Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

I find that very unusual.
Even outdoing the Disciples who were face to face with Jesus "daily" learning about Him for 3 years, before they committed and were Saved.

Opposed to what?

Was only talking about you specific.

What would that be?

You have eliminated Jesus as where you place your Trust ?

And you wonder How to know if you Truly have the Holy Spirit?

That is what you place your trust on...reason?

Curious, "whose theology" ?

God Bless,
Taken

I'm sorry to say Taken that I find it very difficult to speak to you.
So, I'll say only this:

Your idea about hearing, believing, but we're still not saved, it takes another step toward Jesus...

1. HOW were persons saved in the Old Testament BEFORE Jesus was incarnated? At what point was Abraham saved?

2. You still haven't said upon what you base your faith.
You believe in Jesus. Great.
How do you know the resurrection is true?
How could you believe such an unnatural idea?

Did you study some theology? Is our faith reasonable or not.
If someone asked you for something solid upon which to base your faith, maybe thinking they could join you, what would you say? That you just decided to believe Jesus? That is not a reasonable reply.

P.S. You come off as being very sarcastic.
I find this difficult to deal with.

 

[Taken]

I'm sorry to say Taken that I find it very difficult to speak to you. So, I'll say only this: Your idea about hearing, believing, but we're still not saved, it takes another step toward Jesus... 1. HOW were persons saved in the Old Testament BEFORE Jesus was incarnated? At what point was Abraham saved? 2. You still haven't said upon what you base your faith. You believe in Jesus. Great. How do you know the resurrection is true? How could you believe such an unnatural idea? Did you study some theology? Is our faith reasonable or not. If someone asked you for something solid upon which to base your faith, maybe thinking they could join you, what would you say? That you just decided to believe Jesus? That is not a reasonable reply. P.S. You come off as being very sarcastic. I find this difficult to deal with.

 

[Taken]

You're also teaching your kids not to trust anybody. I don't live there so I should mind my own business, but I always taught my kids very strong rules, but it did not include not trusting ANYBODY. Just a thought.

 

[Taken]

You're also teaching your kids not to trust anybody.

Presumption on your part.

I don't live there so I should mind my own business, but I always taught my kids very strong rules, but it did not include not trusting ANYBODY.

Just a thought.

Pss 11
It is better to TRUST in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Just a thought.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I'm sorry to say Taken that I find it very difficult to speak to you.
So, I'll say only this:

Your idea about hearing, believing, but we're still not saved, it takes another step toward Jesus...

It appears you do not listen.
I never said anything about "my idea".
I have said read, learn, TRUST, commit.

I have even referenced the Disciples themselves, as a lesson for you.

I have also written about LEARNING before one commits.

I have also written about the difference between thoughts of the MIND vs thoughts of the HEART.

IF one does not FIRST LEARN ABOUT something, (including God/Jesus), how can one earnestly COMMIT to what they know nothing about?

Scripture teaching to HEAR and LEARN, before committing to the Lord.
Scripture stresses FIVE points -

1) Hear, Trust to believe what you hear.
2) Keep following, hearing, learning.
3) Believe in your Heart
4) Elect God
5) Be SURE of your election, it's FOREVER

Our EXAMPLE -
Disciples hearing DAILY for 3 years.
Disciples MINDFULLY doubting.
Disciples KEEP following and hearing.
Disciples ELECT, confess to the Lord belief.
Disciples SURE, receive Saving

You reveal in one year was the first time you believed and became saved.
You do not mention your heart.
You do reveal it was by reasoning.
Reasoning is what the MIND does, not the Heart.

1. HOW were persons saved in the Old Testament BEFORE Jesus was incarnated?

Obedience to the Law.

At what point was Abraham saved?

In the day king Melchizedec, king of Salem, BLESSED him. Heb 7:27

2. You still haven't said upon what you base your faith.

Sure I have. You do not listen.
TRUST in the Word of God.
TRUST in the Word of God.

How do you know the resurrection is true?

TRUST in the Word of God.

How could you believe such an unnatural idea?

TRUST in the Word of God.

Did you study some theology?

I study what God has APPROVED.

Is our faith reasonable or not.

"Our" ?
Can't speak for you.
MY FAITH, is a Gift from God.

If someone asked you for something solid upon which to base your faith,

Nonsensical.

maybe thinking they could join you, what would you say?

Trust to heartfully Believe the Word of God.

That you just decided to believe Jesus?

That is not a reasonable reply.

Agree, your question and answer, is not reasonable, regarding spiritual things.

P.S. You come off as being very sarcastic.
I find this difficult to deal with.

You come off as presumptive and without understanding. I find this common.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

the devil is fill of trickery isnt he, tahts who so many follow after him and why we dont chase after miracles.

You completely dodged the question, so I'll ask it again:
You believe that Judas, who had NO truth (Jesus) in Him cast out demons by his OWN power??
You believe that LOST people can cast out demons and heal the sick in Christ's name??

 

[bbyrd009]

Well.......for crying out loud......another post of you I agree with.
(Of course it does not mean I''m going to be a Roman Catholic)

;-)

k well don't miss where he is dodging the defense there, himself, ok.
Scripture must be assumed to be lying, and deceiving us, in that interpretation

 

[Taken]

You completely dodged the question, so I'll ask it again:
You believe that Judas, who had NO truth (Jesus) in Him cast out demons by his OWN power??
You believe that LOST people can cast out demons and heal the sick in Christ's name??

You set a premise, which Scripture did not.

You say, Judas who had NO truth (Jesus) in him...

But Scripture says, Jesus gave them Power.

Your presumption is Jesus can not give Power to a man, except it be the Indwelling Holy Spirit, when Scripture does not say that.

You set a premise, of LOST people, when Scripture teaches God determines WHO He gives Power to.

Scripture further teaches, men are born separated from God; and learn primarily by hearing.

Men can believe what they hear and learn, or at any time (Before being Saved) reject what they hear and learn.

Judas along with the other 11 Disciples were all hearing, learning.....believing, doubting, wondering, believing....and sent out 2 by 2, with the Power of the Lord to heal the sick.
(NONE were Saved, at this point)

That is the extent of the knowledge given. That is the extent of the knowledge every Disciple had.
IF you read no more, that would be the extent of the Truth given.

However more knowledge, AFTER, they were sent out, more things transpired. One thing being, Judas, the Treasurer, had an idea of how to spend money out of the Treasury, and approached Jesus with his idea. Jesus rejected Judas' idea, YET Judas thought what was his idea TRUMPED what Jesus said.

Long before this incident, Jesus (knowing all things) already KNEW what would transpire, and WHAT Judas would do next.

Stressing the POINT - Jesus KNEW, Judas' did not KNOW.

What Judas did next, was WALK AWAY FROM JESUS, because Judas REJECTED what Jesus said.

NOW is when Judas and everyone else can KNOW, what Jesus has foreknown.

NOW is revealed Judas' rejection of the Word of God.

If you stay in perspective of the chain of events... you would find ~

Judas was believing, following, learning from Jesus, just like the other 11 Disciples, WHEN they were all given Power to go out 2 by 2 and heal the sick.

Judas thereafter FELL FROM FAITH.
BEFORE he was SAVED, and NOT KEPT IN FAITH, by the INDWELLING Power of the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

testing

@"ByGrace"

BG, Did you get it yet?

Highlight what you want to strike out.
Go to the tool bar up on top.
Go to the +
click on it
choose Strike Through
What you highlighted will automatically get stricken.

Wonderful...nice and clear....I hope I can get it from that...I am going to 'keep your post' in a file. Thanks xx

 

[Helen]

I hope I am getting this now.
Thanks to all who have helped.


that seemed so much easier than what I have been trying to do LOL
Yay!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

You set a premise, which Scripture did not.

You say, Judas who had NO truth (Jesus) in him...

But Scripture says, Jesus gave them Power.

Your presumption is Jesus can not give Power to a man, except it be the Indwelling Holy Spirit, when Scripture does not say that.

You set a premise, of LOST people, when Scripture teaches God determines WHO He gives Power to.

Scripture further teaches, men are born separated from God; and learn primarily by hearing.

Men can believe what they hear and learn, or at any time (Before being Saved) reject what they hear and learn.

Judas along with the other 11 Disciples were all hearing, learning.....believing, doubting, wondering, believing....and sent out 2 by 2, with the Power of the Lord to heal the sick.
(NONE were Saved, at this point)

That is the extent of the knowledge given. That is the extent of the knowledge every Disciple had.
IF you read no more, that would be the extent of the Truth given.

However more knowledge, AFTER, they were sent out, more things transpired. One thing being, Judas, the Treasurer, had an idea of how to spend money out of the Treasury, and approached Jesus with his idea. Jesus rejected Judas' idea, YET Judas thought what was his idea TRUMPED what Jesus said.

Long before this incident, Jesus (knowing all things) already KNEW what would transpire, and WHAT Judas would do next.

Stressing the POINT - Jesus KNEW, Judas' did not KNOW.

What Judas did next, was WALK AWAY FROM JESUS, because Judas REJECTED what Jesus said.

NOW is when Judas and everyone else can KNOW, what Jesus has foreknown.

NOW is revealed Judas' rejection of the Word of God.

If you stay in perspective of the chain of events... you would find ~

Judas was believing, following, learning from Jesus, just like the other 11 Disciples, WHEN they were all given Power to go out 2 by 2 and heal the sick.

Judas thereafter FELL FROM FAITH.
BEFORE he was SAVED, and NOT KEPT IN FAITH, by the INDWELLING Power of the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

Pay attention, sparky.
I never said that Judas had "no truth" in him. That was said by mjrhealth in post #305.

As to your final statement - that has been my point ALL along.
Judas HAD faith and fell away.

Thank you for agreeing with me that OSAS is a man made farce . . .

 

[Stranger]

You yourself said that Judas HAD to betray Jesus in order to fulfill scripture. That would be how I reconcile my idea.

Anyway, it's not my idea.

(6) John 17 contains the prayer uttered by the Lord en route to Gethsemane. The prayer falls into three sections: (a) a petition for himself (vv. 1-8), (b) prayer for his disciples (vv. 9-19), (c) prayer for the future church (vv. 20-26). We focus momentarily on the petition for his immediate disciples.

While the prayer obviously was on behalf of the eleven remaining apostles, reference is made nonetheless to the original twelve. It therefore is not correct to contend that the language of the Lord has no relevance to Judas; it certainly did.

Note these crucial points, beginning with verse six: (a) Christ “manifested” (aorist tense, relating to a past situation, i.e., his ministry period) himself unto the men God gave him “out of the world” (v. 6). They belonged to God and were given to the Son. That included Judas. (b) Jesus conveyed the words of God unto these men and they “received them” (v. 8a). (c) They “believed” the Son was sent from the Father (v. 8b).

Of the twelve, the Lord subsequently said: “While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction” (v. 12, ESV). Focus on the term “except” in the last phrase. It translates the Greek ei me. Baptist scholar A. T. Robertson stated that “this phrase marks an exception,” and he cites this passage (1919, 1188). In his commentary, Word Pictures in the New Testament, he says Judas was a “sad and terrible exception” (1932, 278). This constitutes positive proof that “the men” of verses six through eight embraced the full complement of the twelve. Jesus “lost” Judas. The traitor’s lostness resulted from his wrong choices, and he “fell away” (Acts 1:17, 25).

Source: Judas Iscariot: From Apostle to Apostate

Jesus didn't lose Judas. Judas was always the son of perdition. He didn't become the son of perdition. He was the son of perdition. When Jesus is talking about those whom the Father has given Him, He is talking about the 11. In (17:11) Jesus gives them to the Father to keep in His own name. Judas could not be one of them. Judas is not included as Jesus says 'none of them is lost, but the son of perdition'. He is lost in that he is lost of the twelve, not lost as being saved and then lost.

Concerning your logic as I understood it, Jesus would not send one who was not saved out to preach or cast out demons or heal, thus Jesus did not know Judas was the son of perdition at that time. But you believe the Father knew. Wouldn't your logic ask the same question of the Father that it asks of Jesus? How could the Father allow the son of perdition to go out and preach and cast out demons, etc.?

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

It appears you do not listen.
I never said anything about "my idea".
I have said read, learn, TRUST, commit.

I have even referenced the Disciples themselves, as a lesson for you.

I have also written about LEARNING before one commits.

I have also written about the difference between thoughts of the MIND vs thoughts of the HEART.

IF one does not FIRST LEARN ABOUT something, (including God/Jesus), how can one earnestly COMMIT to what they know nothing about?

Scripture teaching to HEAR and LEARN, before committing to the Lord.
Scripture stresses FIVE points -

1) Hear, Trust to believe what you hear.
2) Keep following, hearing, learning.
3) Believe in your Heart
4) Elect God
5) Be SURE of your election, it's FOREVER

Our EXAMPLE -
Disciples hearing DAILY for 3 years.
Disciples MINDFULLY doubting.
Disciples KEEP following and hearing.
Disciples ELECT, confess to the Lord belief.
Disciples SURE, receive Saving

You reveal in one year was the first time you believed and became saved.
You do not mention your heart.
You do reveal it was by reasoning.
Reasoning is what the MIND does, not the Heart.



Obedience to the Law.



In the day king Melchizedec, king of Salem, BLESSED him. Heb 7:27



Sure I have. You do not listen.
TRUST in the Word of God.
TRUST in the Word of God.



TRUST in the Word of God.



TRUST in the Word of God.



I study what God has APPROVED.



"Our" ?
Can't speak for you.
MY FAITH, is a Gift from God.



Nonsensical.



Trust to heartfully Believe the Word of God.





Agree, your question and answer, is not reasonable, regarding spiritual things.



You come off as presumptive and without understanding. I find this common.

God Bless,
Taken

What makes you think I need to listen to YOU?
See. I can't speak to you so let's just stop right here.
I'll bet you're younger than the years I've been a Christian.

And YES, it IS your idea. All this procedure one has to go through to become a believer Christian.

Peter became saved when Jesus said to him:
"Follow Me, and I'll make you a fisher of men".
The moment Peter started to follow Jesus, he became saved.

If you think I speak nonsense, you should immediately stop speaking to me. As I also will do with you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus didn't lose Judas. Judas was always the son of perdition. He didn't become the son of perdition. He was the son of perdition. When Jesus is talking about those whom the Father has given Him, He is talking about the 11. In (17:11) Jesus gives them to the Father to keep in His own name. Judas could not be one of them. Judas is not included as Jesus says 'none of them is lost, but the son of perdition'. He is lost in that he is lost of the twelve, not lost as being saved and then lost.

Concerning your logic as I understood it, Jesus would not send one who was not saved out to preach or cast out demons or heal, thus Jesus did not know Judas was the son of perdition at that time. But you believe the Father knew. Wouldn't your logic ask the same question of the Father that it asks of Jesus? How could the Father allow the son of perdition to go out and preach and cast out demons, etc.?

Stranger

This is incorrect.
God does not and has never created one single person just to condemn Him.

1 Tim. 2:4 tells us explicitly that God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.
Luke 22:3 tells us WHEN the devil entered into Judas.

Your position is unscriptural.

 

[Taken]

What makes you think I need to listen to YOU?

YOU don't.
I say to hear and listen to the Word of God and Trust to believe in your heart what you hear.

If that is offensive to you, so be it.

You made it clear, you have learned all you need to know.

See. I can't speak to you so let's just stop right here.

I actually stopped talking to you, awhile ago.
I don't speak for your benefit, but rather for those standing by, who are interested in what the Word of God SAYS!

I'll bet you're younger than the years I've been a Christian.

I would say, betting on what you don't know is a poor choice.

And YES, it IS your idea. All this procedure one has to go through to become a believer Christian.

It is obvious, the learning, before committing,
Is taught in Scripture, but hey, if you want to erroneously think it my idea, that's you.
But for others standing by; "it's a Biblical Concept to know about what you are committing to".

Peter became saved when Jesus said to him:
"Follow Me, and I'll make you a fisher of men".
The moment Peter started to follow Jesus, he became saved.

Thanks for sharing another one of your unBiblical teachings.

For those standing by:

Matt 4:18
Matt 4:19
And He (Jesus) saith to them (Peter & Andrew),
Follow me, and I will MAKE YOU fishers of men.

(Well we all (well not all), but some of us know, that was the first time Peter laid eyes on Jesus, and knew nothing of Jesus. So, no, Peter was not saved that day.

Peter followed Jesus, and continued following Jesus, and listening to Jesus, and learning from Jesus....

Um...for nearly 3 years daily.

It was AFTER Jesus bodily left the earth, the Disciples were all together (with some other followers) and together, they all became....
FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:4
And they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Spirit

If you think I speak nonsense, you should immediately stop speaking to me.

Do not be offended by my responses to your posts. They are for others standing by, to see where your teaching is not Biblical, so they may go and look up Scripture and verify what is the Truth.

As I also will do with you.

No problem if you do not address me.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Stranger]

This is incorrect.
God does not and has never created one single person just to condemn Him.

1 Tim. 2:4 tells us explicitly that God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.
Luke 22:3 tells us WHEN the devil entered into Judas.

Your position is unscriptural.

God can do whatever He wants with His creation. He always does righteously...what is right.

Big deal. (Luke 22:3) tells us when the devil entered Judas. So what? Judas was a devil before that. (John 6:70)

You 'disagree' with my position, but, it is not unscriptural.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

You are causing people to doubt their salvation with your mumbo jumbo.....

People who love God and are following Him continuously will not doubt their salvation. Doubts occur because a person has been quenching the Holy Spirit and/or not eating the flesh of Jesus as they should. Without those things, no matter how high they have been, they are walking down toward the death from which they came out. While a person has time he can yo yo up and down between following God and following his own ways. The problem with doing is that usually people do not know how much time they have left.

 

[amadeus]

Amen to that.
Paul didn't waste his time exhorting us to be good people just so we could prove it to other people.
People aren't sending us to heaven or hell (whatever that is)
GOD IS. And based on US.

Indeed, we are all stewards given things to care for and use. Our results are what He looks at which is according to what is in our hearts at the end of the road.

Stewards do not inherit. Somewhere before inheriting a person must be elevated from steward to heir. If a person is not regularly overcoming the things that need to be overcome, he will never become an heir and he will never inherit.

 

[Taken]

ONCE saved.

Obviously lends to the Understanding, Saving is something that OCCURS.

The OCCURRENCE lends to the Understanding,
One is NOT Saved, and then BECOMES Saved.

ONCE Saved, obviously lends to the Understanding, SAVING OCCURRED.

Heb 10:9
That IF thou shalt CONFESS with thy MOUTH the Lord Jesus
And
BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God raised him from the dead, thou
SHALT BE SAVED.

A straight forward ONE TIME occurrence.
No confusing language.
No caveat of one becoming Unsaved.
No requirement to repeat.

Yes, ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED.

Trust the TRUTH.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

You're right.
From wikipedia...:
In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the deep abyss that is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering for the wicked and as the prison for the Titans. Tartarus is the place where, according to Plato's Gorgias (c. 400 BC), souls are judged after death and where the wicked received divine punishment. Like other primal entities ...

The Jews spoke Greek. They know about the myths and incorporated the ideas. I do wish Jesus had been more specific. The idea of fire, for me, is not acceptable.

If we are believers or sheep and we are now hearing his voice, why did he need to be more specific?

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27