One of the biggest mistakes. -John 1:1

[Emma Kim]

@mjrhealth
Yes although the bible is written through the prophets, however it's the book that is inspired by God - which means the author of the Bible is not the prophets or men, but actually God.
2 Pe 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

We can see clearly that through this verse, the Bible is not written by men, men and prophets are the ones who record, but they are the ones who are guided by the Spirits and God.
Do you know that even the prophets who wrote the contents of this words, they themselves do not understand the meaning of what they had written?
Dan 12:8
I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

Daniel record about the prophecy of the end time 600 years before the time of Jesus FC - about the beast coming out from the sea, but this beast that comes out from the sea is also recorded in the book of Revelation which is written in AD 95.
If this Word is written by men, how can 2 different people that exist in 2 different eras are able to speak about the same content?
And Jesus also said, that we should not only believe in him, but we should also obey his teaching and his words

Jn 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Jn 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Isn't this the words of Jesus too?

Thank you for replying - this is a very interesting discussion

 

[mjrhealth]

And do you accept "His" words or will you follow your own heart. Are you going to pursue after Him and His truth. or become like all these grains of sand, bickering and fighting over the bible, because they read it and think because they did that they are right, is Christ divided, is God teh author of confusion. What is Jesus to you, a book, teh dead letter., or as He is the living word. It is your choice, you must choose. I stand at the door and Knock, will you let Him in. or will you refuse teh invitation like so many trying to save themselves. is He not your Husband, how much do you love Him what is He worth to you..

 

[Getitright]

Yes He did. Father, Son and Holy Spirit make up the living God of the Bible.

Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

"Name" is singular. Even the JW's got it right!

The Scriptures explicitly make a distinction between who was raised and who did the raising. Name may be singular but that has nothing to do with who raised Christ from the dead.

 

[Getitright]

first, Thanks for the reply, second, Jehovah is not God personal name... so your reply is nothing. because the flesh profit ... "NOTHING", it is his OWN Spirit that is the TRUE God who is HIM shared in flesh, as the ordinal Last.... lol. so that statement in John 17 is reproved. you have no clues as i have said who the the Father is HIS .... own "Spirit" ... lol. oh well ever learning and yet ... "NOT ABLE TO COME TO THE TRUTH".

the same old deception is still in your mind, place there by the deciever. this is what years of false teaching will do? listen up the arm of God is GOD himself "shared" in Flesh, he is an ARMY of ONE.

Let us educate you. listen. when Sennacherib, king of Assyria invaded Judah and Jerusalem, king Hezekiah had a talk with the LORD JESUS, listen to the record. 2 Chronicles 32:6 "And he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake comfortably to them, saying,"
2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:"
2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah."
you have no Idea what anthropomorphism is do you, it's not a "figure of speech"... lol, no, anthropomorphism is the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions, here it means in Power, (the "authority” and the “ability”, or “might”, to do something).

did you understand that... "an ARM of flesh" is God's OWN POWER "MANIFESTED" in flesh... (smile). this was the king "POWER" in fighting men. the Lord Jesus God, himself shared in flesh is his own ARM of POWER in flesh... an ARM of Flesh, (an ARMY of ONE). for God came in the Flesh... 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." .... (smile), ... LOL. see what flase doctrine will do for YOU, get you reprove every time.

Getitright, please get it right A. God personal Name is not Jehovah. and B. God's "OWN" ... ARM is he himself shared in flesh. so again you're reprovre again, and again. how many time must we reprove YOU. the Holy Ghost said, Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"
and i have went well beyond this. so like others, go back and learn then try again. telling and showing you scriptures over and over about the same thing, no more. ... "Reject".

and if you think Isaiah 53 which is a figure of speech referring to Christ doing God's work. you're truly lost, for verse one of chapter 53 reprove you.

so if you want to know and understand, I reference you to any post i have made, for if you reject the Lord Jesus work as a figure of speech then you're triple lost. John 5:17 "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." so you're reprove three time in one post. so good day to you.

PICJAG.

I thought you were being obstinate, however, it appears you truly don't understand. You said,

"you have no Idea what anthropomorphism is do you, it's not a "figure of speech"... lol, no, anthropomorphism is the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions, here it means in Power, (the "authority” and the “ability”, or “might”, to do something)."

That is what a figure of speech is.

"Some additional key details about anthropomorphism:

• A character is anthropomorphic if they are not human but behave like a human.
• Anthropomorphism can occur in many kinds of stories, but it is especially common in folktales, fantasy, and children's stories.
• Anthropomorphism is related to, but distinct from personification, in which things are described figuratively (rather than literally) as having human characteristics."

Anthropomorphism - Definition and Examples | LitCharts

Also, it seems you're reading things into my posts that aren't there. I didn't say anything about Jehovah being God's personal name. It seems you're using that as a red herring (logical fallacy) to distract from what I said. The passage shows that there is a Jehovah on the earth and one in Heaven. That means there are two Jehovahs, not one. So, once again, your claim is shown wrong from Scripture.

I've shown repeatedly, from different passages of Scripture that your position is untenable. Yet, you continue to argue for it. This suggests to me that you're not really interesting in coming to the truth of Scripture. Moses recorded two Jehovahs, Paul said to the Corinthian Christians, 'to us there is one God, the Father', and Jesus excluded Himself when He said that the Father was the only true God. All three of these statement make a clear distinction between God and Jesus, thus they cannot be the same being. Jesus told us that He came out of God. Paul tells us that there is one who has immortality, who has not and cannot be seen. This cannot be Jesus because He has been seen. So, once again we have a distinction between the two. These are all clear, easily understood passages of Scripture. They are not ambiguous.

On the other hand, you're trying to string together different passages of Scripture to form a narrative. It's a narrative that is clearly refuted by Scripture. In addition you've ignored the numerous fallacies that I've pointed out in your arguments.

 

[101G]

The Father "created all things".

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
It was by the Father's will that all things were created, and the Son obeyed and honoured His Father's will:

Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

First thanks for the reply, second, we still cannot accept that assessment you made and here's why.

#1.You said, the Father "created" all things. "Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created".
our answer to that is. a. when did the Father recieve power? Read Rev 4:11 again. for is not the Father the almighty, if the Father recieve Power, please post book chapter and verse of the person who gave the Father POWER. and b. Rev 4:11 states that it was the "Lord" that created all things, is not Jesus the Lord? lets check the record. John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." this is the Lord Jesus speaking. so are you saying that it was JESUS who "created" all things? I hope so if not the bible don't agree with you.

#2. then you said, "It was by the Father's will that all things were created, and the Son obeyed and honoured His Father's will".
another ERROR why we cannot agree with your assessment, and here's why. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" so if he, JESUS, was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF", see your problem now? there was NO ONE ELSE there in the beginng but him, "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF". so your statement don't hold water with the scriptures.

#3. then you said, "Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ". one scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." by, by, by, HIS "OWN" POWER he God, JESUS, CREATED all things. and that POWER is in his ... "OWN" ARM, supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." THERE'S THAT "ARM" OF HIS AGAIN. HIS OWN "POWER" NOW IN FLESH, AN "ARM" OF FLESH, as king Hezekiah said of Sennacherib, the king of Assyria, his ARMY, a "ARM" of Flesh.... man oh man this is just too easy.

#4. and this one. "Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds". is not it the SAME God who spoke to the father in visions, and used similitudes? (see Hosea 12:10). so, is it not now the same God as "SON" speaking to the sons of the fathers as the "Son?" ... (smile). now the same God who spoke to the fathers in visions, and similitudes, is now againg speaking to the sons of the fathers in flesh FACE to FACE, as the Son of God. so that it will be no doubt as to who is speaking to them/us directly. Jesus the ordinal First is "Spirit", so the way he could talk/speak to people/the fathers was by the use of visions, and similitudes. but NOW he has come in PERSON and have talked to us NOW face to face. supportive scripture, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" BINGO, that's John 1:1 beginning. and we got that gospel today, so he GOD, JESUS, is speaking to us today.... (smile). aint that GREAT. see ReChoired, the Lord Jesus God al mighty is talking to you right now in his gospel, by his apostles, prophets, and teachers... notice I said, "HIS"...

You do not know the first thing about Godhead:

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Eph_1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
and many others.

since I have answered all theses before, lets just used this one. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".
did you understand what the Lord Jesus just said? he said that he would "SEND" the Comforter... For all those who want to know about send and come, listen up. here in John 15:26 Jesus said that he would "SEND" the Comforter ... right... right. ok, good, now this, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

WHO IS SENDING THE"COMFORTER?", is it a. the Lord Jesus, the Son or b. the LORD, the Father? my, my, my if one canot see that now, then one is totally blind.

but I'll be waiting for your answer. now if you're not sure about what I'm saying go back over this post... ok, before you answer.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Yes although the bible is written through the prophets, however it's the book that is inspired by God - which means the author of the Bible is not the prophets or men, but actually God.

First thanks in the reply, which you're 100% correct, and second, welcome to the Forum.

I hope you have a wonderful time here.

PICJAG.

 

[ReChoired]

First thanks for the reply

You are welcome. Just as some advice, if I may? You do not have to enlarge the font for me to read your response, or to understand a highlighted portion. However, if you want to continue in your method anyway, I will make no further mention of it. It is a little distracting though. I only ask that you keep that in mind.

, second, we still cannot accept that assessment you made and here's why.

I am glad you have a reason, but first, Question. Who is "we" specifically that you mention in your replies. Can you detail that for me please?

#1.You said, the Father "created" all things. "Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created".

That is what Revelation 4:11, in it's context states. It's right there, "O Lord" and "thou hast created all things". As Revelation 4 continues right into chapter 5, it is the Father that is sitting upon the Throne, and the Lamb (the Son/Jesus) shows up, after having ascended from Olivet (Psalms 24, Acts 1 &c).

Notice:

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. [See Acts 2, the Holy Ghost came down, being sent by the Father and Son, as the Son said. - John 15:26; Luke 11:13, &c]
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.​

The Father is on the Throne, and "liveth for ever and ever", never having died. It is the Son, the Lamb that was slain, that died and rose again, to come back to the Father from which He had left before, to take the book (scroll) from the Hand of His Father. Jesus is not even mentioned in Revelation 4 (at all), and is not seen therein. It is only after the ascension (Psalms 24) that Jesus as the Lamb shows up with all the angels that had came back with him from Acts 1.

our answer

Question. Who is "our"? Please be specific in listing who is with you (individual).

 

[ReChoired]

to that is. a. when did the Father recieve power? Read Rev 4:11 again.

It told you in the verse itself, that God the Father (the Lord - aka JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days) was worthy to receive "glory and honour and power" (vs 11). So what do you mean, "when"?

Consider, that it is God that giveth all breath, life and power:

Act_17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;​

God receives back from us, that which He gave to us in stewardship. Just as the Son will also do:

Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.​

Jesus will return back that which was given to Him of His Father, and that includes that specific "power" (Matthew 28:18).

So likewise, God hath given to men authority/power, and they too will return it to Him that gave it.

Dan_2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Deu_8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Psa_68:35 O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.

Dan_2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

Job_1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.​

God has given us Power to do things, and that power is to be used for the service of God, and thus returned unto him.

Psa_62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Mat_6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
​

It's like when Pharaoh gave "power" to Joseph. He recognized that though he had that power, it was merely to be in service for God and Pharaoh, notice:

Gen_41:40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.​

Just as the Father and the Son.

Notice:

Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.​

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,​

Rev_11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.​

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.​

They are all recognizing where their life, power, etc come from, and so return it back unto Him in His service, and acknowledge Him as the one who gave it to them, and is from Him and is truly His, and any authority/power which they have, physical, mental or spiritual is from Him, and thus they are to always acknowledge that by returning it unto Him in service, under His authority and infinite rule.

for is not the Father the almighty, if the Father recieve Power, please post book chapter and verse of the person who gave the Father POWER.

I just did. Please read it carefully. There is a lot more.

 

[ReChoired]

and b. Rev 4:11 states that it was the "Lord" that created all things, is not Jesus the Lord? lets check the record. John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." this is the Lord Jesus speaking. so are you saying that it was JESUS who "created" all things? I hope so if not the bible don't agree with you.

Jesus is indeed "Lord",

Act_2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.​

but so too the Father, another "Lord".

2Co_6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Luk_10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk_1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:​

They are both called JEHOVAH (Exo_23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.). The Father is JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days, and the Son is JEHOVAH the Son Of Man/Lamb:

Dan_7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan_7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. [just like in Revelation 5; Psalms 24; Acts 1, though this is the moving from Holy to Most Holy Place, Revelation 1 & 4 vs Revelation 3]

Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.​

 

[ReChoired]

#2. then you said, "It was by the Father's will that all things were created, and the Son obeyed and honoured His Father's will".

True. I gave the verses. Here are more:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.​

 

[ReChoired]

another ERROR why we cannot agree with your assessment,

Who is "we"?

and here's why. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

All true. Nothing in contradiction to what I said, or provided in scripture. The contradiction is in the mindset of oneness type theology. Please allow me to share.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.​

Two LORD (JEHOVAH) in that verse. JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days, and JEHOVAH the Lamb.

Notice what is being spoken of in contrast. It is not JEHOVAH (Father) against JEHOVAH (Son), but rather family JEHOVAH (Father and Son) against all the false gods/idols, which are nothing.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

Isa 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

Isa 44:17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;​

In other words, the Father received counsel from no one (not even the Son). The Father did not ask any for how to do this or that. He was the one who commanded the Son, and the Son obeyed. The true God is contrasting Himself to all those things which men and fallen angels have set up in opposition to God, which are idols and false gods, which are not really God. Thus God (the Father), said, "alone", "myself". Even in the context of Godhead, wherein JEHOVAH the Father, Jesus JEHOVAH and the Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH are all working in perfect unity as a 'chord', a trio, in opposition to all the broken false gods (devils, men) that war with one another and are never really unified.

Isaiah 44 is not in contradiction to John 1:1-3, or 1 John 1:1-3 at all, or any other text, in which we see the Father working with the Son. Isaiah 44 is contrasting that which is by nature God/Deity to that which is not.

Isaiah 44 is read in multiple ways, from the perspective of the Father (which speaks of Israel, which true Israel is Jesus), from the perspective of the Son (speaking to Israel the peoples) and even of the Holy Ghost.

so if he, JESUS, was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF", see your problem now?

No, there is no problem. Consider the context, and what is being contrasted. It is not a contrast of Father to Son, but of Deity to non-deity. Eternal to that which is temporary/vanity/nothing.

When the Father commanded He asked for advice from no one. When the Son made all things by command of the Father, none was there to help him carry it out.

there was NO ONE ELSE there in the beginng but him, "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF". so your statement don't hold water with the scriptures.

You need to read in context, and not isolated from all the other texts which surround it, and the other texts which relate to it, such as Genesis 1, John 1, Hebrews 1; Proverbs 8, etc.

 

[ReChoired]

#3. then you said, "Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ". one scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." by, by, by, HIS "OWN" POWER he God, JESUS, CREATED all things. and that POWER is in his ... "OWN" ARM, supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." THERE'S THAT "ARM" OF HIS AGAIN. HIS OWN "POWER" NOW IN FLESH, AN "ARM" OF FLESH, as king Hezekiah said of Sennacherib, the king of Assyria, his ARMY, a "ARM" of Flesh.... man oh man this is just too easy.

You do realize that the King and His "ARMy" are two things, and that the ARMy is to obey the Head/King and not do according to their own will? Jesus is indeed the "ARM" of the LORD (the Father), for it is Jesus which carries out the will of the Father. Father and Son are not the same Person/Being, but Two distinct Persons/Beings. Jesus is not an actual "arm" like I have on my body, but the language is used as metaphor or simile. In other words, Jesus acts as the ARM, or the one which carries out in deed, the will/mind/heart of the Father, as an ARMy does to their King to whom they are allied.

Indeed, Christ Jesus is the "power" of the Father and the "wisdom" also. The connection is in the context, for the Jews sought miracles/power from God as a sign, and the Greeks sought after Wisdom. Paul is saying by inspiration of the Third Person of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost, that Jesus is the response to both desires. He (Jesus) is the miracle/power of the Father sent down which the Jews sought after, and Jesus is the wisdom of the Father which the Greeks sought after. Jesus is not the Father (Ancient of Days). The Father is not the Son. The Father was not sent by anyone, neither died. It was the Son which was sent by the Father and Holy Ghost, and it was he who died and rose again.

Jesus indeed created all things, by honouring His Father's commandments to create.

God said ... (Father speaking)
God made (Son building on behalf of the Father's will)
God saw (Holy Ghost witnessing the events)

Genesis 1. Thus even in Genesis 1 is elohiym, which is true plural, three or more, and is not in dual Hebrew plural form. Let "us", "our", "we".

 

[ReChoired]

#4. and this one. "Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds". is not it the SAME God who spoke to the father in visions, and used similitudes? (see Hosea 12:10). so, is it not now the same God as "SON" speaking to the sons of the fathers as the "Son?" ... (smile).

What??? Hosea 12:10 has nothing to do with the immediate context of Hebrews 1:2. Hosea 12:10 is simply saying that God spoke through (by the Person/Being of the Holy Ghost; 2 Peter 2:21; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 Samuel 16:13; Matthew 22:43; Mark 12:36) men (prophets, etc).

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;​

The Father now speaks to us through His Son. The Father is not the Son. The Father is His own Person/Being even as the Son is His own Person/Being. The text does not say that the Father speaks to the sons "as" Son. It says that the Father speaks to the children by His Son.

You have to alter "by" to "as" to obtain your oneness theology. Beware. I warn you in love. Be not as Eve which added and subtracted to the word of God. A most serious and dire warning is given in Revelation to those who do that.

now the same God who spoke to the fathers in visions, and similitudes, is now againg speaking to the sons of the fathers in flesh FACE to FACE, as the Son of God.

No. You added the word "as" and removed the word "by". The President of the United States may speak to a king of another country, not in person, but by an ambassador, which represents him. The Father sent the Son, to speak the Father' words and do the Father's works, as the Highest Messenger or Ambassador of the Father.

Jesus is the Apostle of the Father, Hebrews 3:1. As we are to follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes, the Son followeth the Father. We are not Jesus, though we are intimately connected to Him. Jesus is not the Father, even though He is intimately connected to His Father.

Joh_17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh_17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:​

This "one" is like as marriage. Multiple Persons/Beings united in such a way as to be working together as a single harmony of chord (man , woman and God).

so that it will be no doubt as to who is speaking to them/us directly.

The Father now speak to humanity in Christ Jesus. See the Baptism of Jesus. See the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus is the Head of Mankind.

Jesus the ordinal First is "Spirit"

Sigh. You misunderstand the word "Spirit". The Father is a Spirit. Jesus is a Spirit. The Holy Ghost is a Spirit. Angels are also spirits. Mankind are spirits.

Mat_3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:​

Three Persons/Beings there.

so the way he could talk/speak to people/the fathers was by the use of visions, and similitudes. but NOW he has come in PERSON

Don't know if you know this, but the Son was seen upon the earth numerous times, before the 'incarnation'. Genesis 3 in the Garden. Genesis 11 at the tower of Babel. Genesis 17-19 with Abraham. Exodus 19 with Moses. Joshua 5 with Joshua. With Samson's parents and with Daniel and Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, with Joshua the High Priest in Zechariah, &c.

The Son was always and eternally a Person/Being, individual from the Person/Being of the Father.

Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.​

 

[ReChoired]

and have talked to us NOW face to face.

The Son was with Jacob and talked with Moses "face to face".

Gen_32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exo_3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Exo_33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
​

That is why in Genesis 17-19 we see this:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;​

Three Persons/Beings therein.

The LORD (Jesus JEHOVAH), the Son who is standing on the earth (Genesis 17-19), calls fire (symbol of the Eternal Holy Ghost, God is a consuming Fire of Love) down from His Father, the LORD (JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days) which is in Heaven.

Again:

Hosea 1:4 KJB - And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

Hosea 1:5 KJB - And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.

Hosea 1:6 KJB - And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Hosea 1:7 KJB - But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
Two LORD's. One Person/Being, LORD (JEHOVAH) is saving His people by another LORD (JEHOVAH). The Father saved the people by Jesus (His Son).

Notice the Two "Lords" in the same verse:

2 Timothy 1:18 KJB - The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.​

The Son and the Father.

Like Genesis 19:24, we have in Zechariah another mention of all Three:

Zechariah 3:2 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?​

Three Persons/Beings. The one Person/Being "LORD" (Jesus JEHOVAH, the Son) calls upon the Person/Being of the Father, "LORD" to rebuke satan, and the Holy Ghost who chose Jerusalem, "LORD".

Again it is seen:

Colossians 2:2 KJB - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 2:3 KJB - In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.​

Holy Ghost, Father and Son.

This is everywhere:

Matthew 28:19 KJB - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

The eternal Heavenly Trio.

 

[ReChoired]

supportive scripture, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" BINGO, that's John 1:1 beginning.

No. John is not the beginning of the gospel, but the beginning before all things. Mark is specific in his text, that he refers to the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The very text of Mark 1:1, shows that Jesus is the Son of the Father (God). They are not the same Being/Person. They are Two Persons/Beings.

I don't play "BINGO". It's gambling.

and we got that gospel today, so he GOD, JESUS, is speaking to us today.... (smile).

I agree that we have the Gospel today. I agree that "GOD, JESUS" (sic), speaks to us today by the Holy Ghost/Spirit (another Comforter, not Himself and differentiated from the Father).

Joh_14:16 And I will pray [ie. ask, petition] the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;​

Three Persons/Beings. The Son asks the Father for "another" Comforter, other than Himself, which is the Person/Being Holy Ghost/Spirit, who comes in the name of the Son as His Ambassador/Representative, even as the Son came as the Ambassador/Representative of the Father.

Notice that word "pray" (meaning to ask, petition another for something). Jesus is not asking self. Jesus is asking His Father.

aint that GREAT.

God is great.

see ReChoired, the Lord Jesus God al mighty

Jesus is indeed Lord Jesus God Almighty, but not the Person/Being of the Father, who is also Lord JEHOVAH God Almighty.

Jesus (as in manhood) stated that "all power" (omnipotence) was given unto Him by His Father.

is talking to you right now in his gospel, by his apostles, prophets, and teachers... notice I said, "HIS"...

It indeed is "HIS" (sic). It is also the Father's (Hebrews 1) and the Holy Ghost's (2 Timothy 3:16).

since I have answered all theses before, lets just used this one. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".
did you understand what the Lord Jesus just said?

Yes. It is quite plain in English. Jesus asks the Father (John 14:16) for another (not Himself, neither the Father).

he said that he would "SEND" the Comforter...

Yes. Just as the Father and Holy Ghost sent Jesus, so too does the Father and Son send the Another (Holy Ghost):

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.​

So too, when Jesus returned from His mission trip, He appeals to the Father to send His replacement, just as missionaries do today. When the missionary leaves the field, they send to the conference for another to replace themselves.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
​

Thus the Holy Ghost speaks not of Himself, but speaks of Jesus, the Person/Being who sent Him, whom Himself (Jesus), spake of the Father who sent Him (Jesus).

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

For all those who want to know about send and come, listen up. here in John 15:26 Jesus said that he would "SEND" the Comforter ... right... right

Yes. It is plain enough in English.

. ok, good, now this, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Yes. It is plain enough in English. Two Persons/Beings (Father and Son) are sending the third Person/Being (Holy Ghost). It is not hard at all. It is only when you conflate the Person/Being of the Father with the Person/Being of the Son that you get your error.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.​

Thus likewise in vs 26. The Holy Ghost speaks the words of Jesus, and comes in His name, being sent by the Persons/Beings of the Father and the Son.

Notice. The word which Jesus spake was not His own. It was His Father's words.

WHO IS SENDING THE"COMFORTER?", is it a. the Lord Jesus, the Son or b. the LORD, the Father?

It is not "either/or". It is clearly "both/and". You have an incorrect dichotomy. For instance, If I were to say, My Father and my Uncle send Me, and later I return and I agree with the Father to send the Uncle in my place, I am not the Father, neither the Uncle, and neither they two myself, and neither they two one another.

my, my, my if one canot see that now, then one is totally blind.

One of us is blind. That is for certain. I will not condemn you though.

but I'll be waiting for your answer. now if you're not sure about what I'm saying go back over this post... ok, before you answer.

PICJAG.

O, I understood just fine, having the Holy Ghost with me, who (on behalf of Jesus, speaking for the Father) leads me always into all truth.

 

[kcnalp]

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created.
Gen 1 God created the heavens and earth ...
Jesus is God the Creator!

 

[101G]

You are welcome. Just as some advice, if I may? You do not have to enlarge the font for me to read your response, or to understand a highlighted portion. However, if you want to continue in your method anyway, I will make no further mention of it. It is a little distracting though. I only ask that you keep that in mind.

first thanks for the reply, second, the large font, I don't mind not using them, if i see fit, but I'll try to be mindful of your request.

I am glad you have a reason, but first, Question. Who is "we" specifically that you mention in your replies. Can you detail that for me please?

who is the greater one inside us?

That is what Revelation 4:11, in it's context states. It's right there, "O Lord" and "thou hast created all things". As Revelation 4 continues right into chapter 5, it is the Father that is sitting upon the Throne, and the Lamb (the Son/Jesus) shows up, after having ascended from Olivet (Psalms 24, Acts 1 &c).

the Lord now in his Glorified states as the ordinal First did create all things, but as the ordinal Last in a natural State he did not create all thing for that's why he receive "Power". for he JESUS as the ordinal First is all Powerful. so Rev 4:11 clearly shows that. for here is where you made your deadly mistake. you said, "That is what Revelation 4:11, in it's context states. It's right there, "O Lord" and "thou hast created all things". As Revelation 4 continues right into chapter 5, it is the Father that is sitting upon the Throne, and the Lamb (the Son/Jesus) shows up, after having ascended from Olivet (Psalms 24, Acts 1 &c)". so if the "Father" is on the throne who gave the Father "power" if he already all powerful? as I asked before, book, chapter, and verse of the person Name who gave the Father who sits on the throne "power". listen,
Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

Now you in post #128 you tried to explain. you said, "Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth". are you saying that Jesus is the Father? because it is the Son the Ordinal last who sits on the throne as High Priest and mediator. but since you said it was the "Father" who sits on the throne, then as I asked who gave the Father... Power?"... well.

then you tried to say, "Jesus will return back that which was given to Him of His Father, and that includes that specific "power" (Matthew 28:18).
ok, lets see, you tried to explain again and fell into your own mis-giving, listen, "Rev_11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned".

well lets get educate, listen, Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

Now ReChoired, before we Go any futher, Is this the Same one Person. a. from him which is, and which was, and which is to come. b. the seven Spirits. and c. from Jesus Christ. so is this three separate persons or the same person.... your answer please.

Take note, you said the Father sits on the Throne, as in Revelation 4:11, and Revelation chapter 5, correct, now listen, Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned." the same Lord God almighty who sits on the throne, he is the "which art, and wast, and art to come" as in Revelation 1:4. (which art, and wast, and art to come) now this, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." the same one on the throne, and the Alpha and the Omega is the "First" and the "Last", Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.". the "First and the Last", is the Revelation 1:4. (which art, and wast, and art to come), the same one as the Revelation 11:17 "which art, and wast, and art to come"). this is the one who sits on the throne whom you calls the Father. now did not the "First" and the "Last" Die? lets see, Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." so when did the Father DIE?. for the one who sits on the Throne is the "which art, and wast, and art to come", or the "which is, and which was, and which is to come", (Rev 1:4), for the one as you states with scripture "receive POWER, and the one who receive power is the Alpha and Omega, who is the First and the Last, .... so when did the Father die? now ReChoired when did the Father die? we'll be looking for thar answer.

we suggest you read carefully what we just posted and see your ERROR as who sits on the throne... .

if you have any difficulties, lets discuss, because he who sits on the Throne is the same one who STAND before the Throne who is the LAMB ... (smile), not the Lamb of God, but the Lamb.... (smile).

so look over this post carefully, and read it carefully and follow the one who sits on the throne by his titles...

see you then when you have read all of this post.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

@ReChoired and all who may follow this topic. "The Book of Revelation". many a christian think, or believe that the Person who gave and received this Revelation is two separate person, (a. the Father, and b. the Son). Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"
Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"
Many think, or believe that this letter is from THREE separate and distinct Persons.

A. Him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come”. (person #1 the Father?)
B. Him, “the seven Spirits”. (person #2. the Holy Spirit?)
C. Him, “the faithful witness”, Jesus the Christ. (person #3. the Son?)

I know some will say I’m on a trail to disprove the trinity, NO, I’m NOT. for if there is a trinity, the scriptures will prove it out. and if there is no trinity, again the scriptures will prove that out also. let the scriptures fall where they may. John is giving us clear vetting process as to who the one person that sent this letter to the seven churches, via John. Remember this is a revelation of …. Jesus the Christ.

This one person hold all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, which are mention above. this changes the whole dynamic of the book, as to how we once believed, and the way we should read and understand this book. If the Lord Jesus holds all these three identifying Appellation, or Epithet then one will have to consider what they believe. but leaving that alone, Lets follow the Appellation, and the Epithet and see if this is the one same person.

#1. him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the Lord Jesus?.

Evidence #1. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. So the “which is, and which was, and which is to come” is A. the Almighty, B. the Alpha and the Omega, and C. the Lord.
some, not all, states Revelation 4:11, and Revelation chapter 5 shows the Father sits on the Throne.
well the following rejects the notion that the Father sits on the throne. Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned." the same Lord God almighty who sits on the throne, he is the "which art, and wast, and art to come" as in Revelation 1:4. now this, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." the same one on the throne, and the Alpha and the Omega is the "First" and the "Last", Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.". so, the "First and the Last", is the same one in Revelation 1:4. and (which art, and wast, and art to come), the same one as in Revelation 11:17 "which art, and wast, and art to come"). this is the one who sits on the throne whom some calls the Father. now did not the "First" and the "Last" Die, who is the the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.? lets see, Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
so if it is the Father who sits on the throne, then one must explain, "How the Father DIED?".

So clearly we see that him, “which art, and wast, and art to come“, it the Lord God Almighty. But is this JESUS? yes.

#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also?

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”. Remember John 17:5? lets refersh our memory. John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (glorify thou me with thine own self? what is the Father? .... "Spirit". he Jesus as the ordinal Last HAD the Spirit in the beginning, which means that before he was G2758 κενόω kenoo according he is that SAME self "Spirit" who is the ordinal First, Spirit, the Holy Spirit... ... BINGO).

now how do we know that this is the Holy Spirit the seven Spirits, Listen. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. who was SENT forth into all the EARTH? lets check the record, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." BINGO, “which are the seven Spirits of God ”, so it is the Lord JESUS, the LAMB, not the Lamb of God, but the Lamb who came, now resurrected and GLORIFIED in the "Spirit".. per John 17:5. for he stood, meaning resurrected.

the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." and who poured out "his" spirit? Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses." Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, (John 17:5), he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." he, he, he, has shed forth, or poured out "his" Spirit, so this is the Lord Jesus the Seven Spirits. and at the same time eliminates any so-called third person...

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty. BINGO, that confirm who is the Lord God Almighty is, JESUS.

And lastly, “the true witness”, that’s a no brainier, that's a give me. The Lord Jesus. so the one who sits on the throne is the Lord Jesus, if not, a. tell us when the Father died. and b. tell us who gave the Father Power, and him being the all powerful one.

The only person who is the central theme of this book is the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit, and God is a Spirit (John 4:24a), the Father, who is the Son. so no Modalism here, unless one calls the bible teaching it.... yea, I didn't think so. what's not here is three seperate and distinct persons. THIS IS NOT ME, BUT THE BIBLE.

so this should put an end to who sits on the throne in heaven. the ordinal Last, who is Glorified in the Spirit who was sent/came on the day of Pentecost. the "Another" Comforter.... there's that "Another" again.

He who sits on the throne is he who is sent into all the earth....... JESUS, the all mighty God, just as Isaiah 9:6 states, that "Son", is the Mighty God. Amen.

so we'll wait for ReChoired explanation, if he have one.

PICJAG.

 

[kcnalp]

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Amen Jesus, you will! You are God.

 

[101G]

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Amen Jesus, you will! You are God.

100% agree, one day many christians will know and understand that Jesus the Lord is the ordinal First, and the ordinal Last the Son, the Son of MAN. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

for it is the son of man who gather his, his, his, "ELECT".

PICJAG.