I've figured is it's just less complicated if the sect-ions don't interact....at least the engines of the war machinery don't contribute to noise pollution.

 

[dev553344]

I'm feeling pretty insecure today and sometimes I'm painfully aware that as an anabaptist that I look pretty Amish/Mennonite. (Prayer covering/long dresses/not super flashy/etc)

I am not looking to change that and don't want to get into the details about why some of us dress that way, but I do want to know what the outside perspective is. It's just something I'm wrestling with/feeling heavily insecure about as far as outside judgments, but also have to stick to my convictions.

I blame it as being a reason for some things in my life at times. What do you think? Would it bother a man/would it not? Curious.

Edit: I explained it anyway in #11.

Well different cultures dress in different ways and that is acceptable to their culture. Asian, African, USA Country Folk, USA City Folk, Middle Eastern, South American, Youth, Middle Aged, Elderly, etc. I'm not a person that shuns or promotes based on appearances, as we are taught that from the bible. I think some worldly people judge on fashion and looks and approved behavior. And if a person doesn't fit into their idea of what is fashionable, good looking or behaves admirably then you might get shunned by them.

The Bible on looks: John 7:24

The Bible on fashion: James 2:2-6

The Bible on behavior: 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

And in all the instances of the bible for looks, fashion and behavior we are instructed to teach them probably the ways of the Lord.

 

[DuckieLady]

As some of you all might know . I was not raised in church . I had heard the gospel , but for years never followed JESUS .
Then one day , by grace it all changed . PRAISE the LORD . And He put me right into the bible . So that is what by grace i learned
and am still learning from . You all would be amazed at how many denominations have some things messed up .
And many have major things messed up . But , when i did research and found the writings of the early ana baptists
and studied those groups , i found the ones that most resembled the early church .

This was my experience, too, Amigo. Years of studied and going through all sorts of different branches, studied the word as much as I can, even the head-covering part for four years straight trying to first understand it and failing to discredit it. I wish I could think of something to share from the old writings, but my mind is blank and it seems they did a pretty good job at relying on the Bible alone.

Most of you might not know, but if you research it clearly, you might find out that your beliefs are the same or nearly identical to the old anabaptist beliefs - I've seen it in a lot of you, if not most. (Especially if you don't believe in infant baptism.) We don't even technically like using the label of anabaptist, fear the possibility of it becoming an idolatry and separating us from the body. There is a strong understanding of what the Bible tells us - "let there be no division among you."

Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal, Anabaptist, Baptist- all definitions of various understandings on small things in the grander scheme of things, but still one body under Christ. We are all family regardless.

 

[amigo de christo]

This was my experience, too, Amigo. Years of studied and going through all sorts of different branches, studied the word as much as I can, even the head-covering part for four years straight trying to first understand it and failing to discredit it. I wish I could think of something to share from the old writings, but my mind is blank and it seems they did a pretty good job at relying on the Bible alone.

Most of you might not know, but if you research it clearly, you might find out that your beliefs are the same or nearly identical to the old anabaptist beliefs - I've seen it in a lot of you, if not most. (Especially if you don't believe in infant baptism.) We don't even technically like using the label of anabaptist, fear the possibility of it becoming an idolatry and separating us from the body. There is a strong understanding of what the Bible tells us - "let there be no division among you."

Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal, Anabaptist, Baptist- all definitions of various understandings on small things in the grander scheme of things, but still one body under Christ. We are all family regardless.

Yes indeed and we must hold the words of Our Lord upon our hearts with much thanksgiving .
I am a firm believer that if error is spotted it must be corrected . For the sake of all .
cause i have watched what even a little leaven , if allowed to remain , can do to not only a person , but an entire flock .
Thus we must keep the pattern identical to How JESUS set it and later the apostels by the Spirit would expound upon and keep as well .
Let us embrace every wholesome word of JESUS . And let us not entertain strange doctrine .
I did research many churches . And when i first heard of seeker friendly , SISTER , i knew it was a death trap
which would leaven the flock . And it did . We cannot pander to the world to win the world , we must speak truth .
And whoever comes amen and whoever rejects its on them . Known unto Christ is exactly how to keep a church safe
and thriving . He left us his teachings , WHICH the Holy Ghost would confirm on our hearts .
And the wonderous holy scrips sure will make one wise unto salvation through their FAITH in CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

Now let all that has breath praise the wonderous glorious Lord . You are loved my friends .

 

[DuckieLady]

Now let all that has breath praise the wonderous glorious Lord . You are loved my friends .

Praise the Lord! You are loved, too, Amigo.

 

[quietthinker]

Praise the Lord! You are loved, too, Amigo.

awwwwwww, fluffyyyy!

 

[TLHKAJ]

But scripture is as scripture says. Like I said, jewelry is everywhere in the Bible and for anabaptists, we rely on what the Bible says and we don't ignore our convictions, but like me not wearing dresses for modesty, that's not scripturally based. That is my personal conviction and some other women feel the same.

We can't try to cut and force scripture puzzle pieces to fit our convictions. If that's what we believe and God put it on our heart, go with it and where God is leading us, but like you said, there's nothing in the Bible about shapes of buttons. I'll leave them to it, though.

Yes, this fits in line with how I believe. I do see modesty as a Biblical standard. I was part of a church where they made rules to dictate what we could and couldn't wear. And they believed it was a salvation issue. And for a long time, I lived that way ... long dresses or skirts. But I got tired of seeing my little girls being gawked at when they played on the playground. So I began putting knitted pants or shorts under their dresses ....that was a no-no... and especially got sideways looks when I decided my baby girls needed to learn to crawl without being encumbered by a long dress, so I put them in girl-styled one-pieced outfits...rompers, you might call them. After they learned to walk, I put them in dresses, but for modesty's sake, I covered their legs with knitted leggings or knitted pants or shorts. I also got tired of having to be so careful that my skirt wasn't being caught by a strong wind, or caught tucked in my kid's foot when I picked them up (on and on...you get the idea).

When it comes to modesty, I'd rather be covered. So I now wear women's slacks or pants... and my shirts or blouses aren't tight fitting or low cut. I wouldn't mind going for more of a combo style (haha!) ...pants with a long top that comes down mid-thigh. Idk what it's called, but I will try to find a photo example.

My hair is long (almost to my waist). But I don't wear a covering. I believe my hair was given for a covering. And I don't have tattoos, nor wear earrings, nose rings, or any jewelry at all for that matter (except I did find a little gold chain and cross to wear to my daughter's wedding). And that is mostly because they break me out unless they're pure gold. lol

I wear makeup conservatively, but I often go weeks or months without any at all. I feel that excess isn't necessary. (But all of this would put me in hell according to the group we used to be part of.)

But all of this is part of my personal walk, as I work out my own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[DuckieLady]

2. The Bible states that it is men which looketh on the outward, but God sees the whole picture, inwardly and outwardly. Place your trust in God, and as you follow your conscience in regards the word of God (as Luther once said, (paraphrase), that his mind was captive to the word of God, and to go against conscience (in regards what it knows of God's word) is neither right nor safe). However, if I may make a comment (which might be taken incorrectly), as a male, as a (single) man, you look 'hot' (modern common (vulgar) vernacular, apologies, but I used this to make a point, and mean in it a Christian sense, as the fire of God is in your outward appearance). That is probably uncouth, but allow me to restate it more properly, and more as a Christian would/should state matters. You look very pretty, very attractive (at least to myself, persons differ in what appeals to them I acknowledge in form and shape and outward), and are like a flower blooming amidst the filth of the world. You look very precious, and are very appealing, at least to the eyes, and perhaps also to the flesh (beware here). Your look, and even hair (for long hair is to a woman's glory (that is her real covering, if you study carefully, not a piece of cloth, though I would not forcefully demand a woman under conviction to remove such cloth, though it is unnecessary scripturally speaking), though there might be rational reasons why a woman might wear short hair, though to me, it is less attractive) Yet, all these things, are merely outward, and says only a little of what might actually be present inwardly, for even a pharisee (I do not call you such, nor label you as such in any way), can dress outwardly 'neat', and 'clean', but Christ Jesus was concerned with the inward 'man' (mankind; the human being/person). Thus, if your inward heart, matches the outward adorning in purity, in charity (love, faithfulness, kindness, meekness, etc), then is it truly of beauty, truly gold to be desired (and not merely fools or false glint and gold).

Thank you, ReChoired. It is not offensive at all and it is a beautiful compliment and very sweet. Just to clear something up, that word is katakaluptó as a verb in the Greek in reference to 1 Corinthians 11:6, which defines a removable covering. The word is also kalupto is also used, 2Corinthians 3:13 where Moses veils his face where they veil is clearly stated as a removable covering.

So I was under the same impression as you for MANY MANY MANY years. Growing up with an Apostolic Pentecostal impressions, it wasn't easy to change my mind. So just BEAR with me, because I know this is not an easy concept and sometimes I know when you're learning something different, it can tick you off. But it's worth it. I promise. Because there's a huge treasure in this, so dig with me.

So you can read in 1 Cor 11:2 that it begins with Paul saying " I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you" - now that statement shows that there is some kind of tradition Paul was setting and there was conflict about it.

At the ending of this chapter, you see through 13-16 that these people are being talked to about their contentiousness, as in 16, meaning there is something about this tradition that they didn't want to do. "If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God." (What this verse means is, "If you have a problem with having to do this, we don't do anything else.")

Now women aren't going to complain about having to do something that is naturally occurring and has no effect on them, but if you read it clearly (I posted more in post #11) you can see that people in the church just simply didn't want to make this extra effort, as our churches just don't today. We did 150 years ago. Notice as the covering diminished, modern feminism came more into place.

The purpose is to not shame her husband by exalting the man's glory (the woman) before the throne of the king. Man doesn't have to cover, because he is the glory of Christ. This is outlined in the whole first paragraph. It is a sign to the angels that she is in obedience to God's natural order and will not disgrace men by flaunting man's glory before God.

"A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."

This is the part where we get mixed up. We see the reference to nature. "Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering."

This isn't the same word used in the above scriptures either - which stated a verb (doing something), but it is peribolaiou, which is also a covering, "that which is thrown around" a "veil" BUT this is nothing other than showing an example that is independent in nature, but isn't the tradition of the church, where people were actually expected to do something that Paul stated they were being contentious about.

Best way to understand it, would you get mad because you had to grow your hair out every Sunday (or in your case Saturday) for church?

It also cannot be cultural, because it was regarded "As a sign to the angels," which eliminates the possibility of it being cultural or for a time.

Hope that makes sense.